Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive 2013 5

Odd issue with white space
I tried to clean up white space on this rev of Belmont Report, in section "The Belmont Report Today". It highlit the white space in green and said I couldn't edit it. I was able to remove the white space by placing the cursor on the line above and using the delete key instead, though I then got a "review" screen showing I had duplicated a paragraph! I can try to reproduce the exact sequence if it's of interest. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:33, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

s which VisualEditor can't currently handle (and so it stops you from breaking it). You should, however, have been able to select over it and replace it by pressing delete/backspace or typing. Sorry for the confusion. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 21:18, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The reason you got the selection highlighted in green is that the whitespace is converted into a number of

Edit summaries have no 'memory'
With a normal edit summary (in Firefox on a Mac), I can type it once, and it's stored in the browser, so if I want to use the same edit summary a hundred times (and I do), I don't have to re-type the whole thing. I just start typing  and it pops up the options, the first of which for me is going to be. With this edit summary system, it doesn't seem to know about the previously used ones, so I either have to re-type the whole thing, which is tedious, or give a less informative edit summary, which I think most editors will find very tempting. Can this be fixed? WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:56, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I second this. While a textarea is nice, it encourages people to write essays for their summaries, and it also lacks browser autocomplete support. — This, that and the other (talk) 09:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * This is a big issue for me too. I do mostly small repetitive edits and I really miss the ability to double click on the edit summary box and select from among the edit summaries I have used in the past. Thank you. SchreiberBike (talk) 05:04, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd noticed this too; have filed as an enhancement. Note that quite soon this box will be a mini-VisualEditor surface, however, which changes things. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 21:33, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Tried to add a tag
I tried to add a tag to an article. It added it, but it also added  tags around the whole paragraph.

I tried to report this in the "report error" dialog, but failed to submit my report as I couldn't find a "submit" button or the equivalent. Maproom (talk) 07:33, 14 April 2013 (UTC)


 * You don't add wikitext to articles via the VisualEditor ever; when you type something in that would otherwise be wikitext, it gets "escaped" for you by the back-end to stop accidental breakage. In this particular case, templates are coming soon but not yet supported - sorry for that. The "report error" dialog is now fixed. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 21:20, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Cannot scroll to the text at the left side.
The text on the left side of the article hides behind the language links. I cannot scroll to this text at the left side. Tirkon (talk) 11:58, 14 April 2013 (UTC)


 * That's very odd! What browser and skin were you using? Does it happen on all pages, or just some of them (and if so, which ones)? Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 21:39, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Redirects
Please make it work on redirect pages (where the sole content is #redirect article) -- Mahanga (Talk) 23:00, 5 March 2013 (UTC)


 * This is one of the things we want to get to soon. Thanks for the feedback! Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 17:44, 27 April 2013 (UTC)


 * As an update, the code to avoid editing a redirect and ending up with the text of the target page is mostly done; the steps to have something useful to edit through VisualEditor for redirect pages may take a little longer, sorry. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 23:19, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Noticeable but simple bug
On any page with VE enabled, click "edit source". The "edit source" tab is not displayed as "activated" on the action=edit page - you can see the activated tab "flash" away as VE JavaScript is loaded. — This, that and the other (talk) 10:11, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * As the template says, this has been fixed and will be deployed as part of the new version of the site's software on 20 May. Sorry for the bug! Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 22:32, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit tab loses accesskey
After the last update, my accesskey accessor for edit mode is no longer connected to either of the edit tabs it seems. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 10:14, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I encountered the same problem. It still works on talk pages, though.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:24, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * As the template says, this has been fixed and will be deployed as part of the new version of the site's software on 20 May. Sorry for our mistake! Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 22:32, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Oldid gets lost
When you are on the 'edit source' page of an oldid page, then click 'edit' (for the VE), the VE opens the latest version, instead of the oldid. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 10:16, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry about this bug; will make sure it gets fixed soon. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 22:33, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Unwanted spans
This resulted in several re-used refs getting screwed up in parts of the article that I didn't touch. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:21, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * This is proving to be a serious problem for me. I've had to discard several attempts to make minor changes (like capitalization) because of the VE changing  into this busted   .  WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:11, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Same, I can't use it without it adding   after refs, or editing other parts of the page, even chemboxes! No-one can even edit them at the moment with VE; is this some built-in article maintenance? You can't possibly attribute many of these edits to those trying to edit the page, if VE goes ahead and edits (read breaks) the rest of the article. Tomásdearg92 (talk) 02:30, 25 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry about this nasty bug. As the template says, this has been fixed and was deployed here as part of the site's software on 6 May. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 22:37, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Undefined article link problem
Also, I tried to link to the article Stroke, and the list showed the article as an option, but when I clicked on it, it then said 'undefined' and when I tried to click elsewhere to get away from that dialog box, it deleted the entire paragraph (which naturally I didn't save, so there's no diff, but I did review it and saw that it really was trying to delete it). WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:21, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Apologies for letting this bug through. As the template says, this has been fixed and was deployed here as part of the site's software on 6 May. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 22:39, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

