Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 92

Attempts to access admin accounts are logged?
It's interesting what you can find in leaked arbcom-l correspondence. I read here that, from what I understood, Risker said that all attemps to log into admin accounts are logged and that that information is accessible to developers. Is this accurate? Is it documented anywhere? —  Waterfox ~talk~ 17:58, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that making such information documented is a good idea, per WP:BEANS. Every single edit and action on Wikipedia is logged somewhere, though much of it is obscured for public view.  That is, every single time anyone attempts to log in to any account, it is recorded.  It's a simple thing to take such records and cull out the admin accounts.  -- Jayron  32  18:11, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, failed logins for admin accounts are logged and these logs are (like all logs) available to the developers. This might not be documented, but it isn't a secret. MrBlueSky (talk) 18:58, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That should be "available to the system administrators". Developers write software, the system administrators run/maintain the software and servers. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 20:16, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Just like they don't tell us exactly what information checkusers have access to. (At least not anywhere I have ever seen) Monty  845  19:04, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The MediaWiki software is open source, so there is nothing stopping you from figuring that out (well, except maybe lack of technical skills). MrBlueSky (talk) 21:16, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * And, do not misunderstand, the WP:OFFICE can do & see everything. This includes Jimbo. -DePiep (talk) 21:25, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Technically all attempts to access all accounts are probably logged, as with all attempts to do anything on Wikipedia. Prodego  talk  22:14, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Pre 2007
Is there any way of looking through all the previous villlage pumps' archives pre 2007 without looking at the hundred of archived versions once at a time? What I am curious about is the start of the MOTD project which was proposed here and then the project started up 30 March 2005 by a now blocked user. Simply south...... digging mountains for 5 years 15:18, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is. It would be possible to set it up back to August 2004, but it would take A LOT of manual work. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 06:45, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I feel a script coming on. I shall add it to my to-do list (alas a fairly long one). - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 14:20, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Unless I am missing the point... can you not just search (i.e. run a search query) them for relevant keywords till it finds what you need? --Errant (chat!) 14:26, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Afraid not. The project should appear somewhere here but these list archived versions of the page histories only, not physical archives so-to-speak. Simply south...... digging mountains for 5 years 15:43, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks like Special:Export can't export that many revisions for a local search. I'm with Jarry1250...it's trivial (if you've got a command-line and some scripting-fu) to pull all of them and grep for certain strings. Give me some strings (the user's name, for example). However, there are only what, 20ish VPT archives from prior to your given date, by this time one probably could have right-clicked along the list to open a pile of tabs, then browsersearch for a key term? DMacks (talk) 22:59, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Even better, it's trivial to recompile the "history" style archives into the more modern style. The only problem is deciding on a numbering system. I suppose we should recompile into the new style but with an /old/ in the name. The entire history of News, for example, I have extracted and put at http://toolserver.org/~jarry/news.txt (.txt, 1.3MB). - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 18:33, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Problems with API search
Just dropping by to check I'm not Doing Things Wrong(TM) before going to Bugzilla:
 * The prefix:X operator does not appear to work in API search. Compare:
 * GUI - lots of results
 * API - 0 results


 * The API documentation claims "sectiontitle - Adds a parsed snippet of the matching section title". In this search, shouldn't sectiontitle be "Zola Enterprises spam on Wikipedia" as opposed to the page title? Strangely, if I change srprop to sectionsnippet, which the API promises "a parsed snippet of the matching section", I get what I want (here I'd expect the actual contents of the section). The corresponding GUI search is.

Thanks in advance. MER-C 05:28, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Definitely right on that last one. Reported and fixed in 29746. Ill get back to you on that first issue. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 20:49, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Reducing repetition and redundancy with BibTeX style referencing
I thought I'd float this here first: the citation system could be improved on Wikipedia in one simple way - using the page numbering system from BibTeX.

From the BibTeX article, here is an example citation:

Note: the first argument on the first line is the equivalent of the name attribute in the ref element in MediaWiki's citation system.

Now, when you cite this book (hicks2001) in BibTeX, you can do it two ways:

The latter cites page 5 of hicks2001. The footnote and bibliography (etc.) is updated to note this. So if you are citing in Harvard style, it says "(Hicks, 2001, p.5)" while if you are using footnote style, it'd have a footnote that said "Hicks, 2001, p.5".

We could have something like this for MediaWiki.

On first use. Then on second use.

The first footnote would be the citation as it now is, then the second footnote would simply be a transclusion of the first footnote with ", p. 5" on the end. This could dramatically simplify citation of books and other offline sources. Obviously, there would have to be changes to the Cite module in MediaWiki and it'd have to be tested to ensure backwards compatibility, and the community would have to determine whether or not such an approach would be acceptable under the WP:REF guideline. Currently, one either ends up with repetition or one has to use the shortened footnotes style. Basically all this is doing is creating a technical way to have an improved version of the shortened footnotes style.

Alternatively, one could bundle the 'short version' into an attribute, like this:

On first use. Then on second use.

Obviously existing tools like ProveIt would need to be updated to support the new style. Any thoughts? —Tom Morris (talk) 12:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The BibTeX citation is very similar to the current use of citation templates. What you are adding is the ability to include the page number per tag. See  - Page number attribute for  tags (2008-02-23). ---—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 16:11, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The syntax is good, but I don't know about the proposed layout. The way it's usually done, all the page number citations go in one section and the expanded citations go in a General Sources section (e.g. Battle of Osan). That's a more appealing layout than putting all the footnotes into one section, I would think. —Designate (talk) 16:39, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, I didn't know about that bug. That's pretty much exactly what I'm proposing! —Tom Morris (talk) 18:06, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


 * As you can see, that request has been open for three years without a concrete example of where to put the page numbers. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 03:14, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I had a suggestion for this .. let me dig. Rich Farmbrough, 23:40, 6 July 2011 (UTC).


 * Chaco Culture National Historical Park is an example of pure shortened footnotes. Battle of Osan mixes long footnotes, shortened footnotes and explanatory notes. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 03:14, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Answer is an example of the use of Template:Harvnb (Harvard-style citations, no brackets) in conjunction with Template:Citation, which is in active use right now. harvnb does what you are also proposing. For example renders as Smith 2005 p.25 There is a link under Smith 2005 to the full citation. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 00:46, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Chaco Culture National Historical Park, like Answer, uses . There is an easier way: the template produces output which is identical to  in behaviour and appearance, but dispenses with the need for ; differing page numbers are given different ref numbers, but where a given author/year/page combination occurs more than once, they are automatically merged. See Reading Southern railway station which uses  to such an extent that although there are 59 inline references, the  tag doesn't occur at all. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:54, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Frequent 503 errors?
At least on the secure server today, I've been continually getting 503 errors "Service Temporarily Unavailable", saying:

The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) mod_fastcgi/2.4.6 PHP/5.2.4-2ubuntu5.12wm1 with Suhosin-Patch mod_ssl/2.2.8 OpenSSL/0.9.8g Server at secure.wikimedia.org Port 443

I haven't encountered this on the regular site (yet?), anyone know what's going on? I also have been having issues with Twinkle appearing (see above). / ƒETCH COMMS  /  20:47, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Known issue. likely related to: "19:15 logmsgbot: hashar: srv154 seems unreachable. dberror.log is spammed with "Error connecting to " sysadmin log. Not 100% sure if it is solved now... —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 20:59, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, not yet solved, but the right people are aware of it now. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 21:01, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * fwiw....it's failing on probably 3/4 of the page requests at the moment. I know people are looking at it RxS (talk) 21:47, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Also looks like the css file is failing at times (if it even uses a css)...RxS (talk) 21:56, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Should be fixed now with "depooling srv154, repooling srv178". —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 22:16, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It was fine earlier today but the 503 errors are occurring again now. / ƒETCH COMMS  /  03:40, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Image update problems
I'll just copy and paste this from helpdesk. They told me to ask here. I'm here to report a possible bug. When I upload a new version of an image at a different resolution, the image does not update, but it takes the new image's dimensions causing it to distort, stretch or squeeze. I've tried all possible options such as purging the cache, clearing my browser etc. If I rename the image, it updates to the newer version but that's the only way. It'd be ridiculous if I had to rename every image I upload. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, .. 'George Sorby •  Talk  •  Contribs''  .. 15:08, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Known problem: 28613.  — Edokter  ( talk ) — 15:49, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have had this problem in the past, usually ctrl-shift-r/f5 works for me. / ƒETCH COMMS  /  16:22, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It could be 28613, but usually it's just your browser cache like Fetchcomms said. See also how to bypass your browser cache. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 20:19, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Two RfCs for allowing bureaucrats to remove the admin bit
Two related Requests for Comment are now open to discuss giving bureaucrats the ability to remove administrator user permissions under specific circumstances. Requests for comment/Granting bureaucrats the technical ability to remove the admin flag proposes enabling the technical ability for bureaucrats to do this. Requests for comment/Bureaucrat removal of adminship policy proposes the specific policy conditions under which they would be allowed to use that ability. Please visit both RfCs to give your input. Thanks. --RL0919 (talk) 20:13, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Login error
After I logged on,it just displayed another logon page! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.108.83 (talk) 05:23, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Try deleting the cookies for Wikipedia and/or clearing your browser cache. You can also try the secure server.Jasper Deng (talk) 05:30, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

But how? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.108.83 (talk) 05:44, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Depends on your browser.Jasper Deng (talk) 05:59, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

google chrome121.44.108.83 (talk) 06:01, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * click the little wrench in the upper right corner ... go to tools .. you'll see the option to clear browsing data.— Ched :  ? 08:23, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

I have a different login error: I cannot log into my account, it does not recognize my password, and when I ask it to e-mail me a new password, nothing arrives. Could somebody have hacked my account, and changed the settings so it e-mails my password to whatever e-mail they have determined? Any idea who I should talk to to regain access to my account? I am usually logged in as ElijahBosley but of course since I can't log in, the following IP address will have to serve.: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.12.64.8 (talk) 17:12, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Never mind. I don't know what was wrong, but whatever it was has been fixed.ElijahBosley (talk &#9758;)  22:09, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Twinkle dead on my PC
I can no longer get Twinkle to function in reverting vandalism! Yes, I cleaned out my cache as instructed, but still I get no red Vandal revert highlight after clicking "diff", and no TW button when I manually (since I can no longer Vandal revert) click on the offender's Talk page. Do I need to get an upgrade to reinstate Twinkle? --- Glenn L (talk) 07:09, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * How is your Twinkle activated? As a gadget or included in your JavaScript?  Hazard-SJ  ±   18:52, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've also been getting the same problem today. It is a gadget.  Most of the time it doesn't show up at the top of the page, but sometimes it does.  I've also been getting a ton of "Service Not Available" messages while trying to load pages. Bgwhite (talk) 20:02, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Me too for the service availability errors! I've posted that below. Also re twinkle, the links showed up twice today, as if I had it on both as a script and a gadget (although it usually shows up as normal, with only one set of links), and then later it stopped appearing altogether. A few times, I got the message saying twinkle did not load. / ƒETCH COMMS  /  20:47, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * All you guys using the secure server right ? See one topic below. Known issue. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 21:00, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Secure server, I don't think so. Mine's just the gadget, that, while it's still listed as an option, no longer functions, having been replaced by the dreaded "WikiLove" application. I've even lost the list of symbols I used to use to close my remarks like this one. -- Glenn L (talk) 08:00, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Chesterton link
I noticed that a link in the mobile version pointed to a different (wrong) place from the full version. It is Wiener Library in G K Chesterton. I thought I ought to tell someone, but don't know`who. I've had a look through recent history, assuming it was just a time delay in correcting vandalism, but have not spotted any change to the link. The link in the mobile version was to the article Joseph Pearce, but later, when I rebooted the iPhone, all was well.
 * I did get a reply to this from John of Reading, who ‘cancelled” the HelpMe, and suggested ‘we’ ‘move on’ – puzzling really, as ‘we’ have not paused. Maybe he thinks I imagined the misdirection.  I did not, and am concerned that a link can be tampered with without leaving a trace.  Please, John O'R, do not ‘cancel’ again, but leave it for someone to see who understands and shares my concern.John Wheater (talk) 22:14, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Another user suggested I had clicked on a footnote and then another link, thinking I had just clicked on the Wiener link. Not so!John Wheater (talk) 22:22, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, here's my reply. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:57, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Another user suggested I had clicked on a footnote and then another link, thinking I had just clicked on the Wiener link. Not so!John Wheater (talk) 22:22, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, here's my reply. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:57, 8 July 2011 (UTC)


 * (outdent) It would probably help if I tried to summarised the technical issue. The article G K Chesterton has a link to Wiener Library; five sections further down it has a link to Joseph Pearce. John Wheater reports that he clicked on the "Library" link and ended up at the "Pearce" article. The problem went away after a reboot. So:
 * Can anyone think how the HTML code for the page could have been scrambled as it was transmitted or loaded, so that the link went to the wrong URL?
 * Or, can anyone think how the iPhone software could have misjudged the position of the click on the "Library" link, so that it acted as if the "Pearce" link had been clicked?
 * (John W, is this a fair summary?) -- John of Reading (talk) 21:10, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO WIKIPEDIA ?!
Someone posted this at Talk:Barack Obama but I'm moving it here for a quicker response. Hot Stop (c) 15:37, 7 July 2011 (UTC)


 * sorry for using caps and i am aware that this meybe not belong here(feel free to move it)but now that ive got your attention what happened to the infoboxes on all biographic articles on wikipedia ?! the text is smaller and evrything actually is smaller, why is that ? can somebody inform me or atleast make a reference to why it is so<font face="verdana" color="black">FREESAVELIY talk  15:27, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds like you changed the textsize in your browser by accident (Often happens when you press a modifierkey and use the scrollwheel at the same time). Which browser are you using ? For me under Safari I have "Actual size" as an option under the "View" menu. That restores 'normal' textsize on Safari for me. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 20:21, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * no am using the latest version of google chrome and microsoft internet explorer and it is normal text size settings, this is not a problem for just me this is a problem for evryone, please compare the infobox textsize before and after 7 juli 2011 then you will see what i mean<font face="verdana" color="black">FREESAVELIY talk  00:28, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it must be your problem, I don't see anything wrong.-- SPhilbrick  T  00:37, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * What do you mean ? do you accept the changes or do you not see them, not my problem here<font face="verdana" color="black">FREESAVELIY talk  00:45, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't see any evidence that the text in the infoboxes has changed size materially.-- SPhilbrick  T  11:39, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing without much looking into it that this might be related to the discussions at Template talk:Infobox officeholder and Template talk:Infobox officeholder. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:52, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Text size was changed from 90% to the default for the infobox class, which is 88% - the difference is only visible at some zoom levels. Peter E. James (talk) 01:04, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I really see no reason for using smaller fonts. We should use the smallest easily readable font and then never go any smaller. To go smaller creates accessibility issues. Rich Farmbrough, 14:48, 9 July 2011 (UTC).

(Partially) italic titles?
I was trying to change the displayed title of Hot Coffee mod from "Hot Coffee mod" to "Hot Coffee mod" by adding a DISPLAYTITLE template - but, it would seem, to no avail. I checked Guitar Hero (video game), and that seems to manage a partially italic title without any template whatsoever. Please advise. <font color="#006600">It Is Me Here  <font color="#CC6600">t / <font color="#CC6600">c 23:01, 8 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Fixed in . The infobox also set DISPLAYTITLE after you. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:15, 8 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much! <font color="#006600">It Is Me Here  <font color="#CC6600">t / <font color="#CC6600">c 10:33, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Creating Categories
All right, this is one of those rare times I am clueless. I have attempted to create categories for a new template, Template:WikiProject_South_Sudan, but I am lost. For example, Category:High-importance South Sudan articles is one of the many I had to set up to make the new template work. Obviously we add the category to the page we want in that category, but is there anything else I need to do to make it work? Is anyone willing to check my work (see my contribs) and ensure I didn't screw up somewhere? Mostly, I need help getting the template set up to allow quality rating and importance rating, which may take care of a lot of needed categories over time. CycloneGU (talk) 15:05, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm in the process of setting up some of the categories right now, and I've adjusted the template to allow quality and importance ratings. <font color="#FFCC66">elektrik <font color="#666666">SHOOS  (talk) 17:36, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I noticed the latter, that was an important thing to fix in there. Thanks for adding that.  I created a few more class categories in the meantime and got this working with Carl's (CBM) help, so it's now on the WikiProject page.  CycloneGU (talk) 18:09, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Percentage of thumbnail size, or minimum size unless thumbnail is larger?
In some articles the images are important enough to retain detail and exceed the thumbnail size, which can be quite ridiculously small. However, these absolute settings work against the user when their monitor resolution is high enough that they actually need fairly huge thumbnails, that are bigger than the absolute setting.

Is there some way to specify that certain images should always be a certain percentage larger than the thumbnail default?

Or that an image should at least be a certain size, unless the user's thumbnail setting is set to a higher size?

DMahalko (talk) 15:17, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * See WP:PICTURE, MOS:IMAGES and examples at right. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:25, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Browser page zooming: Higher detail thumbnails?
Is there some way to make images appear in a zoomed browser window with higher detail than what is seen by simply zooming the window and the browser stretching the images from the "normal / 100%" zoom size?

Normally I use Firefox with the zoom being +5 over the normal setting (Ctrl-Plus 5 times, it doesn't show what percentage that is). It would be nice if I actually got higher detail images from Wikipedia, rather than FF just stretching the 100% size image.

DMahalko (talk) 15:23, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The zooming is done on your computer, Wikipedia has no knowledge of it, so there is no way to do it directly. Apparently, there is no reasonable way to do it using JavaScript either. The only way I can think of doing this would be a script in which you set the zoom level and it would download bigger images based on that. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 15:47, 9 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The only way to have more detailed images is to increase your thumb size in your preferences. Then you may want to check a little script I've been working on: User:Edokter/FontSizer.js (see my user page on how to use). <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> — Edokter  ( talk ) — 19:49, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Tlrow template not working
On the Template messages/File namespace page, about half way down that section, after the row with Non-free logo in it, the rows in the table are appearing to be broken. I can't find where the error is, whether it's in the Non-free logo template or elsewhere. Appreciate someone's technical expertise here!! --Funandtrvl (talk) 18:37, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The problem lies within or one of its subtemplates, and isn't on the WP:TMFN page. There's something about the combination of a table, the  template and the numeric list ("This tag is not sufficient on its own ...") that is causing the table to be closed prematurely. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:20, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks, I'll put a request on the non-free logo template talk page. --Funandtrvl (talk) 19:27, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Facebook
How to convert a Wikipedia page into a facebook community page?117.195.65.163 (talk) 14:05, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I believe you need to include the title in your profile interests section. For instance, if you want to create the Cooking page, then you need to include "Cooking" as one of your interests. Then I know the page will be automatically created. I don't think you can create a page without linking to it from your profile, otherwise people would spam it (more than they do now, anyway). Gary King  ( talk  ·  scripts )  19:05, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Facebook has a topic on Community pages and profile connections on their Help Center. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 12:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

(od)The above page is of no help. Facebook has all of wikipedia, uploaded. It is amazing how deceptive these organisations have become, they beat around the bush. Well I think I have found the answer by trial and error. Spent many many hours. Correction I have only part of the answer. For example you want to put Vinoba Bhave, as a person whom you have been inspired by in your profile here is how one goes about...
 * 1) you first type Vinoba Bhave in Facebook's search window
 * 2) As you type you may get suggestions, select page that links to Wikipedia, ... see for Vinoba Bhave it was simple, as there was only one page, don't know what to do if there are numerous pages
 * 3) Click on the like tab of the Vinoba Bhave Wikipedia-Facebook page
 * 4) Check your profile, Bhave Wikipedia-Facebook may already be there as an info box, perhaps not where you want it, delete the infobox where you don't want it and add it where you do.
 * 5) If you think this is confusing, you are right, but if you follow instructions step by step it could work, which cannot be said for the instructions on the Facebook page linked above created by nerds who are deep fried in moolah. 117.195.89.45 (talk) 07:33, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Doesn't work with C.I.D. (TV series).Yogesh Khandke (talk) 06:47, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * This is an important technical issue, hope it is addressed by someone who knows how FAcebook works.Yogesh Khandke (talk) 05:49, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * For starters, Facebook federates Bing search results, that would explain step 1 and two in the instructions above, note that "Facebook has all of wikipedia, uploaded" - though they certainly could mirror most of wikipedia, if they chose - there's no evidence that is in place.Cander0000 (talk) 23:24, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Mis-sorted articles in categories
Sometime in the last day or so, it looks like something happened to the internal storage of some sort keys. I'll explain:

When I look, for example, at this page of the Living People category, I currently see 4 articles. All 4 have DEFAULTSORT statements with sort keys that should place the articles on a different page in the category. The page should be blank, and it was yesterday (I'm a sorting gnome, and I check it most every day). None of the 4 articles show recent edits.

Whatever happened doesn't appear to be affecting current edits. When I first looked at the category page, there were 6 articles listed; I edited 2, fixing the sort key on one article (Bruno César, a typical Iberian naming foulup) and on the other article (Bonnie Zacherle) leaving the sort key unchanged but making MOS edits. In both cases, the article subsequently was to be found on the right page of the category.

This problem is not unique to "from=Zzz", it's easily visible on some other pages in the category:
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Living_people&from=Nzz
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Living_people&from=Pzz
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Living_people&from=Tzz
 * (etc.)

At the moment, it looks like (extrapolated guess) about 1/10th of a percent of the articles in the Living people category are not showing up on the right page; affected articles are not just mis-sorted in that one category, but in all categories in which they appear. For example, Steven W. Taylor is in the wrong spot in this category page - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:United_States_Marine_Corps_officers&pagefrom=T Studerby (talk) 17:18, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably left overs from the changed collation in the sort algorithm for categories that was deployed a month or so ago. A purge or null edit should resort them. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 20:25, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * While a null edit appears to fix them, and it's possibly related somehow to the category fix from a while ago, they weren't there yesterday. Really... I look at "from=Zzz" every day, and most of the "Living People" category pages with "from" for [A-Y]zz every week or two, looking for mis-sorted biographical articles (articles where the first or second letter has a diacritic, resulting in a mis-sort - after the 2nd letter, they're going to be close enough to where they should be in almost all categories that they'll be findable by the average user). In other words, something in the last 24 hours triggered the shift of the placement of these articles; if it's also related to the change, then it's a 2-factor issue. And it doesn't seem to be just biographical articles (though I don't know if these are older or of recent vintage):
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:American_films&pagefrom=Szz
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:American_films&pagefrom=Tzz
 * I don't see this as a crisis if the back-end folk know what's going on and are reasonably sure it's not going to happen again; any edits will fix them, and frankly it's mostly gnomes of various stripes that care deeply about sorting anyway. While a mis-sorted list doesn't look good and I'm personally a bit frustrated, categories are just not looked at that much by the general public (IMHO), so 1/10th of 1% and declining isn't a crisis, if it's understood. So far, I don't think it is; I'll certainly speak up if it happens again, and I hope the back-end folk at list think about what might have triggered this change.Studerby (talk) 20:52, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I have investigates this issue and reported my findings at, let's see what the developers have to say. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 17:25, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

link underline color
As a user of the “Underline links: Always” setting, I noticed how when people get cute about link colors they usually do something like this: and that this causes the underline color to remain blue (#002BB8) instead of matching the span color (see ). One solution for this would be to use the following in concert with the “Underline links: Always” setting: a, a * { text-decoration:underline; } This will allow elements inside the <a> tag to underline in the current text color. Ideally we would have some way to specify the properties of the <a> tag itself, but this will have to suffice. ―cobaltcigs 16:37, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Curiously, if the specifies the background colour, it's browser dependent whether or not the underline is shown. Try hovering your mouse over the first 9 characters of my signature: Google Chrome, IE7 and Opera underline all, but Firefox and Safari don't underline the first 3, only the next 6. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:54, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That has to do with line-height issues more than anything, whether the underline is inside or outside the area affected by the background. In my browser the light-gray rectangle does in fact cover up the blue underline. If I rewrite your sig as Red rose64 I see a red underline on top of a light-gray rectangle, on top of a blue underline (see difference). ―cobaltcigs 19:17, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The ", a *" is an uncommon construction, incidentally. If you have a specificity problem, you should use !important. - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 18:46, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Merely using a { text-decoration:underline !important; } makes no difference. It simply makes the blue underlining of the <a> tag more important. It does not underline the colored interior span (using the text-color of said span) which is the goal here. ―cobaltcigs 19:17, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * +  should do the trick for both prefs. It won't work with external/extiw/new unless the specificity is increased (with !important for example), but IMHO that is probably the desired operation. --Splarka (rant) 07:24, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Derp. Actually, on further retrospection, you should just be able to do it inline:  ->  Bar . --Splarka (rant) 05:48, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yay! -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:42, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think people should be getting cute about link colours. It breaks look and feel, HCI and accessibility. Rich Farmbrough, 14:50, 9 July 2011 (UTC).
 * I know that. But if we are going to have them, they might as well not look like ass. I believe Splarka is implying that:
 * a * { text-decoration:inherit; }
 * applied globally, would do the trick. It would be inherited as “underline” or “none” depending on one’s user-prefs setting for the outer <a> element. ―cobaltcigs 14:02, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Odd behaviour in category
If I load up Category:All free media, the first 130 images are images that have a CSD notice on them, then I get 70 images as expected. If I then select "next 200" - I get a page with the same 130 images and the next lot of 70 images. Should there bee 200 images witha CSD, I doubt if I can see anything else. I've used 2 browsers, on 3 PCs and logged in and logged out - all do the same.  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:38, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I was able to duplicate the issue with Fx 4.0 on Win 7x64 just by taking a look. That's just bizarre. --Izno (talk) 22:04, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Off to Bugzilla then? <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 13:01, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well that will be a first, but I'll give it a whirl.  Ron h jones (Talk) 14:18, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29787  Ron h jones (Talk) 14:25, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Update - time the CSD was added must have been a database problem, files were not saved properly - all needed a null edit to fix. Now OK.  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:47, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

SVN server dump
I'm doing some research into collaborative software repositories. I have already processed the entire log from the MediaWiki SVN (~91,000 revisions), which has indicated to me there are about 500,000 unique file versions. I would like to obtain all these versions for analysis, and I have the script needed to do so. I doubt the network bandwidth required to run 'svn co -r [#] [url] > [file]' half-a-million times is, (a) something I want to wait on, and (b) is something developers want taxing their server. I was curious if someone might be able to run it on the server directly for me, and provide a pointer to the very large file that results? Thanks, West.andrew.g (talk) 13:22, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Best ask on the wiktech-l mailinglist or on the #wikmedia-tech or #mediawiki IRC freenode channels. There should be backups, so I guess it would be simplest to make a copy of one of those. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 14:52, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You could checkout the git mirror of the repository. That way, you get all the revisions in one go. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 16:39, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Automatic modification of templates on older pages
I am trying to find out if it is possible, though any automated mechanism, to have a template display with different or extra wording if it is placed on a page of a certain age. In particular, at this discussion one of the proposed ideas seems to be having language added to the CSD template to encourage greater caution if it is placed on a page that has existed for more than 6 months. I am trying to figure out if that could be done without having editors manually use a different template. Thanks for any help. <font color="#00CC00" face="courier new">&Dagger; <font color="#009900">M<font color="#006600">A<font color="#006633">HE W A &Dagger;  &bull;  <font color="#330099">talk  17:49, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think doing that using just templates would be possible. What is possible though, is to create a bot that checks the age of the page and modifies the page accordingly. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 18:51, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That would only work if the CSD tag stayed a while. The ones that are a problem usually don't.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 05:42, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Why do you think so? Bots are able to react quickly. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 05:49, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Is there a script that would move refs from text to end of the article?
I recently became quite fond of the update to reflist, which allows full (named) references to be moved to the reflist template, with only the tiny ref notes remaining in the article; this vastly improves the readability of the editing mode (see this). But it takes time to move those refs, something that could be done manually. Is anybody aware of such a script/tool? --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk 20:20, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delta has one that I know of, but it had some kinks last time I used it. --Izno (talk) 22:06, 10 July 2011 (UTC)


 * This is referring to list-defined references. See User:PleaseStand/References segregator for a conversion tool. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 23:56, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

How to search for any articles with a section named "X"
Hi, I'm trying to use the search feature to return a list of all articles that have a section with a particular title. (For example "Give me any articles that have a section titled 'In popular culture'"). Is there any way to do this currently? I asked at WP:Help desk, and was referred here. Thank you. ~ Mesoderm (talk) 22:44, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Its possible but it would be one heck of a query. Are you looking in a certain category or article list or are you talking the whole 3 million plus articles. --Kumioko (talk) 22:59, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I am talking about searching every article on Wikipedia. When I type "Dogs" into the search bar, I get all of the articles that have the word "dog" in them. When I type "intitle:dog" I get all articles with the word "dog" in the title. What I'm asking is if there is something akin to "insectiontitle:dog" that will return all articles that contain the word "dog" in a section title. An example of where this would be useful is dealing with the horrid "In popular culture" sections that are slopped all over the encyclopedia. The large majority, probably 98+% of the "In popular culture" sections on Wikipedia contain nothing but unreferenced trivia that doesn't belong in an encyclopedia article anyway. Even those articles that do warrant such a section generally do it very poorly (including irrelevant junk like "In SOME_ANIME_SERIES episode 3, John mentions TOPIC_OF_ARTICLE while eating a cheeseburger with Jane"). I'd like to be able to do "insectiontitle:popular culture" and go through these articles and clean this type of garbage up. Other people have expressed interest in this as well when I asked this at the help desk. Even if it doesn't already exist, it doesn't seem like it would be much more difficult to implement than the title search and I think it would be very useful.(Other examples that comes to mind is searching for sections called "Criticism" or "Controversy", which also almost always suck.) ~ Mesoderm (talk) 02:35, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, unfortunately appears that this functionality is not available at the moment. There is currently a feature request bug outstanding on Bugzilla that has been stagnant since September 2010. I have posted a link to this thread on the bug report, as well as providing an example of how it could be useful here on Wikipedia. I'm personally unable to implement this myself, so I'll have to wait until I hear back from the developers. If I hear anything within the next few days, I'll post updates here. ~ Mesoderm (talk) 06:53, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * In the meantime, you could do a database scan and get a match for ==+.*Foobar.*==+ or something like it. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 14:48, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

How Wikipedia stops the nonsense bots
Wikipedia (& other Wikimedia sites) have no CAPTCHA for anon edits that don't contain a url. It also does not use the Bad Behavior extension for MediaWiki, is a much greater spam target than other wikis, and yet isn't overwhelmed by nonsense bots. How does it manage this? Is it just that those edits are reverted and the IP blocked so quickly that we don't see them? That's the only explanation that I can think of, but don't the bots just change IP address for every edit? Seeing other wikis get hammered by nonsense bots, I'm really curious how the Wikimedia wikis escape.

This would be useful to know for other wikis I work with - thanks. --Chriswaterguy talk 07:56, 9 July 2011 (UTC)


 * It's very difficult for a bot to "just change IP address for every edit". Wikipedia is pretty aggressive about blocking TOR exit nodes and other proxies, which greatly limits attackers' capacity to change IP with an effective frequency. Anti-vandal bots like Cluebot catch much of the dumb stuff, and edit filters do more. But the real reason is one of population - en.wikipedia has a very large number of active users, and lots of people with anti-vandal tooks like Twinkle. The vandals and spammers, even those with bots, are outnumbered and outgunned. This isn't an innate property of all wikis (nor of all Wikimedia wikis); en.wikipedia's editor base grew organically as its size and readership grew; there's no reason to suppose that if someone sets up a wiki in general that it won't be overwhelmed. I regularly see someone who has set up MediaWiki on their host somewhere and breathily hopes that "if you build it they will come", that a Wikipedia-like community will magically condense there and make wonderful things - in practice they get pasted by spambots because they don't have an adequate userbase to police their wiki. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 14:09, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If they desired, of course, they could use WP's IP blocking as a blacklist. They do have the features Chris mentions avaialbe though. (And note that we do require captchas for certain critical actions like account creation.) Rich Farmbrough, 14:53, 9 July 2011 (UTC).


 * Is there a MediaWiki plugin that makes doing that (mirroring another wiki's block list), for a minor wiki, practical? -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 17:11, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd also like a way to mirror Wikimedia projects' blocking of proxies. Thanks for the answers. --Chriswaterguy talk 20:39, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, and to support Finlay's point, part of the reason some of the MediaWiki prokjects have been mothballed is inability to keep up with vandalism. Rich Farmbrough, 14:54, 9 July 2011 (UTC).


 * I agree with the point about making a wiki not being just a matter of setting up and waiting for people to come. I actually wrote How to make a successful new wiki - the main point being that it's hard, and that too many people have set up green wikis or whatever without properly looking at what others are doing.
 * But for those of us who are doing a serious job, including keeping spam under control, learning from how Wikimedia projects do things is extremely valuable. --Chriswaterguy talk 21:11, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * BTW, all Wikimedia sites do use a CAPTCHA for anonymous edits that contain a URL; I just tested it myself. Graham 87 04:42, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * On Appropedia we just changed from the simple MathCaptcha to reCAPTCHA, and I'm surprised to see it hasn't made a noticeable difference. Not sure if it's worth trying Fancycaptcha, but I'll suggest it.

You also want to install the spam blacklist extension, which imports Meta's spam blacklist and others if you want. MER-C 13:42, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * We've installed the Spam blacklist and it's fantastic - we've added some common patterns we see in the spam (e.g. .*\.com\/forum\/index\.php\?topic=[a-z0-9]{50,} . It stops most but not all the spam - but doesn't stop registrations by spambots, so our UserList is getting filled up with spammers.
 * Bottom line - we're using CAPTCHA and the spam blacklist, and those are great but not enough. I'll look into the "blocking TOR exit nodes and other proxies" and WP:edit filters - if anyone has other specific suggestions, please share. --Chriswaterguy talk 07:35, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's much you can do about subcontinent+China spam sweatshops. MER-C 03:54, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed there's a certain amount of spam & vandalism we'll just have to roll back. But we want to follow best practice in reducing it.
 * In terms of the TOR nodes, we're trying mw:Extension:TorBlock, as used on Wikimedia sites. Is there something else that will help us with the "other proxies"? --Chriswaterguy talk 04:51, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You can also fetch ProcseeBot's block log. It can be accessed in an easy-to-parse format using the mediawiki api. The code for the bot, however, is not available to the public, so you'll need to make your own implementation to regularly fetch new blocks and cache them locally. -- slakr \ talk / 05:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia email from non-existent user
How is this possible? See WP:ANI. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 11:53, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll take a stab at this. I think when not logged in, any user can still see the e-mail user function for users who accept e-mail.  Thus, it's possible for an IP user to send an e-mail to someone.  I do wonder why you can't be required to register first, but there's surely a reason IPs are allowed to do that.  CycloneGU (talk) 15:08, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Good stab, but the e-mail user function is only available to accounts who can receive email in return. --jpgordon:==( o ) 15:14, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * So they see the option but, when clicking it, are told they cannot use it? Hmm.
 * In that case, I'd be curious myself. It sounds like Dougweller was the recipient of the e-mail.  We might need an e-mail header or something (not the actual address it came from or the e-mail itself, just the templating and such), but I'll let the technical experts address this.  CycloneGU (talk) 15:20, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed you need to have an account to have the minimum requirement (which means being in the "User" group) to be authorised/ability to use the EmailUser function. Bidgee (talk) 15:25, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Any registered user can access the email function if they have a valid email address. AFAIK email addresses can also be shared between accounts. I was previously sent email from, which has no edits and existed primarily to access the email function. It's likely here that the email is coming from a registered account but they aren't saying the account here. <font color="#FFCC66">elektrik <font color="#666666">SHOOS  (talk) 16:26, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm getting the emails after WikiAlphaRobot was blocked. I'm also getting more of the emails.  User is VallorVir.  Great, do a AfD and get spammed every time. Bgwhite (talk) 16:56, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * While I was typing, Dougweller put a block on the account. So, spammer is now blocked. Bgwhite (talk) 17:04, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * My suspicion is that the user got confused between (1) a user without a user/talk page (i.e., redlinks) and (2) a user that does not exist. T. Canens (talk) 08:22, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

SUL
I applied for SUL two years ago under my then-current WP name, TrackerTV. (I still have the rights to that username on en Wikipedia). However, when I renamed my enWP account to Raymie, the others were never able to follow suit.

I'd like someone to help me rename my SUL to Raymie and check for conflicts so I can at least have the same name on, say, Commons. Raymie (t • c) 05:27, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think what you need to do is ask for accounts to be renamed elsewhere (e.g., Commons) separately and then merge them into your SUL on Raymie. If the wiki does not have a local bureaucrat, you need to ask at meta. T. Canens (talk) 08:30, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I second asking for help on meta or on Commons. This is definitely not the place.  Asking for help on every project can sometimes be a problem due to language but for the conflict check just go to: your global contributions and see if it shows the account as unified, accounts that exist but aren't unified generally belong to someone else and you'll have to see if they're willing to voluntarily give up their name or if it's possible to usurp.  If the account belongs to you but isn't unified you just need to go to your preferences.  If the account doesn't show up then you simply need to log in under this account on that project.  You can post further questions on my user talk page or look me up on IRC if you have trouble.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 10:29, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually since your Commons account has like 7 edits, if you don't mind losing them you can just go to Special:MergeAccount to create a new SUL account. T. Canens (talk) 18:36, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Please, ask here for you old account on Commons to be renamed to the new name. And here the same for Wikiversity. Your accounts on other projects do not have edits, and you can forget about them. Ruslik_ Zero 19:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Duplicate /doc page showing up on template page
Hi- I recently requested changes to Template:Orphan, to put the "subst" line and the includeonly category within the Ambox template (as it shows to do at Template:Ambox.) The changes were made, however, now the /doc page for that template is transcluding twice, even though the code for it is only in there once. Is there a problem somewhere within the template, or is it within the Ambox template? Thanks, --Funandtrvl (talk) 20:00, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That's really odd. When I copied the same code to my sandbox (incl. the doc), it showed only once. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 20:17, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm wondering if the problems described at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (article message boxes) are related? --Funandtrvl (talk) 20:27, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes - "name=Orphan" was added, is required by the check used for adding the documentation, so it's added in the  template as well as in the  template. Peter E. James (talk) 20:46, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, so the directions at Category:Pages with incorrectly substituted templates are incorrect, because they say to add the "name" parameter? --Funandtrvl (talk) 21:07, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The code can be added directly or via the ambox template - the name parameter in ambox also adds the documentation. Other templates I've looked at have the code above the ambox, so I don't know if it's correct to say that the ambox option is preferred. Peter E. James (talk) 21:28, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've noticed that when the "subst" code is above the ambox, then there don't seem to be problems with the duplicate /doc pg. Maybe there should be a note about the problem in the usage instructions at the Ambox /doc page? --Funandtrvl (talk) 21:55, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The duplicate documentation can be fixed by removing the at the end if "name" is in the ambox. The only problem I can see (which should be mentioned on the category page) is that the "name" can cause a template loop if the template is used in its documentation. Peter E. James (talk) 22:15, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Peter's got it. This is not an error but a feature that I added to ambox a while ago. I wanted a name parameter so that it could give an error message when incorrectly substituted. So I thought this would be another use for this parameter and simplify the template code a bit more. I must admit, the wisdom of this new feature was questionned by another editor at the discussion linked by Funandtrvl, and now I see that this has caused confusion, I would not be averse to removing the feature if people feel this is best. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:01, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't see a problem with leaving the name parameter in the Ambox template, because it does serve a purpose; however, I think that the usage instructions on both Template:Ambox and Category:Pages with incorrectly subst. templates (and anywhere else that it's mentioned that I'm not aware of) need to be updated to let people know (like myself) not to use the name/subst fields within the template, along with the documentation template, or else there will be duplicate /doc pages. I seem to have found out the hard way, and it would serve a purpose to notify other editors ahead of time of the problem. If having the name parameter removed would really not cause any problems for tracking bad template substitutions, then it probably would be better to remove it. Since I'm definitely not a programmer, those out there who know what they're doing need to let us know whether the parameter should stay or not. Thanks, --Funandtrvl (talk) 20:40, 12 July 2011 (UTC)--Funandtrvl (talk) 20:40, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Customizing Wikilove
Greetings. I'm trying to customize my Wikilove extension, and I was wondering if there's something obvious I'm missing. I read WikiLove and examined MediaWiki:WikiLove.js. Then I edited User:Quadell/common.js and purged my cache, but I'm not seeing any changes. What am I doing wrong? Is User:Quadell/common.js the wrong place for me to make these changes? Thanks for any help you might have. – Quadell (talk) 03:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Pretty sure, contrary to the documentation, that the first line should have an equals sign rather than a colon. (Also, you may want to wrap it in some kind of conditional, otherwise you get JS errors on every special page.) Sorry for not getting back to you earlier, I was busy playing at being editor-in-chief. - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 09:20, 12 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Understandable, that's a rather important job! Yes, changing the : to = worked, thanks! I'll let mw know. It's odd that the first two lines, which were functionally correct, were ignored; I guess if any part of common.js has a syntax error then the whole thing is thrown out without comment. Also, the icon doesn't show up on special pages, so that doesn't seem to be a problem. Thanks for your help! – Quadell (talk) 11:13, 12 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, syntax errors in one script cause other scripts to fail. Yes, that's the problem: you'll get "WikiLove.xxx not defined" JS errors on special pages (minor, but niggly). - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 11:30, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

E-mail notification
Is there some problem with e-mail notification of changes to your talk page? It appears to have stopped sometime yesterday. Keith D (talk) 09:28, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd like to second this. I just got 18 emails notifying me of two changes to my talk page that happened days ago. And this is the second time in the last 24 hours that it's gone haywire. Magog the Ogre (talk) 20:52, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * From the IRC channel: "< Ryan_Lane> job queue had died. Tim restarted it yesterday". So mails are not sent immediately, they are rather low priority compared to edits. So they are put on a job queue. This jobqueue is processed separately (I believe even on separate servers), sometimes it crashes and stuff piles up. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 22:25, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Mails are starting to appear. Keith D (talk) 23:06, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Need help restoring 11,000+ edit history
A move was done at Joseph Smith, Jr. (moved to Joseph Smith) but something happened and the move was done twice, wiping out the article contents and making most of the history inaccessible. Is there someone that could help rescue the 11,000+ edits to that article? Thanks for the help. Padillah (talk) 20:10, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Standard restore won't help, it times out. I think we need a dev. <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> — Edokter  ( talk ) — 20:25, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It may be possible to restore parts of the history in smaller amounts - it worked for 23 revisions. I don't know what the maximum is, but 1,668 revisions of Southern Sudan were restored recently as part of a page move. Peter E. James (talk) 21:00, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, it can be done in chunks, but with 11,000+ edits that's a lot of single boxes to check, it would take hours to do it that way. Gwen Gale (talk) 21:28, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Didn't someone have a userscript to do this with the API ? —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 22:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

No way to mark deleted articles as patrolled
Occasionally, an article gets deleted before it is marked as patrolled. With the new system where a token is required to patrol something, it makes it impossible to mark these articles as patrolled, and as a result they litter the Special:NewPages list. Is there some modification that can be made to the patrolling mechanism which either allows us to mark deleted articles as patrolled or automatically marks deleted articles as patrolled? <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#0a0 -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#5a0 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> babble 20:19, 12 July 2011 (UTC)


 * A page that was moved without creating a redirect can be patrolled by using the URL from Special:Newpages and changing the page name to the name of an existing page - it doesn't have to be the page's new name, changing it to "Main Page" opens the main page with "Mark this page as patrolled" in the corner (but the patrol log shows the original title as a red link). I don't know about deleted articles - I've never seen one in NewPages but maybe this would still work. Peter E. James (talk) 20:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That's such a kludge I recommend someone file a bugzilla report on it LOL. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 20:53, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's one that'll still be on the Special:Newpages list for a few hours: Amanchi Venkata Subrahmanyam (AVS).  It's at the very bottom of the queue.  <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#a00 -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#5a0 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> gab 21:01, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I tried getting the token from the API and manually assembling the link with &action=markpatrolled&token=blahblahblah but it still fails. Doesn't appear to be technically possible to mark them as patrolled.  <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#0a0 -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#00a 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> gab 21:17, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * This seems to be related to Template:Db-unpatrolled and 17463. I recreated Amanchi Venkata Subrahmanyam (AVS) and deleted it and it seems to have removed it from the newpages log. Killiondude (talk) 21:32, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, never knew about db-unpatrolled. I suppose I could at least re-create the article and tag it with that template, until the bug is fixed.  Thanks for the links.  <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#00a -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#00a 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> yak 21:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Special:Contributions - is this a bug?
This link says: "This account or IP address is currently blocked. The latest block log entry is provided below for reference: (del/undel) 09:04, 4 June 2011 CIreland (talk"

- contribs

However, that's not the latest block entry, as this link shows. Thoughts? 28bytes (talk) 21:42, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You found a bug. Reported as 29851 —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 22:20, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Watchlist (+503) figures
How do I get the red and green <tt>(+502)</tt> thingies off my watchlist? I did something about it in my CSS file ages ago, but they've just reappeard this afternoon? <font color="#FFB911">╟─TreasuryTag► Regional Counting Officer ─╢ 15:13, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Your monobook css file still has the required styling. Did you switch skins ? —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 16:51, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No, but they seem to have disappeared again now actually. So weird! Thanks anyway. <font color="#7026DF">╟─TreasuryTag► sundries ─╢ 16:57, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

AAAA DNS lookups of en.wikipedia.org are broken.
The DNS nameservers for en.wikipedia.org are broken. They do not return valid answers to AAAA queries. The SOA record in the AAAA response in unrelated to the query causing the response to be rejected. This causes problems for any dual-stack (IPv4 + IPv6) clients looking up en.wikipedia.org.

What should have happened is that the CNAME record chain, visible in the A response, should be in the answer section of the AAAA response. This is basic RFC 1034 processing and should have been caught at the QA stage by the nameserver vendor and/or with acceptance testing by WikiMedia.

RFC 1034, Section 4.3.2. Algorithm, Step 3a, paragraph 2.

If the data at the node is a CNAME, and QTYPE doesn't           match CNAME, copy the CNAME RR into the answer section of the response, change QNAME to the canonical name in           the CNAME RR, and go back to step 1.

The nameservers need to be replaced with ones that correctly implement the base DNS protocol. Failing that replace the "en.wikipedia.org. 3600 IN CNAME text.wikimedia.org." record with a A record so that bug in the nameserver does not impact on the responses generated.

Being able to tell clients that a AAAA records do not exist is just as important as telling them that A records does exist.

Mark

% dig +norec en.wikipedia.org aaaa @ns1.wikimedia.org


 * <<>> DiG 9.6.0-APPLE-P2 <<>> +norec en.wikipedia.org aaaa @ns1.wikimedia.org
 * global options: +cmd
 * Got answer:
 * ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 22781
 * flags: qr aa; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0


 * QUESTION SECTION:
 * en.wikipedia.org.		IN	AAAA

wikimedia.org. 86400	IN	SOA	ns0.wikimedia.org. hostmaster.wikimedia.org. 2011071323 43200 7200 1209600 600
 * AUTHORITY SECTION:


 * Query time: 253 msec
 * SERVER: 208.80.152.142#53(208.80.152.142)
 * WHEN: Thu Jul 14 12:01:44 2011
 * MSG SIZE rcvd: 108

% dig +norec en.wikipedia.org a @ns1.wikimedia.org


 * <<>> DiG 9.6.0-APPLE-P2 <<>> +norec en.wikipedia.org a @ns1.wikimedia.org
 * global options: +cmd
 * Got answer:
 * ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 4821
 * flags: qr aa; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0


 * QUESTION SECTION:
 * en.wikipedia.org.		IN	A

en.wikipedia.org. 3600	IN	CNAME	text.wikimedia.org. text.wikimedia.org. 600	IN	CNAME	text.pmtpa.wikimedia.org. text.pmtpa.wikimedia.org. 3600	IN	A	208.80.152.2
 * ANSWER SECTION:


 * Query time: 347 msec
 * SERVER: 208.80.152.142#53(208.80.152.142)
 * WHEN: Thu Jul 14 12:01:52 2011
 * MSG SIZE rcvd: 104

%  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.172.21 (talk) 02:34, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

New Menu ↔ Tabs toggle
I need testers for a new script that will eventually replace the MenuToTabs gadget. This script lets you toggle between the Vector dropdown menu and tabs, eliminating the need to check/uncheck a setting or gadget each time. Simply clicking the arrow will switch between the menu and tabs. It works on all dropdown menu, even Twinkle, and remebers its setting per menu. Add the following to your vector.js:

Make sure to disable the MenuToTabs gadget before using this script. Any and all comments welcome! <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> — Edokter  ( talk ) — 11:11, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you meant to say that it should go in vector.js, so I've edited your message above. Revert me if I'm wrong, of course! —DoRD (talk) 16:05, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You're absolutely right! <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> — Edokter  ( talk ) — 16:08, 12 July 2011 (UTC)


 * It does not work for the "page and user" menu gadget (User:Haza-w/Drop-down menus) which doesn't use a standard menu setup (and probably needs a rewrite to be more compatible with Vector).
 * The easy-block script (User:Animum/easyblock.js) I use also appears to be incompatible with your script. Its entire menu drops down at once and covers some other tabs.
 * Otherwise, I like the idea and it seems to work well. —DoRD (talk) 16:27, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The Toggle does not interfere with the "page and user" menu, which is good.
 * Easyblock should use  for it's main menu item, then it should work. <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> —  Edokter  ( talk ) — 16:52, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I need some help from a jQuery animation expert. The tabs now fade while the menu rolls up and down. But I want the tabs to slide. I'm having a very hard time pulling this off (despite jQuery's claim of easiness); every time I get the tabs to slide, the menu no longer animates or is entirely screwed up. I really could use some help. <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> — Edokter  ( talk ) — 13:35, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Article feedback
Hi folks,

This is just a headsup - the Article Feedback tool will begin gradually deploying today. The Operations team will be monitoring for site performance, but if you have any problems, you might drop into IRC and let someone know... Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:48, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * For the record:
 * The IRC channel to report technical issues is #wikimedia-tech (connect)
 * You can also give your feedback about the tool on mw:Talk:Article feedback
 * Helder 22:05, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there a way to opt out of this monstrosity for me? I realize there's a vast conspiracy to make Wikipedia as slow as humanely possible, and that's fine - not a bad plan - but surely I don't have to participate if I don't want to? What's the opt-out code or button to click on this one? All Hallow&#39;s Wraith (talk) 10:37, 15 July 2011 (UTC)


 * You can opt out through your preferences. Currently the bottom box on the Appearance page, it says, "Don't show the Article feedback widget on pages" --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 12:21, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Firefox editing screen
Has something happened in the last 24 hours to the editing interface? All of a sudden, the editing screen under Firefox 4.0 is much more complex, with a WYSIWYG-style toolbar, which is not my preference. I see this style screen when I use Safari on a Mac, but I've never had it on Firefox on a PC before. What's changed, and how do I change it back? Beyond My Ken (talk) 13:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, it looks like WikiEd got turned on somehow. For some reason it has been functional under Safari, but Firefox only started recognizing it today, undoubtedly a problem on my end. Beyond My Ken (talk) 13:46, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * (ec) I was going to ask if you had WikiEd enabled. On a side note, I'll point out that FF 4 is obsolete and will no longer be maintained (see Firefox) so you should seriously consider upgrading to FF 5. Cheers ​—DoRD (talk)​ 13:51, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that, I'll look into updating. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:01, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Maintenance of dead ELs
When a web domain no longer provides the desired resource, but the equivalent is hosted elsewhere, I would like to track down usage of the former on Wikipedia so that I can replace it with the latter. The specific case is http://nrekb.nationalrail.co.uk/ - is there a tool available which will list Wikipedia pages containing one or more links to that domain? -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:03, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think Special:LinkSearch is what you're looking for. Jenks24 (talk) 17:26, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Modifying the Article Ratings feature
I just rated Liberty, Kentucky, becoming the first user so to do. When I view the ratings, I find that there has been "1 ratings" of each type. Is there any way to modify the feature to have it read "1 rating", or is that something that requires a developer since there's no Article Ratings template? Nyttend (talk) 17:33, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I tried it (the message is MediaWiki:Articlefeedback-report-ratings), but apparently JS texts don't have support for our PLURAL keyword yet. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 20:24, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Known issue: 29323. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 20:26, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

The article that won't die
There is a particular article Aaron Sanders, that appears to be stuck in a month old version according to toolserver and Bots that read the database. It was deleted on May 8, recreated and redeleted a few weeks later, and then I recreated it as a redirect, but it still shows up in searches such as this, this or Dashbot's list. It is very strange. I've asked here before, tried doing a purge, but nothing's helped. Can someone get into the toolserver database and update this file? Thanks. The-Pope (talk) 13:03, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I did a null edit (clicking on the edit tab, and then on the "Save page" button without making any changes). Lets see if that helps here - I know it fixes some problems.. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 13:10, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've tried null edits, actual edits, purge edits, deletion, recreation but this indicates that the database last change time is updated, but the file size and categories are still as per over 2 months ago. Still not fixed. The-Pope (talk) 17:01, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Can anyone who has access to the deepest darkest corner of the database assist? Or are us mere mortals just going to keep trying the same thing over and over again, in a futile search for a different result from the same actions? The-Pope (talk) 04:08, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll see if I can find somebody to take a look, with caveat: I'm not even sure who to ask about this one. :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 16:26, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * She found me. :) I've passed it on to the Director of Operations, who hopefully will make sure it gets added to someone's queue.  I'd caution you, though, that this one doesn't appear to be a critical level incident, so it may take some time... but if you'd like an update on the status, feel free to email me directly.  philippe@undefinedwikimedia.org.  Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 23:03, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a toolserver bug report (https://jira.toolserver.org/browse/TS-997) and comments on another report (https://jira.toolserver.org/browse/TS-783) which may be related. As well as Aaron Sanders, toolserver is still showing Nautical Science and RS-422 (possibly the redirect deleted for the page move) in the speedy deletion category. Peter E. James (talk) 23:37, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info and the other similar dodgy articles. I understand that it isn't a high priority issue, I just wanted to get it on someones list! The-Pope (talk) 15:33, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * just a heads up I just confirmed that this is not a WMF bug, it is in fact a toolserver bug. I will be notifying River (a TS root) about this again. Hopefully this can be fixed. ΔT <sup style="color:darkred;">The only constant 13:41, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Images not refreshing
It's been a few days and the images on this page are not refreshing/purging. Any idea on how to fix it? SharkD  Talk  18:29, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The servers that deal with image thumbnail generation are acting up (again). Wikimedia knows where to spend its money. Killiondude (talk) 20:50, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Likely the dreaded 28613. It's been showing a lot lately, and all attempts to pinpoint the problem have failed so far. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 16:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Once upon a time there was a wiki with thousands of tiny little feet... SharkD   Talk  05:23, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Also this image that I uploaded hasn't propagated any thumbnails:  Craig Pemberton (talk) 16:02, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If you visit that page - or anything else on Commons - right at the top you'll see the message "System notice: There is currently a problem with thumbnail generation when images are replaced/updated, a solution is being worked on." so it is a known problem; the message has been showing for a few days now. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:18, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you Redrose64, I see it now. It could be more prominent and ideally visually similar other warnings or error messages on Wikipedia.Craig Pemberton (talk) 18:30, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

More detailed statistics
For some time I've been thinking about additional parameters to be displayed in Special:Statistics, particularly the number of lists and outlines, which would help to figure out the "standard" encyclopedic content (in other words, making Statistics able to distinguish between "standard" paper encyclopedia entries and list/outline pages). The total number of biographies in statistics may be also handy. Thoughts? -- Brand meister t   00:27, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for asking. I have wanted: number of redirects (if possible), and number of redlinks (even if an estimate) as statistics to estimate the "missing articles". The number of biographies is a great idea, but the number of lists seems too nebulous, and perhaps the count of outlines (as "Outline of France"?) should just be a category count. In general, I like the idea of adding more statistics; the page is already so large that such additions will not "overpower" the page. Meanwhile, as an off-topic issue, I wish we had a parser variable for "{&#123;USERIMAGESIZE}}" to get the current user's default image thumbnail size number (such as "250" for 250px), because we cannot autosize unframed images without "thumb" forcing the outer frame to appear. Anyway, using category counts:
 * {&#123;PAGESINCATEGORY:Living people}}  &rarr;
 * {&#123;PAGESINCATEGORY:Outlines of countries}} &rarr;
 * So, it might be good to just link to a broader essay page titled "WP:Counts of major categories", which will show the major categories with counts of current articles, such as the total count of pages (above) in the BLP "Category:Living people". -Wikid77 (talk) 20:23, revised 00:15, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * we cannot autosize unframed images without "thumb" forcing the outer frame to appear - this is already available, just use "frameless" instead of "thumb". The only downside is that you can't caption it. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:01, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

List of Eminem songs
Hi, I started a list of Eminem songs here: User:OlivierBrisson/List_of_Eminem_songs. When I created the table, it said it's had a limit of lines I could use. I'll clearly need more lines than the limit it said, so I just wanted to know if it's possible to make an exception for this page, or something to give me unlimited lines?

Thanks a lot!

--OlivierBrisson (talk) 18:47, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't answer your technical question. You did a lot of work on this, but check out YOUTUBE, just in case! GeorgeLouis (talk) 19:03, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have moved this thread to the bottom per WP:TPG. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:37, 16 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I haven't heard of such a line limitation. What exactly does the message say? Does it occur when you hit "Save page"? Can the page be saved when you get the message? PrimeHunter (talk) 01:56, 17 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I put end-table token "|}" at the bottom of user-page "User:OlivierBrisson/List_of_Eminem_songs" and perhaps what will allow numerous more rows to be displayed within that wp:wikitable. I have no other suggesions. -Wikid77 13:25, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Country articles fail to load on the secure server
I have no idea what is causing this, but when using the secure server (enforced by the Firefox HTTPS-Everywhere addon), most enWP articles on countries fail to load, instead giving the following error message (this one, for example, received from https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/United_Kingdom): Proxy Error The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server. The proxy server could not handle the request GET /wikipedia/en/wiki/United_Kingdom. Reason: Error reading from remote server

Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) mod_fastcgi/2.4.6 PHP/5.2.4-2ubuntu5.12wm1 with Suhosin-Patch mod_ssl/2.2.8 OpenSSL/0.9.8g Server at secure.wikimedia.org Port 443 I could understand if this happened on articles randomly, but I only seem to experience it on articles about countries. And it is intermitent&mdash;the other day, for example, Canada worked fine, but today it does not.

Does anyone have any idea what may have caused this, and/or how to fix it? <em style="color:blue">Den <em style="color:red">dodge T\C 14:27, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm too getting the "Error reading from remote server" message. From my experience, this happens because you're trying to open a big article at the secure servers, which I believe may be slower. I don't think there's anything you can do about it. If you change to the normal servers, it may work better. Hey  Mid  (contribs) 14:54, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's what I usually do. It just struck me as unusual. However, I'm not sure the size of the page is anything to do with it (or at least not the only factor), since ‎List of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition monsters (which Special:LongPages states is the longest article on the wiki) loads just fine. <em style="color:blue">Den <em style="color:red">dodge T\C 15:02, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * explains the issue: pages with a lot of templates take longer to load because the templates need to be parsed. My belief is that there is a limit regarding the rendering time (at least on the secure servers), maybe to avoid server overload, and because the secure servers probably are slower, this causes a server timeout. If you go to the edit page of Great Britain, you'll see that this article has a lot of templates to load, whereas the longest article you link to doesn't have that many templates. Hey  Mid  (contribs) 15:49, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

irrelevant Interwiki links
In the article Swietlan Kraczyna the interwiki links are for the category in which the article falls, not for the actual  article itself. How were they generated? How should they be removed?  DGG ( talk ) 07:21, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * They have been fixed with . Quite simply, the category pages were transcluded instead of being linked. This is possibly as a result of misunderstanding, see . -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:39, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Advanced InterWiki template
Hi. The Wikibooks has the best InterWiki horizontal template - b:Template:Associated Wikimedia. I look in the Wikipedia there is the Template:Sister project links. Is there more useful template (horizontal or vertical)? Could you please create a new template similar as the b:Template:Associated Wikimedia template? --Averaver (talk) 15:31, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a good template for Wikibooks, but I'm not sure a template like b:Template:Associated Wikimedia would work here: it looks similar to the navboxes that are at the bottom of most articles, and this would just be clutter (versus the smaller sidebar version). EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 16:05, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Having problems implementing custom CSS
I'm trying to fix the problem of IPA text being rendered in a barely legible font by changing the font to Lucida Sans Unicode. I use the Monobook style. I run Firefox 5.0 on Windows XP SP 2. (Incidentally, this problem only occurs on my desktop computer at home. Strange.)

I first tried adding the appropriate CSS to User:Athelwulf/monobook.css and reloading one article (Quebec French phonology) to see if it worked. Nothing changed, even after purging the server cache and bypassing the browser cache. I double-checked that my CSS was right, and even tested it by trying display: none;, again with no changes even after purging and bypassing. Consulting Help:User style didn't help.

What's that one critical detail that I'm sure I'm missing? — Athelwulf [T]/[C] 22:26, 17 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, to clarify: The problem of IPA being barely legible (not the problem with implementing custom CSS) only occurs on my computer at home, in case that's an interesting detail to anyone. — Athelwulf [T]/[C] 22:32, 17 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Most probable cause is that <tt>.ipa</tt> should be all caps: <tt>.IPA</tt>. Does it work now? <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> — Edokter  ( talk ) — 19:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Not exactly. It's strange, as the page loads, I see the font correctly rendered, but as soon as the page is finished loading, the font changes back to the almost illegible font. This completely baffles me. Is there a reason it would do this? — Athelwulf [T]/[C] 06:25, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Enabling download/information bar for images
Hi all, as you may be aware, in Firefox and Chrome, all Commons images include a bar above the image with several links reading "Download, Use this file, Use this file, Email a link, Information". Per discussion at User_talk:Dcoetzee, I want to enable this bar for images on the English Wikipedia, including En pages showing images that are actually on Commons such as File:Mona_Lisa,_by_Leonardo_da_Vinci,_from_C2RMF_retouched.jpg. My primary motivation for this is that I upload some very large images, up to 100 MB, and it is not useful for most users to download the full-size image (and for some, prohibitively costly), so I wish to provide Download links for reduced-resolution thumbnails. Some of these images are uploaded locally for copyright reasons, such as File:František Kupka - Katedrála - Google Art Project.jpg. I would also like to figure out what it would take to get this working in Internet Explorer (I'm a coder and can help but have no idea what this feature is called or where it's implemented). Thank you! Dcoetzee 18:38, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Where is this "download/information bar"? I have looked at several Commons hosted images and cannot see anything like that. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:45, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It's default for logged out users and opt-in for logged in users. Killiondude (talk) 21:59, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Opt-in how? -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's in user preferences, but I honestly can't find the setting. It's also not available in Internet Explorer right now, as I mentioned. Dcoetzee 19:45, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't seem to appear when in the Monobook skin (at least for me) - it is replaced by a bar giving links to

File             File history                   File links            Global file usage             Metadata


 * which might be the reason why you don't see it, Redrose? I wasn't able to find the setting to enable/disable it either. -- Kateshortforbob talk  15:42, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You are correct: the "File/File history/File links/etc." bar appears to be the equivalent of a TOC for file pages. Curiously, I need to be both viewing the file on commons and using Vector skin for the "Download/Use this file/Use this file/etc." bar to appear instead. Compare these four views of the same file: (i) en.wp, Monobook; (ii) en.wp, Vector; (iii) Commons, Monobook; (iv) Commons, Vector - the "Download/Use this file" thing only appears on the last one. I use Firefox under Windows XP, but these four links should allow comparison from any platform/browser combination. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:33, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Correct, it is only enabled on the default skin of MediaWiki Commons. Not on english wikipedia, and not on monobook. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 22:31, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Have just noticed: when you go to a commons image under Vector skin, the page initially displays with the Monobook-style "File/File history/etc." bar, and inside a second it changes to the "Download/Use this file/etc." bar. I suspect that is related to one of the other things that annoyed me so much about Vector and made me go back to Monobook: clicking "Edit" shows the Monobook-style edit window with toolbar, and a split second later both change their format and position, as per below. -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:00, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Narrow tabs gadget?
I've already ticked the "Gadget: Appearances" to get "+" instead of "New Section". But with the addition of the Wikilove heart (yes, I know I could choose to suppress it), at my preferred page width the "View History" is hidden on a dropdown menu. Is there an existing Gadget, or could someone write one, to reduce the width of various tabs: I'd prefer "History" or "Hist" for "View History", "Talk" for "Discussion" (I think that used to be the case?). Or lose the "Read" tab which seems redundant (yes, I know it's been discussed elsewhere, but to me it serves no useful purpose). Can anyone help, please? PamD (talk) 10:37, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've just found a partial solution by ticking another gadget: "Display the drop-down menus for page actions, such as 'Move', as tabs (Vector skin)". That moves both "Move" and "View History" back into sight, at the cost of losing... "Read", which I don't need anyway. But if there's one more tab introduced (like Wikilove), this solution won't work at this page width unless I can get narrower tabs. PamD (talk) 10:42, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm currently working (99% finished actually) which lets you collapse each tab section seperately. It may not be exactly what you need, but in the future it may contain an option to shorten the tabs. See the MenuTabsToggle script on my user page. <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> — Edokter  ( talk ) — 11:17, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Might I suggest that you switch back to Monobook? The tabs are smaller, and there's more room for them too, because they don't get squeezed over by the search box (that being in the left margin). -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:36, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * In preparation of a gadget (or other solution), here's a script to put in your vector. css js:


 * <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> — Edokter  ( talk ) — 14:28, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the various replies.
 * Edokter's work-in-progress sounds useful - I await developments.
 * Redrose64: helpful suggestion, but I think I'd rather stay with Vector as the default as it makes it easier to explain things to most other WP readers if we're using the same skin. (And I've got used to the search box in its new place, after some time!)
 * I tried creating my vector.css with the code here, but it doesn't seem to have had any effect. Maybe I need other stuff in the vector.js too? But thanks for trying to help. Having found my own partial solution I'm OK for now. Thanks. PamD (talk) 18:34, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * My bad... it should indeed go in vector.js. It should work now. <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> — Edokter  ( talk ) — 19:04, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's great. I've even abbreviated "History" further to "Hist". It all makes for a better editing experience than I've been having lately. Thanks. PamD (talk) 22:30, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * See also Wikipedia_talk:Twinkle if using monobook  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:26, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Turning off the "helpful" editing bar?
Sorry to sound like a noob, but when I edit a page, at first I just have a large textbox to type in. Then, one second later, a bar appears across the top of the editbox, with stylized B and I and Link icons, etc., and at the same time the text in the textbox changes size. (I'm using Chrome, with Vector skin.) The trouble is, sometimes I've already clicked in the editing textbox and have begun typing, and when the bar appears, my textbox loses focus. I don't ever use it that bar... is there any way to turn it off? (Perhaps in my common.css or something?) Thanks, – Quadell (talk) 12:53, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You can turn off the editing bar in Special:Preferences in the "Editing" tab - uncheck "Show edit toolbar (requires JavaScript)," and then click the "Save" button at the bottom. Logan Talk Contributions 12:58, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! (It so happens that I had to uncheck the "Enable enhanced editing toolbar" checkbox as well.) That worked. – Quadell (talk) 13:31, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

changes view not showing changes
In Google Chrome on Mac OS X Snow Leopard when I view changes (such as here) the unchanged version is still what shows in the page below the changes panes. Is anybody else experiencing this problem? —  Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124;  18:03, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yep. Windoze XP, Firefox. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:42, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Fixed after purging. <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> — Edokter  ( talk ) — 19:01, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

"View history" > "History"
There are a lot of people asking for ways/scripts/gadgets to maximize the real estate used by the Vector tabs. I think a small way to help is to change the "View history" tab to simply read "History"; this is just as clear and would IMO not hurt usability in any way. <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> — Edokter  ( talk ) — 13:59, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * People who 'want to maximize real estate' are 0.2% of the users that do a lot of administrative work. They can use a Gadget to change this very easily. We shouldn't compromise on usability here. 'History' is a rather confusing term for most common reader, the original usability study showed. Reading and Editing are concepts they know, but 'history' is totally unfamiliar to many users as a concept, and people were afraid to 'change history' of the article for instance. 'view' invites people to click, because it is a 'readonly' action. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 22:26, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't buy that. "Article History" might convey more meaning than "History", but the word "View" adds little if anything to the understanding. I'm with Edokter. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tagishsimon (talk • contribs) 22:30, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * As I said above, I wasn't seeing "View History" displayed at all when using my preferred window width (desktop-proportioned window rather than the full width of my laptop). I think a short visible name is probably much more usable than a long name hidden in a dropdown menu. PamD (talk) 22:37, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I concur with Tagishsimon. A friend of mine asked me to “go to the view history”. He thought it was a noun: the history of the view. Clearly the term is very confusing. It should read “article history” or “previous versions” or “previous edits” or something similarly unambiguous. — Timwi (talk) 13:21, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Hiding empty value template rows
I made a template for another media wiki project, which I have placed here to look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MattGagnon/template

Basically, all I really need is help with making this template hide the rows that do not have any information provided in them. In other words, if I leave something blank, such as office 2, 3, 4, 5, etc..., I don't want those rows to show up. Currently, when I leave those blank, the information still shows up. I am not a professional at this, and I did find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conditional_tables but I think that the jargon and descriptions are JUST a tad over my head for me to get it working myself.

Would really appreciate some help fixing this template. I'm assuming it doesn't take much more than the insertion of a little code here and there. Help? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MattGagnon (talk • contribs) 00:09, 21 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I suggest you use Infobox.&#32;– droll  &#91;chat&#93;  05:05, 21 July 2011 (UTC)


 * You misunderstand, I'm basically asking for technical help on MAKING an infobox, and as I said this is for another media wiki project... however I have had this same need a number of times when making new templates on Wikipedia, so if anyone can help me, it will be a significant help to me in making infobox templates here, as well as there.


 * I'm assuming this isn't a difficult solution. I'm willing to do the grunt work of editing my template, if I could at least get some more straight forward instructions on how to create conditional rows.  What I found was slightly over my head, as I said.  MattGagnon (talk) 13:14, 21 July 2011 (UTC)


 * You need to test if the parameter (office 2) has a value and only perform the output if it is set using -
 * Keith D (talk) 23:37, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Keith D (talk) 23:37, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Article assessment not updating
I'm pretty sure this is not because of the Job Queue, which does not seem overloaded. Yesterday at 17:24, I reassessed John Karlen to upgrade it from a Stub class to a Start class. It still says Start class on the Talk page. However, the main page is still showing as Stub class. I'm wondering why the upgraded rating does not show on the main page. In the past, it was a job queue issue, but can't be that now. Maile66 (talk) 14:01, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The stub tag on the article page and the stub ratings on the talk page are independent of eachother. Someone removed the stub tag, though (after your post here). – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk —Preceding undated comment added 14:33, 21 July 2011 (UTC).
 * It's not the job queue, which is behaving at the moment. Article quality assessments in talk page banners are independent of stub templates on the article page. That said, a bot might set a talk-page class to stub because of the presence of a stub templates on the article page, but there is no reverse process.
 * You need to locate the stub template (it should be between the categories and the inter-language links), and remove it manually, . -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:33, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Got it. Thanks. Maile66 (talk) 14:43, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Google's crawling of secure.wikimedia.org.
Searching the English Wikipedia with google for "foo" <http://www.google.com/#q=site:en.wikipedia.org+foo> gives 15 200 results, but doing the same search on the secure site <http://www.google.com/#q=site:secure.wikimedia.org+foo> gives only 1 hit. I expected the latter to give many more since it would be for all the languages, and that I'd have to include a "inurl:/en/" like: <http://www.google.com/#q=site%3Asecure.wikimedia.org%20inurl%3A%2Fen%2F%20foo>.