autocomplete
i tried to create a link using autocomplete, but when i pressed the actual link, the value in the texbox changed to "undefined". קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 22:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you add with which browser + version this occurred ? I gather you:
 * Selected text
 * Clicked the insert link button
 * Starting typing an internal link
 * Selected a internal link from the list
 * The value you saw in the textfield became 'undefined'
 * Is that a correct summary ? I think I was able to reproduce this issues in Safari 6. I also note that after that, if I try to click outside of the dialog, the dialog will become white, but will not close. On the console I see: "TypeError: 'undefined' is not an object (evaluating 'dataElement.attributes.title')" —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 13:30, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * yes, i think it's good summary. i was not very precise, and disabled visEd immediately after i encountered the issue. i believe i tried it with Chrome (either 26 or 27 beta - i have both on on different machines, and can't recall which i used when this happened). peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 19:58, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I've got this problem in Firefox 20.0 on a Mac. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:06, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Hey, sorry for not seeing this until now; the bug was found and the fix deployed here on 6 May. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 22:40, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

== isn't rendered as expected Tobias (Talk) 22:25, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * This has been fixed and was deployed here in late April. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 22:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Strange markup in reference section
When doing a small copy-edit, I looked at the review window and it had added  after  itself; some templates like ; some categories. See for an example which has all three. As noted above, it is easy for the TD on the redir to get out of synch with the main template; but besides that, some templates have several redirects - see for example [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Citation_needed&hidetrans=1&hidelinks=1 those for Template:Citation needed]. Setting up all of those is a big task, and keeping them in synch would be a nightmare. If VE is the problem, VE should be fixed. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:54, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
 * But as it is right now, TD on all redirects are out of sync with the main templates: It doesn't show up at all. -- Atethnekos (Discussion, Contributions) 18:05, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
 * This needs to be solved in a "real" way, but as an interim measure, I think that it might be worth copying the TemplateData into the redirects for a small number of the most commonly used ones, including  and  .  That will need to be undone someday (so that the today's TemplateData doesn't permanently override the master copy, once a real solution is in place), so it would be wise to keep a list.  Perhaps making a list at the end of the TemplateData page would be the best choice.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:32, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Template documentation header problem
Hi.

I am not sure if it is a VisualEditor bug but then, I don't have any other answer for the question "what has caused this issue?" Here we go.


 * First screenshot: Shows Firefox v24.0 loading Template:Documentation/start box, no user has has logged on, the template renders exactly as its code ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Documentation/start_box&oldid=560807734 revision 560807734]) logically leads us to believe it would. Now, as you open the next screenshot, pay attention to what you see in front of "Template documentation": You see "[View] [edit] [history] [purge]". It is transcluded in every template that uses documentation and [view] brings up view mode. So far so good.
 * Second screenshot: Same web browser, I am logged on. The links now read: [Edit source] [edit] [history] [purge]". Problem? Well, this template is transcluded in every template that uses documentation and clicking [edit source] does not bring up source editing screen; it is still view mode, with the link by mistake saying "edit source".

I tried bypassing my browser cache but that did not do anything good.

Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 10:25, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi there, VE can't be used in the Template namespace, so it can't cause issues there - although you might get errors with templates while you are editing a page with it. Maybe Village_pump_(technical) can help you? Thanks, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 10:35, 4 October 2013 (UTC) PS: since you get that error once you are logged in, there might be something "wrong" among your Preferences - like a gadget or some kind of code misbehaving in your .js pages.
 * Hello, Elitre. I just tried disabling VE in Preferences -> Editing and the problem went away. So, I am afraid with all due respect, it does seem to have something to do with VE. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 10:41, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * P.S. I tried disabling all gadgets before reporting but I will try disabling .js page too. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 10:43, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * P.P.S. All gadgets, commons.js and commons.css are out of action. Nothing. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 10:52, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll test this properly ASAP, I still don't think VE gets to decide how links are called in other namespaces - something might have been renamed, but I guess this is not done by VE developers? Also, some people wrote code changing the name of the labels after VE arrived, not sure if you're using that code. We'll see :) Thanks, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 10:46, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi. You might want to look at Special:PrefixIndex/User:Codename_Lisa/ and tell me if you want anything else disabled. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 10:54, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi again, I have now moved it here because, although VE seems related, the issue might still be due to some overlapping on-wiki settings that do not require an intervention from VE developers. If this is the case instead, I'll be happy to file a bug ASAP for you. Thanks :) --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 11:43, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