Turns out that <https://secure.wikimedia.org/robots.txt> requests no crawling. Anyone know why, and why there is still 1 hit (searching for anything seems to show only 1 hit). -- Jeandré, 2011-07-21t14:22z


 * Is it to prevent articles coming up twice: once for en.wikip and once for secure.wikim? -- Jeandré, 2011-07-21t14:22z


 * I for one appreciate that Google is not loading down the secure server. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 14:26, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The pages visible through the secure server should mirror those seen through the normal servers. I don't see why you would need to search them separately. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:38, 21 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I only log into secure, but do searches using Google "site:en.wikipedia.org %s" because it's better than WP's own search engine (except for pages like deletion discussions not crawled, for which I have to use WP search). If I then want to edit the page found, I have to copy the page title and go to its secure version. -- Jeandré, 2011-07-21t15:13z, -- Jeandré, 2011-07-21t15:14z


 * I see no reason we should ask search engines to index duplicate content. The secure server can handle less traffic and we shouldn't let search engines crawl it and direct their searchers there. Google respects https://secure.wikimedia.org/robots.txt and doesn't crawl it. The reason it appears at all in Google results must be that Google is indexing pages on other domains with links to secure.wikimedia.org. This is the situation where you would see "These terms only appear in links pointing to this page" on Google's cache of a page, but Google obviously doesn't cache pages they don't crawl. Another way to see Google didn't index the actual page is adding a search term which has always been on the page. For example, http://www.google.com/#q=site:secure.wikimedia.org+foo+origins gives no result although https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Foo_was_here has always contained "Origins". PrimeHunter (talk) 16:32, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

i want to know what wikipedia is currently using for text search.
i want to know what wikipedia is currently using for text search. I know it is based on mediawiki which has search built in, however ive read as well that wikipedia uses a lucene based search engine for English wikipedia.

Can someone tell me exactly what wikipedia is currently (July 2011) using for search?

thank you for your time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.137.245.206 (talk) 14:02, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * mw:Extension:MWSearch —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 16:48, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Help:Searching also provides some info on the features available. Killiondude (talk) 20:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Typosquatting
I ran into a typosquatting website (which I would not recommend necessarily going to) which seems to misrepresent itself as being affiliated with Wikipedia while directing them to click on a box which says they have won a prize. The cancel button does not work; you basically end up having to kill the browser. I would not be surprised if it installs malware too. I read the typosquatting article and looked around but could not find any way to let the wikimedia foundation know that yet another mole has popped up to whack. I did read the archived discussion here about similar sites, which didn't sound like anything actually happened then, but as noted here Wikimedia foundation has previously been successful in going after malicious typosquatters, so I would imagine if they knew about it they might actually do something. So how does one report these kinds of things to the right place? Rifter0x0000 (talk) 19:13, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I would suspect this is something for the legal people at Wikimedia Foundation, but don't know how to notify them. Have you tried asking at WP:AN? They're the next layer up from common or garden editors like you or me. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:42, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The delete log (2006) for Squatted Wikimedia domains says its been moved to an internal wiki. Does anyone have more current information?  — Dispenser 19:53, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You could send an email or talk page note for Philippe or Mdennis, probably. At the very least they'd know who to forward it to. Killiondude (talk) 20:56, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Infobox and image location question
An editor asked a question at the help desk that no one has been able to answer - effectively how does one place images where they belong; it looks to me like the first image after an infobox is forced to start below the lower edge of the infobox. Can that be fixed? The question is here, the article is Economy of Canada-- SPhilbrick  T  21:04, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Symbol move vote.svg|20px]] Answered there. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:44, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Please unblock www.vbs.tv or explain why it’s blacklisted
While attempting to create a new article I was blocked from linking to my only source for the information because its domain is blacklisted. The message that informs the user about the blacklisting should also list the reason(s) for the blacklisting. Otherwise it is like saying “No, you can’t add that, because we say so. Go away.” Not very nice. Please remove the domain from the blacklist or explain why it’s on the blacklist and why this link should not be added. Thanks! — Timwi (talk) 13:18, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * See WP:BLACKLIST for general information. The actual blacklist is at MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist and as you can see, it's quite lengthy and has no provision for explanations. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:44, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That's not entirely true. The notice at the top of the page states all changes must be logged at MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist/log. One time I forgot to log a change I had made and someone else was kind enough to log it. I think people try to keep on top of the log. Killiondude (talk) 21:03, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Blacklisted four years ago after a report at Wikiproject Spam: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam&oldid=170439306#Long_term_Spamming_of_vbs.tv --Carnildo (talk) 23:06, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "No provision for explanations". Hogwash.  b:MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist shows clearly that you can comment next to an entry, with information as to why it was added and when. – Adrignola talk 17:55, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * OK so I was going by the first several pages where none of the websites show anything at all in the way of explns. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:13, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The blacklisting notice lists some relevant message boards for requesting removals from the blacklist. I've started a discussion at one of them regarding this url. The thread is MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:03, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Ratings boxes
Is there a way to make those ghastly ratings boxes not appear? They look awful and are seriously stopping me from contributing at the moment; for the last week or so I've been over at Wiktionary instead. It was alright when they were only on a few pages, but putting them on all new articles is too far. I am using Firefox 5 if it helps. Big Dom  21:47, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Preferences - Appearances - "Don't show the Article feedback widget on pages" looks as if it's what you want. PamD (talk) 21:53, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, that was simple! I looked at the preferences but didn't see that there, so thanks. They're still ghastly though. Big  Dom  22:00, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * FYI: They are not shown in all new articles. See this section of the FAQ which explains the criteria used to determine which pages can be rated. Helder 23:43, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, they just seemed to be on every page I looked at or created so I assumed every article must have them. Big  Dom  16:20, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

BLP-prodded template needed
Could somebody well familiar with templates please create a BLP-prodded counterpart for Template:Prodded? Currently Template:Prodded is actively used by various deletion sorting lists to record both regular and BLP-prodded articles. However, a WP:BLPPROD tag has a 10 days expiration period, whereas a regular WP:PROD tag has a seven day expiration period, so it would be useful to have a separate template for listing BLP-prodded articles in deletion sorting lists. Thanks, Nsk92 (talk) 00:27, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I started the template for you at BLP prodded. — <span style="font-family: Courier New, monospace ;font-style:italic">V = IR (Talk&thinsp;&bull;&thinsp;Contribs) 00:39, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks! Nsk92 (talk) 00:42, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Semi-protection doesn't work?
I've just noticed that there seems to be something wrong with the semi-protection. The Amy Winehouse article is semi-protected, but still some unregistered users are able to do edits. Check the history for 2011-07-23 and 2011-07-24.Thomas Blomberg (talk) 01:11, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Looks like there was some confusion about setting the protection in place, but it appears to be sorted now. I see no indication that protection isn't working, since the time that it was actually enacted. — <span style="font-family: Courier New, monospace ;font-style:italic">V = IR (Talk&thinsp;&bull;&thinsp;Contribs) 01:55, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * There have been no edits by unregistered users since it was semi-protected 16:39, 23 July 2011 (UTC): . If you see unregistered edits on 2011-07-24 then you must have a different time zone (or you might be confusing redlinked user pages with unregistered users). PrimeHunter (talk) 02:06, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Glacial Loading Speed
I have spent more than 10 minutes many times today waiting for a page (Watchlist, Ref Desk, this one) to download. Is there a problem bigger than just my ISP and/or computer? Anyone else having problems today? Bielle (talk) 23:55, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Was it loading slowly on other websites? If so, it had to be your ISP/computer. Drewno (talk) 20:15, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Preformatted text
I was wondering if anyone could help me get my head around preformatted text It does what it's supposed to do, but the HTML tag doesn't normally change the text like that (from my understanding); this is something that occurs on MediaWiki software. Correct? So why does the font change and why is it boxed? Is it possible to modify the way it's displayed in any way? <font face="helterskelter">Swarm 04:01, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Some info on the PRE tag. The font is supposed to change, but the box is indeed added by MediaWiki. You can modify it however you like for yourself by modifying Special:MyPage/skin.css and adding CSS rules for the PRE tag. Gary King  ( talk  ·  scripts )  05:05, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I use the pre template as it wraps text making it more readable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gadget850 (talk • contribs) 01:05, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Firebug tells me that the reason the box is added is the following piece of CSS: As Gary said, you can modify the appearance of the box by adding to your personal CSS. For example, <tt>pre { border: none; }</tt> will remove the border. Ucucha 01:53, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Quick Feedback on Editing Experience: New Editors
Hey everyone,

I just wanted to give people the heads-up that we'll be rolling out an experimental feature aimed at collecting feedback on the editing experience of new editors. Currently called MoodBar (it's not a great name -- if anyone has anything better, please let us know), the feature will appear as a small link in the upper left hand corner for new editors that have tried to make an edit. Technically, this means users that have registered for an account after the launch date of the feature who have also clicked on an edit link (regardless of whether they've successfully completed the edit). We hope to get quick feedback from users on their early editing experience, ranging from reactions to the editor/wikitext, interactions with the community, feelings of success/frustration, etc. This feature is part of the set of New Editor Engagement projects.

We don't know whether this feature is going to provide meaningful feedback. We certainly hope it does, but I'm expecting a fair amount of noise as well (I'm sure there will be plenty of "Wikipedia Rocks!", which is nice, but not that helpful). For starters, we'll be publishing anonymized CSVs containing the data. If the feedback proves meaningful, we'll develop a dashboard to make viewing feedback easier.

We're going to be pushing to prototype soon, so please feel free to test the feature. To test the feature, create a new account, click on any edit link, and the invitation should appear. I'll put date this post once the feature is up on prototype.

If all goes well with prototype testing, we'll be rolling out this feature early next week.

Disambiguation note: Article Feedback Tool = feedback from readers on article content. MoodBar = feedback from new editors on their early editing experience.

Feedback on the feedback tool? Please post on the feature discussion page. Howief (talk) 21:36, 21 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Howief, thanks for notifying us about this. I have posted a pointer to this discussion on WP:AN. Seeing this extension made me Face-sad.svg sad because:
 * Wikipedia is not Twitter.
 * If the feedback given has a very low signal to noise ratio, will the extension be pulled?
 * Otherwise, what are the means for dealing with abusive comments, excessive personal information and other unwarranted crap? Will this result in an increase in administrative workload?
 * Will there be a new prompt every time the edit button is clicked, even if the extension is dismissed? Is the extension hard disablable via preferences or turns off when the editor (say) becomes autoconfirmed?
 * I appreciate the motivation behind this but I prefer something that is obviously separate from the encyclopedia. MER-C 04:10, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * As a bit more background, this extension was inspired by the Firefox Feedback Program. Mozilla has learned that by asking users to provide small, quick bits of categorized feedback, they can use data mining to surface trends in the data, in spite of the noise. See e.g. Aakash Desai's original presentation and update for more info about it.


 * The current implementation is a quick & dirty hack to just see what the s/n ratio is like and what kinds of feedback we can expect. If it's useless, we'll ditch it pretty quickly, which is why we're not making a fuss about this early deployment. As for crap, FF has implemented a few crap filters (as well as e.g. phone number pattern detection), which we'll also need to do if we get more serious about it. But having a certain level of noise in the data would be acceptable for the purpose this serves, and the data would never be encountered by anyone not looking for it, just like you've probably never heard of the FF feedback data.


 * The current implementation is dismissable with a single click, after which it disappears, but the hide code just uses a cookie, so it's imperfect. If all goes to plan, it'll only show up for new users.--Eloquence* 08:13, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think this is an excellent idea that, better than the article feedback tool, actually focuses on a point where significant difficulty is likely to arise, asks the right question and aims to give us meaningful feedback on that aspect of the editing process. I'll be interesting to see how it works out. Wikipedia is not Twitter; I can't help feeling this misses the point of the tool entirely :S --Errant (chat!) 09:05, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "new editors that have tried to make an edit." - hit edit and escaped without saving? On first edit? After first edit? Bulwersator (talk) 11:11, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Just to clarify, at least for our first experiments, feedback is not currently going to be immediately viewable by anybody outside the Foundation. This means that there won't be any need for administrative work, and it's definitely not "Wikipedia twitter" (do we seriously have a "Wikipedia is not Twitter" page?) — it's just about letting us at the Foundation know how new users experience Wikipedia. If we find that the feedback is actually useful and has a good S/N ratio, then (according to my understanding of the plan) we MIGHT start thinking about surfacing this information to the community. &mdash; Andrew Garrett  &bull;  talk  17:45, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, we seriously have a "Wikipedia is not Twitter" page/shortcut - it links to a content policy page and is part of Wikipedia's Five Pillars. <b style="color:Navy;">Jezebel's</b> Ponyo <sup style="color:Navy;">bons mots 15:53, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, we do intend to surface the feedback to the community. It will just be done via CSV file instead of a dashboard.  We didn't want to over-build this feature since we don't know whether the feedback will be useful.  We wanted to get a feel for the quality of the data first before building out the feature.
 * To answer Bulwersator's question -- the invitation is activated upon clicking edit. A user who clicks on the edit but doesn't successfully submit the edit will still get the invitation.  We'd like to collect feedback from anyone who's attempted to make a contribution, successful or not.
 * There's still an issue with the feature on prototype, so I'll let everyone know when there's something up that people can check out. Howief (talk) 19:45, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The feature is up on prototype now. There are still a few kinks we're ironing out, but feel free to play around with the feature:


 * Go to http://prototype.wikimedia.org/release-en/Main_Page
 * Create an account. Check "Remember me (up to 30 days)".  There is a bug on prototype that requires checking this box to stay logged in.  Note: Existing accounts on prototype will not work since the feature is only enabled for new users (i.e., users who create an account after deployment of feature.
 * Go to a random article.
 * Click Edit.
 * You should see the Moodbar invitation in the upper left hand corner.
 * Please let us know what you think on the feature talk page. Thanks! Howief (talk) 22:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Note to users without javascript, this feature requires javascript to function. - Hydroxonium (T•C• V ) 05:02, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Our deployment has gone ahead successfully, and the MoodBar is now being shown to new users who have viewed the edit page. &mdash; Andrew Garrett  &bull;  talk  23:16, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

permanently hiding the notices and such on Watchlist
I don't care about meetups or crat rights. Can I just turn that off forever?TCO (reviews needed) 03:36, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Add  to Special:MyPage/common.css. Ucucha 12:11, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Done. Thanks.  We might want to make it a profile setting.  I bet a lot of people want to turn that stuff off.TCO (reviews needed)  13:02, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That would be a very bad idea in my opinion. People should be informed about important things such as crats being authorized to take away administrator rights. We should not encourage people to 'not be informed'. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 16:47, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It's fine if it is the default setting. But people should have the option to turn it off if they want.  We all edit with different reasons and committments and should be able to tune out some of the spam if we choose.  Others may want more...and you can see them with RFA notice thingie on their userpage.  Chacun a con gout.TCO (reviews needed)  16:56, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course; people turning it off should also lose any rights to complain about social/community/policy changes that they miss because of it :) --Errant (chat!) 17:08, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed...and if they do, tease them.TCO (reviews needed) 17:58, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Let displaytitle use other names
The magic word DISPLAYTITLE allows users to change the visible title of a page, without changing the actual title, so that articles can have titles not possible in mediawiki, such as eBay (lowercase first letter). However, the template only allows page titles that resolve to the same titles; i.e. you have to be able to type the title as it is displayed on the page in the search bar and have it take you to the correct page. this page specifies that this is "under the current software configuration." Does anyone know if this is actually a setting that could be easily changed by a developer to allow titles that don't resolve to the normal pagename? If it is, then I plan to start an RFC about it, so that some articles can get the proper name - such as Cyberbu//y. Quinxorin (talk) 00:39, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have no answer to your question, but I think you meant to link to Cyberbully (film) rather than to Cyber-bullying. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 01:05, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There's going to be a resurgence in Willy-on-Wheels-ish vandalism, by simply using instead of having to move the page. -- Σ talk<sub style="margin-left:-3.5ex">contribs  01:10, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've already occasionally seen "new" users vandalizing pages with . Reaper Eternal (talk) 13:29, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess you mean Cyberbully (film) although your piped link doesn't go there. Cyberbu//y is a valid page name and I have redirected it to Cyberbully (film) so I don't see a need for DISPLAYTITLE here. If we wanted to call the page Cyberbu//y then we could just move it. The problem with changing the displayed title is not copy-pasting to the search box. You don't need to do that if you are already on the page. The problem is copy-pasting to a wikilink on another page. Editors do that all the time when they interlink pages and I think it should create a valid link. It is controlled by mw:Manual:$wgRestrictDisplayTitle and could easily be changed by a developer. See also mw:Manual:$wgAllowDisplayTitle. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:21, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, I don't think copy-pasting the displaytitle is the only problem. Other problems include displaytitle vandalism, and confusion when the displayed title isn't shown in categories, searches and other places showing the actual page name. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:28, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree, I don't think that display hacks are a particularly good idea: changing the colour is OK if it satisfies WP:CONTRAST, but removing (or adding) characters is not. I have seen similar things done on other User: pages, but I can't remember whose - and this one popped up on my watchlist today. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:55, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed.


 * I personally use the following JS snippet to undo this kind of changes on user pages:


 * Helder 13:59, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * My little protest (per 49330). --Splarka (rant) 09:04, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * <3 Killiondude (talk) 19:30, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

JavaScript Problems
I placed code on my common.js page that was on my vector.js page, and now that code is not working! I'm going to move the code back to my vector file until I find an answer. Please help. --Nathan2055talk 00:53, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Uh oh. Now all of my scripts have stopped working after the moves! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --Nathan2055talk 02:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ Apparently, against all known wiki laws, JavaScript pages break if moved. You have to cut-and-paste move, then nominate the old page for CSD U1. Weird. --Nathan2055talk 16:54, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably a caching issue, or the fact that there was a redirect. I don't think JS should be redirected using the wiki format. :^) --Izno (talk) 18:04, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Redirects on normal pages are wikicode. The .js pages are for JavaScript, not wikicode. Thus it's highly unlikely to work. If #REDIRECT is a valid token in JavaScript, it's not necessarily going to do the same as a MediaWiki redirect. It's unlikely to be the same, given that the hash sign has a completely different meaning in JavaScript. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:05, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Reported on bug #30074. Helder 19:38, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there a way to do a move without making redirects? --Nathan2055talk 21:02, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes: but you need to be an administrator or better, see WP:R. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:06, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Which is why I didn't get problems doing this. Ucucha 21:47, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

help...all my toolbar addins are not working
(I am not technically minded.)

I added a cite toolbar, some thingie from Commons that makes images easy to add when editing, and then a smiley thingie. Now none of that stuff is working. I really need the cite toolbar back please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TCO (talk • contribs) 05:45, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Without more detail, it's hard to say what exactly is going wrong. However, it looks like some script is interfering with another. You should probably try turning off all the scripts you added recently (such as by reverting ) and then turning them on one by one to see what causes the problem. Ucucha 12:34, 26 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I just went and nuked everything on the .js and .css pages, but still cite toolbar is missingTCO (reviews needed) 12:54, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Did you re-add the cite toolbar after blanking the page? If not, then go re-add only it. --Nathan2055talk 16:57, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

I have posted in detail about a similar problem; see Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_90. My problem was never resolved. Cleaning out my .js and .css had no effect. Apparently bits.wikimedia.org frequently times out, and bits is evidently the server that feeds the browser the necessary core javascript functions so that toolbars and gadgets can work.

I suggest to Ucucha to look at that report I linked and click on the example links to bits.wikimedia.org. Then try looking at your browser's status message bar to see if it's hanging when trying to access bits. I use Google Chrome, and the message "Waiting for bits.wikimedia.org" appears -- when this appears for several seconds I know I'm not going to get any of my gadgets. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:08, 26 July 2011 (UTC)


 * To create any of this stuff, I just followed instructions from people to cut and paste stuff to these strange pages. Is it possible for others to edit these pages of mine?  In which case, I just ask that someone fix it, please?  (Sorry if that is pathetic.)TCO (reviews needed)  17:41, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, admins can edit your .js pages. However, I wouldn't know exactly what to do. Did you turn anything on in your gadgets (via Special:Preferences)? Also, in User:TCO/common.css (now blanked), you should not have had the texts " ", but that probably didn't cause your problems.
 * Amatulic, those links work fine for me. Ucucha 21:56, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I had turned on the multimedia beta (for adding images). Could it have conflicted with the smilie code?  Just turned it off now.  Would like to get something back though.  Right now, I'm stripped bare.  At least the cite toolbar... — Preceding unsigned comment added by TCO (talk • contribs)  22:09, 26 July 2011
 * By cite toolbar, do you mean the citation expander? --Nathan2055talk 22:31, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

It's like up where the advanced characters and all that are. But I'm missing it. Actually it is back now. Maybe the image multimdia beta thing was conflicting with it (go in same spot). I turned that off in prefs. Would like to go reload all my .js and .css now.TCO (reviews needed) 23:21, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Upload file
I have created a upload form for myself there. Is there some way that the "Upload file" links to my upload form? Sir Armbrust <sup style="color:#E3A857;">Talk to me  <sub style="color:#008000;">Contribs  12:01, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Add the following to Special:Mypage/common.js:


 * If you're not using the secure server, remove "/wikipedia/en". Ucucha 12:11, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Sir Armbrust  <sup style="color:#E3A857;">Talk to me  <sub style="color:#008000;">Contribs  12:41, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Even better, use the function wikiGetlink provided by MW 1.17:
 * and it will work both on secure and unsecure servers. Helder 14:41, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks; I wasn't aware of that function. Ucucha 21:48, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks; I wasn't aware of that function. Ucucha 21:48, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Search results page proposal
For many years now Ive been wondering why there is no button on the search results page (when no article is found!) that allows you to search for the same entry in a different language. I often search for articles on the Dutch wikipedia, and when an article doesnt exist there should be a faster way of searching for the same thing in the English version (which is more likely to exist in most cases). Anyone else annoyed by this? A "search in different language" dropdown thingy with all (or most popular) languages would be rewarded with my eternal gratitude! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.65.26.37 (talk) 11:44, 27 July 2011 (UTC) As for the initial post, I don't think there's an option because a lot of times, searching for the exact phrase is pointless. Look at Earth. It is also called Aarde, Земя, Erde, Γη, Jörðin, 地球, Мушар, Zemlja, Daigdig, and Kalibutan (just to name a few). Even for some biography articles, how each language handles each person's name can be different; I bet you can't tell who バラク・オバマ, باراک ئۆباما, 巴拉克·奥巴马, or 贝拉克·奥巴马 are without clicking on the links. (all the same person) EVula // talk //  &#9775;  // 15:08, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Until such a proposal is implemented, the quickest way is just to change the "en" in the URL to the language code of the wiki you want to search, e.g. change http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=Bryste to http://cy.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=Bryste to search the Welsh Wikipedia. Thryduulf (talk) 12:53, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You can put the interwiki prefix (usually a language tag, but can be other things) into the search field itself as a shortcut between projects. For example, search for "fr:Wikipédia:Accueil principal" and you'll jump straight to the French Wikipedia's Main Page, or "s:de:Osymandias" or read Shelly's Ozymandias on the German Wikisource.


 * Other Wikipedias could add a link to the results page "try this search on en.wp | de.wp | es.wp | ... |" by editing the relevant MediaWiki page on their wiki (MediaWiki:Searchmenu-new / MediaWiki:Searchmenu-exists I think), and particularly for smaller Wikipedias that would make a lot of sense. You'd have to propose that on each wiki (not least because each wiki would probably have different choices, eg a Germanic language would probably link de.wp but an Asian one probably wouldn't). Searching across many Wikipedias at once would require maybe a toolserver tool or a MediaWiki change. Rd232 talk 13:46, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Interlanguage link
I just created the following new article: Ibn Abi al-Shukr which does not contain any interlanguage links but for some reason, I'm seeing a link to the Portuguese wiki under "Languages", which links to a template not an article. Please note that the new article includes the following template: Template:Islamic mathematics which has a Portuguese version. Is this a bug ? Al-Andalusi (talk) 04:29, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The iw link was outside the &lt;noinclude>s. Fixed. --Izno (talk) 04:53, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks !   Al-Andalusi (talk) 14:41, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

feed for external links
Is there a real-time(or near real time) web feed for external links added?Smallman12q (talk) 01:44, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

In edit, no tag-checking?
In my Edit-screen, I have the colored text parts (must be CSS mode). What I don't understand is, why cannot the CSS color mark uneven tags? Like, when I use, a closing   can be checked, not? (Sure, my next question will be about curled brackets, but hey - if I don't understand this one, I'll leave the subject). -DePiep (talk) 22:59, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It sounds like you're using WP:WikEd, for which you should probably ask at User talk:Cacycle/wikEd. --Izno (talk) 17:32, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Finding blocked users
Is there a way to easily check a list of users to see who in that list is (indefinitely) blocked? The scripts don't seem to fully work for me. Avicennasis |undefined @ 18:03, 27 Tamuz 5771 / 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Special:BlockList <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#5a0 -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#5a0 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> gossip 18:05, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Unless I'm missing something, I can only search one user at a time with that. I'm looking to check some rather large lists of users. Avicennasis |undefined  @ 18:08, 27 Tamuz 5771 / 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * What format is your list in? There isn't any way that I know of to query a list of users and get a response on all of them.  You'd probably need a bot to do that, or an SQL query on toolserver.  I can probably help you with that if it's just a one time thing, or you can ask at WP:BOTREQ to see if someone is willing to build a tool that will allow you to do this whenever you want.  <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#5a0 -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#0a0 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> spill the beans 18:14, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Categories (and listified categories.) I'm looking for something I can run once a day. I know I could use |expiry&bklimit%20=1&bkusers=AMX%20International the API, however I'm not sure how to easily strip away the blocks with an expiration date. (I'm looking for indef blocks, specifically.) Avicennasis |undefined @ 18:23, 27 Tamuz 5771 / 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There isn't going to be a way you can format your API query so that it only returns users that are blocked with an expiry of infinity. You'd have to get the full list and then filter out any entries that don't have expiry="infinity".  If this is something you want to do on a daily basis, you'll need to request that a bot be made for it or get a database report created for it.  <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#5a0 -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#5a0 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> communicate 18:34, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It looks like you already have some bot experience. Can't you just get the full list of users and their block lengths, and then filter out the entries that don't have expiry="infinite" using a script?  <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#5a0 -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#5a0 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> gossip 18:35, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It looks like I'll have to do that. I was hoping I could take the lazy route, and that someone else would already have something like this. :-) Oh well. Avicennasis |undefined @ 18:44, 27 Tamuz 5771 / 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If you add importScript('User:Ronhjones/strikeblocked.js'); to your monobook.js (assuming you use that skin), then all blocked users names on history and talk pages are struck through. (It's not my code - I "borrowed" it from somewhere else - I think it was the Russian WP, which slowed the page loads down, hence I went for a local copy).  Ron h jones  (Talk) 19:29, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks like a version of ru:MediaWiki:Gadget-markblocked.js, which is the same as in the script I linked to above. :-) Avicennasis |undefined @ 20:08, 27 Tamuz 5771 / 29 July 2011 (UTC)

LaTeX equation problems
Today there seems to be a problem with the LaTeX equation editor. If I copy an equation as is from an article, it parses properly, as for example.
 * $$\ln n! = \sum_k \ln k \approx \int_{1}^{n}dk \ln k = n\ln n - n $$

However if I make a small change such as replacing each n (except the one in "int" of course) by an m, I obtain the message Failed to parse (unknown error). If I change back to the original equation it works again.

This is annoying because it makes it very difficult to edit equations. In this case I wanted to change all the n in this equation to m because n has another meaning in the article Entropy of mixing. Another editor told me he had similar problems (see Talk: Entropy of mixing). Can anyone help? Dirac66 (talk) 02:33, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * P.S. This is a new problem. I have made similar edits to equations before without problems. Dirac66 (talk) 02:49, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * P.P.S. I have just discovered that the problem is browser-dependent! I get a Failed to parse error with Internet Explorer (version 7.0.5730.11), but I can edit the equation correctly with Mozilla Firefox (version 3.6.3). It still should be fixed to work with any browser of course. Dirac66 (talk) 03:16, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I am able to edit the equation using IE9. If it's an option, try upgrading to IE8 (obviously I don't know if IE8 works) to see if that will serve as a workaround. --Izno (talk) 05:22, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Sounds like the problem is that you're still using internet explorer for some reason. <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#a00 -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#a00 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> gossip 18:38, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Dirac66 was using IE7 (7.0.5730.11), but I had no trouble with IE7 (7.0.5730.13). Dirac66 seems unable to reproduce the problem, and has since, so it's all sorted now. The "for some reason" may be that Dirac66 edits from work - many employers have a strict policy on which software may or may not be installed. -- Red rose64 (talk) 12:28, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Broken 'Contact us' link
The following is the message I see at the top of my watchlist:

Wikipedians of Columbus: A professor at the IUPUC is looking for Wikipedia Campus Ambassadors for the upcoming fall semester! Contact us if you are interested. [hide]

The above message returns 'The action you have requested is limited to users in the group: Users'.

The link worked, I thought on the weekend, when I replied to it for a different location, but the link does not work right now. My browser is Chrome 12.0.742.122

The symptoms and message do not appear at all for Firefox 5. It adds up to something I ought to ignore for now? --Ancheta Wis (talk) 04:24, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The watchlist message is a Geonotice from MediaWiki:Geonotice.js. The link on "Contact us" goes to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Etlib. Logged out users will see the message you quote: 'The action you have requested is limited to users in the group: Users'. Logged in users without email enabled will see the more informative message at MediaWiki:Mailnologintext: 'You must be logged in and have a valid authenticated e-mail address in your preferences to send e-mail to other users.' Perhaps the same message should be shown to logged out users if possible. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:48, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a similar message here in Bloomington, for that matter. When I clicked it, I was sent to an email-this-user for the same user, an IUB librarian.  Nyttend (talk) 17:04, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Filed 30127 for this UI experience problem. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 12:11, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

did the site-installed fonts change?
I don't get how fonts work on Wikipedia (in terms of the gritty details) -- I personally I thought it was all localside, but I had to change the font I used for an Emily Dickinson poem I was displaying on my userpage cuz the "Bell MT" font was rendering awfully -- and I tried this across several computers. The appropriate revision is here -- where the font is now a nasty bold. Funny thing is, it rendered fine a week ago, across a multitude of computers. Now it renders wrong, across a multitude of computers. Is it something site-specific? Did something happen to one of the sitewide stylesheets? elle <font color="#CC9920">vécut heureuse à jamais  (be free) 03:54, 29 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Font looks fine in that revision, despite not being the default one. The default font across the site hasn't changed from what I can see. Perhaps your computer's fonts have become corrupted? Here's a page that might be useful; I don't use Windows myself, so I wouldn't know. For Macs you'd have to clear the font cache. <font face="Verdana"><font color="#02b">Gary King (<font color="#02e">talk  · <font color="#02e">scripts ) 06:33, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There are only site installed fonts for Math and for SVG images. The rest is always client side. At least for now. In the future, we likely will have WebFonts that can be used to force specific fonts to be loaded for certain foreign languages for instance, but that is not a reality just yet. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 11:50, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Problem with Archive.org
Hello, I have a problem with the article Wario World. When I go to the link which is the reference of the game's sales (ref. 28), I go to Archive.org, on an error page ! What to do if I want the correct reference please ? MicroCitron (talk) 13:37, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Tag it as dead, that is, add a dated inside the <ref ></ref> tag, but outside of the  template, so that the last part of the ref looks like this in the wikicode:
 * 2007-01-11
 * Hopefully, somebody skilled in the art of dead link recovery will spot this and point it at a different archive which still hosts the page. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:28, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, this is done ! MicroCitron (talk) 14:37, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

String manipulation
Is there any way to strip one character off the beginning of a string, like but the opposite? That is to say, something like that would yield ello I've tried a bunch of the templates in Template:String templates see also text, but they have a lot of limitations (the string I intend to strip characters off of is a string that would include a WP user signature, so it exceeds the length limit of most of those templates, and includes characters that makes those templates upset). mw:Extension:StringFunctions looks useful but doesn't seem to be enabled on en-wiki. Any other ideas? <b class="IPA">r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 04:01, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The opinion of the developers is that if you need this stuff, 'you're doing it wrong'. These templates are rather complex and intensive and the string functions extension, will further complicate the mediawiki parser language in a way that is not desirable. In almost all cases, what is needed here instead is either a special extension or people just being less crazy in what they want to program into an encyclopedia. :D —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 12:01, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Try Str right -- WOSlinker (talk) 12:05, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * To substring with special characters (in signatures), try Template:Strr, but it stops at 100 characters, so we need a longer version. Also, consider if chopping a tail-substring is really needed. Meanwhile:
 * Using:
 * Gives:
 * The processing in {strr} is very complex and intensive, whereas a left-side substring is almost instaneous (perhaps 1,000x faster): {&#123;str_left|HITHERE|2}} &rarr; HI. However, if the truncation is done only rarely, then being "1,000x" slower is okay, just avoid using it zillions of times. Note, those templates, used to format source footnotes, are currently 1,500x slower than using 1 instance of Template:Convert (yes, one thousand five hundred times slower! ...because they use 523 parameters). So, there are some much bigger problems to fix, about speed issues, in formatting popular articles. We need a set of {Cite_quick} templates. -Wikid77 (talk) 19:18, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the input, everyone. Yeah, I think what I was trying to do isn't going to be possible. It's not really necessary, I was just trying to find a way to have one parameter in a template do the work of two. There are other ways to handle it though. <b class="IPA">r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 20:11, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The worst thing is that Wikimedia is not clear about this. If string manipulation is undesired/bad, we could & would have read that. We are strangled by proxy through techniques. String manipulation is core to stream (PHP!) processing. Now, in earlier days, we were told: "article size doesn't matter (don't worry)". Correctly. (Article size now is limited by readability -- so on editor's side. Good). If server and version and such aspects are relevant, then why not write so? Why does TheDJ here have to write an (incomprehensible) explanation? -DePiep (talk) 20:41, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * " String manipulation is core to stream (PHP!) processing." exactly. So what that means is: learn to write mediawiki extensions to bring the logic to the backend. If you want a better unit converter/citations/notes/etc etc, people should write a proper MediaWiki extension to do that, instead of endlessly dabbing around with templates. Writing extensions is actually easier than some of the optimizations that Wikid77 has done to most of the complex templates. The hard part is getting everyone to agree on the specific stuff that the new extensions should support and getting it approved for production, but doing more trickery with templates is not the way forward. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 01:09, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for spending time on this/me: I wasn't that kind. Follow up below is quite interesting. -DePiep (talk) 21:31, 31 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Documenting the performance concerns: Part of the problem might be trying to "prove" to the readers how the string-manipulation templates, for right-side strings, create such complex operations. We would want a formal performance guideline to have the specific details. Meanwhile, Template:Strr is such a complicated set, of 12 deeply nested templates, that I, honestly, cannot say if {strr} is 1,000x, or 10,000x times slower than {str_left}. It takes some indepth mathematical analysis to prove the processing-speed warnings, to clearly state the results as being "official" to users. For Template:Citation/core, being 32kb (with 523 parameters), and used 100x times in many major articles, it took me several days to collect the impact data. I think "professional articles" (using those {cite xx} templates) contain 95% cite-template markup language. Yes, a popular article which uses those cite templates will contain 19x more cite-markup text than total actual good-article text. Reworking those {cite-xx} templates might reduce the overhead in WP by 75% less, to 25% of the former processing used to reformat popular articles, but such performance concerns might be overshadowed by other elephant-in-the-room concerns, instead. My attempts to "talk about efficiency" have been severely criticized with "WP:Don't worry about performance" so that is another reason few of us "even dare speak" about the processing-speed. Improving the performance takes all of us working together, as efficiency experts, typesetters, editors, developers, and others. -Wikid77 22:54, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think we should start worrying about performance when the performance becomes worrying, and that is certainly the case with the cite templates, which form such a large part of the parsing and HTML output for high-quality articles. We should either get a MediaWiki extension to handle this, or optimize the templates. Ucucha 23:08, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * When I use these kinds of templates, and I am editing large numbers of articles over at Wiktionary, I use subst to avoid permanently transcluding them into articles, greatly reducing loads on servers. Heyzeuss (talk) 03:26, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There is a discussion about converting cite templates archived at Bot_requests/Archive_42. Rd232 talk 21:42, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Converting what into what? These are bots, you know. -DePiep (talk) 21:47, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Wikid77 is (I met them before here at VP/T) is the smartest editor not yet employed by wikimedia.org/office. Now why is wikimedia.org not present here? We communicate through bugreports? Why do I get the impression that impressive editors like TheDJ knows much more that they write here? As TheDJ writes above (my words): "Just write extension[-code], it is wanted. The only problem is agreement & getting it into production". Yeah. Like peace in Israel/Palestine. -DePiep (talk) 21:57, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

HotCats suggestion
Hi all - apologies if this is the wrong place to ask this (it's been a while since I visited VP... this may be a bugZilla thing) With the Search function, if you search for a nonexistent article (say you've mis-spelt what you're looking for), then a message will pop up saying "we don't have an article of that name, do you mean Foo?" Is a similar sort of feature possible with hotcats, so that if you accidentally mis-spell a category name it doesn't automatically save your mistake? Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  11:23, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Return key in Edit summary box
Currently if you hit the "return" key while typing an edit summary, the software pretends you have hit the "save page" button. Is there a way to turn this off? This isn't the first time I've saved a duff edit summary while trying to hit the "backspace" key. (Windows, Firefox 4.0.1, Vector skin). -- John of Reading (talk) 13:23, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You have mentioned something I consider a small annoyance, mentally filed away as 'don't do that' and had not thought about again until your note. I wonder how many other things of this ilk consume my brainpower? Probably more than 10 and less than 100. Upon reflection, I find that my mental note is "always hit the 'preview' button" rather than a negative 'don't do that'. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 14:08, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe that it's the default behaviour in a web page form that the "return" key means "finished entering all items". I suppose it may be possible to disable it for this specific entry item on a per-user basis, by writing some CSS that produces special behaviour for . I wouldn't want to try though; nor would I like it to be disabled for all users. I find it very convenient - type in the edit summary and hit Return. All done. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:55, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I'm only hoping for some magic I can put in my Vector.js. I'm a cautious editor and like to preview my edit summaries, especially if I'm trying to include wikilinks. -- John of Reading (talk) 15:17, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * In which case  should do the trick. I haven't tried it though. - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 16:41, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Excellent, that seems to work fine! -- John of Reading (talk) 16:55, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

PROD where previous AfD was a different subject
I have just PRODded The Hate List. There was a previous AfD on an article with this title, but it was about a different subject - a film, whereas this is about a book. Is there any way to stop the PROD template displaying the warning about the previous AfD? JohnCD (talk) 16:09, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Problem avoided, because it turned out the book's title was different ("Hate List" without "The"); but I'd be interested to know if there is an answer. JohnCD (talk) 20:53, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Proposed deletion/dated is coded with  to always display the warning if there is an AfD for the pagename. You could suggest an optional parameter to omit the warning at Template talk:Proposed deletion/dated, but it is probably a rare problem and if there was an option to omit the warning then it might be used inappropriately in some cases. By the way, the AfD was for an alleged upcoming film based on the book (still no sign of the film actually coming). PrimeHunter (talk) 03:16, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

How to tell if a page is transcluded by another page
Is there any easy way (e.g., a parser function or some such, which could be used for conditional expressions) to tell whether a page is transcluded by another page? What I have in mind is something along the lines of I thought AfD had a category like this, but I can't find it right now (and I don't remember if it was populated by a bot or what). <b class="IPA">r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 21:46, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * IF this page is transcluded by the page I'm interested in, THEN do nothing
 * ELSE add
 * . Ucucha 00:56, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks; that is useful. However, I don't think it will work for what I'm trying to do; sorry I wasn't specific enough in my previous post. The pages I'm thinking about are not templates but subpages of Template talk:Did you know, which are both transcluded on a main page but also used by themselves (hence my comparison to AfD pages); what I'm trying to do is get them to show up in the category if no one has transcluded them onto T:TDYK yet. In your code, the the transcluded version of it (e.g., what you see when you open T:TDYK) will trigger the ELSE (e.g., if the ELSE is to add a category, T:TDYK will be what's added to the category), whereas the non-transcluded version (what you see when you open the subpage directly) will trigger the THEN.
 * I guess what I need is something that tests whether the main page it's meant to be transcluded on (T:TDYK) includes the text, and if it doesn't, puts   onto the subpage. Sounds like it's not likely to be possible, but i figured it wouldn't hurt to ask... <b class="IPA">r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 01:11, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry for misunderstanding you; I agree that what you're asking for is probably not possible just using templates. I think the best way forward would be to have a bot detect new T:TDYK subpages and put them on T:TDYK automatically. I believe does something similar on AFD. Ucucha 01:15, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It looks like DumbBOT is what I was looking for earlier and couldn't find. <b class="IPA">r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 01:33, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

js to add watchlist pages
I currently have in my monobook.js a link to User:R3m0t/handywatch.js to add pages listed at Special:unwatchedpages to my watchlist. I would like to add all the RfD daily log pages to my watchlist (Redirects for discussion/Log).

If I placed a copy of R3m0t's script as User:Thryduulf/rfdlogwatch.js and changed the line  to use the url , and then included a link to this script from my monobook.js (I use the monobook skin), would it do what I want? If not what would work? (I'm no programmer, so please don't get too technical)

Sorry if this isn't the place to ask, but R3m0t appears to be inactive currently. Thryduulf (talk) 12:46, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I was under the impression that Special:Unwatchedpages did not exists due to WP:BEANS issues. It seems to me that this is the last list we would want available for anyone with less than noble intentions to get their hands on... --<b style="color:Navy;">Jezebel's</b> Ponyo <sup style="color:Navy;">bons mots 19:58, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Its not beans, Special:Unwatchedpages is only available to sysops. ΔT <sup style="color:darkred;">The only constant 20:08, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah ha, well that would explain why I am now able to view it. --<b style="color:Navy;">Jezebel's</b> Ponyo <sup style="color:Navy;">bons mots 20:11, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

While the above might be interesting, it doesn't answer the question! Is there a way to do what I want to do? Thryduulf (talk) 11:29, 31 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Why don't you just try it, possibly on an alternative account, so that you don't fill your watchlist with garbage if there's some error? There are few more changes necessary, the code at User:SvickTest/vector.js should work. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 21:48, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Being redirected to mobile
Recently, when I clicked my watchlist and contribs links, they redirected me to the mobile site, and the disable mobile site function and view on regular wikipedia functions failed. I believe this is a server bug.Jasper Deng (talk) 19:45, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I also got this bug, although it seems to have passed now. Monchoman45 19:56, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I was also getting this. --Kumioko (talk) 20:01, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Were on this. This was due to single box squid testing that we were doing with the operations team. Its has now been disabled while we fix the redirect. When we got back up .. we'll make sure to have a feedback page in place so that we can lets people know what UA's are still getting caught. Tfinc (talk) 21:22, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Just as background ... these changes are meant to fix https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24859. Come join us on #wikimedia-mobile if you have any questions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tfinc (talk • contribs) 21:24, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I got a weird-looking screen while editing and copied and pasted to an email but it looked perfectly normal in the email. I do remember a "disable mobile site" button.<font color="Green">Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 21:47, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm having his issue too, on an intermitent basis! Dric dolphin (talk) 21:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If you haven't yet .. please let us know what browser your using and we'll get it fixed. Tfinc (talk) 03:16, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm using Firefox, v 3.0.15. I'm still having the issue... on my IE 6.0 the site is showing properly. Dric dolphin (talk) 18:01, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Outstanding accessibility fix
Could we get some eyeballs on this long-standing accessibility bug, for which a simple fix has been described? Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 10:57, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It looks like this change was applied but then recently. Ucucha 11:16, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I'd missed that. I've restored the fix, with a link to the discussion in my edit summary. Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 11:35, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Interesting to see how you simply keep repeating every controversial thing you propose every 3 months, until you get your way. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 16:35, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Allow me to repeat this: WP:NPA. Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 17:25, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

This looks like a three-year, two-editor campaign that was opposed at every discussion except for the last silent one. It could use more visibility at a highly watched page like one of the village pumps. — Bility (talk) 23:14, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Right-to-left text
I'm reviewing Biblical Hebrew for GA status, and Wikipedia seems to have trouble when an article contains right-to-left text such as Hebrew. So, for instance, when one edits an article to say...

A Hebrew word is עֲשוֹת

...it is shown as...

A Hebrew word is עֲשוֹת

...which to me looks like: A Hebrew word is עֲשוֹת[1] Is that what everyone else sees? Is there a fix for this? All the best, – Quadell (talk) 16:42, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I may be wrong, but I think that this behaviour is browser-dependent. Which operating system and browser are you using? -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:46, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It also puts the full stop in the wrong place, ie. to the left of the word, on Firefox 5. Big  Dom  17:00, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The process is called BiDi. It basically does a best-effort of integrating rtl into ltr (or vice versa) and the implementation are rather OS dependent unfortunately. Using lang gives the algorithm more hints on how to order the text elements. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 22:06, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


 * After a bit of experimentation...

A Hebrew word is עֲשוֹת A Hebrew word is עֲשוֹת


 * ...which seems to fix it for me. -- John of Reading (talk) 17:03, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much! That fixes it for me as well. – Quadell (talk) 18:05, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That template inserts an explicit left-to-right mark at the end of the RTL text. You can also just add one directly:

A Hebrew word is עֲשוֹת&amp;lrm; A Hebrew word is עֲשוֹת&lrm;


 * Algebraist 22:32, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Mediawiki search engine confused by spaces in prefixes
It appears that search handles prefix queries differently for "prefix:A_B" vice "prefix:A B". Is there some justification for this behaviour, or is it just a bug? e.g. LeadSongDog  come howl!  16:46, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems to only affect searches which use "prefix:". The prefix allows you to filter your search by only showing pages whose titles start with the prefix string.  However, since the prefix is always specifically applied to page titles, and since page titles can't include the _ character, I think it is reasonable to say that it should be smart enough to filter out the underscores and replace them with spaces.  <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#a00 -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#0a0 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> chat 18:13, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That's about what I thought. Thank you for confirming in isn't just local weirdness with my browser.LeadSongDog come howl!  18:30, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Filed as 30125. Remember, issues that are not reported in bugzilla are guarenteed to not get fixed. Bugzilla might not be ideal, but it is the one central place where bugs and feature requests are tracked. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 11:47, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed, and thanks for filing it. But I'm sure you'll agree there's value in prior discussion to reduce the number of unnecessary or incorrect bugs... :) Rd232 talk 23:12, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, thank you. It gets stranger. Although  is equivalent to   as one might expect,   is not equivalent to  . Howz 'bout them apples? LeadSongDog  come howl!  22:04, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Contribution search tools
I have recently created two toolserver tools which I believe could be useful for searching through page histories and contribution histories. I'm looking for comments on whether these tools would be helpful to add to the "External Tools" area on the History page and the "User info" pane at the bottom of a user's Special:Contributions page. Here are some links and a brief explanation of how the tools work: Any comments or suggestions are appreciated. I created these tools only a few days ago, so I'm sure they still have some bugs to work out, and could use some visual improvements. <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#5a0 -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#00a 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> confabulate 23:23, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * User contribution search - Searches through a page's history for edits by a particular user. In other words, it filters a history page by user.
 * Edit summary search - Searches through a user's edit summaries by keyword.
 * Only for en wiki? Would be great if its extended. I like the edit summary tool especially. Srikanth (Logic)  00:53, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Those seem pretty useful. Could you strip trailing spaces and make the page name box wider? (Also, check the spelling of the page title on the results page :) where it also says "max pages" instead of "max edits" ) Rd232 talk 01:14, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes! Thank you. The things I would suggest are to display the number of matches and to disable the "next X results" link if there are no more results. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 01:17, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Much easier than playing with the API. :-) I like it. Great work! <sup style="color:red;">Avic <sub style="color:blue;">ennasis  @ 01:38, 28 Tamuz 5771 / 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * All good suggestions. I will see what I can do to implement them.  Thanks!  <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#5a0 -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#a00 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> prattle 05:57, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The idea of copyright cleanup assistance from the first one alone makes me all starry-eyed. :D --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 19:55, 1 August 2011 (UTC) (but really speaking as User:Moonriddengirl)
 * Bugs? Active SQL injection (try anything with a double quote), XSS attacks, stored XSS attacks, hard-coded namespaces, confusing number and strings, incorrect Unicode support and problem when using the new HTTPS (but that new so I can't blame you).  Read Tool considerations and contact me on IRC for assistance in fixing these problems.  — Dispenser 11:55, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I've corrected many problems, many of which were fixed with the help of Dispenser (thanks for that!). The tools are now much more secure and handle bad inputs more gracefully.  It also now strips trailing spaces and the page name box is wider.  It displays the number of matches (for the user contribution search only, not practical for the edit summary search) and it also disables the "next X results" if there are no more results.  It does not yet support wikis other than en-wiki, but I believe I understand the path to adding that functionality.  I'll keep updating and let you know.  In the meantime, feel free to inform me of any other bugs/suggestions.  Also, does anyone know the most appropriate way to propose that a link to this tool gets added to the History page and Special:Contributions page (once it's ready for prime time)?  <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#00a -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#0a0 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> squeal 00:07, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * For the history page, that would be MediaWiki talk:Histlegend. If you mean the box on the bottom of contribs page, that should be discussed at MediaWiki talk:Sp-contributions-footer. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 20:54, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. <b style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 0.4em,#5a0 -0.2em -0.2em 0.4em,#5a0 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;color:#ddd">&mdash;SW&mdash;</b> confabulate 23:31, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

template substitution fail
It looks like a lot of the user warning templates are failing to substitute to a category. I noticed it when I left this template, but it seems to be on other templates (like spam1). I removed one here. What's going on? tedder (talk) 16:01, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


 * If you are referring to  then it is not a template. It is a magic word and it is supposed to still be in the source after substitution of a template which uses it. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:15, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


 * subst: substitutes only the template itself, not any other templates used by that template. Ucucha 16:19, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


 * If your problem is that you don't see the category then you have to enable "Show hidden categories" at Special:Preferences. If you mean something else then please clarify. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:21, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * To be exact, your category removal was, and was incorrect because is intended to list pages in User talk: space onto which  has been placed (whether by transclusion or substitution). -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:43, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks all. There was a newline type issue which I assumed was caused by the magic word, and since I didn't see the categories it backed up my suspicion. Obviously I was incorrect. In that case, what happened to the break between warnings here? tedder (talk) 17:12, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Something weird - looks like the parser's not respecting whitespace between the category definition and the image definition. If this is a permanent problem, it's no doubt covered by some bug report at bugzilla.--Kotniski (talk) 19:51, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

It also applies to a wikilink after a category and whitespace. This sentence is before a category.

This sentence is after two blank lines but it's displayed on the same line with no space after the preceding text. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:23, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * So why doesn't it happen every time a uw- type template is placed on a userpage? tedder (talk) 21:40, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It only happens if the category is placed at the end. In your example it was from Template:Huggle/warn-spam-1 in the previous edit. The whole Huggle/warn-spam series places the category at the end. The other templates I have examined don't do it. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:11, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, not all uw- type templates have categorisation. For example, does, but  doesn't. You will probably get an explanation of why only some of these have categories by asking at WT:UW. -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:16, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

IE8 on Win7 not showing some images?
I'm hoping to find someone who knows more about images than me:

Two (out of two) users running IE8 on Win7 report that a specific jpg isn't loading for them. Three (out of three, including myself) folks running other systems seem to have no trouble. The current discussion thread is at Village pump (miscellaneous).

If some image-savvy folks could please take a look and comment there, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:33, 2 August 2011 (UTC)


 * This has been resolved. The image in question used the CMYK color space, which IE8 cannot display. sRGB version has been uploaded. – ukexpat (talk) 17:29, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

rangeblock / individual block notification issue
Both User:202.156.13.11 and User:202.156.13.226 are under a rangeblock that can be seen here but not here or here, which shows that they are "blocked" but lists the "latest entry" as an unblocking that I gave almost a month ago. What gives? Is this a bug? The rangeblock was not issued by me. <font color="#20A7E4">elle <font color="#d45477">vécut heureuse <font color="D4D922">à jamais  (be free) 20:14, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Weird edit mode behavior
In the past, when using the Wikimedia editor to edit a page, I was able to insert the degree symbol using my Windows 7 laptop by holding down the alt key and typing 0176 on the numeric keypad. But today I get part way through and I jump back to some page in my edit history. Alt-0176 still works in WordPad today. What changed? Jc3s5h (talk) 15:17, 3 August 2011 (UTC)


 * You recently installed User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.js in User:Jc3s5h/vector.js. That may be related. If you recently enabled wikEd in your Gadgets, then that's a more likely cause. Gary King  ( talk  ·  scripts )  16:51, 3 August 2011 (UTC)


 * This is probably a general feature of the browser and not related to Wikipedia. Try enabling Num Lock. Alt code says: "If Num Lock is disabled, attempting an Alt code may cause unexpected results in some applications. For example, Alt+4 can be taken as Alt+Left Arrow, causing a web browser to go back one page." PrimeHunter (talk) 21:48, 3 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks, it is a more-or-less general feature of the browser. I tried it on an entirely different website, and it was sensitive to numlock being active. Jc3s5h (talk) 22:05, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit screen oddness
Hi. Can someone look into the issues described at WT:Files for upload? It seems it wasn't limited to just me. I've also just checked on Win7 FF5 and Chrome and it's doing the same thing regardless of being logged in or not. Killiondude (talk) 19:30, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Huggle experiment
Hi everyone. I just wanted to post a notice on-wiki about a short experiment the WMF Community Dept. is running with the cooperation of Huggle developers.

This is a project of the Summer of Research team at the WMF. The quick explanation: for a few days we’re trying an experiment where we test level 1 warning templates that are explicitly more personalized and set out to teach new editors more directly, rather than simply pointing them to policy and asking them not to do something. (We based the new content partially on the experience of people who've done lots of vandalfighting on the team, as well as the work of our researcher who is a professor of rhetoric and composition.)

In order to get a statistically significant sample size, we’re using a randomized template generator through Huggle to apply one of eight templates. All of them can be seen here, but the rundown is that set is A/B testing the standard level 1 warnings compared to three variants:


 * 1) Instructional messages (that teach the new editor a little about the community and what to do going forward to improve their editing)
 * 2) Personalized messages (that introduce who reverted them, why, and what they should do to improve their editing or get answers to questions)
 * 3) All the templates with or without images (because we don't know what effect they have)

The templates are applied randomly and seamlessly through Huggle; people using the tool to revert and warn will not notice a difference at all. (We did a pre-test with an active Huggler to try them out initially.)

It’s only going to run for a few days (starting tomorrow if all goes as planned), since at full steam that’s enough Huggling for us to get a proper sample size. Then we’ll revert back to the standard Huggle templates and analyze the data to see if the people warned with the new templates were comparatively less likely to keep making mistakes and instead actually do constructive things like leave edit summaries and use the Sandbox.

Please let me know if you have any questions about the test, the templates themselves, or how to replicate it in other areas warning templates are used. If you want to try the same style of alternative warning styles in other areas outside Huggle, give a shout and the research team is happy to help. If you want to opt out for the few days of the test, you can add the following to Special:MyPage/huggle.css: <tt> warning1:$1 </tt>

Thanks, <font style="font-family:Palatino, Georgia, serif;">Steven Walling at work 00:12, 19 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Should a template similar to z1 be added to the warnings, so we can track how many warnings were delivered? -- <font color="#BA0000">Σ <font color="#036">talk<sub style="margin-left:-3.5ex"><font color="#036">contribs   05:46, 19 July 2011 (UTC)


 * That is a great suggestion. We were working on a different tracking system, but now also have:
 * z49 → Uw-vandal-rand1 case 0
 * z50 → Uw-vandal-rand1 case 1
 * z51 → Uw-vandal-rand1 case 2
 * z52 → Uw-vandal-rand1 case 3
 * z53 → Uw-vandal-rand1 case 4
 * z54 → Uw-vandal-rand1 case 5
 * z55 → Uw-vandal-rand1 case 6
 * z56 → Uw-vandal-rand1 case 7
 * Thanks again Σ. :) I'll make sure that the list of users is readily available on-wiki so anyone else interested can take a look at the effect they had. <font style="font-family:Palatino, Georgia, serif;">Steven Walling at work 17:51, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * This template needs some debugging. For starters, I don't think you can nest "includeonly" tags inside "includeonly" tags; but there seem to be other problems as well. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:19, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Stu seems to have fixed the includeonly problem. If there are other specific ones, let us know. <font style="font-family:Palatino, Georgia, serif;">Steven Walling at work 18:31, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I stripped out all the interior includeonly tags and replaced them with noincludes that split up the subst functions, but that didn't work out. We did test the version of the template that had multiple nested includeonly tags, and it worked.  Were there any other problems? StuGeiger (talk) 18:34, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks like I was fooled by the mess at the foot of Template:Uw-vandal-rand1. It all seems to work if you subst it. -- John of Reading (talk) 20:03, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've removed the inner includeonly tags, but did not replace them with noinclude tags. This should work fine. — mc10 ( t / c ) 02:48, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, the attempt to be less bitey seems to have failed on this user. Oh well. -- <font color="#BA0000">Σ <font color="#036">talk<sub style="margin-left:-3.5ex"><font color="#036">contribs   01:05, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Heh, that user seems like a lost cause, at least for a few more years. :) I do think his response points to an interesting challenge -- making these templates more personal could also increase the risk that patrollers will be personally called out and attacked.--Eloquence* 08:01, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Stu Huggled a bit with these templates before we set up the test to try and get a feel for it. Turns out that out of ~25: he got one incident of vandalism directed at his userpage, but that resulted from the standard level 1 warning. :) From the friendly template, he got an incident where a good faith editor (who probably otherwise would've been blocked for violating WP:NFCC) asked him a question and managed to upload a file to Commons in their first few edits. Anyway, we'll definitely have to see at the end of the test whether there is statistically significant increase in personally-directed vandalism. <font style="font-family:Palatino, Georgia, serif;">Steven Walling at work 16:55, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks, this is badly needed. Actually, I wish there were a way to ensure that I always used the friendlier templates, since the harshness of many Huggle templates puts me off to using them. Not uncommonly I'll take the time to warn in Twinkle because of that. Is this possible, or would it skew your data? causa sui (talk) 23:34, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * You can create copies of those templates in your userspace and exclude the z trackers. Except getting them into TW would be problematic, a bit. -- <font color="#BA0000">Σ <font color="#036">talk<sub style="margin-left:-3.5ex"><font color="#036">contribs   02:43, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * After this test I will probably make some customizations of revert configuration in huggle to let users choose which kind of templates they would like to use. There are users who like evil templates and there are also users who like friendly (like me, that is why I also implemented welcome templates) unfortunatelly any enforcement in the usage always ended up in huge dispute which kind is better. Petrb (talk) 06:15, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd agree that it shouldn't be enforced, and I'd be happy if there were a switch I could flip to use the nice templates. But... opt-in is a way of encouraging productive behaviors without offending anyone's sensibilities by taking away choices. Just sayin'. :-) causa sui (talk) 17:18, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Why would getting to TW problematic? New templates are easy most of the time.   EBE 123  talkContribs 19:52, 2 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I, for one, dislike the idea of these new hyper friendly templates being used as the defaults. I'd much prefer having two buttons, a red one that uses the old templates and a different color (yellow maybe, I know the huggle icon comes in a dozen colors) that delivers the new ones. The reason for this is that there are multiple types of vandalism. Not counting the innocent mistakes that end up causing trouble (when someone wrecks an infobox adding something in, I often end up reverting it manually since it's almost always a good faith attempt), I sort vandalism into two categories. There are the people that are goofing off (sticking the word "poo" into lists and other such childish nonsense), which the friendly templates would work well for, and then ther are people that are clearly and deliberately acting outside the boundaries of acceptable societal beheavior (hate speech, personal attacks, etc) where the current templates are better. Sometimes I think that Huggle is too nice; I'd love to skip straight to the level 4 warning when someone starts spewing racial epitaphs around, but there's no button that quite delivers the "If you ever say anything remotely similar to that we will block you and the IP you rode in on." message.  S ven M anguard   Wha?  02:02, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You actually can go straight to level four in situations that warrant it. There are a series of warning templates which end in -4im (e.g. ) that emphasize the point. If you go straight to level four with Huggle using the Advanced dialog, it will use these templates. Regards,  Orange Suede Sofa  (talk) 02:51, 3 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi everyone, thanks for all the comments. Just wanted to let you know that we have stopped the experiment and are starting to analyzing all the data.  On Sven's point, I think that the data seems to support giving different kinds of users friendlier/harsher templates.  From a very preliminary analysis that we've got so far, it seems that these different messages have very little effect on users who go on to get banned.  However, for other kinds of users, we're already seeing noticeable improvements using a crude metric of retention.  Next week, we will be qualitatively analyzing and categorizing the contributions of each of the users who received these messages both before and after, to better break out the effects of these templates on different kinds of new users.  We will be sure to keep everyone in the loop!  StuGeiger (talk) 21:49, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

"v-d-e" into "maintenance" or "m"
Now that we've grown up, should not the "v-d-e" be simplified into "maintenance" (or similar: "m"). It should link to the template page, and from there everything is the same. -DePiep (talk) 20:45, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I propose to replace the template (navbar) "v-d-e" linking set with "maintenance" (or "m", or ...). It would have the "v"-link effect. ( added later here for clarity, -DePiep (talk) 23:47, 23 July 2011 (UTC) )
 * You seem to be under the impression that v-d-e were added so that we could fill out pages. Is that correct? I was under the impression they are for convenience&hellip; --Izno (talk) 20:49, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't get your meaning of "fill out pages". For us at VPT & technically minded, it is ok this way. But we write for readers and other editors, and they might think different. (Again, what is "fill out pages"?) -DePiep (talk) 21:10, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * What is the issue? Has a problem been reported? ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 21:47, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I personally oppose the VPT suggestion. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 22:23, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The v-d-e links seem fine to me? They are for convenience for technically savvy editors. The links are small enough so as to not be distracting, and people would typically only click on them when they already know what they are since they don't provide much context. Gary King  ( talk  ·  scripts )  22:07, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Gadget850: No, there is no problem. I think it would be an improvement. After all, the main page has tabs for "Discussion" and "Edit", why should a template on that page have its own 3 links?
 * Gary King: "seems fine to me" -I prefer discussion, not individual experience. Of course me too knows what the v-d-e is about. I am at the tech-VP. My point is: we are not editing for our fellow techs. For a wiki-reader, the v-d-e code is strange at least. So when we techs agree (and then WP/Policy will follow ;-), let alone the view-minded WP/Misc), we can improve the Wikipages. A wikireader does need nor like these codes. And we can help him/her. -DePiep (talk) 22:28, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't follow. What's being proposed here, exactly? — <span style="font-family: Courier New, monospace ;font-style:italic">V = IR (Talk&thinsp;&bull;&thinsp;Contribs) 22:33, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * A change to the menu links in the info boxes from v-d-e to m and attendant changes to the logic of displaying the info boxes. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 22:36, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I propose to replace the template (navbar) "v-d-e" linking set with "maintenance" (or "m", or ...). It would have the "v"-link effect. -DePiep (talk) 22:42, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I sorta thought so. Please don't. At the very least, create a new "navbar" instead of changing the existing one, and switch the new in for the old where there's actually support for that. I'd oppose such a switch almost universally though, simply for the fact that the "v-d-e" links are extremely useful. Why force people to click twice (once to the page, then again to do what they actually want) when a single click gets them to where they want to go with no side effects? I don't understand what the problem with the "v-d-e" links are. — <span style="font-family: Courier New, monospace ;font-style:italic">V = IR (Talk&thinsp;&bull;&thinsp;Contribs) 23:19, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what the problem[s] ... are. Neither do I. Who said there was a problem? (please).
 * Ohms law: by alternative template(-switch) would be nice. My main point is that not every link needs a three-way link. (Hey, why not add "h" for history too? And, why not three links somehow for every wikilink? -- right, there is a reason for that). Of course every savvy editor wants to go to the "Edit" page right away. But how many are they, compared to the unsavvy editor, and more relevant: compared to number of readers? The v-d-e buttons are there for our minority (tech savvy editors) only. For a reader they are confusing at least (I say intimidating). -DePiep (talk) 23:47, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, how about this: I don't understand what the motivation for this proposal is. Is the... er, "problem" that templates are being made to be too easy to edit or navigate to the talk page? — <span style="font-family: Courier New, monospace ;font-style:italic">V = IR (Talk&thinsp;&bull;&thinsp;Contribs) 00:35, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I honestly think it's just fine the way it is. I understand that it might not be the most helpful answer in the world, but I honestly don't see the benefit in switching, especially for a non-intuitive "m" for "maintenance". EVula // talk //  &#9775;  // 23:58, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think I had already been an admin for some months before I figured out how to easily access templates without copying the header and using Special:Search. I honestly wouldn't mind turning "v-d-e" into "view-discuss-edit", but that might be too much I suppose. <b style="color:navy;">NW</b> ( Talk ) 00:09, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with EVula; how would an "m" be any less confusing than "v-d-e". There's no problem with the current format. Big  Dom  08:29, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course, the "m" is not essential. It could be "T" (for template), or a symbol. What I want to introduce is: why should every template on a page have these multiple links? Hey, why not add "history" too? Those of us who know what it's about, can go ahead. The reader, most and most of our public, have no message in these details. Right in the middle of a serious page: they (and me) can do with a single "view the template" link. -DePiep (talk) 21:50, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I fail to see how a "T" or a symbol would be less confusing; it's doubly confusing, given your appeal to the needs of the reader after suggesting something even more cryptic. (and I don't think there's a history link because it's not as readily needed) What articles are you reading that there's a template "right in the middle" that has that trio of links? Every time I've seen it, it's been on a navbox at the bottom of an article. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 01:41, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * If you use the big words, then it will be intrusive. v · d · e works fine for me, and if I forget what they mean, then the mouseover display will remind me. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 03:38, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Here are some that are right in the middle. As for turning "v-d-e" into "view-discuss-edit", something very similar is very easily done: just remove the mini parameter from the and you get " &#91;  view &#32;&middot;&#32; talk &#32;&middot;&#32; edit  &#93; ". -- Red rose64 (talk) 12:12, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay; I don't think I'd ever seen that before. (but then again, I never look up English railway topics...) However, I still don't think it's an issue, or something that would be "fixed" by implementing a more cryptic alternative. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 14:00, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

How nice to turn this into "full words or abbreviations?". I maintain that a template only needs one link to that template (be it "v", "m", "t" or a symbol). From there, any editor can move further. Just as with any other link: we don't have "v-d-e" (.. history etc) links with a regular wikilink in the text, do we? -DePiep (talk) 21:16, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * How about giving a demo? The other editors indicate they are content. The prospect of a swirl of UI changes to the main implementation based on one editor's aesthetic requires consensus. It does not require consensus to implement a suggestion if you build a parallel demo. Then a thumbs up/down response to the demo. You could use the test wiki as your test platform. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 22:28, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ...and I maintain that stripping down the links to just a single letter or symbol is counter-intuitive. Suggestions that we need to change a standard practice must present a viable argument in favor of the new system; nothing personal, but I (and apparently several others) aren't convinced. The "v-d-e" links aren't particularly analogous to regular inline wikilinks, so trying that approach isn't going to work. I think Ancheta Wis' suggestion of testing it out somewhere is a good one. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 22:50, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. Additionally, as I said above, please create a new template to test this out with, and see if it gains approval. I'd hate to see most of the "v-d-e" links suddenly change. — <span style="font-family: Courier New, monospace ;font-style:italic">V = IR (Talk&thinsp;&bull;&thinsp;Contribs) 23:13, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * This sub is an inviting tone & talk, thank you. I'll get to an example. And hey, if I really wanted to trick something, would I start it here in the VP/T-home? I just wanted to check my idea head on. Now as said, thank you. More here later on. -DePiep (talk) 23:13, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * While I'm a staunch advocate of the philosophy that just because it's not broken doesn't mean it can't be made better, I fail to see how this proposed change improves the navbar in any way. <b style="color:forestgreen">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange">melon</b> 11:56, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Discovered: and  provide this feature. Being build in in navbar is deprecated (see Template:Navbar/doc. Clearly, the letter is "v" (quite reasonable). -DePiep (talk) 20:58, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Already esists

Combining parent and child templates
Does anybody have a fancy tool for combining child and parent templates (and grandparent templates)? Heyzeuss (talk) 16:12, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Could you give an example of a template relationship you are talking about? --Kumioko (talk) 16:16, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Template:Str right, which calls up more than 20 other templates. They won't let me import the template into Wiktionary, so I was thinking of rolling up the whole thing and moving it to my user space there. It's a server -expensive template, so I would only use it with subst, I promise. Heyzeuss (talk) 16:26, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Special:ExpandTemplates? Ucucha 23:37, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That was my first thought but I don't see how to use it on a template which should still be able to take input parameters. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:43, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Really the only way to do this is using Special:Export, but Special:Import is usually only usable by administrator (and for good reasons). —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 11:51, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there any quick and dirty way to take the network of templates and collapse them into one huge, grotesque stand-alone template? Heyzeuss (talk) 03:30, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You don't want to see what looks like when partially expanded... :D <b style="color:forestgreen">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange">melon</b> 12:04, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Backlog of template and interface edit requests
There are several requests waiting at Category:Wikipedia protected edit requests that involve complex templates or MediaWiki interface pages. A request was placed at WP:AN looking for administrators to help with the backlog, but just being an admin doesn't necessary make someone qualified to handle some of these requests, so I'm posting here in the hope that some who are more familiar with the coding involved will step in to help. If you know the coding but aren't an admin, you can still assist by creating a sandbox version of the requested changes so that a less-technical admin can see the results and then potentially make the change by copy/paste. Or if you believe the requested change is a bad idea, note that on the talk page under the request. Thanks to any who can assist. --RL0919 (talk) 16:56, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This is starting to become a problem indeed. I and MSGJ were doing most of these not so long ago, but I'm too busy now, and MSGJ might be on holiday or something, or is also busy IRL. We need more tech admins again I think. If anyone knows any good candidates ? —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 21:18, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've done a few, and will do a few more. Ucucha 21:38, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks to everyone who helped clear this out. --RL0919 (talk) 17:18, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Honestly thats part of the problem with edit protecting some of these templates. There have been a lot of cases were I can make the changes but since I am not an admin don't have the access. --Kumioko (talk) 17:43, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The problem with not having them protected, though, is that it is too easy to perpetrate template vandalism with unprotected, heavily-used templates. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 17:49, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thats partly true but in many cases semi protection would be sufficient IMO. --Kumioko (talk) 16:13, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Mobile View link makes some pages invalid XML
For one of my reports, I need the actual HTML of a page, so I'm reading the page as any user (not using the API) and parse it as XML. Until recently, this worked fine. But now, it fails on the page One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (novel). This is because the “Mobile View” link is rendered as This is not valid XML because of the non-encoded apostrophe in the link.

Interestingly, this only happens on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Flew_Over_the_Cuckoo's_Nest_(novel) and not when the apostrophe is percent-encoded in the URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Flew_Over_the_Cuckoo%27s_Nest_(novel). My Firefox seems to always do this encoding automatically, so don't let that confuse you if you are going to look at the source in a browser.

How could this be fixed? Should I report a bug?

Also, HTML validator reports two other errors on that page regarding empty elements, but I have no problems with them.

<tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 19:01, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The apostrophe problem is definitely a bug. A valid alternative form, not using percent-encoding, is to use double quotes instead of single:  Single and double quotes are both valid as attribute value delimiters in XML, but HTML only permits double quotes.
 * This issue is fixed, and the fix will be deployed later today. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 20:55, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks for the info and for letting the devs know. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 20:15, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It took a tad longer than I expected, but earlier today the fix was deployed and the links are now proper. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 22:43, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The two other errors are reported because somewhere there are <ul ></ul> (unordered list) tags with nothing in between: they should enclose at least one <li ></li> (list item) element. Looking at the two linked errors, these are in the page margin, soon after the words Variants and Actions, and is not anything that the article's wikicode may have generated. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:18, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This is a known issue that will probably not be fixed, because we are switching to html5 anyways. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 20:55, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is related, but take a look on these two threads on wikitech-l, about the migration to HTML5 (and the possibly breakage of XML-based screen scrapers). Helder 19:44, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

New messages notification for article talk pages
I don't know if this has come up before but I would like to suggest allowing users to see a New talk page messages for articles similar to the one for Userspace talk pages. The way things work know unless a user checks the talk page or has it on their watch list you would never know if there is a discussion or a question on an article talk page. This is part of the reason why discussions on article talk pages never get any activity and questions go unanswered, especially on the less active articles.