This does sound like a carry over from how the section edit tabs are renamed for VE. Some javascript somewhere is modifying the display of various classes. Looking at the html This is the same as in the section edit links which also use. The upshot of this is that the css/js which changes the labels also affects the links in the documentation page. It could be fixed by adding a  to the appropriate code, if I could find it.

I would say more could be done to have a simple class for VE edit links, the css you need to find just these is much harder than it needs to be.--User:Salix alba (talk): 12:35, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi User:Salix alba, can I copy your comments at the Tech VP? If there is more action required on my side please let me know :) Thanks, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 13:06, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yep no problem. --User:Salix alba (talk): 16:38, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Bugs are now randomized, apparently
Once one bug disappears (like the page settings not working, or the snowmen), another strange one seems to appear instead. Something has become very unstable apparently. \

The new one (for me at least, perhaps it already existed): when I edit a page in Beta (my sandbox, or a main space page), I get next to the page title two pale blue links, "edit source / edit beta", which bring me to the section editing for the lead. I don't get these pale links for other sections, only next to the title. I can't remember these being there, and I can't see the use for them (and if they have a use, they would probably be wanted for other sections as well). Fram (talk) 12:01, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Fram, will add this to my tests. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 12:39, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * No luck here either. Can you please take a screenshot, so that I can add it when I file a bug? I'll find your specs somewhere in this page. Thank you, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 13:16, 4 October 2013 (UTC) PS: as you can imagine, Edit links where they don't belong and when you are already editing a page do not make much sense :)

File:VE error Fram 1.jpg! Fram (talk) 13:35, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. FF v.24, I assume, and you don't have any gadget that might be conflicting? --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 13:47, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * FF24 indeed, and I don't think I have any conflicting gadgets, certainly no personalized js or anything only standard gadgets like Twinkle or Hotcat, which I haven't activated or deactivated recently. Fram (talk) 13:50, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Tnx, at 54971 now, unconfirmed status since I couldn't reproduce but maybe others can. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 13:58, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note that I only get this when the page has at least one section header. Pages without section headers don't have this behaviour. Fram (talk) 14:12, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I see this at User:Thryduulf/sandbox3 (which has multiple section headers), and at this version of sandbox4 with 1 section header. I don't see it at the previous revision which had no section headers. Thryduulf (talk) 17:58, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * what skin are you using? I see it when using Monobook but not when I tested it in Vector. Thryduulf (talk) 18:04, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I have the standard one (Vector? The one that was introduced as the default a few years ago). Fram (talk) 07:01, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's Vector. Cheers. Thryduulf (talk) 09:33, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Fram, what's your setting at Special:Preferences for "Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page"? Does the problem go away if you disable that gadget?  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:35, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
 * That gadget was "on". And indeed, with that gadget "off", the edit links disappear in VE mode, and when I turn it back one, they reappear. Nice catch! Fram (talk) 07:34, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Double check
The article Double check has "Be6++" in the caption of the first chess table, when it should be "Be6+" (the lede says "+", not "++", is "almost always" used.)

I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how to remove that extra plus sign using VE. I can't place my cursor in the caption. Double-clicking in the caption or the chess board does nothing. Clicking the little puzzle piece gives me a dialog with a bunch of numbered parameters but no clue how to edit the caption. Can someone walk me through the steps to do what I'm trying to do?