Again I think it would be best if it was set to the option of the user to decide wether they want to see it or not and it would probably be best if it was less obtrusive than the user talk message (Maybe just a simple New discussion in blue or something). --Kumioko (talk) 16:11, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * If the article is added to the watchlist, then the talk page is also added; see Help:Watching pages. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 18:16, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes I know but what I am saying is that if someone stops on an article thats not on the watchlist then they don't know that there is a question or something on the talk page unless they physically check the talk page. What I am suggesting is a message of somekind that could tell the user that there is a new message (within the last x days) or maybe just last message and the date...something that would tell someone reading the article that there is something on the talk page that might warrant attention. --Kumioko (talk) 18:56, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * If that were done, then some articles that always have lots of stuff going on at the talk page (e.g. Sarah Palin or something like that) would basically always have the "new messages" banner over the article. That could get annoying. <b class="IPA">r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 08:07, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * If such a message were presented, I see the following problems.
 * What would trigger the message? New questions presumably - but how would these be identified? There are talk-page postings other than questions and answers. Wikiproject banners, for instance: somebody might assess an article for class and importance, which does not require feedback from others. How would the MediaWiki software distinguish this from a new question, and so know not to trigger the message?
 * Who would it be presented to?
 * The first person to visit the page since the last change. Problem: they may be going to the talk page for a different reason and have no interest in the post that triggered the message. Others, who might be interested, wouldn't get the message.
 * Everybody who visits the page since the last change. Problem: what would deactivate the message? Replying to it would re-trigger the message. If you were to exit both the talk page and the article, then re-visit the article, you would see the same message. People would get so used to it being there that they'd ignore it.
 * Any person who has not visited the page since the last change. Problem: this would require a database logging page visits.
 * All in all I believe this to be unfeasible. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:25, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Good points, how do we trigger it now for User talk pages? How does the user talk page know that I clicked on the talk page? It does not require me to respond to make the message go away so I imagine that something in the coding senses that I read the page. True about the commonly edited talk pages but what about the 2.8 million+ other pages that don't get as much activity? This isn't much use to the commonly edited pages I admit, its very useful IMO though to the ones that don't get edited much or at all. I can only think of 2 ways to make it work. The first would be to modify the logic of adding a new discussion to flag or mark it in some way (Change the font, add an icon, make it say new message, etc.) so that it could be identified as being new. Then we could use some logic similar to how we inform the users about the class of the article. The second would have many of the same problems mentioned above and that would be to simply go by a date (last 30 days, last 10 days, maybe set by the user on their preferences, etc.). Again it would only be an optional thing so users who don't want to see it can simply turn it off or ignore it and it shouldn't be as big and bulky as the user talk page warning banner either. --Kumioko (talk) 12:51, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * For user talk pages, it's triggered by a change being made by anybody but the "owner". It's cleared by the "owner" visiting the page, whether they edit it or not. Therefore, it's a simple yes/no flag on each user talk page, which is simple to add. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:36, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Passing a "hint", as a part of an argument to template
Recently I found this possibility to pass an invisible "hint" to template. If a template receives some  (which surely might be presented on a screen), then you can pass as well something like. On a screen it would still look like, but if a template will check first 8 characters (for example, like this:  ), then it can do, whatever is defined in a section.

This functionality might be useful in situations, when that  is generated by some other template, so you are limited by returning a one and only result. By using this technique, you can return a little bit more, then just one value. --Alogrin (talk) 16:18, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * A better option than doing something as horrible as this would be to have an additional parameter to the template that returns the value. If you specify it one way, it will return the normal value, if another way, it will return the additional data. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 19:15, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * For example, User:Redrose64/constants behaves as a template; the first parameter tells it which of around 40 different return values is required. User:Redrose64/constants returns, but dyk returns . -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:12, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Nope, it would not work in a case, which this approach is trying to solve. And the case is: 1) you have some infobox; 2) you have several articles, where it is used; 3) in some of them the value is generated by some other template(s). And, you want to pass a hint from that "other template" to your infobox. Yes, you can extend the "other template" to handle an additional parameter, add a new parameter to infobox and then add in all usages of your infobox an additinal call to the "other template" with an additional parameter. But from my point of view — this will have a significant usability issue. There is a reason, why programming functions were extended from limitation of a returning one scalar value — to the possibility of returning a complicated object. Surely my suggesting is far from supporting an object, but still it provides more fuctionality, then returning a scalar value. --Alogrin (talk) 21:17, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It would help greatly if you were to state which infobox this is, which articles the problem occurs in, and which the "other" template is. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:59, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You need to modify both templates in any case, so I don't see how would this be “a significant usability issue”. And yes, it would be great to have an actual template programming language for doing this. But I think using hacks like this is not the solution. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 23:00, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Removing the "wikilove" tab
How can I remove the "wikilove" tab that apparently was recently added to user talk space? I just glanced through Special:Preferences but didn't notice anything. (I'm using the Monobook skin, btw.) <b class="IPA">r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 08:06, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * My preferences > Editing > Labs features > [uncheck] Enable showing appreciation blahblah. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 08:17, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Alternatively, add  to Special:MyPage/common.css (haven't tested it myself though). Ucucha 11:35, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There is a check box under the editing tab that you can uncheck to make it go away. It says something like Enable Wikilove.--Kumioko (talk) 12:54, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks guys. I just hadn't scrolled down far enough to notice it :S <b class="IPA">r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 16:51, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Arabic character-entry tool
The tool which appears under the edit box to make it easier to enter Arabic characters has recently been changed to include common transliteration characters. Unfortunately, the list of transliteration characters includes ǧ, which is not part of standard English-language transcriptions of the Arabic language, and whose use to transcribe Arabic words should not be encouraged (unless perhaps in a very limited way to transcribe Egyptian-dialect forms only). I don't know where to go to specifically discuss or complain about this issue... AnonMoos (talk) 14:31, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The edit that added these characters were made about a week ago, here. The page's talk page might be the most relevant place to bring this up. Gary King  ( talk  ·  scripts )  15:41, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That would be . Suggest you ask directly. -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:43, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks all for the pointers... AnonMoos (talk) 20:52, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. I don't know if I still need to iterate that other page for this to go through. That doesn't appear in the instructions any more that I see. Tell me (on my talk) if the ǧ doesn't disappear. I'd rather not add to the edit history of global pages like that if I can help it. — kwami (talk) 00:07, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

'Times' character
Do we have a template for the 'times' character, which I can use, instead of the letter 'x', in phrases like "a 3x4m room"? I have searched, but there are too many other uses of the word "times". Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 19:11, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Can't find a template, but it is &amp;times; in HTML. See multiplication sign. Ucucha (talk) 19:43, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find it anywhere in Category:Typing-aid templates and Template:Times was free, so I created it.  now produces 3&times;4m. Alternative way to write the character is  . <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 19:51, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 20:02, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Below the Save Page/Show Preview/Show Changes buttons there is a bunch of things to click which will insert certain characters and markup. In the menu box at left of that, select either "Insert" or "Wiki markup", and "×" (multiplication) is presently 14th link along, in between "−" (subtraction) and "÷" (division); alternatively, select "Math and logic" and it's second from left. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:07, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Flag of Grenada in templates
In certain templates, the flag of Grenada is improperly displaying as the flag of Dominica. For example, look at 2008 Summer Olympics or 2014 FIFA World Cup Qualification. It appears to be displaying fine when inserted directlyas an actual image though. Why? Smartyllama (talk) 20:32, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It isn't for me, so I'm thinking it's local to you or already fixed. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 20:40, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have just purged commons:File:Flag of Grenada.svg, bypass your cache and it should be okay. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 20:56, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

SVG Maps
Forgive me, but I do not understand the point of these SVG maps. Coming from three diffent pages, including Cape Breton Island and Mira River, I followed links from maps with proper labels and red dots marking the locations in question, yet arrived in all three cases at the same generic unmarked "Canada Nova Scotia location map 2.svg" map. In other words, in all three cases I followed the links, loaded the higher-resolution images (on a dial-up connection, as I am in a very rural area), and came to maps with LESS pertinent information than the thumbnails I had started from!

Is this how the standard Wikipedia mapping system is now supposed to function? Why have a link from the thumbnail version at all? Common sense dictates that the higher-resolution image should have the same location-marking dot, and ideally the same image label, all in a higher-resolution image. That would provide MORE information.

I mean no criticism of the editors, but I do believe there is some deficiency in the new mapping system if this is what it produces.

Heavenlyblue (talk) 00:30, 27 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Heavenlyblue (talk • contribs)
 * The mapping system works by placing one image over another. It's a very useful system, because it doesn't require a separate file for each location of the dot. I agree though that it has the drawback you describe; I suppose it should be possible to have the image link to a larger version of the same map with the dot on it, so that you can see the location of a place more precisely. Ucucha 01:55, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * While that may be indeed useful, I'm not sure how could that be done without creating new page for every map or using a special extension for that. The only way I could imagine this could work in the short term would be using JavaScript (with the obvious disadvantage that it wouldn't work for users without JS). <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 20:54, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Creating separate bespoke maps would be an absolute nightmare. Consider Wembley Stadium railway station: in the infobox, there is a SVG map with the position of the station indicated by a red snooker ball. This is a generic map, used on over one thousand pages. Therefore, to incorporate specific markers, over 1000 different SVG maps would need to be drawn just for the Greater London area, and I am sure that, who has produced most of these generic maps, has better things to do.
 * There is a much easier alternative. Most articles which deal with a static feature will have the relevant latitude/longitude coordinates, usually at upper right. These are clickable and take you to a page listing various mapping services of greater or lesser accuracy. Some of these do add a relevant marker, some do not. Try clicking the coordinates on Wembley Stadium railway station - for convenience, here is the link: 51.5543°N, -0.2863°W Go there, and try any of the links in the "Bing Maps" rows - these all have markers; by contrast, the lnk after "Ordnance Survey Get-a-map" does not. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:54, 31 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Don't forget this person mentioned they're using dial-up. I can imagine many of those services being very frustrating if you're not on a high-speed connection. -- &oelig; &trade; 12:20, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your responses, everyone. I do still feel that my point is entirely justified.  As I pointed out in my original statement, following a link from a thumbnail to a larger (and, by implication, more detailed) image, only to find (after loading) that it contains LESS pertinent information is disappointing, and can only be described as an illogical process.  Of course, as has been pointed out, I could go outside of Wikipedia to find an entirely different map containing a similar dot marker (and a more precise label), but does this not largely negate the purpose of including maps in Wikipedia?


 * Once again, I don't intend this as criticism, but simply to point out a gap in the system where functional improvement is required. The basic mapping system is obviously well-designed and implemented and looks good.  And I do realise that there will be complexities involved in working around this problem.  But then, what is Wikipedia if not the collective effort of many hard-working, creative problem-solvers?


 * Sometimes it's a relatively short step from good to best!    Heavenlyblue (talk) 00:58, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


 * There is the OSM project (see Signpost story) is trying to get interactive maps which could be zoom in and enlarged. At the present moment they're having trouble getting the prepackaged render software and caching working correctly.  So it is turning out like many extension unable to scale for a top-10 website and far behind project goals (they were suppose to be done last year).  — Dispenser 14:57, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Creating a million locator maps (each with the dot hard coded onto the map) is not viable in terms of sheer quantity of time. I can think of two hacks that will get around the original poster's disappointment:
 * Disable the link to the map entirely, so you can't click on the thumb to get to a "more detailed" image. This is what is done with flag as the links to the flag images are pointless - a link to a base map is equally pointless. This is easy to implement as well (but may be a licensing issue).
 * Change the link, so that instead of going to the file page for the blank map, it links to a larger version of that map with the coordinates fed in - that may be possible via a JS hack and is what Svick mentioned. If it falls back to the first option, we don't supply users who cannot use JS with a useless link.
 * Incidentally, with regards to the maps that are available via the click on the globe I'm not particularly fond of their quality because of one specific problem: the choice of projection. If you compare the location map in Wembley Stadium railway station to that generated by 51.5543°N, -0.2863°W, that project looks squashed and unappealing whilst the wiki map looks "about right".--Nilfanion (talk) 16:05, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Browser de-sysopping
I just upgraded to Firefox 5.0.1, running on Mac OS 10.6.8. For some reason I have no lost some admin and rollback buttons. It is the same on Safari 5.1, but using Opera 10.10 I am still an admin. I have by passed the cache running Firefox to no avail. Any suggestions gratefully received. Ben  Mac  Dui  09:06, 6 August 2011 (UTC) PS By some mysterious mechanism Safari (which I never usually use) has decided to get up to speed on its own accord and now has the buttons. No joy with Firefox tho'. Ben  Mac  Dui  09:21, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The most obvious explanation is that you're not logged in as an admin. Otherwise, have you lost all admin tools? For example, can you edit protected pages, can you view deleted content, does it tell you that you can't block if you go to Special:Block? Ucucha (talk) 12:44, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It is not the ability to undertake actions that is absent - I just deleted a page whilst using Firefox and I can also view deleted content. However in edit mode the "[rollback (AGF)] || [rollback] || [rollback (VANDAL)]" buttons are absent and the regular page buttons of "CSD/PROD/XFD/PP/Tag/Last/Unlink/Deli-batch" don't appear either. All these buttons are visible using Opera and Safari.  Ben   Mac  Dui  13:25, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That is Twinkle, not admin buttons. Do you see any JavaScript errors? (Go to Tools > Error Console.) Ucucha (talk) 13:28, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There are no errors but various "warnings" all related to en-wiki. e.g. " Warning: Expected 'important' but found 'ie'. Expected ';' or '}' to terminate declaration but found 'ie'.  Declaration dropped. Source File: http://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules....."  Ben   Mac  Dui  14:05, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Those are harmless. I'm not sure what is going wrong; I'm also running FF 5.0.1 and Twinkle works fine. Perhaps someone at WT:TWINKLE can help you. Ucucha (talk) 19:44, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I will try there - thanks for your help. Ben   Mac  Dui  09:05, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Change red link to green
I would like red links to show up green for me, but everything else remain the same. I did a search here and found some articles that were close, but none were detailed enough to get me just what I want. If someone could help me I would appreciate it. TIA.

Interesting that it didn't let me use the help me template here. Donpayette (talk) 16:24, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Take a look at my stylesheet and see if it works for you. Note that I intend to revert my latest change later today so use this link first if you don't find what you are looking for. — Allen4names 16:49, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Most of the stuff in that file is irrelevant. All that you should need to do is to amend either your Special:MyPage/skin.css or your Special:MyPage/common.css to incorporate the following two additional lines:

/* Use green for 'red links'. */ a.new { color: green; }
 * See also Link color. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:41, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

How to detect Internet Explorer 6
Hi.

There has been more than once when I wanted to create something intricate (e.g. template, user page layout, etc.) but I aborted because it didn't render well in Internet Explorer 6. Is there a way to detect Internet Explorer 6 in Wikipedia, so I could render simpler contents in that web browser? (I know a couple of ways in websites but they do not apply to Wikipedia.) Fleet Command (talk) 17:40, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * According to ResourceLoader/Default_modules, when the jQuery.client plugin is initialized it adds some classes to the html element and I think this can be used to create CSS to specific to IE 6. Helder 18:21, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I am officially confused. I cannot see how I can use it in a Wikipedia template or user page. Fleet Command (talk) 16:46, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You cannot vary the content of page text based on browser, because the content is cached and served the same way for all (not-logged-in) users. Helder is noting that you can identify browsers in CSS and JavaScript.  <b style="color:forestgreen">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange">melon</b> 17:25, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * My advice to those still using IE6: upgrade it - to something that wasn't produced by a multinational company based in Washington State. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:56, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Which one would you suggest? The one made by a multinational company based in California, the one made by a different multinational company based in California, or the one made by a multinational company based in Oslo? TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 04:29, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The second one based out of California, personally. Killiondude (talk) 04:46, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * In fairness, basically all the IE6 users left are those who can't upgrade. Mostly corporate, a few just running pretty ancient systems (e.g. in poor countries). - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 18:20, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Per, IE6 use across all projects is 107,890/2.89% for June 2011. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 18:29, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That should read 107,890,000 (2.89%); 100% ~ 3.7 billion. -DePiep (talk) 20:26, 8 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It is possible to employ "conditional CSS for IE6" (a search engine query for those words should find plenty of tutorials). We can't cater for such an obsolete browser for ever; what we should do is ensure that out pages "degrade gracefully" for people with such browsers; no doubt they are already used to seeing web pages differently to the rest of us, given that sites like Google (including YouTube) and Flickr and no longer attempt to do so.  Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 19:19, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Right, so is it possible that I show something to IE6 users of Wikipedia while hiding it from others? How about vice versa? If yes, please elaborate. (And please take note that I am talking strictly Wikipedia. On my own website, I have already implemented this but that code does not work here.) Fleet Command (talk) 00:51, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess you can try to hack the CSS/JS you will get while logged in using Special:Mypage/Vector.css / Special:Mypage/Vector.js. What happens to other people is controlled by central CSS / JS pages at MediaWiki:Common.css / MediaWiki:Vector.css etc. (and these pages are only editable by administrators, and usually only after a careful discussion at the corresponding talk pages). I haven't checked if we do employ any browser-based hacks there. For single pages, we shouldn't. —Kusma (t·c) 09:42, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... Unfortunately, that's not good enough. I wish the &lt;!--[if lt IE 7] directive worked here in Wikipedia... Fleet Command (talk) 09:47, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Why wouldn't it work? Ucucha (talk) 11:51, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Because MediaWiki does not parse it. MediaWiki only parses a small subset of HTML and this directive is not even standard HTML. I tested it. Fleet Command (talk) 20:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Ordered lists with letters
Do we have a facility to make ordered lists with letters, along the lines of this one, without using raw HTML? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 21:41, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No, the list style is controlled by the attributes of an opening tag, and these are generated by the MediaWiki software on encountering a hash at the start of the line. If you really do need ordered lists of other styles, you need to supply your own, and since this will be ignored unless you also supply the <li ></li> elements, the HTML to be used is:
 * <li >First item</li>
 * <li >Second item</li>
 * which produces:
 * which produces:
 * which produces:

<li>First item</li> <li>Second item</li> </ol>
 * -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:11, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * And to avoid the use of deprecated HTML attributes (such as type), you should use CSS:


 * Helder 17:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Overhaul request for Template:Archive list long
Further to WP:Village pump (technical)/Archive 91, we're now at 45 of the current 48 max. --Trevj (talk) 14:10, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * WP talk:MOS is at 125. archive list claims to get to 200. What's the hold-up on fixing long to get to a decent number? — LlywelynII  03:02, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Deferred message?
Is there a way to add a message to a talk page which doesn't appear until a specified date? I will be taking a wikibreak, and may not have internet access. While I could leave the message just before I leave, it will be hectic, and there's a chance I will forget. The ideal solution would be to post a message now, which doesn't appear until 16 August. Is this possible?-- SPhilbrick  T  14:35, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. You can use  Chzz  ►  15:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, perfect.-- SPhilbrick  T  15:54, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Group edit notices
I'm trying to make an edit notice that shows up on all of the following pages:
 * Template talk:Did you know/Daily log/2011 August 8
 * Template talk:Did you know/Daily log/2011 August 9
 * Template talk:Did you know/Daily log/2011 August 10
 * etc...

But not on these pages:
 * Template talk:Did you know/Skin cancer in horses
 * Template talk:Did you know/Spigelia gentianoides
 * etc...

I created Template:Editnotices/Group/ Template talk:Did you know/Daily log, but it doesn't seem to work; I guess it doesn't allow the "root page" (the underlined part) to be a subpage. Does anyone know any solutions for this (preferably without rearranging all of these pages&mdash;that is to say, without doing something like moving all those "daily log" pages to e.g. Template talk:Did you know daily log/2011 August 8, which would solve the problem but might be a bit of a pain)?

Thanks, <b class="IPA">r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 17:02, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd like to tell you, but I can't. I think you answered all your questions yourself :( —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 17:55, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, no worries, I figured it might be impossible. I went ahead and did the annoying but simple solution instead :) <b class="IPA">r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 21:53, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Is this a bug?
When I try search this page, I can't do so, because I get this message: "We're sorry...

... but your computer or network may be sending automated queries. To protect our users, we can't process your request right now. See Google Help for more information." (copied-pasted). Also I can't upload a picture, taken by my own photoapparatus, from which I uploaded hundreds pictures till 2011-08-08 a.m. Is this a bug? --Kusurija (talk) 19:34, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * If you searched Google and got that message, you should ask Google, not here. Regarding the uploads: could you describe what exactly happens? Do you get some error message? <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 22:02, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You were probably using the old link http://www.google.com/custom?sa=Google+Search&domains=wikipedia.org&sitesearch=wikipedia.org - try http://www.google.com/search?sa=Google+Search&domains=wikipedia.org&sitesearch=wikipedia.org instead (they changed it a few weeks ago). -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:10, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Template:CTableEnd
On this old version of WikiProject Disambiguation#Participants, I've noticed a bug with Template:CTableEnd. The template seems to hide the section header ==External watchlist== from view. When I put

after CTableEnd, then the section head did display, see: the current page. Could someone figure out why Template:CTableEnd is causing the section header to be hidden on the immediately following section? Thanks much, --Funandtrvl (talk) 18:41, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It looks like the combination of width=100% and align=left in the collapsible table causes the table to eat the succeeding h2, at least in Firefox and Chrome. Possibly the clear should be added to CTableEnd, but it may not be appropriate in all uses of the template. Ucucha (talk) 18:55, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's happening in IE9 also. I don't know enough about the coding to say if adding "clear" would be the right solution. Maybe it needs a div or break at the end? --Funandtrvl (talk) 19:00, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Its due to the "align:left;" it makes the table float left, but it is also fullwidth, causing the header to be "hidden" to the right of the table. Removing the "align=left" from CTableStart fixes the problem. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 18:23, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for everyone's help, I removed "left" from table-align, and I think that worked. --Funandtrvl (talk) 21:47, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Set an upper limit for the rendering resolution of uploaded images
Is it possible to set an upper bound for available sizes an .svg image is rendered as PNG? The concrete example in question is. While I think the resolution of 500px is fine to illustrate the intricate details in the image, having this image rendered at a resolution of 2000px is not needed in my opinion and is a violation of WP:NFC Policy 3 b. Is it possible to restrict the rendering choices for the file to a maximum of 500px and if so, how can I do this? Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 12:42, 8 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It's not possible to 'code' a size limitation into an SVG, because it is just made up of shapes; hence, if the svg is available to display, anyone could download it and display/use it at any resolution they wanted. Consider e.g. "a red circle with a blue diagonal line across the middle, and a yellow circle half the size of the red one" - that's the type of information that the encoded content of an SVG describes. The question "how big is it" cannot be answered.


 * We could stop mediawiki from having the 'display at 2000px' option, but that isn't really solving anything. It's the way an SVG works; it doesn't have a 'size' - just shapes, which can be displayed at any res you wish.  Chzz  ► 13:31, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed, the "S" in SVG stands for "scalable". SVG images may be defined to have a "default" size, but this is not enforced. For example, the icons like BSicon BHF.svg found on many railway route diagrams are "defined" as 500px by 500px, but are never shown that big, typically they are 20px x 20px. This particular file contains code that essentially means "on a 500x500 grid, move to point 250,0 and draw a vertical red line 500 high and 100 thick; then draw a red disc centred at 250,250 of radius 150". The "sizing" within the SVG file itself is merely so that the shapes may be described in terms other than percentage. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:24, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Limiting the rendering resolution would also have to restricted to non-free content, or to individual files. Several SVG maps (File:Arctic.svg, for example) benefit from the large rendering options. MKFI (talk) 11:02, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

WHOIS on toolserver not working?
I keep getting a 404 Page Not Found error when doing a WHOIS from the link on an IP contributions page, see. Is it me or is it the toolserver, or is it this specific tool? Anyone know and/or can fix this? Thanks! -- Jayron  32  18:18, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have had problems with every toolserver tool I've tried to use today, (dab solver, DAB Challenge bonus list, most bonus list links, etc.)--JustAGal (talk) 19:09, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There were reports about toolserver being down earlier today on the toolserver mailing list, but it seems to be okay now. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 22:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It appears there are some issues with the toolserver, but I'm not an expert. - Hydroxonium (T•C• V ) 04:16, 9 August 2011 (UTC
 * The toolserver is making the tool work incorrectly. Me I need the toolserver WHOIS for Abuse response, but I can use others.   Ebe 123  talkContribs 11:54, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Diff triggers download
I have been running into this problem for quite some time. Every time I want to compare two revisions in a history page, I see a prompt saying index.php is to be downloaded. Whether I use IE 9, Firefox 5, Safari 5 on native Windows 7 or Firefox 5 on a VirtualBox'ed Ubuntu 11.4 the symptom is the same. The issue seems to be unique to the English Wikipedia. I have tried diff'ing on the Chinese, Japanese and Spanish Wikipedias, and the diff pages show up as expected. Any help? Kxx (talk &#124; contribs) 16:40, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Do you have "Use external diff by default" checked in the Editing tab of your preferences? — Bility (talk) 16:49, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've had this issue before. I believe it happened to me when my connection was not functioning properly. Does it act like it's going to take a long time to load the page then it just opens a download dialogue box? IIRC, that's how it did it to me. Killiondude (talk) 16:57, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This also happens fairly frequently to me in the way Killiondude describes; it's when there's a slowness on either my or Wikipedia's side. Ucucha (talk) 18:17, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Same here. Usually it happens when the server kittens are on strike. Tito xd (?!? - cool stuff) 20:15, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Didn't know I got that checked. Maybe due to a random click. Problem solved. Thanks a lot. Kxx (talk &#124; contribs) 23:28, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Citation Templates while editing
At some point, possibly about a week ago, the tool to insert citation templates from the editing window seems to have disappeared. The tool was really convenient, and its absence is annoying. (If it matters, I'm using IE8) Chris857 (talk) 00:21, 10 August 2011 (UTC) st 2011 (UTC)
 * Citations via the edit toolbar work fine for me, and so I think it's a problem local to your machine or your account. For starters, check "Enable enhanced editing toolbar" in your editing preferences; check javascript is enabled in the browser. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:06, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I did have the enhanced editing toolbar selected and javascript enabled. However, when I deselected "Enable enhanced editing toolbar", the "older" toolbar actually has a citation tool. Chris857 (talk) 01:41, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Missing table of contents
Why is there no table of contents on the Talk:Anne Hathaway (actress) page? Is one of the templates preventing it? The Mark of the Beast (talk) 01:20, 10 August 2011 (UTC)


 * If WikiProjectBannerShell is commented out, or if all the templates in it are commented out, the table is shown. I couldn't find any one Wikiproject template that caused the issue. After that I gave up.&#32;– droll  &#91;chat&#93;  02:20, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Frank fixed it the old fashioned way adding the TOC magic word. Seems to override whichever template (or combination thereof) was causing it to disappear.  Skier Dude  ( talk ) 02:25, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * But the fix still has issues, in that the first four entries in the TOC are spurious. It would be good to track down the root cause. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:34, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The reason was that the /comments subpage had a header, which caused the TOC to be hidden somewhere in the middle of the WPBannerShell. I fixed it by deleting said subpage. Ucucha (talk) 02:39, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Linking from "Search" to "Help:Search"
Someone has asked why Special:Search does not have a link to Help:Searching. I guess this is the best noticeboard to make it happen. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:44, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Another point is that clicking on "Advanced" on the search page brings up only a set of check boxes for namespaces; it doesn't provide access to all of the available functions (intitle searching and so on). This is misleading, as I suspect readers would assume that "Advanced" is as advanced as it gets (i.e. they'll conclude that no other functionality is available, and won't bother clicking on the help link to discover the extra stuff, even if there is such a link).--Kotniski (talk) 09:53, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Those options are nice! I had no idea they existed, must have been asleep when they were introduced. One easy measure would be to change MediaWiki:Searchmenu-new and MediaWiki:Searchmenu-exists: instead of "For search help, please visit Help:Searching" we could have "For search help and an explanation of advanced options, please visit Help:Searching." But I agree that the "advanced" tab should be renamed "free namespace selection" or provide non-namespace based advanced options. —Kusma (t·c) 10:11, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This is bug 21988. MER-C 10:39, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The currently blank MediaWiki:Search-summary is displayed at the top of Special:Search. I agree that the former version was bloated, but I suggest simply saying Help:Searching, similar to the German Wikipedia: de:MediaWiki:Search-summary (they use a piped link). PrimeHunter (talk) 13:32, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That would be an improvement, certainly, but I don't think the previous version was much too bloated - precisely because of the fact that the extra functions are not available under "Advanced" or any other link where they would be expected to be (and since that's a bugzilla matter, we can't expect it to change any time soon), we ought to say explicitly that there are advanced options available, otherwise no-one will know to look for them.--Kotniski (talk) 13:55, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * How about "For search options, see Help:Searching." as the text of MediaWiki:Search-summary? —Kusma (t·c) 08:47, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That would work for me. (Then if that appears on the search results page as well, we can remove the link to Help:Searching from the other MediaWiki pages that we added it to, to avoid duplication.)--Kotniski (talk) 09:28, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Done and removed duplicates. —Kusma (t·c) 10:26, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

It seems to make more people look at the help page:. —Kusma (t·c) 06:04, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ...and leave useless feedback at . -- John of Reading (talk) 15:09, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Gawd that page was awful. I skimmed each one and found nothing worth saving so I removed them all. I'm sure it'll just keep happening though. Killiondude (talk) 17:38, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Navigation popups
For past few days I've been having trouble with the Navigation popups working on things like in my watchlist. Hovering over dif or hovering over history than last and it not working. I already did the bypass of my cashe, what now? This kind of thing has happened in the past and it was a new upgrade that made things not work. Thanks, -- Crohnie Gal Talk  11:04, 8 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Is anyone checking into this problem? I know I'm not alone with this situation.  Also there was problems with popups awhile ago that ended up being because of some software update or something.  I am ignorant when it comes to this stuff but I really would appreciate some help here.  As it is I'm not doing too much because I have to click on everything I want to look at in my watchlist.  It's only a problem when I hit diffs or last (in the watchlist is history, then there is last, it doesn't work with popups), everything else seems to work though which is strange to me. If someone is looking into this and if that's the case, please just drop a note here saying so.  Thank you in advance for you time, -- Crohnie Gal  Talk  00:03, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Reformatting articles for NUMBEROFPAGES
Someone mentioned that the WP "Main_Page" is reformatted for each new reader, due to using variable {&#123;NUMBEROFPAGES}} to show the "current" count of English articles, as in:
 * Near top of Main_Page:  "Special:Statistics articles in English"
 * (Main_Page uses " Special:Statistics ").

The Main_Page is viewed over 4.2 million times per day, so is it true that using {NUMBEROFPAGES} will cause the article page to be reformatted for each reader? I recently noticed how some article pages seem to be pre-formatted, with the specific reader's username overlayed at the top of the pre-formatted page. Also, it is somewhat goofy to say "3,705,387 articles" when pages are added, or deleted, each minute, like saying, "This hour has 3,591 seconds left" when merely reading the phrase takes a few seconds away from the 3,591 remaining seconds. So, if the Main_Page is really being reformatted for each reader, over 4.2 million times per day, then perhaps it should be changed to show:
 * Near top of Main_Page:  "Over 3.7 million articles in English"

Then continue to show that static text for 98 days, until the count goes "Over 3.8 million" (while "Over 3.7" would still be correct when having even more articles). Any thoughts? -Wikid77 (talk) 11:35, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No! We should be exact.   Ebe 123  talkContribs 11:56, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * How about " Lots of articles in English "? Far less overhead that way. — Bility (talk) 16:53, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It is not nearly that bad. First of all, for most editors, almost any page is 'reparsed' anyways. Second, a change in the "number of articles" won't purge the page from the squid caches, so ' ip readers' will see the number of the 'last parse' of the page, until someone makes and edit to the actual content of the page that will actually purge the main page from the squid. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 17:51, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * [[File:60px-Counter.gif]]  Chzz  ► 18:03, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:PERFORMANCE. Are you noticing a measurable slowdown in viewing the main page as a consequence of it having this code on it?  No?  Then Don't Panic <b style="color:forestgreen">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange">melon</b> 11:55, 10 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Indeed. All Wikipedia pages are heavily cached (even for logged-in users), so this sort of thing won't cause any problems. Even if there was an increase in server load, the server admins would notice it before we would. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 12:00, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Extreme slowness when right-clicking a link
Normally, when I start editing I go to my watchlist and check any changes since I last logged in. When I see ones that I want to check, I right-click them and open them in a new tab. Recently, this has become extremely slow (that is, before the contextual menu appears). It seems to be connected with how many wikilinks there are on a page, I have the same problem when right-clicking on a long history or contributions page, or within very long articles with many wikilinks. Things are faster with short articles/histories/etc. Even on shorter lists, though, right-clicking is slower than on non-WP sites. Sometimes the wait is very long and I get a essage that a script is running, if I choose to interrupt the srcipt, the contextual menu appears immediately. I use Firefox 5.0 under Windows 7 Professional. The problem is not computer-specific, because I have it on different computers. Anybody have any idea what may cause this? --Crusio (talk) 13:25, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Protip: Middle-click opens in a new tab. This will change your life. --Golbez (talk) 13:28, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, mu mouse driver does not allow me to program any middle-click and I haven't been able to find a better driver... --Crusio (talk) 13:32, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You don't need to program it... It simply is. If you're running Firefox 5 under Windows 7 then hopefully you have a mouse made in the last fifteen years? =p --Golbez (talk) 13:43, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * OMG!!!! That works!!! Many many many thanks!!! :-))) --Crusio (talk) 14:05, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The record will show that the use of ten exclamation points and an "OMG" fits with my earlier prediction that it will change your life. ;) --Golbez (talk) 14:21, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * For those whose mouse has just two buttons but also has a wheel between those, pressing the wheel in can behave like a middle button. It does for me anyway. Windows XP. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:15, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Category:Wikipedians whose life has been changed by User:Golbez. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:29, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Killiondude (talk) 17:39, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * heh, or click shift (at windows) for open the link in a new tab. for a background tab press ctrl (on mac command). <b style="font-family:Courier New; display:inline; border:#009 1px dashed; padding:1px 6px 2px 7px; white-space:nowrap; color:#000000; font-size:smaller;">mabdul</b> 17:20, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * cough* someone go edit Tips *cough*  Chzz  ► 17:43, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Certain pages not disappearing from watchlist
I'm hoping this is in the right section. I'm using Hide Pages in Watchlist to hide several pages I am watching, and while it hides most of them, there are still some pages (such as Template talk:Infobox television and Manual of Style (linking)) that it doesn't hide.

My CSS page. Lachlanusername (talk) 05:19, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You hade two major problems. First of all, many of the lines you added had an error. A ; instead of a :  The 2nd problem was with the encoding of some of the characters in the titles. There are certain rules applied to titles when they are converted into classes. These rules are apparently not well described in the Help page you were consulting. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 18:39, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

View this page on regular Wikipedia
For the last few minutes I was getting what I assume are mobile Wikipedia pages. The urls looked normal. Was I the only one? Dougweller (talk) 20:53, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No you were not! Jan 1 naD  (talk • contrib) 20:54, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

THIS IS what happened !
Someone deployed a change to all the servers. This change was broken and caused everyone to end up in the new experiment "mobile view" of the website that will soon replace the current en.m.wikipedia.org. The problem was live for about 5 minutes, when it was reverted. For more information see the serveradmin log or the Twitter feed. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 21:10, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Switched to mobile version?
Is it me or why did my default Wikipedia switch to the mobile version? It's back now, but for a few minutes, I couldn't access it. --Funandtrvl (talk) 20:53, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Small glitch. Someone deployed faulty code. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 20:54, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Happened to me too, on two different browsers (Chrome and Safari on OS X). Logged out, everything looked ok; logged in, mobile version, unable to switch to the real Wikipedia. Seems to be good again now. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:55, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Glad to see (maybe not...) it wasn't just me. Did someone fall asleep at the tech desk or hit the wrong button?? :-) --Funandtrvl (talk) 20:58, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Mobile site without asking for it
Ok, I'll bite -- any reason I just got randomly tossed into the mobile version of Wikipedia, and couldn't get out of it until I logged in to the secure site? -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:53, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That just happened to me too. How irritating. I couldn't get rid of it even by clicking on "permanently disable mobile site" at the bottom of the page. I had to clear my browser cache and cookies and log back in. ~Amatulić (talk) 20:55, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Funny how it took us all about the same amount of time to show up here. :-) -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:56, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

A lot of pages are loading first in the mobile form for me. This seems to be browser independent since it has happened in both Chrome and Firefox. It started when I went to the page Illinois, and no matter how many times I tell it to disable the mobile form is still happening for some pages such as Connecticut. JoshuaZ (talk) 20:54, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * See above. ~Amatulić (talk) 20:56, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Me, too. Just once but I wasn't looking at many pages then. Jim.henderson (talk) 20:57, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Me too. Bus stop (talk) 20:59, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Me too. I switched off experimental versions in preferences and it went away. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:00, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I didn't do anything, and it went away. Therefore cause and effect has not been established. Bus stop (talk) 21:03, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed - anyone who thinks they fixed bypassed the error just did something as it was fixed server-side. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 21:12, 10 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I wasn't suggesting I fixed the error. I couldn't back out of it and tried settings and posted here. Meanwhile it was fixed on the servers. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:16, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Fun for the whole family =0 – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 21:19, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm confused. What cause the glitch to force us on the mobile form? JDDJS (talk) 21:02, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Someone made a configuration error (or something). It took about 6 minutes to resolve. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 21:10, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation. But anyways, now I know where I can disable (hopefully, see below) the article feedback thingy. That thing takes up too much of the screen. --Funandtrvl (talk) 21:14, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Question only on getting to redirect page
I've had no problem in the past going to a redirect page to make changes where required. I can't seem to get to Education in Maine in any fashion. Wind up at strange page though redirect "appears" to be constructed correctly (look-ahead feature) to "Maine." The first link never arrives there, which isn't my problem. I need to get to the redirect page. Thanks. Student7 (talk) 21:04, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It appears to work now; a suitable link to the redirect is this. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 21:05, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! Student7 (talk) 23:57, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

unused documenation
Hello, please see Template:R_from_other_capitalisation, as it's seen this template used for documentation about redirects but please see this. nothing is showed (except categories). I think there is something for force to show this text and if there is not such a good thing so why we use unused documentation? Ladsgroupبحث 02:20, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I think any text on a page that is a redirect gets eaten by the parser. I'm not sure, but this may not have been the case in earlier versions of MediaWiki. Ucucha (talk) 02:37, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It's certainly been the case for as long as I remember (about two years) that text on redirects is hidden except when viewing a diff (or when previewing an edit). So, compare with . -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:13, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

View source-link visible in non-protected articles
Any idea why completely unprotected articles have View source tab instead of Edit? Clicking on the View source tab does bring up a normal editing interface, and if I purge the page (with &action=purge) it correctly displays Edit tab... perhaps this glitch is only visible to IP editors? I have noticed this before, but didn't really pay any attention. This time I got curious enough to click the Random article link in the sidebar 100 times, and got 9 articles which showed View source tab instead of Edit. None of them has ever been semi/fullprotected, and purging fixed them all. 88.148.249.186 (talk) 16:50, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Your IP address may have been autoblocked, that is, automatically blocked for a period of time after being used by a user who was blocked with the autoblock option on, and you probably had to purge in order to uncache the block.Jasper Deng (talk) 16:54, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Hm. I'm not sure if it checks expired autoblocks, but ~nakon/autoblockfinder.php doesn't show anything for that IP address. Killiondude (talk) 17:02, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No, this is a static IP and is only used by me (residential ADSL). For me, this glitch is not a problem, I just got curious about it. But if all the IPs see a missleading text in one page out of ten... what actually is cached: is it just the text of the article in HTML, or also parts of the interface -- perhaps a complete page including tabs, sidebar etc? 88.148.249.186 (talk) 17:23, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


 * This was also reported at Village pump (technical)/Archive 88 and Village pump (technical)/Archive 91 I have also experienced it when logged out. I haven't seen a bug report on it. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:25, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * 88..., there are multiple levels of caching on Wikipedia, including I believe caching of the parsed wikitext and of the complete HTML page (cf. mw:Manual:Caching). What may be going on is that you are getting a page that was cached when it was rendered for a blocked user, but that's just a guess. Ucucha (talk) 17:29, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

How do I delete a picture I uploaded?
How do I delete a picture I uploaded? I uploaded some pictures (such as that is only a part of another image), how do I delete these pictures without sending them to the pictures deleting requests?--<span style="background-color: #75ab00; border:1.5px solid #bad57f; font-family:Segoe Print; font-size:80%;"> <font color="#f2ffd5">Someone35  <font color="#f2ffd5">(talk)  18:57, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Add on the page on Commons. I'll delete the one you linked for you. But just for the record Commons is a separate project of the Wikimedia Foundation and has its own set of admins, templates, etc. Killiondude (talk) 19:02, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * k, i'll do that tomorrow--<span style="background-color: #75ab00; border:1.5px solid #bad57f; font-family:Segoe Print; font-size:80%;"> <font color="#f2ffd5">Someone35 <font color="#f2ffd5">(talk)  19:39, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Browser freezing when I load page history
Firefox has recently started freezing (not responding) when I look at page histories that have anything more than just a few revisions. It freezes for a minute or two, then starts responding again. I was using an old version of Firefox, so I downloaded the latest, but it makes no difference. I usually have my preferences set to load 1,000 revisions. I've changed this to 500, 400, etc, but the freezing only stops when I get to 50.

The same thing happens with default preferences, except for the number of revisions shown in page histories. It only happens with Firefox.

Can anyone think what kind of thing might be causing this, so I know where to start troubleshooting? SlimVirgin TALK |  CONTRIBS 00:49, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Possibly you have some JavaScript working on history pages that is taking a lot of time. You didn't add anything to your monobook.js recently, but perhaps it's a gadget, or one of your imported scripts got changed. Ucucha (talk) 02:39, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Happens to me all the time and has for years. But it's worse on IE.  The Mark of the Beast (talk) 05:17, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It would be helpful to know what version and what OS. --Izno (talk) 06:13, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Firefox was slow last week for me too, but this week it's working better. Try clearing your recent history (see Tools on the toolbar), and go to http://www.java.com/en/download/installed.jsp to check that you have the latest Java, Version 6 Update 26. Also see web pages take too long to load at Firefox Help for some more ideas. --Funandtrvl (talk) 07:18, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe it would help by disabling as much features as possible, e.g. I turned Flash of in the site-specific preferences. <b style="font-family:Courier New; display:inline; border:#009 1px dashed; padding:1px 6px 2px 7px; white-space:nowrap; color:#000000; font-size:smaller;">mabdul</b> 09:06, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay, thanks everyone, that gives me a few things to try. SlimVirgin  TALK |  CONTRIBS 16:44, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I've had similar problems with Firefox, for months, but also in IE, when trying to list history &limit=3000, which ran for more than 1 hour, even though 3,000 is just 60x times more entries than the default 50 revisions (3000=60*50) displayed within seconds (so if 50 revisions display in seconds, then 3000 shouldn't require 1 hour, but instead finish within several minutes). I think, months ago, the history-tab list was faster, hence, I suspected all the inherited CSS-style class parameters might be applied, as extreme overhead, to format each revision in the list. I'm not sure how much slower those CSS styles, or mouse-over gadgets, would run. Then also, I suspected U.S. computer rules require notifying, and opening an FBI or Homeland Security dossier, when people try to hunt through 3000 revisions looking for information, which would cause the display to run slower when being viewed by spooks snooping through your computer records. I already learned not to search for the word "atom" and any word (even in Greek) that goes "boooom" in the same search-engine lookup: I got all kinds of military sites hitting my firewall ports, soon after. Anyway, if someone finds a way to make Firefox list 250 history entries quickly, let us know. Thanks. -Wikid77 (talk) 08:34, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Emergency fix for Template:Convert/m

 * RESOLVED at 06:59, in Template:Convert/outAnd. -Wikid77 07:28, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Something has gone wrong inside Template:Convert and conversions of "m" (metres) are showing vastly wrong amounts, as just a few inches, in many (thousands?) of articles, such as the height of tennis player Andre Agassi as just 11 inches: "1.80 m (11 in)". A quick fix would be to install sandbox Template:Convert/m/sandbox as Template:Convert/m to stop showing any inches and just force all default conversions of "m" to decimal feet. The difference would be:
 * {&#123;convert|1.80|m}} &rarr; 1.80 m &larr;showed "(11 in)" at 5:33, 12 August
 * {&#123;convert|1.80|m/sandbox}} &rarr; 1.80 m/sandbox

Once Template:Convert/m has been patched from the sandbox, then we can take more time to see how to fix this confusing problem, and prevent any future massive screw-ups. However, there are other problems because conversions force "m" to "ftin" which no longer works, so this is a long-term nightmare:
 * {&#123;convert|1.80|m|ftin}} &rarr; 1.80 m
 * {&#123;convert|1.73|m|ftin}} &rarr; 1.73 m

The problem might occur within Template:Convert/outAnd which was recently changed to avoid "0 m" as "1 ft 0 in". I am thinking Template:Height should be rewritten as a highly stable, simple template, rarely if ever changed. If any questions, ask below, and I will watch this topic for a few hours. Several templates are involved in the calculation of 1.80 metres as "11 in" so I am not sure where the problem actually occurred; the patch to Template:Convert/m is just to bypass conversions to the ft&in style of numbers. -Wikid77 (talk) 05:39, revised 06:04, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The problem was fixed at 06:59, 12 August 2011, in Template:Convert/outAnd and likely lasted about 7 hours showing incorrect heights of some people, such as many tennis players, but not basketball players. -Wikid77 07:28, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Infobox question
When filling in Template:Infobox AFL player NEW on an article, a comma will always appear after the date of death, regardless of whether or not the place of death has been filled in. Is there something someone can do to the infobox so that it only appears when there is something after it? It looks odd otherwise. Any help would be much appreciated. Jevansen (talk) 05:46, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Problem is probably line 35:
 * | colspan="2" |, - that rogue comma between the date & place... Probably needs  opening & closing - will leave it to someone with a bit more expertise.  Skier Dude  ( talk ) 06:11, 12 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Use #if: before punctuation: The typical format would be to check the parameter (with empty "|" default) before showing the punctuation as comma. So, try:
 * | colspan="2" | &lt;!--endif {deathplace}--&gt;
 * That way, the comma "," would only be shown when parameter has been specified as text to appear. -Wikid77 (talk) 07:42, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Using lang-sa variable
On the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panini

I found that the expression (hacked by spaces, so it display here as source): . . . ( S a n s k r i t : { { l a n g - s a | पा णि नि } } ). ..

evaluates to: ... (Sanskrit: Sanskrit: पाणिनि)

where the double "Sanskrit" does not look nice.

In the sandbox, I tried: . . . ( { { l a n g - s a | S a n s k r i t } } : पा णि नि ). ..

but it evaluates to the same.

Also, I could not find "lang-sa" in the variables documentation.

I'd like to add the same entry into the German page, but it would be nice not to copy a known error.

Any advice or help would be highly appreciated.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andreas.Stankewitz (talk • contribs) 10:00, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * isn't a variable, so I wouldn't expect to find it in the variables documentation. It's a template, and as such has its own doc page (which is displayed in a pale green box when you view the template page Template:Lang-sa), but it's admittedly rather scant on information. Most of the useful documentation is actually shown on the generic page.
 * The template, like the others in the  series, generates its own linked language name, so there is no need to provide one of your own. I have  the superfluous one.
 * Although there is a German equivalent to Panini at de:Panini, there is no de:Vorlage:Lang-sa template page. I don't think that the German Wikipedia has any multilingual support templates directly equivalent to our series - if they did, I'd expect to find a "Deutsch" entry in the left margin of  at the very least. You would need to use    and create your own link, as in  . -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:31, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Searching for forum contributions in Wikipedia forum throws goggle error message
This is a bug report, which was refused by the bugzilla guys (see bug 30340) but suggested to be posted here. So it be.

User intention: Search for already existing entries in Wikipedia's technical forum

Steps to repeat: Open page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump Click on any "search" link, e.g. the one under "Technical"

Expected behavior: Show result list (obviously provided by Google)

Actual behavior: Google throws an error message telling me: "We're sorry... ... but your computer or network may be sending automated queries. To protect our users, we can't process your request right now."

I once read that this could happen with Google, so the source of the bug most likely is not related to Wikipedia. Still, this is a crucial function when using the forums, and should work.

I'm running a private network with a well configured WLAN and computers configured to defend malware as best as possible. It's quite unlikely that my network is the actual reason for Google's error message. But even if it is, it might hit other users too, and at the end is perceived as a Wikipedia problem.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andreas.Stankewitz (talk • contribs) 10:19, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It's the template. I've raised a thread at Template talk:Google custom. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:47, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

502 Proxy error on secure server
I almost always get a proxy error when trying to load a diff from the history of an article. Refreshing does no good and it happens across browsers. This has been going on for weeks if not months. I'm assuming the page is timing out. Be nice to get it fixed....is this a known issue? RxS (talk) 05:13, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Try to load the diff at the "normal" Wikipedia server, click the "Edit" button, scroll down the page and see if there are alot of template transclusions. If that is the case, that will explain the issue. Hey  Mid  (contribs) 07:47, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This happens when it takes the https termination servers too long to retrieve your request from the backend network services. It is a known issue, and can occur on any type of https request that takes the servers very long to process. I'm not sure if there is a solution. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 08:03, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

errors at Category:Candidates for speedy deletion by user
For some reason a bunch of user talk pages are in this category right now despite not being visibly nominate for deletion. Some of them are even archive pages that haven't been edited since 2008. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:46, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Its due to User:Knowzilla/Welcome being deleted, each page just needs purging I think--<font color="Blue">Jac <font color="Green">16888 Talk 16:51, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Scratch that, null editing will do it--<font color="Blue">Jac <font color="Green">16888 Talk 16:52, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It was another of knowzilla's pages that was deleted and caused it as well, sorted it out now. Makes a nice empty csd, been a while since I've seen that wasn't paying attention, its a subcat--<font color="Blue">Jac <font color="Green">16888 Talk 16:58, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks! Beeblebrox (talk) 17:14, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

New messages alert via background colour
Is it possible to change some aspect of the skin when one has "new messages" - e.g. changing the page background from white to grey, or someth?  Chzz  ► 18:12, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Should be easy to do with some JavaScript. Ucucha (talk) 18:14, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

The following code does it for me: The gray color is not easy to miss, but you can change "gray" to some other color if you like it better. Ucucha (talk) 21:42, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, scrap that; it also makes the background gray when there is no new message. I'll try to find out why. Ucucha (talk) 21:43, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Put the above code in Special:Mypage/common.js to get the gray background. Ucucha (talk) 21:49, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That is nifty - but any idea why it wouldn't work in Opera? (works fine in Chrome.) <sup style="color:red;">Avic <sub style="color:blue;">ennasis  @ 03:32, 10 Av 5771 / 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I suppose Opera treats some kind of JavaScript and/or CSS differently (it also worked for me in Firefox). Are you seeing any JavaScript errors (wouldn't know where to look for those in Opera, though)? Ucucha (talk) 03:41, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It works fine in Opera, I just tried it. The problem is with the  line in User:The Earwig/afc-helper.js, which seems to be stopping the background colour from changing some how. If someone wants to try and pick apart http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.3.2/jquery.min.js to figure out exactly what is going on then be my guest ;) - Kingpin13 (talk) 11:12, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Afc helper should remove that import of google's jquery. MediaWiki has it's own jquery enabled at all times for a couple of months now already. Including multiple copies is bound to be problematic. 62.140.137.85 (talk) 18:25, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much, I'll give it a try!  Chzz  ► 09:07, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm; something odd, here. If/when I go to some user talks, the background colour changes - even though I don't have new messages. Possibly, it is when a user talk has a, and it 'sees' the "You have new messages" from that?  Chzz  ► 08:54, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That template shouldn't affect it. Got an example page? It could be if someone is using a yellow "leave me a message" bar which uses the same class stylinh as the usermessage bar. --Errant (chat!) 10:12, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, or more precisely, an element that has class="usermessage". I changed the above to check for a different element of the new message bar that is hopefully less prone to false positives. Ucucha (talk) 11:04, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Definitely better. Thanks again,  Chzz  ► 01:52, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Some bluelinks appear red
See WP:HD.

I noticed this while visiting the page BBB. Some of the wikilinks on this page appear in red, despite being bluelinks (ie. leading to an existing article). A screenshot of the appearance can be found. I am using Safari on Windows 7. What could cause this and how can it be fixed? Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 17:51, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know if it's exactly the same phenomenon or not, but I've noticed that whenever I use Twinkle to create an AfD, I have to go back and add a space before the name of the AfD page in order for the link (which works if you click on it) to be blue instead of red. Lady  of  Shalott  18:01, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not the same issue. The Twinkle issue is just one of timing between servers. If you do a server purge on the article page after you have used TW to create the Afd, the link in the Afd notice should turn from red to blue. – ukexpat (talk) 18:15, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Just a note that I prefer doing AfDs manually (I'm an old-fashioned kind of guy) and I see this phenomenon as well (link to AfD being red until I purge the page). It's not Twinkle's fault. --  At am a  頭 18:40, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * OK weird. So why does adding a space before the title make it turn blue? Am I in effect forcing a purge by doing that? Lady  of  Shalott  18:53, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Since WP removes unnecessary spaces, that's really a null edit - and does purge the page extremely well - often useful when one has updated a template and you want to see the result on the article - sometimes WP takes ages to catch up, a null edit on the article forces WP to reload all the templates on the page.  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:00, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks for the explanation! Lady  of  Shalott  19:08, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Problem with the mobile site when viewed with Opera mini
Up until a few days ago, the mobile site looked the same in Opera Mini as it does in Firefox on a full sized computer. However, now when viewing the main page (with "mobile view" on or off), the "search box" is gone. When viewing an article, there's a "search box" but the "submit button" is a tiny little dot between the box and the big "home" and "random" buttons. Also the "view this page on regular Wikipedia" link is missing. (but I see it on Firefox)

Was there a recent redesign of the mobile site and was this redesign tested using multiple phones and browsers? --Ron Ritzman (talk) 02:42, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There are actually two mobile websites at the moment. http://en.m.wikipedia.org, and the one you get when you click "mobile view" at the bottom of a normal page. There is a transition going on between the two systems. The skins of the new system are not fully supporting the same amount of layout options as the old skin, but it is being worked on and should visibly improve in the next month or so. I will notify the author of the new system about your problem (30356). On what kind of phone are you using Opera mini, and would you know the version of Opera that you are using ? That might be useful information for him. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 07:48, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Opera/9.80 (J2ME/MIPD; Opera Mini/6.24093/25.729; U;en) Presto/2.5.25 Version/10.54. The mobile site use to look best using the browser's "mobile view" feature. One box, one submit button, then the article text. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 12:55, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This may also be due to the changed redirects based upon User Agent. In that case, please visit "myuseragent.com" with opera mini and note the exact User agent that is stated there. It might help. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 07:59, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

It's a shame that logging in doesn't yet work with the mobile site or you could give users a choice of skins. Mobile displays vary in size more then full size computer screens do so it would be nice to have different skins optimized for different displays. On my issue, page appearance now seems to be inconsistent. With mobile view on, sometimes a page will look like they all use to with the search box on top, a little "spyglass" button below it and to the left for submitting followed by "home, random, and end" blue links. (I prefer this but others may not). Sometimes it's a search box with a tiny little dot below it for a submit button and sometimes there's no search box at all. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 21:18, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Adding options like these is the end goal of integrating the older en.m.wikipedia.org into the standard software (new mobile view). That is a LONG road however, that requires not only mobile specific layout'ing, but also mobile specific outputparsers (that output the page in such a way that older mobile devices can read them as WML/WAP, or XHTML mobile profile). But that is the goal. (The skin you were describing btw, was the mobile "simple" skin, as opposed to the mobile "iphone" skin for touch devices, for en.m.wikipedia.org, there are actually about 8 skin variants for different devices). —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 11:14, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing that, without logging in and being able to set a preference, the skin is picked based on the user agent reported by the browser. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 05:14, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Link is not clickable in FF, but is in IE
This template (Hurricane season bar start generates a link depending on its input.

It is used in templates such as 1962 Pacific typhoon season buttons

However, if you check the main link (at the top of the template) in Firefox, you cannot click it. It works just fine in IE.

Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 03:49, 15 August 2011 (UTC)


 * This edit fixes it. Very weird. Something wrong with the parser/renderer? Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 04:06, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Error in Article
I was reading about the US Army and in the "infobox" on the right it doesn't list Operation Urgent Fury as an engagement we fought in. I would like to have that changed in order to honor our 19 dead and 116 wounded soldiers. Thank you if can change it because I don't know how. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cjonschmidt (talk • contribs) 03:04, 16 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Operation Urgent Fury (the Invasion of Grenada) is mentioned in United States Army and included in List of wars involving the United States. An infobox such as the one at United States Army should summarize important points and not include everything. The invasion of Grenada may not be significant enough to mention in the infobox but you can post a suggestion at Talk:United States Army. Note that Wikipedia is not a memorial, and it is an international encyclopedia with editors and readers around the World. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:26, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Opting out of a global Javascript
Hi, over at Commons there is a discussion about adding a link to Special:MyUploads in the top right, next to My Contributions (see Commons:Commons:Village_pump/Proposals; the concept has general support though with requests for improving Special:MyUploads). Now I've made a Javascript which does this, Commons:User:Rd232/myuploads.js, but I don't know how to give users the ability to opt out of having this additional link once that code is added into Commons' Javascript page. I think the usual thing is a Gadget "turn X off", but I've no idea how to do it. Could someone who knows how please come to Commons and help implement this (in a hands on way, more than a giving-tips way)? I ask here because I think it's the best place to find the necessary expertise. Many thanks. Rd232 talk 12:02, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * One line of CSS should do the trick:  (haven't tested it myself). Ucucha (talk) 17:15, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Alternatively, a piece of JavaScript like this (which could be turned into a gadget, and I haven't personally tested it either): Ucucha (talk) 17:17, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The CSS should be  That should do the trick. <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> —  Edokter  ( talk ) — 19:17, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

proposal for additional pronunciation information
in response to:


 * Where did you encounter the problem? Please add links when possible.

i would not describe this as a problem. but here are my observations and i am looking for some guidance.

i was visiting the url: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohandas_Karamchand_Gandhi

and i came across the following:

pronounced [mo???n?d?a?s? k?r?m?t??nd?? ga?nd??i]

the question marks are all characters that are unrecognizable to my editor of choice, which is SciTE.

so i followed a few links and came across this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronunciation_respelling_for_English

then i went to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_%28pronunciation%29

there seems to be some interest among native english speaking people: "how do i pronounce this correctly??????"

as an american, i am fully aware, that as an american, i am totally unaware of anything even remotely "International". i still buy gas by the gallon and not by the liter (pardon me litre).

on the other hand, i am a retired mathematician and programmer. so please let me make some comparisons:

say i were amongst any of the following:

The IPA is used by foreign language students and teachers, linguists, speech pathologists and therapists, singers, actors, lexicographers, artificial language enthusiasts (conlangers), and translators.

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

i would hazard a guess and say this set comprises less than 1% of native english speaking people who visit en.wikipedia.org.

therefore the rational seems to be:

The pronunciation of English words in Wikipedia is given in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) using the following transcription, which is not specific to any one dialect.

the problem with this is: it is not specific to ANY dialect!

except:

foreign language students and teachers, linguists, speech pathologists and therapists, singers, actors, lexicographers, artificial language enthusiasts (conlangers???), and translators.

so here is my comparison...

suppose i WERE one of those folks who actually uses the:

International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)

and i wanted to know what the square-root of two was...

should i first have to learn about the natural numbers, then the set of integers and then the rationals and set notation to prove that the square-root of two is not a rational number and then learn that it is also neither a transcendental or complex number or quaternion?

so here's where the looking for guidance part comes in...

since i am retired... all that information provided to make sense of this international alphabet which has been around since 1888, (but simple american folks like mathematician's have never heard of!) actually looks interesting to me, but that is probably because i LIKE looking at unintelligible symbols! but on the serious side, i have found this to be quite irritating.

so here is my proposed solution:

when a new topic is started, i see: "needs citation" all over the place. now those comments may all be made by other wiki readers who can't keep their fingers off the "needs citation" button. but my solution would require a bit of programming... so here goes...

how about i create a simple database, and every so often the topics which contain the: International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) symbols are matched against this database and we stick a tiny, tiny, little icon near it (so as not to offend) so that when you pass your mouse cursor over it, you actually DO get some help on how to pronounce the word. of course this would only be for the native english speaking wiki's.

if you think this solution might work, let me know, i will be happy to code it, for the sake of all us simple folk who would like to know how to pronounce: Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi correctly...

thank you.

sincerely,

brian oslick bdo1964@att.net 08.08.2011 Bdo1964 (talk) 22:35, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There has been discussion to simply include the "re-spelled" pronunciation, probably in a footnote, because "almost no one in the world" can read IPA whatever. To perhaps answer your main question, "Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi" is pronounced as "Mo-hahn-dass Kah-rahm-chahnd Gahn-dee" (I think); however, other names might benefit from a rhymes-with pronunciation, as in "Ayn Rand" rhymes with "Wine stand" (or such). So, some people have pronounced "Gandhi" to rhyme with "candy" whereas others would rhyme "gone free" for "Gandhi". Many people pronounce "New York" as "Nu-Yorrk" whereas others (locals?) say "nuh-Yawk" while "New Orleans" can be "Nu Orluns" or "Nawlins" or French "Ohr-lay-ahnn" (etc.). Only very rare words cannot be re-spelled or rhymed. -Wikid77 (talk) 06:24, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Re: "Mo-hahn-dass Kah-rahm-chahnd Gahn-dee": the sound written as "a" in this transcription is really more of an "uh" sound in the middle name, so that "kuh-rum-chund" would be closer.
 * As for the topic at hand: I agree that IPA isn't that widely known: it's becoming more common in dictionaries- but that doesn't mean everyone is familiar with it. Still, IPA has the advantage that it's completely independant of one's own accent: The problem with the "respelling" method is that different people may read it differently depending on where they're from.
 * For me, as a California native, "hot", "bought" and "caught" all rhyme. For someone from New York, they don't (then there's "merry", "Mary" and "marry", which sound the same to me, but which may have two or three different pronunciations for others). It may be possible to avoid such cases, but it would require a good knowledge of the patterns of variation- and with people from all over the world reading it, there would be lots of variation.
 * There's also the option of linking to a recording (if you click "listen" next to Gandhi's name in that article, you should be able to hear how a native speaker pronounces it), though not everyone has an ogg plugin on their browser Chuck Entz (talk) 07:35, 16 August 2011 (UTC)


 * TL;DR. This "IPA is too weird" thing is a perennial argument; see Talk:International Phonetic Alphabet and WT:IPA for scores of copies of it. Also, I don't see how this topic is relevant to this village pump. <b class="IPA">r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 08:54, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, the particular proposal above ("intuitive" mouseover text with IPA stuff) has been made before, I'm pretty sure someone even has a trial version of it somewhere. As for the particular article in question, it already has an audio recording linked right after the IPA transcription, so this whole discussion seems like a solution in search of a problem. <b class="IPA">r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 08:57, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Image referendum character error
Right now, on the CentralNotice, I'm just getting a long line of boxes of the sort you get when you are trying to view a script for which you do not have (a/the) correct font installed.

I'm logged in, and I've got everything set to en, so AFAIK I should just be seeing it in English (which I was before?). Is this just me...? - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 11:16, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Happened to me too, briefly. The message was in some script that I didn't recognise (which means it was really fairly obscure...) The problem seems to have gone away now - the message is back in good old English. — This, that, and the other (talk) 11:19, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * According to the Google translator, it was Hawaiian but seems its back to English now. Thank heavens it wasn't just me seeing it! Bidgee (talk) 11:21, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, seems to be fixed now. Thanks all. - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 11:31, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

wth?
I went to edit a User's Talk page, and the following appeared above the edit box:

[redacted Russian text-apparently copyvio]

The Mark of the Beast (talk) 22:59, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It's at User talk:Ayaro, if that matters. The Mark of the Beast (talk) 23:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It's the user's personal editnotice, found at User talk:Ayaro/Editnotice. It is in Russian and appears to be promotional and a copyvio of (at least according to Google Translate, but we all know how... quirky GT can be), so I've reported it pending verification by a Russian-speaking admin. <font style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> Intelligent  sium  23:14, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, it was just a copy of the "About us" section of that company's website. Presumably the user was promoting the company. Anyway, it all seems to have been removed now.--Kotniski (talk) 06:14, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Automatic spaces in section headings

 * Previous discussion: Village pump (technical)/Archive 86

I know that this has been brought up before and I know that there are a lot of users for and against having the additional spaces betweem the equal signs and the title of the section (ie == Section == tile vice ==Section title== . Can it at least be made into an option that the user can change as a gadget or under preferences whether we want these ugly spaces by default? I realize that some like them but there are quite a few of us that would prefer to stop wasting the space and cluttering up the pages with them and if I could turn them off rather than be forced to use them that would be just wonderful. --Kumioko (talk) 20:55, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the link. I forgot about that. The attached discussion also helps to indicate that different editors have different preferences. Which is fine. This request simply allows the editor to choose whether they want to add them or not and if they do then thats ok. If not then those of us that do not like them would have the option to in some way manually turn it off to set no spaces. This way everyone wins. Those that want to use them can, those that don't wish to can stop. --Kumioko (talk) 21:09, 16 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think it would be a worthwhile use of developer time to modify the Mediawiki software itself, but someone might be able to write a javascript to emulate the "new section" function that didn't add the spaces. If it really bothers you that much, you can edit the last section of the page, tape on your new section without the ==spaces==, and modify the /* section link */ in the edit summary and use "new section" for the edit summary. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 21:12, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I have done that sometimes in the past but its annoying and time consuming. I was hoping someone could just create a way that would allow the users the option of not having the blank spaces by default. --Kumioko (talk) 17:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Capricornus.jpg
The capricornus.jpg on en.wikipedia is a goat, on de.wikipedia a composer. Can anyone fix this so that the image can be used on the composer Samuel Capricornus page? Thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:28, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The goat, originally at en.wp en:File:Capricornus.jpg, had been copied to commons at commons:File:ZodiacalConstellationCapricornus.jpg. I have now deleted that en.wp item. The composer, originally at de.wp de:File:Capricornus.jpg, had been copied to commons at commons:File:Capricornus.jpg, and the de.dp item was deleted. If there is no image on the local wp, the commons image is displayed. That means now, File:Capricornus.jpg is the composer. DMacks (talk) 12:53, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Strange script logon behaviour
- Something strange seems to have started happening recently - using a script, I can't log in to my personal user account (or another test account I've just created), even though I can successfully log on in exactly the same way to my (flagged) bot account, and I can log in from my browser to any of the accounts. I've tried asking at WP:Bot owners' noticeboard, but without a resolution - does anyone here have any ideas what's going on? Are humans expected to provide different agent strings than bots, or something like that? Kotniski (talk) 13:00, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Broken ref tag?
I just added a citation for the 2010 population of Omaha, Nebraska, but it's showing up in the infobox as "UNIQ63,587d0,445,666c20-ref-00,000,003-QINU". I'm probably doing something wrong here—how do I fix it? —Bkell (talk) 21:37, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * References and formatnum don't mix too well, see . As a workaround, put the ref in one of the "_footnotes" fields provided by the template. Anomie⚔ 22:03, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Thanks. —Bkell (talk) 22:09, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

So what is happening with this proposal?
Could anyone supply an update on Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_74, which seems to have passed without contention? -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 02:20, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * From what I can see, there are three issues raised in the discussion you've pointed to. For reasons I don't follow, these three issues have been added to an existing mediawiki bug report -

- which primary deals with a strictly unrelated issue, "Image file extension should not be part of the name". From a quick read through, discussions on whether and how the primary issue should be tackled have not exactly reached a conclusion, and I see indications that the bug is not being treated as highly urgent. And I think the three issues lately tacked onto the big report stand relatively little chance of getting a look-in. Further, at least one denizen of WP's bugzilla doesn't agree that there's need to make the changes advocated. The bottom line is that this is a mediawiki issue and not strictly an en.wikipedia issue.
 * I suggest that if you want to get progress you'll a) have to make and win a case for change on bugzilla, b) put together one or more new bug reports to separate "your" bugs from the 4421 bug and c) hope that the new bug listings get some priority amongst the very many existing bugs.
 * I note that there's a clear impediment to progress, in that should mediawiki code be changed in the way "your" bugs seek to have it changed, action will have to be taken to resolve however many cases there would then be of identically named images (i.e. ABC.JPG and abc.jpg would be fighting for the exact same namespace). That's not an insuperable issue, but it is a big big big problem affecting not only the naming of the corpus of files on on wikipedias, but also affecting all links to these files from all wikipedias. I can well see why a developer might conclude that the very slight supposed gain is not worth the tremendous effort that would be required. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:48, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I feared as much it had become somehow bogged down, but didn't know how to track it down. -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 03:32, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Not everything that en.wp decides is a good idea is actually easy to implement :D The big problem here indeed is the decidedly large trove of images that we ALREADY have. Were it possible to start afresh, this would be easy peasy. As it stands now, it will be a humongous challenge of backwards compatibility and conversion, which needs to be absolutely without a single error. I estimate development time to get this implemented and properly enough tested at some 2-2,5 years at the moment (The time that it took to implement file renaming). And to be honest, there really are more important feature requests of smaller scale on the table in that area (think about copyright, author etc for a file as part of the database, so the files can be more easily reused). The developers have to decide what is the best way to spent their time and it is my opinion, and probably the opinion of many other developers, that there really are more important things to fix/make that will have a higher 'yield' in effect upon the user. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 07:42, 13 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi there. I'm the original proposer. I view this much the same way I view the media blacklist; as a measure that would stop the creation of future issues while not really doing anything to address the past issues. One of the things that the blacklist does is prevent the upload of files with names like "File:DSC000238.jpg". A team of about a half dozen people have been manually renaming files that have those kinds of useless names and were uploaded before the blacklist came into effect. If the devs can't easily fix all the old issues, would it be possible to create a system where new issues are no longer able to be created? Would it be possible to force all new uploads into having one version of the filetype extension? In other words, the current system allows me to upload as ".jpg", ".jpeg", ".JPG", ".JPEG", etc, and the new system would only allow new files in the jpeg file type to be uploaded with say ".jpg". This wouldn't force people into using a specific filetype, but would limit each filetype to one using only one extension, like the new Commons Upload Wizard does. It also wouldn't affect previously uploaded files, grandfathering the old ones in. This change would knock off issues 2 and 3 of my original proposal, if I remember it correctly, and would probably be easy to implement, if not now, when the next upload wizards come out.  S ven M anguard   Wha?  00:43, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
 * A possibility I guess, one with less impact than the other proposals of fully decoupling filenames form extensions. Still we have a lot of "entry points" into the upload process. I guess a "title normalization" step would have to be introduced before the "title verification" step, that would require adding interface callbacks to give user feedback. A lot less complicated. Better filed as a separate ticket however. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 11:08, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Fully decoupling filenames form extensions is not, was not, and will never be part of my proposal. It has been shot down repeatedly for any number of excellent reasons since 2006. I'm tired of having to say this.  S ven M anguard   Wha?  21:34, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Rick Perry popup?
When I go to Malmö, I get a popup that stays up for about 3 seconds saying:

Vote for Republican Party! Rick Perry for President 2012!