Also, when I click "edit this page - beta", VE appears to take all the chess pieces off the boards and move them below the chess boards. 28bytes (talk) 20:17, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The caption appears to be set by parameter 61. To make this intuitive, someone needs to write TemplateData for the template. If you aren't comfortable doing this yourself, then a request on the template talk or at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chess is probably your best bet (I don't grok chess and don't understand the notation so it's probably best if I don't do it!).
 * Your second point is probably related to the known issues about templates that involve aligning multiple images - railway route diagrams and sports team shirts are also affected by this. I can't immediately find the relevant bug(s) though, sorry. Thryduulf (talk) 23:48, 4 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, that is the least of your worries. Chess templates can not be edited in VE, and the rendering of articles containing the chess templates is broken in VE.  Even if you do find parameter 61, altering it will cause the VE or Parsoid to create a dirty diff.  See 51932.  Perhaps the TemplateData should say that this template is not supported yet.  Or is there some way to disabled VE on this template?
 * The chess templates were designed to be readable and editable in source mode. The existing design doesn't translate well into VisualEditor.  It might be more useful to have the chess boards rendered by an extension that understands a chess notation.(i.e. 23401)  e.g. we now have extensions for maths, chemistry and music notations .. why not chess too?  Latex has the ability to render chess boards. Also there is an extension that adds PGN support. See 23401 John Vandenberg (chat) 23:52, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Cite journal template is missing a Title field
Sue Gardner (talk) 17:23, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Oh blah, I just realized I was wrong. I originally filed this reporting that the Cite Journal template was missing an Article Title field, but I realize now it's there just labeled Source Title. I will keep this bug report here though, because the messiness of the template deserves a look anyway. It's probably worth renaming Source Title to Article Title too -- the latter feels more intuitive. Feel free to close/resolve this if you want :-) Sue Gardner (talk) 17:27, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Not really a Visual Editor issue, though: Template talk:Cite journal would be a more appropriate place for the discussion. The only Visual Editor deficiency that feeds into this is the lack of cut-and-paste, because most people using the normal wikitext editor would simply copy an existing instance of the template and edit it, not try to start from scratch.&mdash;Kww(talk) 17:52, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I followed Kww's suggestion, so everybody interested in this issue please comment about it here. Thanks! --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 11:49, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I've changed the TemplateData for cite journal so that there is simply a "title" parameter. It looks like this was copied from another cite template with a different description. The rest of the bug report is a bit to vague to really be actionable, the duplicate parameters are needed so that all the transclusions work.--User:Salix alba (talk): 00:44, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

VE issues with pages starting with a full stop (period)
I've just reported and  which both relate to VE problems on pages starting with a full stop (.), e.g. .mp, talk:.uk.


 * is that articles starting with . do not load in VE. The URL changes but the page remains in view mode. This only affects article-space pages, e.g. .mp. User:Thryduulf/.100 and user:.anaconda are not affected.
 * is that talk pages starting with . have a VE edit button when they shouldn't. This only affects article talk pages, e.g. talk:.mp, not e.g. user talk:Thryduulf/.100.

I am noting this here as I have only been able to test in Firefox 24 on linux. It would be useful if people with access to other systems/browsers could verify whether they are affected too. Cheers, Thryduulf (talk) 01:42, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I get the same for Chrome on a Mac. In the error console I get
 * Exception thrown by ext.visualEditor.viewPageTarget.init: mw.Title: Could not parse title ".mp"
 * Looks like both bugs are dups of which will has been fixed. It should go live by Thursday 17 October.--User:Salix alba (talk): 04:59, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, unfortunately we found this bug in MediaWiki and had to undertake a major re-write of a core part of MediaWiki's Javascript to make it actually do what people expect (i.e., work like MediaWiki's  ). This will incidentally fix bugs in UploadWizard, Page Curation, Notifications and, yes, VisualEditor. Sorry for the disruption. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 15:52, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Succession boxes
I am very impressed by how well succession boxes work with VE. While I'd appreciate a more WYSIWYG way of editing them, the current setup works quite nicely, with the various templates placed neatly into one dialog.

Thank you!

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ypnypn (talk • contribs) 15:58, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Making a transclusion editor that can handle even the most complex sets of templates and other transclusions (like  was a big challenge, and we don't think it's anything close to perfect yet, but I'm glad you found it at least workable. A more WYSIWYG-like way of editing table-like templates (most especially, infoboxes) is something we'd like to get around to doing at some point in the future, yes. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 16:10, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Pawn inserting text between convert and ref
I don't have time atm to see whether this is a duplicate or not, but at try inserting anything between the close parenthesis at the end of the conversion template and the reference and you get exactly one pawn.

Inserting anything before the reference in the paragraph above gets you the reverse typing bug. Thryduulf (talk) 12:02, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Inadvertently (and invisibly) going bold
The first difference in this diff explains the title. When you go to the old version of the article, and position your cursor after the comma, press backspace, and then add something else instead (a hyphen, dash, whatever), you are adding that part inside the "bold" title. In this case, the difference between bold or not bold is invisible (to me), but I don't think this behaviour is always wanted (and wouldn't happen in wikitext editing). Fram (talk) 12:08, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Unnecessary changes

 * I don't understand why "starting at 1 would make it more likely for some of the numbers to match up, especially for new VE-created articles". Now you start at 0, and the second auto-numbered ref is 1. Does this mean that as soon as you get two or more numbered refs, the chance of an accidental match increase? If so, please use a different scheme, e.g. A1 to Z9, or whatever decreases that chance. If not, then please explain what the difference between 0 and 1 actually could cause (preferably with an example), as I don't understand this objection. Fram (talk) 07:50, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think this is about accidental matches. Especially from the perspective of the less experienced editor, it might be desirable for to match with .  I've asked James F why they're using such an odd naming scheme, and the answer is that it's this system is multilingual ("A" doesn't exist in many languages/many users' keyboards) and also that they want something that is unlikely to have been added manually by a user.  Your suggestion of "A1", for example, might be a logical choice for a user working on A1 paper or A1 steak sauce.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:43, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

For the record, similar unnecessary changes are still being made today,. Fram (talk) 15:58, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Typical examples of remaining VE problems / bugs
These are all known, I believe, but it doesn't hurt to bring them in the spotlight again (and perhaps some of them were already supposed to be fixed or thought to be very rare).


 * Wikilinks get divided, and subdivided, and so on: here, scroll to the bottom of the diff. The already divided link to Motor vehicle theft now becomes three links instead of two. It doesn't seem to have been intentional...
 * Exact formatting is difficult: here we get the typical example that bolding a complete wikilink puts the "bold" wikiformatting inside the piped link, instead of outside an unpiped link; and a comma which shouldn't have been bolded gets bolded as well.
 * A similar thinh happens here, where one letter is not included in a wikilink. This seems to be an accident, not a stylistic quirk done on purpose.

That's three times in about 30 edits. They are minor problems, but when you get them so often, they again become quite annoying. Fram (talk) 13:38, 11 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Going from memory, which may be faulty:


 * 1) Known, bad, and apparently difficult.
 * 2) This isn't "wrong", even if it's not the way that most experienced editors choose to format the page.  The comma will get bolded if the user selects the comma when applying the bold text formatting.
 * 3) The belief here is that the person didn't select the whole word.  So the choice is to let the users make the errors—producing a lot of Examples when users only select the last seven characters instead of all eight—or to prohibit all users from deliberately linking only part of a word when they want to.
 * On that last item, I'm personally tempted to take the other alternative: I can't remember making a link that involved only the last part of a word/really not wanting the whole word to be linked.  It's possible that other people are trying to make links like Trans-Siberian .  But I'd prefer a more significant solution, like being able to see and edit the link and the label separately in the link tool.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:40, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * For all its nuances and learning curve these types of problems never occur with the Wikitext editor! Just like anything, there is going to be a learning curve. Many things are much more difficult in VE than they are in Wikitext. I'm sure eventually the WMF will get the problems sorted out and the software will be worth the effort that's been put into it. These continuing problems emphasize though how extremely important it is to properly test the software before its being released. These are easy examples of things that should have been caught when it was being developed not a year later. Its problems like this that show the decision to disable it as a default editor, incuding and expecially for anons was the right one. 138.162.8.58 (talk) 20:01, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * There are advantages to both systems. For example, if everyone used VisualEditor, then BracketBot wouldn't need to send messages to a couple hundred editors every day about their link-breaking typos.  The link tool in VisualEditor never produces link-breaking  .  List formatting (especially converting existing paragraphs into a properly formatted list with no WP:ACCESS-violating intervening blank spaces) is easier and faster in VisualEditor.  Several people have said that VisualEditor allows them to focus more on their writing and less on the existence of of brackets, templates, and other infrastructure.
 * But there are things that VisualEditor simply can't do yet (adding rows to a table, for example), problems it currently has (I'd say that nobody wants to add links with only a space, like the  shown in #1, except that I actually did that a while ago), and things that it might never be as appropriate for (can you imagine writing a complex template in VisualEditor?).  The eventual goal is for VisualEditor to be good enough that people who want to use it will be able to edit any page they want.  This requires real-world testing on complex and diverse pages, not just the multiple kinds of tests that are done by the staff or other knowledgeable people.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:44, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * True, but because the WMF got the order reversed (starting way to soon with real world testing on all pages, including complex and diverse pages, when it didn't even work properly on simple standard pages), it will now be much harder to get back to the ideal scenario (and acceptance of other new tools like Flow may also get a lot harder). And of course, as long as things in VE stil require knowledge of wikitext (eg in templates), and other common things are simply impossible in VE, it is a bit useless as a replacement for wikitext editing anyway. While the current low figures for VE editing are of course due to the opt-in, the editing figures before the opt-in were low as well and showed no signs of increasing either. Perhaps it had been better to focus on making wikitext editing more robust (eg incorporating the checks that bracketbot does in the "save" function) and more user-friendly (introducing a few improvements VE has into wikitext editing, like the file preview selection or the templatedata?). Well, it isn't too late to start doing these things of course. Fram (talk) 07:22, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