This public service announcement is brought to you by Access Denied.  Enigma <sup style="color:#FFA500;">msg  18:54, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Template vandalism from a blocked user. Fixed here but its uses probably still have it cached or something. Killiondude (talk) 18:59, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I checked the article history but I forgot about checking for templates.  Enigma <sup style="color:#FFA500;">msg  19:48, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * is your friend. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 06:23, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Template that add different links depending on HTTP/HTTPS
Hello everyone, I have an idea for a rather simple template in mind, dealing with HTTP/HTTPS. Currently, internal links and links to sister project sites on the secure server usually let one remain on a secure connection via HTTPS (still with exception unfortunately). However, external links are usually always HTTP only (unless, in cases like Bugzilla, the site only exists as HTTPS). Since many external links come from templates, my intent was to create a template similar to Sec link auto, but for external links. This could then be added to those templates, so that many articles make a difference between HTTP and HTTPS. Those sites that have templates are also usually the only ones that really support HTTPS in a way that we can link to it. Let me know what you think, --The Evil IP address (talk) 11:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The WMF will assimilate the server configurations for HTTP and HTTPS. It will results in unified parser cache meaning our tricks to detect protocol will stop working.  — Dispenser 13:11, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, see MediaWiki 1.18. In the meantime, you can do something like . Ucucha (talk) 13:33, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the information, this is certainly a better approach. Hopefully, we can get rid of the hacks soon after live deployment. --The Evil IP address (talk) 17:12, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia search autocomplete
How long does it take for an article's title to be included in Wikipedia search autocomplete feature?Smallman12q (talk) 22:09, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Presumably the title of a new article would be added the next time the search engine is indexed, which hasn't happened for a while. Graham 87 01:26, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Profile picture upload/change
Can first say that I'm totally frustrated with Wikipedia/Commons! I mean, just to find the place to post this!!.. Ugh! And the design/layout is FAR too messy!

So, for the last 3 hours or so, I've been trying to change the profile picture (ancient) of an actor. I have read through 15+ different tutorial/information/help/upload wizard Wiki pages and it resulted in nothing more than to get me über-confused. And angry. I managed to upload a new picture (my own work) on Commons. I think. Actually, I have no idea! I uploaded a more recent picture of that actor.... somewhere!.. I have no idea where it is now and even less of an idea about how to replace the old picture (from 2008) with the one I uploaded (from June 2011). Can anyone help?? Thank you! [Afraid to leave this page because I have no idea if I'll find it again, should anyone reply to my query...] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Icla (talk • contribs) 22:32, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * We could do with a few more clues, such as - if you can remember - the name of the file you think you uploaded, or the name of the actor. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:42, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * But in short, if you managed to upload a new image - say actor_photo.jpg - then you'd need simply to add something like [[file:actor_image.jpg|thumb|some words about the image]] or if there is an infobox at the top right of the article, find the  parameter in the infobox table, and substitute the name of your file. Clearly, knowing that you have uploaded the file and knowing its name is key. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:45, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah. Sorted courtesy of Goodvac. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:48, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Tagishsimon, I didn't notice you were responding to this. I was composing a reply but got held up a little. Goodvac (talk) 22:56, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello, and welcome! You uploaded one picture to Commons: File:Matthew Rhys.jpg. This link will take you to a list of your contributions, where you can view your edits and uploads. I have moved the 2007 picture to the career section of the article Matthew Rhys and put the 2011 photo uploaded by you in the infobox. I hope this is what you intended. If you have more questions, feel free to ask them here, and we'll help you to the best of our abilities. Goodvac (talk) 22:56, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Oh I suck at this, lol! Even just to reply to you both (THANK YOU Tagishsimon and Goodvac!!) I had to figure out that I have to edit my own post instead of just clicking a reply button somewhere! So weird! Anyway, yes, I saw that the new picture is on the actor's (English) page now. Awesome, thank you Goodvac! Would love to have it on all language versions, but I guess that's too much asking! ☺ I'm still unsure where my uploaded Matthew Rhys picture is stored. Luckily I kept the link that takes me to the picture, but shouldn't it be in my preferences or archive or some other place in my account? Anyway, thank you both for your help! EDIT: Oy, ok, read your reply again and I get it now - it's stored under 'My Contributions'. Perfect. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Icla (talk • contribs) 23:07, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm sure the image will slowly percolate through the other wikipedias, though you could be bold and visit each of them to add your image. For me, I find it fun to add an image and revisit the image page on the commons from time to time to get a kick out of discovering that someone else has found the image and used it - the page lists which wikipedis are using it. It does take time, though. Each of the various language wikipedias is a distinct entity, as is the commons; you have an account on each of them, and each of them has a history of your contributions, as I think you now know. It is all a bit baffling, but I hope that you'll stick with it. Thanks for the photo; much appreciated. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:30, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Baffling? You can say that again! I think I will follow your advice and let it percolate, because I like the idea of getting a kick out of it! ☺ I also like the RESOLVED and the green tick at the front of my query now! Thank you again Tagishsimon and you're welcome! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Icla (talk • contribs) 01:20, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Do they check me when I' ve signed?
I am not an admin. I could find out whether a Username is an admin or not. So far, so good. Now for an admin with admin rights, how could & would they check whether I am an admin? What does it take? -DePiep (talk) 22:58, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a user rights facility, a link to which is found at the foot of the contributions history for each user. A User contributions link is found to the left side of the user and user talk page. If I understand your question, an admin would find out this info in exactly the same way as you would. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:02, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Alternatively, you could use X!'s tool. Goodvac (talk) 23:07, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure, they could behave like a User. My question was: does an admin have other options. -DePiep (talk) 23:09, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No. Ucucha (talk) 23:15, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Admins can look at Special:UserRights/DePiep (User rights management, accessible to admins from the user contributions page) and see if the radio button "administrator" is checked. Goodvac (talk) 23:28, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Right, but if an admin only wants to see the current rights then it's by default no easier to reach or read than the "User rights" link on contributions pages. I'm an admin and use the latter. After seeing this section I searched for scripts. An admin can install a script like User:X!/userrights.js to get a User rights link in the toolbox on user and user talk pages. This may save one click to the contributions page. I assume a similar script could be made (or already exists?) for all registered users, giving them a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&limit=1&username=DePiep instead of Special:UserRights/DePiep. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:01, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


 * There's User:Gary King/userinfo.js (adapted from User:PleaseStand/userinfo.js who is semi-active), which shows directly on a user page the following (example comes from my own page): "An autopatrolled user, reviewer, and rollbacker, 6 years 10 months old, with 98,068 edits. Last edited 4 minutes ago." Gary King  ( talk  ·  scripts )  01:56, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Popups displays the same info (save "last edited") when you hover over a username. No clicks required! Orange Suede Sofa  (talk) 03:11, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Yep; essentially this is all public information coming from the wiki's API. A lot of other useful information is also accessible with it. Gary King  ( talk  ·  scripts )  03:15, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Village pump (technical)
Any idea why Wikipedia talk:Village pump (technical) is a redirect to this page? All the other WT:VP pages are standalone pages, while talk pages for other leading project pages are either standalone pages (e.g. WT:AN) or redirects to talk pages for parent pages (e.g. WT:RD/H or WT:ANI). Bringing this up here since we obviously don't have a talk page at which to discuss it. Nyttend (talk) 01:03, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I've asked User:Izno, who put the redirect in place. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:14, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Apparently because of the discussions at Wikipedia talk:Village pump/Archive Technical. Graham 87 01:17, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Per the first and last discussion linked by Graham. It would be prudent in my opinion to redirect all the VP talk pages to WT:VP. --Izno (talk) 01:36, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Per the Reference Desk talk pages, I was quite surprised to find that such was not the case with all the VP talk pages. Nyttend (talk) 01:44, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

New account? For real or bullshit?
This account was recently created, but it looks like bullshit; for example the email address is @wikipedia.org, and I am pretty sure all foundation emails are @wikimedia.org. Anyone watching this who is ACTUALLY from the foundation tech team (Vibber? Starling?) care to comment? I am inclined to block, but am waiting for more info... -- Jayron  32  04:04, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Not for real, definitely bullshit. Blocked.  - <span style="font-family:Papyrus, sans-serif; color:#775ca8;">Philippe  05:20, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Expansion of Template:Copied
The discussion at Template talk:Copied could use some outside input. Copied is an important template for WP:Copying within Wikipedia. I'm asking here because I've seen template-savvy users around. Thanks. Flatscan (talk) 04:23, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Article Feedback Tool - can't disable it

 * transferred from Help desk

I have Don't show the Article feedback widget on pages ticked in my preferences, yet the **** thing still keeps appearing on pretty well every page. HELP!! What's worse, I'm mainly working on stubs, which in my view shouldn't be rated anyway. Jan 1 naD (talk • contrib) 19:45, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Did you bypass your browser cache? – ukexpat (talk) 19:59, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, when I first set the preference, but that was a week or two ago. I've just done it again and it works. Do I have to do this every time I restart Windows? I use Firefox 3.6 with XP SP3. Jan 1 naD  (talk • contrib) 20:13, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I take that back. It still keeps doing it. [Ctrl-F5] removes it but it reappears a few pages later. Jan 1 naD  (talk • contrib) 20:24, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, maybe the techies at WP:VPT can help... – ukexpat (talk) 20:44, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

So, can anything be done? Jan 1 naD (talk • contrib) 20:57, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Isn't this the same problem reported at bug #30281? Helder 21:20, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how this 'hiding' works, but how you describe the problem, to me sounds as if you possibly have a faulty javascript/userscript/gadget installed that is interfering with some of the other scripts. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 21:23, 10 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a similar bug, at least. This is the content of my vector.js.

if( typeof( TwinkleConfig ) == 'undefined' ) TwinkleConfig = {}; // DO NOT REMOVE THIS LINE - ALL TWINKLE TwinkleConfig.watchRevertedPages = [ ]; TwinkleConfig.watchWarnings     = false;
 * is that a possible cause? Jan 1 naD  (talk • contrib) 21:34, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

So, I switched out twinkle and commented out the JS, and I can't reproduce the problem. Coincidence? Possibly, I'll keep monitoring it. I haven't used twinkle for some months, so doesn't matter to me. Thanks for the dialogue, though I may be back. Jan 1 naD (talk • contrib) 21:41, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Yep, it's back. Still no fix available. Jan 1 naD (talk • contrib) 14:42, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This is very strange. You and User:Peridon are the only affected users as far as I'm aware. I've looked at both your preferences because I, like TheDJ, suspected Gadgets, but I don't see anything significant that you have in common, other than that Peridon uses Twinkle and you apparently used to. Do I read correctly that disabling Twinkle made the problem go away temporarily, but that it's back now? Could you also answer the same questions that I asked Peridon? --Catrope (talk) 13:13, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the question, Peridon Catrope. It's only happening on FF 3.6, and only on one machine. It must be something to do with cookies or the cache, I've tried clearing the cache but it's obvious I'm not getting it right. I did follow the instructions on WP:Bypass your cache. Jan 1 naD (talk • contrib) 17:02, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Interestingly, Peridon was only able to reproduce this on FF 3.5, so it might be related to the browser version. I've asked him to help me debug it using Firebug. If you feel adventurous, you can do that too; see the instructions I left on Peridon's talk page. --Catrope (talk) 18:19, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

OK, it's happened again, on URL Breton Island, though I doubt the URL is significant. It happened on the first new page after restarting FF. The debug output is: "Reload to activate window console" "enabling javascript debugger to support console" >>> mw.user.options.get('articlefeedback-disable') "1" How do I "send" the screen image to Catrope? I'll repeat this message on his talk page. Jan 1 naD (talk • contrib) 21:33, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Hidden element keeps re-appearing
How can I permanently suppress whatever it is that is telling me that I am "invited to plan and participate in Wikipedia Loves Libraries local events throughout North America this fall" on my watchlist? – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 13:18, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't get that notice on my watchlist, so I'm not sure of the details, but you can probably find some ID or class around the notice and hide it with CSS. Ucucha (talk) 13:28, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * When I looked at the source of the page I couldn't find those words, so I think it must be some kind of Javascript hook involving geolocation. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 13:30, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It's from MediaWiki:Geonotice.js. Geonotice says: The notice can be persistently dismissed using a hide button that is displayed with the message. It can permanently be hidden by adding ".geonotice { display: none; }" to your CSS file. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:53, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Try Firebug, which enables you to see the DOM as it actually is, not just the static HTML source. Looking at MediaWiki:Geonotice.js, something like  is likely to work, but I can't tell exactly which number you need.   will hide any geonotice. Ucucha (talk) 13:56, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, both. (It seems to have re-appeared because it was taken out then put back in) – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 13:59, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Slow
Is there a reason the site's so laggy today? Who crapped on the servers? Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 19:01, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * An external store server died, which caused a bit of downtime. The replication lag is slowly coming back down. Tito xd (?!? - cool stuff) 19:44, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Issue with Article Feedback localization

 * == Article Feedback ==

Why when viewing marks of an article it looks like " 1 NaN оценкиs "? KPu3uC B Poccuu (talk) 05:00, 20 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Fixed in MediaWiki:Articlefeedback-report-ratings/ru on translatewiki.net; might take some time to see it fixed in Wikipedia. — AlexSm 05:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

bits.wikimedia.org not responding on TCP port 80 (for me)
Hi- For weeks now I have been without real Wikipedia, as bits.wikimedia.org is not responding from where I am (time warner, road runner), and I cannot figure out why. It causes pages to load after a long timeout of about 20 seconds, and they are stripped of proper styling (css). From what I can tell, I cannot open a tcp port 80 connection from any of my Windows computers on my home network. My CentOS machine and Android phone work just fine getting to bits.wikimedia.org, but every browser on my Windows machines (and even telneting to bits.wikimedia.org on port 80) are all unsuccessful. I am completely stumped. Any ideas to get me out of this painful jam would be appreciated.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.80.135.81 (talk) 05:16, 20 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It sounds like a DNS change or something hasn't made it towards your computer. Try rebooting your modem first. If that doesn't work, I would advise to contact your ISP, because it seems to be a 'local' issue as we have not seen any other such complaints the last week. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 08:27, 20 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi there- my IP address was previously 75.80.135.81- I am following up on my bits.wikimedia.org connectivity issue, in case anyone else has this problem in the future. I have worked around the issue by changing the MAC address of my router to force a new IP address. My ISP refused to help me any further after they suspected it was my own personal router. I could connect fine from my Windows PC directly connected to the cable modem, but what was ALSO happening is I was being assigned a different IP address. That gave me the idea to force it with my router by changing the MAC. If there is ANY possibility the wikimedia servers are blocking my old IP address, you should look into it, as some poor sap will eventually be as sad as I was, unable to surf Wikipedia in peace.
 * Cheers, and good luck. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.80.128.63 (talk) 00:58, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Secure account
MediaWiki:Loginend sometimes does, but sometimes does not appear at Special:UserLogin when I wish to log in with my account. Why so? --Theurgist (talk) 08:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It is due to the experiment that is being run regarding the welcoming of new users. Several methods are being tried to see what helps people to come into our community and register for an account, and actually stay around. Was announced in both the signpost and on the foundation weblog/mailinglists. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 10:25, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Bug?
For some time now I have trouble with "my" article List of Michelin starred restaurants in the Netherlands. If I change anything and try to save it, it ends up as a Wikimedia error. But if I open the article in another window, the edit has gone through. Not a clue what causes this. It is a 74Kb article, not too big as far as I know. I use Firefox 5.0 under Windows Vista latest version. Night of the Big Wind <sub style="color:maroon;">talk  12:42, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I get the following error message:

Our servers are currently experiencing a technical problem. This is probably temporary and should be fixed soon. Please try again in a few minutes.

You may be able to get further information in the #wikipedia channel on the Freenode IRC network.

The Wikimedia Foundation is a non-profit organisation which hosts some of the most popular sites on the Internet, including Wikipedia. It has a constant need to purchase new hardware. If you would like to help, please donate. If you report this error to the Wikimedia System Administrators, please include the details below. Request: POST http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Michelin_starred_restaurants_in_the_Netherlands&action=submit, from 91.198.174.33 via sq75.wikimedia.org (squid/2.7.STABLE9) to 10.2.1.1 (10.2.1.1) Error: ERR_READ_TIMEOUT, errno [No Error] at Tue, 16 Aug 2011 12:54:06 GMT Night of the Big Wind  <sub style="color:maroon;">talk  12:56, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This happens often when editing large or template-heavy pages. It is annoying but harmless; your edit does go through, you just don't get to see the rendered page. Reloading a few times tends to fix it. Ucucha (talk) 13:21, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * So, a job for the tech-guys with a priority in the "low/average"-band. Night of the Big Wind  <sub style="color:maroon;">talk  17:24, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Tests indicate I have fixed the slow page rendering by changing hundreds of template calls with the same parameters to a new template rating 1 3 with no parameters and only content being the original  . Doing the same for  gave further improvement. I don't know all the details but I think MediaWiki can reuse the result of a transclusion without parameters, so it doesn't have to reparse the transcluded template. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:28, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

The source HTML for the current article shows:

PP limit report Preprocessor node count: 9609/1000000 Post-expand include size: 192907/2048000 bytes Template argument size: 112/2048000 bytes Expensive parser function count: 1/500

And before PrimeHunter's edits it showed:

NewPP limit report Preprocessor node count: 246602/1000000 Post-expand include size: 1696086/2048000 bytes Template argument size: 635687/2048000 bytes Expensive parser function count: 1/500

As you can see, the post-expand include size went from 1.7M to 193k, resulting in a speedier load time. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 16:23, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Strange enough most improvement shows up after the 3 star restaurants were done. I don't have a clue what and why it happened, but I am happy with the result! Night of the Big Wind  <sub style="color:maroon;">talk  17:29, 17 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I have replaced the star-template by one stolen from the Dutch WP newly built. It makes the article bigger, but I have the idea that it loads much quicker. Can somebody test that? Night of the Big Wind  <sub style="color:maroon;">talk  09:15, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The new version renders a little slower for me when it's clicked in the page history. I'm surprised it's not a lot slower. Tell your browser to display the source of a rendered page and search for NewPP to see the statistics posted by Gadget850. Before your change it said:

NewPP limit report Preprocessor node count: 9609/1000000 Post-expand include size: 192907/2048000 bytes Template argument size: 112/2048000 bytes Expensive parser function count: 1/500


 * After your change:

NewPP limit report Preprocessor node count: 39894/1000000 Post-expand include size: 839091/2048000 bytes Template argument size: 86702/2048000 bytes Expensive parser function count: 1/500


 * The increase in post-expand include size is mainly because you changed from templates with no parameters to a template with a parameter. Note there can be a big difference between building time and loading time. Building time is the time to rebuild a page, for example when it is edited or purged, or requested from a non-cached place like a page history. A build of the current version of a page is stored in a cache so it doesn't have to rebuilt each time it's loaded by a reader. Loading time for template-heavy pages can be low and it's low for your version. It was also low for the former version but the time cannot be compared now when it's not cached. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:23, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I've filed this as. <b style="color:forestgreen">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange">melon</b> 11:25, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Stupid ogg player...
Is there a way to fix it's behaviour and improve its appearance? For example, the SHODAN article includes an except of SHODAN's voice.

When it's just there, there's a big music/sound icon on the left, a play button, a tracking bar, timer, the [CC] icon, some horizontal volume volume, and a menu. The three most important thing as far as a user's experience is concerned is 1) the play button 2) tracking bar 3) volume. Yet that tracking bar takes less than a quarter of the listen box. I'm going from 0% to 100% volume in a very very small horizontal space, and the menu some popup overlaps with editfields (like new section name in the previews). Then when the the file is finished playing, the credits automatically pop up, hiding whatever text it happens to spill over. The example given covers a 21-second clip. Try browsing a 20-minute piano piece on that.

So, basically would it be possible to
 * Have a longer time bar?
 * Have a vertical volume bar that pops up from the volume icon, rather than one that's always present?
 * Have the [CC] option shoved in the menu?
 * Not have the credits automatically pop up?

Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 06:09, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The entire Wikimedia-end media player suite needs to be rebuilt. There are numerous other problems that have been identified with it as well. Unfortunately, as far as I am aware, this has been asked for repeatedly over the years, but is sitting near the bottom of a very large list of things that the developers have been asked to do. The sad truth is that this works, mostly, and the developers have to prioritize on things that don't work. Unless we can get a large enough crowd of people asking for a change, or someone does the work for us, this is unlikely to happen. That being said, I'll add my name to the list of people that want a new media suite.  S ven M anguard   Wha?  06:18, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * What HeadBomb is describing (with the CC icon) actually is the next generation player that is currently being developed. Or rather the player is mostly done for the better part of a year now, and most development focus is on supporting transcode backend. In all honesty, I much disagree with the current process. There is a LOAD of features that have be developed and that are 'sort of working' but none is being taken to production, which causes it to miss the refinement that otherwise it would have received. Now soon we have a truckload of unreviewed code, which will take ages to get it deployed into a production environment. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 08:39, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Are you referring to mwembed? P.S. you'd better replace that sound with a free example before the NFCC enforcers get here. MER-C 13:16, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Exactly. The thing is very well skinnable btw, including positioning of the buttons and you can even change the entire layout of the player by adding a new JS player. We currently use the kSkin, but we can easily develop a total new skin + layout, including vertical volume control. Designs (like actual PSDs) are welcome I think. :D —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 14:49, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * As are bug reports against the TimedMediaHandler extension (which is the latest version of the code and can be tested here for video and audio files). We're scheduled to review the current state of TMH in September, which includes (as noted above) player skinnability, but also WebM support for videos, multi-resolution transcoding, subtitling for videos, and other goodies. It's more focused on video than audio, though, and in fact the experience with the current skin may indeed still be worse than the existing player for audio files. TheDJ, I agree the development process here has been far from ideal -- we simply haven't had sufficient critical mass of devs to pair Michael with so that his code can be continually reviewed and deployed into production, as it should have been.--Eloquence* 18:53, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Question - is it possible for two (or more) users to be simultaneously logged into the same account?
Is it possible for more than one person to be logged into an account at the same time? I believe there is a prohibition against users sharing accounts. I am curious if the software prevents two people from attempting to use the same account at the same time. It should be easy to check, but I don't have access to multiple computers or multiple internet connections. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 14:54, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is possible to use one account from two different locations simultaneously. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 14:57, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. Is this by design or is this a deficiency in the software? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:01, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I would consider it to be by design. It would be rather annoying for one session to be forcibly logged out every time you used the account from another location (e.g. in the case of mobile device usage below). – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 15:05, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * it is possible, because its difficult to detect. I use my primary computer, and a mobile device, which have two completely different systems and IP addresses. ΔT <sup style="color:darkred;">The only constant 14:58, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

problems in downloading a wiki book
Hi! Since yesterday me and other 2 friends have tried to download from 5 different computers the pdf version of the Wikipedia book from this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Michael_Jackson. We tried using Mozzila, Internet Explorer and Chrome but no matter what, the download keeps blocking itself at the percentage of 79, 18% and after a while all we can see on the screen is a large message of errors. One of my friends downloaded the odt version of the book as well, but she couldn`t export in on a pdf using Open Office, it`s not working and it keeps blocking again.

What we would really love to be able to download is the pdf version, we were thrilled to see this feature with books on Wikipedia and it would be very helpful for us. I`m not sure if I`m writing this in the right place or not, but I really hope that somebody will be so kind to fix this problem and then everybody will have access to the book in pdf version and be able to enjoy it - and you`ll surely make some people very happy :)

Thank you a lot in advance, all the best to all of you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oecolampade (talk • contribs) 19:04, 22 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Sadly (or not, in the case of a Michael Jackson book), your report is correct and it does indeed flake out towards the end, giving the error message below. I've raised a bugzilla report (

) lest the appropriate people do not monitor this desk closely enough. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:18, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

An error occured on the render server: RuntimeError: command failed with returncode 9: ['mw-render', '-w', 'rl', '-c', 'cache/48/4800eaaaa2d3b6af/collection.zip', '-o', 'cache/48/4800eaaaa2d3b6af/output.rl', '--status', 'qserve://localhost:14311/4800eaaaa2d3b6af:render-rl', '--template-blacklist', 'MediaWiki:PDF Template Blacklist', '--template-exclusion-category', 'Exclude in print', '--print-template-prefix', 'Print', '--print-template-pattern', '$1/Print', '--language', 'en'] Last Output: 8% laying out "Black or White"2011-08-22T20:13:30 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=445173320' 79.1648351648% laying out "Remember the Time"79.1648351648% laying out "Remember the Time"2011-08-22T20:13:32 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=445173320' 79.1648351648% laying out "Remember the Time"79.1648351648% laying out "Remember the Time"2011-08-22T20:13:34 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444726830' 79.1648351648% laying out "In the Closet"79.1648351648% laying out "In the Closet"2011-08-22T20:13:35 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444726830' 79.1648351648% laying out "In the Closet"79.1648351648% laying out "In the Closet"2011-08-22T20:13:37 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=446113565' 79.1648351648% laying out "Jam"79.1648351648% laying out "Jam"2011-08-22T20:13:38 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=446113565' 79.1648351648% laying out "Jam"79.1648351648% laying out "Jam"2011-08-22T20:13:39 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444833686' 79.1648351648% laying out "Who Is It"79.1648351648% laying out "Who Is It"2011-08-22T20:13:40 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444833686' 79.1648351648% laying out "Who Is It"79.1648351648% laying out "Who Is It"2011-08-22T20:13:43 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444752539' 79.1648351648% laying out "Heal the World"79.1648351648% laying out "Heal the World"2011-08-22T20:13:44 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444752539' 79.1648351648% laying out "Heal the World"79.1648351648% laying out "Heal the World"2011-08-22T20:13:45 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444855398' 79.1648351648% laying out "Give In to Me"79.1648351648% laying out "Give In to Me"2011-08-22T20:13:46 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444855398' 79.1648351648% laying out "Give In to Me"79.1648351648% laying out "Give In to Me"2011-08-22T20:13:48 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444833574' 79.1648351648% laying out "Will You Be There"79.1648351648% laying out "Will You Be There"2011-08-22T20:13:49 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444833574' 79.1648351648% laying out "Will You Be There"79.1648351648% laying out "Will You Be There"2011-08-22T20:13:51 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444999506' 79.1648351648% laying out "Gone Too Soon"79.1648351648% laying out "Gone Too Soon"2011-08-22T20:13:52 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444999506' 79.1648351648% laying out "Gone Too Soon"79.1648351648% laying out "Gone Too Soon"2011-08-22T20:13:56 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444600753' 79.1648351648% laying out "Scream/Childhood"79.1648351648% laying out "Scream/Childhood"2011-08-22T20:13:58 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444600753' 79.1648351648% laying out "Scream/Childhood"79.1648351648% laying out "Scream/Childhood"2011-08-22T20:14:02 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444829243' 79.1648351648% laying out "You Are Not Alone"79.1648351648% laying out "You Are Not Alone"2011-08-22T20:14:04 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=444829243' 79.1648351648% laying out "You Are Not Alone"79.1648351648% laying out "You Are Not Alone"2011-08-22T20:14:08 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=446176681' 79.1648351648% laying out "Earth Song"79.1648351648% laying out "Earth Song"2011-08-22T20:14:09 rlwriter.info >> rendering: u'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=446176681' 79.1648351648% laying out "Earth Song"79.1648351648% laying out "Earth Song" in function system, file /home/pp/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/mwlib-0.12.14-py2.6-linux-x86_64.egg/EGG-INFO/scripts/nslave.py, line 37

Center a table with CSS
I'd like to center horizontally a wikitable that sits in a template (which "I" control). So far, I've used. Since I could not find  used this way in my CSS-help it might be deprecated or so. On the other hand, since it works in IE too, I might stick to it. (So far, I learned about: text-align -- not relevant; set width and margin auto -- strange; if any interior boxes have a float, set it to float:none) -DePiep (talk) 13:07, 22 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I was thinking the same thing, and found the same solution you did in my old CSS book. At some point (not sure if it was 2 or 2.1) that seems to have been deprecated.  From here, I think you want to play with the margin properties - "If both 'margin-left' and 'margin-right' are 'auto', their used values are equal. This horizontally centers the element with respect to the edges of the containing block."  I didn't test it, but I also found something on a forum about using 'margin: 0px auto;' as the style.  Also, found an article here that looks helpful.  Kinda interesting stuff (although I admit that I like the simplicty of align="center") <b style="color:darkred;">Ravensfire</b> ( talk ) 15:40, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I like the CSS-documented margin auto option, but half of my google hits claim exceptions for IE in this topic. And I saw the set 'margin: 0px auto;' option too, but only in combination with setting the outer block (which should be the page, which I correctly do not control). -DePiep (talk) 16:13, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The correct way is indeed to set the margin to auto on both left and right.
 * Don't worry about IE. Since Wikipedia sends a correct doctype, IE7+ will interpret the margins correctly, and not enough people still use IE6 to really, really, worry about it. --Izno (talk) 16:40, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I documented this at Help:Table ages ago. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 17:31, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you all. And Gadget, I had not found that one recently. But hey, since I got nice & good CSS work reverted with es like "no, doesn't work" or "no, it messes up the page" (EI around the corner), I've become wary of trying new (new to me) stuff. -DePiep (talk) 22:42, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Using  as the Help:Table link proposes seems to add rows above and below (outside of the table). Will continue testing with 0em. -DePiep (talk) 21:02, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Unnecessary heading reminder
A few moments ago I placed Template:Clickmap ~ on the talk page of another use to notify that user that a template has been tagged for speedy deletion. The template produces its hown section heading when substituted on a user talk page. Nevertheless I got multiple reminders to provide a heading for the talk page message. This is really unnecessary and quite a bit of an annoyance. Can this somehow be fixed? Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 14:46, 23 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I would guess it was the option prompt me when entering a blank edit summary in editing preferences. If your reminder was Missingcommentheader that means you clicked "new section" ("+") tab on user talk page. When you add a template with own header you are supposed to click "edit" tab (in which case you would see Missingsummary reminder anyway). — AlexSm 15:18, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Another silly View Source issue
Some minutes ago, I viewed 92nd United States Congress, which only displayed a View Source tab, but I was able to edit it and thus made this edit. I believed that something was wrong with the system, since although I left the window up for several minutes, it never showed the edit as being done. I've moved to a different computer, which shows the edit in the system, and which also displays an Edit tab properly. 156.56.171.216 (talk) 21:09, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Delay in updating the search index
resolved label added by User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 02:22, 25 August 2011 (UTC) The Search Index has not been updated since 12 August. Help:Searching says this should be reported here. These backlogs frustrate us WikiGnomes in our tidying up, and we get a huge backlog of spelling, grammar and other mistakes to correct when it is eventually updated. Any idea when it might be updated? Arjayay (talk) 14:26, 15 August 2011 (UTC) It is 6 days now - should I be contacting someone else? (If so, why does it say report it here?) Arjayay (talk) 07:46, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I was just going to mention that myself. Maile66 (talk) 21:43, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Still not been updated - any news? Arjayay (talk) 15:44, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe this is related to 29679 / 26304? Helder 16:33, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It was 26304 last time see here - but I'm not tech-savvy enough to know what to do, even if I knew which bug it is.
 * Inasmuch as this has been going on a while, it would be helpful if any Editor who underrstands the jargon found on 26304 could enlighten us. Fine to say the un-updated search index might, or might not be, related to that particular bug.  But it also seems that particular bug has been open since December 2010. Can anyone enlighten us? Maile66 (talk) 21:41, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It appears that they've narrowed the issue down to a single line of code and are trying to debug it as of 18 August. I've logged in and voted for the Bug.  I would suggest that you (all people concerned) do the same. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 00:15, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, was away from computers. Yes, it is 26304 again, I've skipped some time in the index update and the index should update by day after tomorrow. --rainman (talk) 21:18, 20 August 2011 (UTC) Arjayay (talk) 15:42, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * So far, it does not appear to have updated. Maile66 (talk) 15:01, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I think it has - all my standard check searches were up to date at 07.30 UTC this morning.
 * Nope. Any new page I've created in the last week or so, do not show up on the search yet.Maile66 (talk) 15:48, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Without wishing to contradict Maile66, an article I created an hour or so ago, Camphill Column, Alnwick is found through the search index, albeit it is not offered as an autocomplete option. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:56, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, I think you nailed it. My new pages do not come up on the autocomplete.  And, yes, I can find the pages the old fashioned way by typing the entire name.  But I was referring to autocomplete, also mentioned on another user inquiry down on this page Here.So, I guess that part hasn't updated yet. Maile66 (talk) 16:09, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

The autocomplete updates some 6-8h after the main index, and as far as I see, all updates went through. --rainman (talk) 09:16, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Problems uploading images
I am trying to replace File:NES R.C. Pro Am.png, but I keep getting errors when I try to. I tried both replacing the image and uploading it under a new name, and I get the same errors. Anyone else have this problem? –MuZemike 04:20, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * What error? ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 04:28, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It appears that there is a new version at File:NES R.C. Pro Am.png; can we presume this was resolved? Skier Dude  ( talk ) 05:01, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


 * There is a new image timestamped "03:59, 24 August 2011". However, when images seem to not be replaced, then back-up and try putting "&action=purge" in the browser's URL address line. Otherwise, delete all browser cache files (such as: <Tools><Internet options><Delete files> or <Tool><Clear history>...), and then view the file page. -Wikid77 20:11, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the problem was when I tried to delete the previous version because I thought the same version as before was uploaded. I then tried to reupload again, which prompted me with a message that there was already a deleted version of the image I was trying to upload. I tried to bypass the warning as well as trying to submit with the warning, and I got the standard WMF error on both instances. I ended up restoring everything, and that was when the updated image appeared. I normally bypass the cache, but for some reason, the new image didn't show up (but now it does). –MuZemike 04:17, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Deprecation of Collapsible tables and NavFrames
Hi!

I've updated the sandbox version of Template:Hidden and some test cases in order to help in the migration from Collapsible tables and NavFrames to the jQuery.makeCollapsible plugin. Could someone test if the test cases are working on browsers not yet listed under the #Compatibility section? Except for the cursor change when using Windows (described in the second topic listed below), which I think could be fixed by adding some extra CSS rules to MediaWiki:Common.css, the template is working as usual and I think it could be updated to the new version.

See also: Helder 19:12, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * User talk:Pdfpdf/Archive23
 * Village pump (technical)/Archive 87
 * There is some problem with the header text annoyingly jumping left when expanded which it does not do with the existing. Monobook/Firefox 3.6. Keith D (talk) 22:12, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I can confirm this behavior on Chromium 12.0.742.112 (90304) and Firefox 5, using Ubuntu 11.04 and both on vector and monobook.
 * I think the cause is the difference in the lenght of the texts "Expand" and "Collapse" which are used in the toggles. Adding the following CSS fixed the problem for me:


 * (making sure that 70px is great enought for both texts). Helder 14:47, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there a bug reported for that? --Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 20:49, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Not yet, I think . Helder 23:19, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Reported on Bug 30402. Helder 18:10, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

IMHO, the animation gets boring after a while (too slow?). --Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 19:53, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Reported on Bug 30401. Helder 18:10, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

It will also be necessary to add new selectors to the section of MediaWiki:Common.css which defines the default styles for elements having,  ,   and  , so that they are also applied to elements having   and. Helder 21:35, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Which styles are needed? The most obvious difference is the font size, but I haven't tested with tables or other more complex things. --Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 03:45, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Since the script from MediaWiki:Common.js tests if each div in the page has NavFrame class before creating the toggle buttons, I think any styles which are associated to NavFrame class will be needed, because mw-collapsible can't be added without removing NavFrame (to avoid this overlap of buttons from each script). The NavContent class doesn't seems to cause any problem if we use it together with mw-collapsible. Since the formatting of NavHead is defined by


 * and the formatting of NavContent by


 * these only works if NavFrame is also present in the parent element, which is not possible because of the conflict previously mentioned. So, I think it is enought to add to MediaWiki:Common.css the lines highlighted below:


 * Could someone review this so that we could request the addition of the new selectors to MediaWiki:Common.css Helder 16:46, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Option to remove sections in User talk page
Following an idea of Jimmy Wales I would like to suggest that we add an option to remove sections from User talk space, available only for the talk page's owner. We could add an option to the preferences if the removed section would automatically be copied to the clipboard for archiving purposes.

This option is useful for quick archiving, removing talkback templates when dealt with them, etc.

The feature could be "Facebook-like" with an [X] next to the [Edit] in each section, which will be visible only for the talk page owner. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:35, 17 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't get it. You can hit Edit, select all text (or Command- or Control-A), backspace, press Save Changes.  Versus X and Confirm.  I doubt you need to delete talk page sections all that often that we need to carry around a new script in memory the whole time we're reading Wikipedia just to avoid those two extra steps. Wnt (talk) 14:47, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Whilst blanking the section is as easy as that, I still think an [X] would be a good idea for the user on their own talk page (with a suitable "Are you sure?" provision). Is this the right forum? Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 15:16, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * If all you need is a chunk of javascript for your own personal use, there's doubtless somebody here with the necessary skills who can write an add-on for your Special:MyPage/skin.js or Special:MyPage/common.js. If this is to be a general change for all users, it would need an amendment to MediaWiki, so would have to go through Bugzilla. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:45, 17 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Definitely sounds like a good idea for a script. The appropriate place for script requests is WikiProject User scripts/Requests, where a lot of scripters watch. Of course, they also watch this page as well, so someone with the right amount of free time should catch this. Gary King  ( talk  ·  scripts )  19:24, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Redrose64, if someone writes a script to do this, we could place it in MediaWiki:Common.js here on enwiki; no need for Bugzilla. Ucucha (talk) 22:47, 17 August 2011 (UTC)


 * This is just me, but making it available to the user of whom the talk page is for seems a bit like a possible WP:OWN violation to me. Good idea, nonetheless. I could be wrong on the "possible WP:OWN violation" part, however. LikeLakers2 (talk) 22:24, 17 August 2011 (UTC),
 * To be blunt, you are wrong. Please note that the full title of WP:OWN is "Ownership of articles" and therefore does not apply to user talk pages. Jenks24 (talk) 22:31, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually Jenks, its you who is wrong here. You should read the whole page, specifically OWN--<font color="Blue">Jac <font color="Green">16888 Talk 22:44, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll clarify. OWN only applies to user space in that you can not have anything you want on your user/talk page (e.g. advertising, attacks, copvios, BLP vios, etc. will be removed). OWN in no way says you can't remove content from your talk page if you want to (see WP:TPO), which is what this discussion is about. My "you are wrong comment" was referring to LL2's "possible WP:OWN violation" comment. Jenks24 (talk) 22:59, 17 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Indeed; since we're talking about a user talk page rather than the user page, I think I recall reading somewhere that if a user removes a warning on their talk page, for instance, then it would count as them reading and acknowledging it. So this script would in no way change how policy is interpreted, etc. Gary King  ( talk  ·  scripts )  00:11, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Second that. Removing a section from own talk page is only a special case of editing own page which is totally appropriate when it follows policy rules. It's an option that will make things easier for lot of people who don't like talkback messages or people who like to archive sections after some time. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:44, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

This discussion caught my interest and I made a script to do talk page archiving by section. Its documentation is at User:Bility/Archive Talk Sections if anyone wants to give it a try. I think I will add functionality to just remove the section instead of archiving it, as that is simple and the script already contains the code to do it. Cheers, — Bility (talk) 22:45, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That's great! I'll give it a try. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:47, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Template:NoSpam
I noticed that NoSpam was used at the new, slimmed-down User:Jimbo Wales like this:, which displays as.

For comparison, here it is without nowrap:, which displays as.

Some checking shows that nowrap is desirable to avoid ugly wrapping. If agreed, perhaps an admin would incorporate nowrap into NoSpam. Johnuniq (talk) 02:41, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea. After some testing, I'm going to add the nowrap HTML to nospam. Considering the number of transclusions of nospam (13 000+), I'm not sure putting nowrap inside it is worth it. -- Luk  talk 10:14, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

The black text (#000) on white (#FFF) background is unbearable.
The high contrast between #000 and #FFF as the copy style on articles is not readable for extended periods of time.

Currently I'm using Firefox's Stylish extension to manually change the text color to a gray (#444), but really I believe Wikipedia should strongly consider changing the text color globally so it doesn't kill people's eyes.

Take a look at this side by side comparison. The text on the left is what the current Wiki style is, while the right has the text changed to the color #444 using Stylish:

http://www.majorindulgence.com/file_exchange_data/50/wikipedia-readability-issues.png

Much better right? The exact HEX value can be more fine tuned, but you get the point.

I want to push for Wikipedia to implement this change. :D — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.19.2.26 (talk) 08:00, 22 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The link you provided seems to want to redirect to another page, though not successfully (at least for me). I've inactivated it (I'm not a big fan of redirects on strange websites), though of course anyone is free to copy/paste the URL into their browser.  Please provide a better link.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 14:10, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

I just created WP:ZENBURN as a partial implementation of a less-painful color scheme. Feel free to complete the implementation, or just use the partial one I've set up so far. -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:00, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

How would this be an improvement? Most monitors have easily accessible contrast or brightness settings. Plus lousier the screen (e.g. many netbooks), the more #444 (dark gray) is going to be indistinguishable from #fff (white). — Dispenser 19:37, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * And don't forget about people with poor eyesight. Anomie⚔ 21:09, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I also changed my background. It's set to a light blue User:Enric_Naval/vector.css. With the default background my eyes hurt just after a few minutes. --Enric Naval (talk) 21:37, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Very slow when logged in
I've noticed of late that being logged out provides much faster loading on Wikipedia than when I'm logged in.... any ideas of why and could it be "fixed"? --Kmg90 (talk) 12:25, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Is your username's Special:Preferences page set to Monobook, or Vector, or some other skin? Do you have extra Javascript being loaded into your copy of monobook.js, or such? -Wikid77 20:03, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


 * At first I went and dug around in my preference I did have some custom .js running on monobook, but I tried disabling the custom code and saw no improvement or change. I did try changing back to Vector and still didn't see any improvements. Finally, I decided to just reset all the settings to default... immediately  noticed improvement, since then even after reapplying some of the settings back to what they were, the speed is still improved.. --Kmg90 (talk) 21:07, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Pages load faster when logged out because they are served from the squiddies. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 15:08, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Reflist column problems
I happened to be looking at Western State University College of Law, and I noticed that the causes (on my configuration) reference 11 to be split between the columns.
 * Browser: Opera 11.50 (build 1074)
 * Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en) Presto/2.9.168 Version/11.50
 * OS: Windows XP (home) (I don't know the SP's loaded)
 * Screen size 1280 × 1024

Is this a known problem with ? — Arthur Rubin (talk) 22:30, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've noticed it before (in Firefox on a Mac); on that page, ref. 10 gets split into two columns when I make my browser screen a bit narrower.
 * I'm not sure this is necessarily a problem. There may be some CSS-based solution for it, but I don't know of one. Ucucha (talk) 21:41, 23 August 2011 (UTC)


 * This is a known issue with widows and orphans and it used to be documented at reflist. If anyone with CSS fu knows a fix... ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 23:09, 23 August 2011 (UTC)


 * There are as of yet unsupported CSS properties like  that has to be appied to each list item, but they are draft and not yet functional. <span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif"> —  Edokter  ( talk ) — 17:08, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Rate this Page template
Rate this Page template seems to have appeared on all pages- I missed the proposal or discussion. I find it irritating. I am editing stubs of villages in the Gard eg Logrian-Florian a page viewed about 50-70 times a month.

Couldn't the template be made less intrusive and more relevant by a little conditional coding. For stubs, it should be smaller than the text content, and the Complete/ well written questions just make Wikipedia look ridiculous? I support the template as is- for B, GA, FA but it should be contextualised for Starts, Stubs and C.

Any thoughts?--ClemRutter (talk) 08:45, 28 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It is not a template; the Article Feedback Tool is part of the MediaWiki software. You discuss it at the discussion page for the Article Feedback Tool workgroup. You may disable the tool by setting . ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 09:45, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You actually probly should be commenting [] - which is the current page for article feedback on mediawiki.Nigel Ish (talk) 12:54, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

API usage to view deleted file
I'd like to be able to view a deleted image via the API. However, the API only allows me to view deleted edits. Is there a way to view a deleted image file through the API, or would I have to put together a hack of the HTML?

Also, if it is possible, is it possible to create a thumbnailed version, like it is with all non-deleted images in the history of a file? Magog the Ogre (talk) 18:22, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You can get deleted file metadata through list=filearchive but not the deleted files themselves. MER-C 03:18, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Oh; why not a link? Is this something I should file in Bugzilla? Magog the Ogre (talk) 16:51, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is in the deployment pipeline, so go ahead. MER-C 04:43, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup banner for articles with non-English text, lacking appropriate markup
I have created Cleanup-lang, for articles with non-English text, which should use Lang but do not yet do so. Suggestions for improvements would be welcome. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 21:36, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Whether article Talk pages are auto-signed
Hi. Shouldn't article Talk pages be auto-signed? I see several topics on Talk:Potato that haven't been signed. Trafford09 (talk) 10:51, 29 August 2011 (UTC)


 * You have 5,776 edits. User:SineBot says:


 * It ignores unsigned comments from people with lots of edits (>800), as it assumes that they should know better by that point. To re-enable autosigning of your unsigned comments, you can place  on your User: or User talk: page and wait a few minutes for it to take effect.  See the corresponding template page for more info.
 * PrimeHunter (talk) 13:33, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Test results, one clear suggestion and some vague ones
Just a pointer, please read this thread.//Hannibal (talk) 13:13, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Vandalism/Mistake
Hello everybody,

The reason why I write here is to warn you that someone, not signed and may be without good intentions, has changed the content the page Albizia. I think that someone should undo the last two updades. I'm sorry but I don't have user in English Wikipedia and I don't want to change the content from other language projects. I'm Sng user from Catalan Wikipedia (Viquipèdia).

Sorry for my pocket english. Good luck and have fun.--212.170.156.253 (talk) 14:12, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Fixed it, thank you for letting us know--<font color="Blue">Jac <font color="Green">16888 Talk 14:26, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Protection log doesn't show correct expiry date
I semi-protected the article 15 (number) for 3 days, but the resulting edit summary shows the expiry dates the same as the start date. In case I had made a mistake I did it again, carefully, with the same result. Semi-protection seems to be on, it's only the edit summary and protection log that are wrong. JohnCD (talk) 15:04, 29 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Today is the 29th of August, and three days from now is the 1st of September, so I don't think there's anything wrong here. Graham 87 15:21, 29 August 2011 (UTC)


 * As far as I can tell, it shows that the expiry will expire on 1 September . – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk  15:21, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You're quite right, my brain was switched off, time to get up and go and do something else. Sorry! JohnCD (talk) 15:47, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Srinivasa Ramanujan sections are broken, please fix
Thanks in advance! ‫·‏לערי ריינהארט‏·‏T‏·‏m‏:‏Th‏·‏T‏·‏email me‏·‏‬ 14:39, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Someone tried to format the See also in two columns by wrapping it in a but forgot to close it, forcing the rest of the page into columns. If you want to use columns, see columns. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 15:22, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

How 2 change template on Wikiproject main page
I put up messages on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Palestine about changing an error in one of the templates that make up the main page. I haven't the faintest idea how these templates work. If someone could direct me to right technical page I'll try to figure it out. (Please reply at my wikiproject or my talk page or I might miss it.)

If someone wants to be a good Samaritan and fix it as well the problem is: In the Advertising section under Ongoing content discussion there is the text: To invite other users — who solidly contribute to Palestine-related articles — to join this Project, add this message to their talk page. This just repeats the "invite" template on top and doesn't have a link. Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:50, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Fixed, I hope, with this edit. If this isn't what you wanted, the page you need to edit is this one. -- John of Reading (talk) 19:10, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Error messages while saving
I keep getting error messages while editing, when I go to save or see preview I get redirected to Wikimedia Foundation Error. General I get it on List articles, but occasionally on season articles. I tried clearing cookies & browsing related stuff on my computer but it hasn't helped. I need a solution as its getting extremely irritating & it has limited my productivity. (&#9733;&#9734; DUCK IS JAMMMY &#9734;&#9733;) 18:09, 30 August 2011 (UTC))

The number of pages a template is transcluded in?
I have been fiddling around with Template:High-risk, trying to create a version which automatically lists the number of pages a template is used in (see ), instead of typing it in manually, as is advocated in Template:High-risk/doc. I am currently using  as a placeholder variable for the one I actually need, just to demonstrate that the thing works (  so that the number is greater than 1,550, but still rounds down, to show that that part works, too). Now, my question is, is there a magic word (or whatnot) for the number of transclusions a template has? I have found Wikipedia:Database reports/Templates transcluded on the most pages which is updated by BernsteinBot (i.e. not in real-time), but am not really sure how I would fetch numbers from there or do anything useful with it. Thanks in advance. <font color="#006600">It Is Me Here  <font color="#CC6600">t / <font color="#CC6600">c 11:51, 30 August 2011 (UTC)


 * There isn't any magic word and if added would be an expensive function. It could work with JavaScript  and something like ~dispenser/cgi-bin/embeddedincount.py.  — Dispenser 16:14, 30 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I still don't understand how to put the above into a template? <font color="#006600">It Is Me Here  <font color="#CC6600">t / <font color="#CC6600">c 11:17, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Basically, you can't: there is no magic word. How often do you need (want) the figures updating? You can also create categories and use the "Number in category" magic word, which is NUMINCAT or NUMBERINCAT or something else, I forget :) - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 11:22, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * <sup style="color:red;">Avic <sub style="color:blue;">ennasis @ 02:50, 2 Elul 5771 / 02:50, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Template category issue
All the templates like Template:Done and Template:Awaiting are incorrectly showing up in Category:Article message boxes. The reason is that Template:Merge done is an ambox, and it is transcluded on all the doc pages. Could someone please fix this so that the erroneous categorization is removed? (Methinks it may require modification of ambox.) Thanks, — This, that, and the other (talk) 10:58, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * These things would be so much easier to fix with 835. I have just voted on it but don't hold my breath. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:57, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Who is watching?
Is there a "Who is watching this page?" tool? JohnCD (talk) 20:35, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No, because that would violate the privacy of watchlists, but there is a "how many people are watching this page?" tool. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 20:37, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's good enough. JohnCD (talk) 20:48, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It has a bottom of "<30" over concerns that vandals might use it to target unwatched pages, I believe. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 23:05, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, unless your name is on this list. Graham 87 01:01, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

URL problem
Hi,

At the Entertainment Reference Desk today, I tried linking a Google URL, but Wikipedia seems to stop considering the text string a URL after the first question mark. Is there a fix?

Comet Tuttle (talk) 21:45, 2 September 2011 (UTC)


 * It's the quotes that are breaking the URL. Fixed. If you copy the URL from your browser then paste it it should show the URL with the proper code rather than using quotes. Gary King  ( talk  ·  scripts )  21:49, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Bug on Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
In ==Bilbiolography==, the second entry has the wall street journal broken up. This is probably a bug that needs to be reported to bugzilla.Curb Chain (talk) 02:25, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing it. Do you mean it's breaking onto a second line? --Elen of the Roads (talk) 02:54, 3 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Known issue with reference lists generated by reflist causing widows and orphans. There are some CSS selectors that will fix this, but they aren't supported by browsers yet. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 03:27, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Please increase width of header boxes
This page has a header box 'Template:Village pump pages'. It extends almost all the way from left to right. Lots of other pages e.g. Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style have headers with blank space at left and right so the headers consume vertical space. These boxes seem to grow like coral in a variety of forms as well-intentioned editors in many different talk pages add extra messages. One simple improvement would be to increase the width to reduce the length (so they match 'Template:Village pump pages'). I don't know where to start. Can somebody help? Lightmouse (talk) 10:43, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. When the content of that header is getting big, it should not act as an "tmbox" any more. It should use (near) 100% width. The width for your example page is set, for similar talkpage headers, by  in the . An editprotect will be needed there. -DePiep (talk) 11:02, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Many pages use several headers so it's worth thinking about how this would be rolled out. An individual request on a 'per header' basis leads to understandable responses like: Template_talk:Talk_header. The coordination and justification is more than I can solve by myself. Lightmouse (talk) 11:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, so you were there already :-). I'd say: just copy your request into a new "proposal" section overthere. Might propose "width should stay 80% by default, but have the option to set to other an percentage like 100%". &rarr; . (or, it could be constructed a switch between just two options: 80% or 100% only). -DePiep (talk) 11:34, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Done. I didn't realise that was the key page, I just see a whole mishmash of multiple wordy headers in many pages. See Proposal: option for maximum width. Anyone reading this, feel free to add further comments over there. Thanks. Lightmouse (talk) 11:46, 1 September 2011 (UTC)


 * That didn't work. Any other suggestions? Lightmouse (talk) 11:58, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That didn't work mostly because that was the wrong place to have it. Talk header uses one of those "class=mbox" thing, and the proper place to discuss this would be in the css central, or whatever it is. Because this would affect all wikiproject banners, talk page history templates, etc.... Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 18:30, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No, "that din't work" was about one single objection (and an undecisive one at that). Of course, is the place where it is set, so where it is to be discussed. But alas, Headbomb, it will bog down somewhere somehow. What was the time you reached a change of habit here? It's all grey bearded admins. -DePiep (talk) 23:11, 1 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Try to remove many and widen most-common boxes: There are so many boxes, the solutions must be geared to those boxes which are seen most often (optimize by 80/20 Rule): fix the "20%" of banners seen in 80% of articles. There are several methods:
 * Collapse/hide numerous talk-page banners.
 * Join WP:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Backlog elimination drives/September 2011 - to remove copy-edit banners in 500 active articles (every 2 months)
 * Edit Template:Multiple issues to widen that banner (used in over 36,000 pages)
 * Join efforts to suppress maintenance-banners and merely list the page in a category.
 * Start a "Bannerholics Anonymous" to get people to stop vanity-tagging numerous pages with grandstanding banners.
 * Those are several ways to improve thousands of pages within a few months. This is an important issue because many users view WP pages in narrowed windows, set to mimic A4 paper or 8.5x11 upright pages, where most banners are narrow and force the page taller. Many minor banners remain in pages for over 2 years. -Wikid77 20:21, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Decisive talk now is at Template_talk:Talk_header. Not here. -DePiep (talk) 21:00, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Wikid77 makes very good points. Another simple solution has just occured to me: That can be done without admin involvement. We only need local agreement to swap the narrow template for the wide one. Lightmouse (talk) 11:35, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Create wide templates that duplicate narrow templates e.g. at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (using 'Template:Village pump pages' for design inspiration).
 * That would be a bad idea. We tried for years to get the templates unified and consistent, because it was a frenzy of colors and forms. Separating it all in a 'local' page by page fashion would undue that work and would increase the clutter again. Just get consensus and any admin will change whatever the consensus wants changed. And don't insinuate that admins are a bunch of 'lazy, non-complying, old farts'. Admins are admins because of their experience and the trust they have within the community. BTW, we really could use a few more tech admins, the pool is starting to drain. If you know good candidates, please nominate them. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 12:40, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * TheDJ: don't insinuate that admins are .... You're right, TheDJ. Now who did so, and where? -DePiep (talk) 20:58, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm not aware of anyone that suggested admins are 'lazy, non-complying, old farts'. This discussion isn't about judging anyone. It's merely about trying to get an edit to a protected template simply to eliminate wasted blank horizontal space and regain valuable vertical space. Lightmouse (talk) 13:10, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * This was first raised at MoS talk, where I saw it, and where there was a huge yellow mass of boxes at the top—some of them, in my view, redundant. The "skip to ToC" button is fine, but isn't a full solution. So yes, I agree that anything that can be done to reduce the vertical stretch of these boxes should be considered.  Tony   (talk)  13:15, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Symbols in html links changed when typing "wikipedia" instead of "wikimedia"
This may be hard to explain, so I'll do my best. At WP:BN, Xeno a link to Meta that confirms the desysopping of an administrator. But clicking Xeno's link in question on the "normal" Wikipedia server showed an irrelevant log entry; the "Title" box was, strangely enough, empty but was written in the initial link. After comparing the incorrect link to the correct one, I noticed that there may be a bug in how the MediaWiki software handles incorrectly written links. Xeno's initial link is meta.wikipedia.org instead of meta.wikimedia.org. The MediaWiki software correctly redirects to wikimedia, but also incorrectly changes the html code for @ (%40) to %2540, making the "Title" box empty. If you write http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=rights&page=User:Freakofnurture%40enwiki&limit=1&offset=201108 it works fine. I then found out that the MediaWiki software adds "25" before whatever number you write after "%". Is there an explanation for this behavior? Hey Mid  (contribs) 13:51, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * FYI the meta.wikipedia link seems to have arisen because I used user:js/urldecoder.js to rewrite the secure link. Will advise script owner. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 14:09, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The user:js/urldecoder.js issue explains why Xeno's link had a "p" instead of "m", but it does not explain why the MediaWiki software adds "25" after the "%" part of the link. Hey  Mid  (contribs) 14:26, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Interestingly, the links works fine on the secure server. There is a double encoding issue going on somewhere (%25 is the url encoding for %); arguably the reason for the error is that Xeno should have written "Freakofnurture@enwiki" in the link instead of "Freakofnurture%40enwiki". Ucucha (talk) 15:41, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess the reason why the link works fine on the secure server is because the software correctly translates the link into secure server format. Also, the theory probably is that the software doesn't think the "40" part is related to "%" when incorrectly typing .wikipedia instead of .wikimedia, and the software instead handles the % and 40 parts seperately when auto-correcting the link; this means using the actual symbols work, and explains why Firefox doesn't note the "25" part when hovering over the link. But this issue isn't isolated to the MediaWiki software, I guess; for example, wikEd does the same thing. I guess that making the URL encoders start ignoring the "%" symbol (i.e. don't see it as a separate part of the URL) is the solution to the problem. Hey  Mid  (contribs) 15:55, 2 September 2011 (UTC) Modified 17:17, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No, that is not the solution. That is a workaround :D The solution is that the systems that each do an encode need to be identified so that it can be judged if one of the systems is simply acting incorrectly, or that this problem is simply unavoidable. So when we look at the data, we see:

Request URL:http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=rights&page=User:Freakofnurture%40enwiki&limit=1&offset=201108 Status Code:301 Moved Permanently Response Headers Location:http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=rights&page=User:Freakofnurture%2540enwiki&limit=1&offset=201108
 * So the URL redirect is the first location of the problem. I think the %40 in the original url is proper, so that means the redirector is doing something wrong. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 11:59, 3 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with TheDJ: if server tries to correct meta.wikipedia into meta.wikimedia it has do it correctly. P.S. urlDecoder script is already fixed. — AlexSm 16:40, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

faster alternative to mwdumper
I am looking for a faster alternative to using mwdumper for importing mediawiki xml dumps or simply something faster than opening the mwdumper.jar file and importing one at a time. I had used wget to download the xmls one by one for large articles and there are a few hundreds that I need to import.

the command java -jar mwdumper.jar --format=sql:1.5 page1.xml | mysql -u username -d databasename does not seem to be working on Windows command line. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SwJ (talk • contribs) 05:00, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The documentation assumes you are using a command line and/or operating system that's actually useful, like bash on Linux. There are various ways you can install bash on Windows, such as via Cygwin. Shell scripts can help you with the downloading and parsing without human intervention, Google for tutorials. MER-C 12:41, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Why is this article still displaying as a GA?
Someone started the talk page of The Corre (professional wrestling) with an assessment of GA. At the time, it was completely unreferenced, let alone the possibility of its having passed a GAN. I removed the assessment, and the next day reassessed it as start class. The article itself has been heavily edited in the meantime as well. Despite all this, the article still loads saying it is a "good article" and (since I use that gadget) displaying with a green title. Why is this, and how can we fix it? Lady of  Shalott  11:32, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It's just the result that is locally cached in your browser. It shows up just fine for me. The caching makes the gadget less resource intense (because basically it is causing you to open two pages every time you visit an article). —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 11:41, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I cleared my cache, and that did resolve it. Thanks!  Lady  of  Shalott  12:01, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Cannot preview changes on pages before saving
Ever since I've bought, my computer I have had this problem. I makes changes in an article, then press the "Show Button" to get a preview of my work before saving it. But when I do, I get the infamous "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" message which offers to diagnose connection problems, which of course never solve anything. I also get this same message if I press the "Save page" button instead of the "Show preview" button, but at least my edits get saved. I suspect the AVG Firewall could be a problem but I'm not sure. I used Windows 7 and Internet Explorer 9. Farine (talk) 16:52, 3 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Though not speaking for Wikipedia, I offer the following observations —


 * I too get frequent time-outs when previewing or saving edits. My connection is pretty good, so I suspect that Wikipedia servers are sometimes just overloaded.


 * If it takes more than a couple of minutes for you to compose your message, consider using a text editor (notepad) on your PC to write your message before cutting and pasting it into the Wikipedia edit window. That way the edit window isn't open for too long, and less likely to cause a timeout.


 * If your connection is slow/remote (Wikipedia is served from Florida, USA), network latency may be an issue.


 * While Internet Explorer is a standard browser, try Google Chrome or Firefox as an alternative. They're both free.  Whatever else can be said about IE, it has always (in all versions) suffered from Microsoft's insistence not to fully support W3C standards for displaying web pages, relying instead on Microsoft's own implementation or proprietary alternatives.


 * If you can see the edit page, and other Wikipedia pages, at all, it's unlikely that a firewall is blocking you, but that depends entirely on your firewall configuration.


 * Hopefully one or more of these suggestions might help. Regards, <font color="#2966B8">Peter S Strempel  &#124; <font color="#2966B8">Talk  00:22, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually the problem is within Explorer 9. I downloaded Firefox and I don't have any problems anymore. I do continue to use Explorer outside of Wikipedia. Thanks for your help anyway. Farine (talk) 05:17, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Google description of Wikipedia
Hi, where is it possible to change the description of Wikipedia (Main Page in Slovene) offered by Google in the first line under the link? --Eleassar my talk 15:03, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It's chosen by Google and depends on the circumstances. Sometimes they copy it from the Open Directory Project. Which search do you make and what does the resulting description say for you? PrimeHunter (talk) 15:49, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Using the search term "wikipedia" in the main Google query box returns http://www.wikipedia.org/ as the top hit, described as "Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceyockey (talk • contribs) 02:21, 27 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The source of http://www.wikipedia.org/ says . http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glavna_stran (Main Page in Slovene) has no such tag. Editors cannot set the meta description tag of Wikipedia pages. mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription is not installed. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:35, 27 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Searching for "wikipedia" gives me the link to Slovene Wikipedia as the first choice and describes it as "Wikipedia® is a trademark of the non-profit organization Wikimedia Foundation Inc. Privacy Policy..." Instead, I think it should be emphasised that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that anyone can edit. --Eleassar my talk 09:00, 27 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Google must give the Slovene Wikipedia as first hit because you have a Slovene IP address or they have registered some connection to Slovenia for you. Do you really get the text as quoted in English? The text has zero Google hits. The English Main Page says "Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., a non-profit organization." If I search in Google then I get "Wikipedia® je tržna znamka neprofitne organizacije Wikimedia Foundation Inc. Politika zasebnosti ..." This is simply quoting from the first and only occurrence of "Wikipedia" on the Slovene Main Page (Wikipedia is written Wikipediji in Slovene). Quoting the context of the search term is normal behaviour for Google and other search engines. I don't think we should worry about Google search blurbs except when they still show serious vandalism. In such cases Google can be asked to reindex the page quickly. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:00, 27 August 2011 (UTC)


 * You're right about the Slovene IP address. The text I've provided is the English translation of the Slovene text that you have written. I think a more informative excerpt would be better. --Eleassar my talk 12:05, 28 August 2011 (UTC)


 * We don't control Google. Their excerpt will often depend on the search term. It makes sense that they quote the context of the search term. As mentioned, some Google descriptions are copied from the Open Directory Project. You could attempt to submit the Slovene Wikipedia at their Slovene directory http://www.dmoz.org/World/Slovensko/. If a submission is accepted then Google may or may not use the submitted description for some searches at a later time. I wouldn't worry about a Google excerpt unless it's directly harmful. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:31, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This, then, is a request for Meta, or Bugzilla. Rich Farmbrough, 17:07, 4 September 2011 (UTC).

Consequence on the servers of a change in the noinclude section of a template
Hi everybody. I have a very technical question for you.

Suppose I have a template used in one million pages (on French Wiktionary it's not theoritical, there is at least one template which is on every single page in main namespace). Hoping you'll help me to understand all that, regards. --GaAs (d) 19:17, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) If I add a block <tt>&lt;noinclude>foo&lt;/noinclude></tt> without modifing anything else, will the cache servers understand that nothing has changed, or will they put one million pages into the job queue?
 * 2) If I change anything between already existing <tt>&lt;noinclude>...&lt;/noinclude></tt> tags, same question.
 * I think they'll understand in both cases that the job queue doesn't need to be updated, and I'm more confident for the second question, but I'm not quite sure. If that's not so, it's a bug in MediaWiki. Ucucha (talk) 23:20, 1 September 2011 (UTC)


 * How sure are you? I'm very sure that as of at least a couple years ago either operation would invalidate all the pages that the template was transcluded on.  As to the underlying question, if this is something you only need to do rarely, then don't worry about it.  Invalidating a million pages isn't going to destroy the servers, and actually isn't that big a deal.  (Though, there is a good chance you could get a timeout error when you save the update to a very widely transcluded template.  Such errors occur when the updating process is temporarily overwhelmed but have no real long-term consequences.)  Dragons flight (talk) 00:07, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Why does it matter? <b style="color:forestgreen">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange">melon</b> 10:47, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Help needed with regular expressions
I use NoScript, and some toolserv scripts, like this one and a bunch of others trigger the XSS protection. The help page is written in what to me is high CS geek. The console contains code like ^https?://([a-z]+)\.google\.(?:[a-z]{1,3}\.)?[a-z]+/(?:search|custom|\1)\?

^https?://([a-z]*)\.?search\.yahoo\.com/search(?:\?|/\1\b)

^https?://[a-z]+\.wikipedia\.org/wiki/[^"<>\?%]+$

^https?://translate\.google\.com/translate_t[^"'<>\?%]+$

^https://secure\.wikimedia\.org/wikipedia/[a-z]+/wiki/[^"<>\?%]+$ I don't really understand it :( I tried adding the following to the NS XSS console ^https:?//toolserver\.org/[^"<>\?%]+$ but it doesn't seem to do the trick :( Can somebody suggest what I need to add to it to let all toolserv scripts work without the annoying reload? Thanks! --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk to me 04:53, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks like the first question mark in your regex is in the wrong place; it should be after the s and not after the colon. Ucucha (talk) 05:02, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Updated, but the console is still not treating toolserv as a whitelisted site. Why the %#% did they cram all those parameters in? How can I tell it to allow everything from toolserv.org? Sigh. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk to me 03:05, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * ~dispenser/view/Help — Hope that helps. — Dispenser 11:46, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, it seems to have fixed the issue! --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk to me 17:09, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Watchlist key generator suggestion
I've discovered that watchlist keys can include non-hex characters, and can be a lot longer than the default length. Is there a reason that the key generator uses only hex characters and relatively short keys? If there's no good reason, I suggest that the key generator be adapted to take advantage of this ability for stronger security. <b style="color:#01796F;">Pine</b>talk 08:56, 4 September 2011 (UTC) ― A. di M.​ <i lang="ga" xml:lang="ga">plé​dréachtaí</i> 19:22, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * IIRC, the preload is a random number run through an MD5 hash a few times, hence the size and syntax. <b style="color:forestgreen">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange">melon</b> 10:52, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * How random is the random number? If it comes from a PRNG seeded with the time the page was generated... OK, I'll shut up now (not that I would consider it such a tragedy if someone stole my watchlist token).
 * For some users, watchlist privacy is a big deal. I'm not one of them but given the choice to make watchlist security better, I think that it should be done. How would I submit this to developers as a suggestion? <b style="color:#01796F;">Pine</b>talk 21:06, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * If your watchlist privacy is a big deal for you, you should choose your own watchlist token, not one generated for you. But if you want to suggest something to the developers, you can do so on Bugzilla. <tt>User&lt;Svick&gt;.Talk;</tt> 21:18, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Aligning Route Diagram Templates horizontally
Per discussion I have created a series of historical route diagram templates for the MBTA Orange Line. You can view them here. The original plan was to align all 5 horizontally to make the changes easier to follow. However, I am unable to find a way to do so. Simply listing them stacks them vertically; putting them in a table breaks the RDT formatting. I don't have the html/css skills to craft my own solution. Help! Pi.1415926535 (talk) 13:58, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Add unwatch link to each link on watch page
This would be handy. Essentially turn (diff | hist) into (diff | hist | unwatch) by each item on your watchlist, so when something pops up there and it occurs to you that you don't really care about it any more you can banish it in one click... Egg Centric 15:44, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * This one or this one do something similar, and there are some links there to similar things. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 15:50, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Gadget troubles
I've been using the gadget that adds to dropdown boxes with default edit summaries, but the minor summaries add the text "Common edit summaries - click to use" instead of the edit summary picked. Is it possible for someone to fix this? --Nathan2055talk-review 16:21, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

My talk page got corrupted
I have no idea how, but during the night, User talk:Piotrus turned into half-gibberish. What's weird is that it seems to affect all past revisions I can see, even through I know they are good, so I cannot simply revert. I tried editing past versions, they show gibberish. I tried different browsers, same problem. What gives? Is it some widespread problem, or is it a localized failure? --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk to me 16:50, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the behaviour of something in User:Piotrus/Talkheader has changed. To find out what, you might need to copy it over and preview without one or more elements. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 16:53, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I think this is more widespread, at least for me. I tried editing an article (Virtuti Militari), and the edit window shows the garbled text (this time I was able to self-revert). However, editing as an anon seems to have fixed the problem. This suggests a problem with my account, but not the page. I guess I'll go off to investigate my monobook, scripts and such. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk to me 16:59, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, the problem must be on your end. Did you install any new scripts, browser plugins, etc. recently? Does the problem appear on all pages you edit while logged in? Ucucha (talk) 17:09, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

And I've tracked the problem to User:Cacycle/wikEd. Disabling it stopped pages from getting corrupted. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk to me 17:08, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Archive 92
Does anyone know how to accomplish this? Thanks!--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 16:51, 4 September 2011 (UTC)


 * You could use an ifexist: statement such that when the page does not exist, a preload link (coloured red) is included instead of the link to the non-existent page.
 * Then they can click the red month (use the correct web colour, not just "red" ;>), and once the page is created, it will instead display the link. – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 16:56, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Building on what xeno said, you can do something like this:, where Template:NRHP Article Archive/preload contains the preloaded text. Ucucha (talk) 17:05, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't forget what to do when page exists (i.e. show the bluelink) in between the || there =) – xeno <sup style="color:black;">talk 17:08, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Doing nothing is a legitimate option. :) Ucucha (talk) 17:10, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help, guys (Sorry for the late response.. I forgot to watch this page.) I tried the #fullurl suggestion(s) above, but the span with font-color is overridden by the CSS for external links, and the link turns blue with the arrow sign: (never mind that I haven't created the subpage.. that won't change the link). I tried several methods to override that CSS... class="plainlinks" gets rid of the arrow, but I couldn't figure out how to color the link red. Any ideas?--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 02:03, 5 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Try this:
 * and don't forget to create the subpage Template:NRHP Article Archive/preload. Goodvac (talk) 02:26, 5 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah, I didn't think about using a font/span tag inside the link.. brilliant! I was actually doing some searching around after you suggested this and found Template:Preload. I've now modified it to be able to handle a link color, and I've made use of it in NRHP Article Archive. Now on to the picture archive! Thanks for all the help!--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 03:17, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't the edit conflict blocker work with the undo feature?
Look at this pair of edits:. I had seen the diff of the edit by Loupatriz67, clicked on the “undo” link, found a compromise wording, typed an edit summary, and saved the page, and it all went smoothly; I didn't notice the intervening edit by Headbomb until much later. How comes I wasn't warned about the edit conflict? ― A. di M.​ <i lang="ga" xml:lang="ga">plé​dréachtaí</i> 19:15, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Data running together when in edit mode
I don't now if I am the only one having this problem but ever since I logged in this morning when I try and edit an article the text is all run together. Normally it would show bullets like this: But today its like this: *Example 1*Example 2*Example 3. Its really infuriating. --Kumioko (talk) 23:07, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Example 1
 * Example 2
 * Example 3
 * This is a bug in WP:WIKED that has already been fixed. Bypassing your cache should remove the problem. Ucucha (talk) 23:12, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I've already tried that but it didn't work. Any other ideas? --Kumioko (talk) 00:14, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I suppose something else could have produced the exact same bug at the same time, but that would be quite unlikely. Perhaps you need some more aggressive cache-emptying, or you're using some wrong version of wikEd. Ucucha (talk) 00:26, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I figured it out. Its working now. I uninstalled Firefox and reinstalled it and now its working. Thanks for the help. --Kumioko (talk) 01:07, 5 September 2011 (UTC)