More examples of bug 3. When do people actually "want" to have one letter black instead of blue or red? Ever? Then why is this the default behaviour from VE in these cases? Fram (talk) 16:02, 21 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I can't think offhand of a time when people would want one letter to be unlinked, but if you will look at my previous message, you will see that I specifically linked only part of one word ("WP:ACCESS-violating") and that partial link makes sense there. Do you want VisualEditor to prohibit that?  Or do you think it should only prohibit it if there is just one letter being left unlinked?  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:37, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I want VE to give "me", the editor, the choice, e.g. by allowing wikitext to be entered directly, as requested by the enwiki community and categorically rejected by the WMF devs. Now VE makes the choice for me, and usually makes the wrong choice because very occasionally, like in your example, this behaviour may be desirable. If VE can't give me the choice for whatever reason (none has been given by the devs), then it should default to the most common desired result, which is that the remainder of the word is also included in the bluelink, not that it is excluded by a nowiki. Similar as to when people add double square opening and closing brackets: in 99% of the cases, they want to wikilink, but VE defaults to the 1% exception. Fram (talk) 19:24, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Example: Fram (talk) 11:59, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Another one: . This is really much too common, while the opposite (a "wanted" nowiki in these circumstances in an article) is very rare. And remember thatmany of these don't even get saved, but get abandoned after the "nowiki" warning appears. Fram (talk) 12:03, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * And this is the front instead of back variation (which doesn't even generate a nowiki), where an editor wants to change a capital S into a lowercase s, and the result is that Season Six changes into season six ... I don't have to dig very far to find these, simply open a few recent VE edits and you are bound to encounter this. Now imagine that everyone uses VE instead of wikitext... Fram (talk) 12:08, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

VE disabled for anons
This was probably an intentional change, but I now find that VE is disabled for anons. i.e. if the anon user happens to add ?veaction=edit in the URL, it no longer loads VE.

It would be nice if the VE backend (php) recognised ?veaction=edit, maybe with &debug=true also enabled, and loaded VE irrespective of user preferences. That would allow testing in many browsers without logging in - which is a bugger because logging into a second browser causes the first browser to be logged out.(49890) Are other people experiencing the same issue? I dont want to raise a bug if there is a good reason why veaction=edit in the URL shouldn't force the VE backend to load VE. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:28, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I am not sure this can be done given the current status of VE at en.wp. Please don't hesitate to request this on Bugzilla, especially if you think it's technically doable! There is a very vaguely related thread on Wikimedia-l, but I guess you already noticed it. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 17:57, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It is technically doable, even easy, as the current behaviour is controlled by the JavaScript only. Bug 55900 raised. John Vandenberg (chat) 21:55, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

jdforrester has said on the bug "I feel that this conflicts with the expressed will of the community (to prevent anonymous users from being able to use VisualEditor)." Perhaps we need to review the previous community discussion, and start a new one if this bug conflicts with the prior decision. John Vandenberg (chat) 07:42, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Can someone point me to the discussion about the anon editing being disabled? I think it was on AN, but I wasnt paying much attention when this happened.  The RFC needs to be closed.  I've proposed wording for the closure at Wikipedia talk:VisualEditor/RFC. -- John Vandenberg (chat) 01:22, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I wasn't very involved with that one, John. I'm more infamous for WP:VisualEditor/Default State RFC.&mdash;Kww(talk) 02:43, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that link Kww; I'd forgotten where that one was. From a quick look at that (esp this), it seems the community doesn't mind that anonymous users were able to use VE; we just don't want the UI to be pushing anons to be using it.  Some comments in #2 indicated a preference for preventing anons from using VE, but some people (e.g. User:Wikid77 and user:Sameboat) explicitly wanted 'veaction=edit' to continue working as before. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:20, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a case that wasn't elucidated well in the RFC. My main question is why someone would be wanting to participate in testing experimental software but not willing to register.&mdash;Kww(talk) 04:02, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * What does registering have to do with giving feedback? IPs are allowed to give feedback as much as anyone; indeed, they already have been giving it. Orange Suede Sofa  (talk) 04:08, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * user:kww, VE is one of the few cases where the user prefs override URL parameters. If someone is wanting to test a bug in a variety of browsers (and devices), logging in every time is a real pain in the butt because of feature/regression 49890.  Due to the beta status, it should be as easy to test as possible. John Vandenberg (chat) 05:41, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not some kind of ultimate authority that you need to convince. The RFC was pretty clear that it shouldn't be made available to IPs by default. It didn't preclude making it available to IPs by some mechanism. I'm queasy about saying that simply adding the URL parameter constitutes making it unavailable by default, but there's probably an answer out there.&mdash;Kww(talk) 05:48, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Hatnote cleanup problem
There does not seem to be a way to delete the first of two hatnotes [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maxi_single&diff=577225537&oldid=568995072 without leaving extra space] at the top of the article. 28bytes (talk) 03:20, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I couldn't figure out how to do it, either. What's your browser/OS/skin?  I tried it in Safari on a Mac.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:40, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Firefox 24.0/Windows 7/Monobook. 28bytes (talk) 16:48, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Likewise, on Firefox/Mac. John Vandenberg (chat) 07:46, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the replies. My quick search (on "hatnote") at Bugzilla showed nothing, so this needs to have a bug filed.  I don't have time to do it right now, but either I or someone else will do it soon, and we'll post the bug number back here.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:49, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Now at 56234. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 10:00, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Not a bug report
This is an edit where VE did the job superlatively well and was far easier to use than doing the same thing in wikitext would have been. The references all cut'n'pasted properly too (and I liked the way they renumbered instantly). Thank you! - David Gerard (talk) 23:06, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * You mean things like adding the same ref twice to the same sentence?
 * New features include:
 * You do the same at another junction as well... And note that the "instant renumbering" you applaud is actually rather buggy as well, since the numbers in VE mode are not the same as the numbers in view mode (i.e. in VE edit mode, the first ref in the text has number 1, but it has number 8 in the ref box at the bottom, which is the number it has in the view mode as well). This is due to a problem with refs in the infobox which has been reported quite a while ago but hasn't been fixed yet.
 * By the way, I love what VE does with the "supported file formats" table (the read and write columns). Apparently it isn't, well, supported in VE :-) Fram (talk) 07:13, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Draf template images are way too big (ptwiki)
Some draft templates (a template for when the article is still a draf) in ptwiki are ridiculous big: 1, 2. Though the template has a size parameter most of time, it seems that the parameter is not passed when in VE.

I fixed the issue by adding a fixed width div in the image placeholder but some users got unhappy with the change, also because they seems a bit pessimistic about the VE. I also think that these images should be as smaller as icons not 20mb heavy downsized to 20x20px but this is another issue...

Issue was related here but got no responses.

Thanks for any feedback on this.

Dianakc (talk) 18:36, 18 October 2013 (UTC)


 * This is due to a bug in the wikitext which Parsoid doesn't handle in the same way as MediaWiki right now. pt:Predefinição:Esboço-mitologia uses pt:Predefinição:esboço%20personalizado, setting the " " parameter as "50px" which is passed into pt:Predefinição:asbox as the " " parameter. This is meant to just be a number (e.g. "50"), as the template adds "px" anyway, which means it becomes "50pxpx" which currently causes Parsoid to choke and needs to work around - see bug 51628. In the short term, if you fix the template it will go away after Parsoid has a chance to re-parse the page - I've just done this for that template. Sorry for the bug. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 19:50, 18 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks I was not able to figure out. Dianakc (talk) 19:59, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Cursor "disappears"
Hello. Just a little thing that's kind of annoying. I don't know exactly how to describe it but I'll try. Since the new launch on Thursday, the cursor disappears when I try to add a new parameter to the templates. What I mean...before, when I was adding a template, after clicking for a new parameter, the cursor was automatically in the box where I write the title of the parameter. Now I have to click on the box first. Also before, when the new parameter was added, the cursor was automatically in the box where I write the content of the parameter. Now I also have to click on the box first. It might be a small thing but it's kind of annoying to move the mouse back and forth, especially when you have 5-6 parameters to add to a template (e.g. for a reference) and it takes more time. P.S. I like that the "add summary" box is now in the middle of the screen :) TeamGale 16:55, 19 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Extra clicking sounds annoying. I'll file a bug report for you.  I've confirmed the need to click in the "Add parameter" field (where it says "Parameter name" and also lets you search for any parameters that are known via TemplateData) to start typing.  Are you still on Firefox 24, Windows 8 and Vector skin?  I checked in Safari on a Mac, so this is almost certainly universal.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:18, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much. I was thinking I would get used of it but nop, still annoying after two days and time consuming! :/ Yep...still there! :)) FF24, W8 and Vector TeamGale 22:25, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Taking your fingers off the keyboard is always annoying, and for some users, minimizing mouse/trackpad use is an WP:ACCESS issue. At the moment, the only alternatives are hitting the tab key seven times, or shift-tab three times, and these are just not practical alternatives.  I'm really grateful that you reported this.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:32, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure not practical at all. Just read the report, thank you so much and you are welcome. Just wanted to add that the same happens after you add the parameter with the context box. Again you have to click with the mouse to the box where you write the context something that before didn't happen. Maybe this can be filed as the same bug? TeamGale 22:39, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

"Add summary" apparent glitch
I made a one-word change to Northeim that called for a some-what lengthy explanation. After about two and a half lines, the vertical bar (cursor) kept blinking, but I could not add text. This means that my explanation was cut off in mid-sentence. (The material I typed was saved when I gave up and clicked to save.)Kdammers (talk) 04:33, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Kdammers, the edit summary window is limited to 255 characters. You can see how many chars. are remaining on the right-hand side bottom of the summary window.  For explanations that are too complicated to explain in 255 chars., maybe a talk page post is more useful? PEarley (WMF) (talk) 20:40, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * To be slightly more exact, edit summaries can't exceed 255 characters, whether one is using VE or the older wikitext editor. And yes, if more explanation than that is needed, "See talk page" as an edit summary, plus a posting on the article's talk page, is the way to go. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 00:27, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Okeh, I see it now: barely visible light gray on light gray, with no explanation. (I don't have contrast problems when I edit in source code.)Kdammers (talk) 00:50, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The number is not really about characters, but about bytes. I corrected this in the User Guide as well, please feel free to check if that was done correctly! --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 10:44, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Talk page seems inflexible.
In VE I can't see any way to use italics. I don't see any icons, unlike in "edit source." (Control-i brings up a new pane when I try that,using Firefox.)Kdammers (talk) 05:13, 20 October 2013 (UTC) --That is, on the talk page. Kdammers (talk) 08:31, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The Italics button is the stylized "I" next to the bold "B" on the VE toolbar. Should be the fifth button from the left. I'll look into the keyboard shortcut issue - we have been seeing a few Firefox bugs of late.  I'm confused by the "talk page" part of this report, though - VE is not currently enabled for talk page editing. Regards, PEarley (WMF) (talk) 20:45, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the response. The VE/talk page is a mistake on my part.  I edited the talk page after looking at the article in VE and falsely assumed that I was still using VE. Kdammers (talk) 05:56, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem, Kdammers. We appreciate your testing and reporting. PEarley (WMF) (talk) 17:05, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Emptying a ref
Contrary to what had been claimed ("you can't make syntactically incorrect statements in VE"), you can apparently do this, e.g. emptying a named ref so that it gives a " Cite error: The named reference prisa was invoked but never defined " error. See here for an example. No idea how the editor did it, I have not tried to reproduce it. Fram (talk) 08:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey Fram. I've tried to reproduce it, without success.  I've asked the editor if they can shed any light on what led to the ref being partially deleted. I'm guessing from the editor's edit summary that they were intending to remove the reference as "redundant", but as to why the ref tags stayed in place, I'm not sure. Hopefully the editor remembers the actions they did in that edit. PEarley (WMF) (talk) 17:04, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It looks like WhatAmIDoing has reproduced it, see here. Fram (talk) 09:57, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, good stuff WAID. I'm unsure as to what we can do to avoid this - perhaps have VE strip out the ref tags if the reference dialog content is empty? PEarley (WMF) (talk) 22:31, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Please bring back VisualEditor
Why was this removed!? It was much easier to edit articles with the VisualEditor than by editing this nightmarish source code directly. Especially editing the middle of tables, ugh. We should be free to choose which editor we prefer, not forced to slog around in line noise like we're stuck in the dark ages. 71.167.70.47 (talk) 21:01, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Go to your preferences -> Editing tab. There's a checkbox to enable it. --Frederico1234 (talk) 21:46, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Anonymous editors don't have preferences. And at the moment, the WMF appears disinclined to provide an easy way for them to opt into using VE - see, above. Someone wanting to use VE is - at least at the moment - needs to have a useraccount (free! no personal information required!); then they can go to their preferences and enable VE. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 00:22, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

1 notice
When I open User:Fram/sandbox with VE, I get at the top a box, beneath the triangle exclamation mark symbol, saying "1 notice" (left), "X" (right), and (bottom right, redlinked) "Group notice  Page notice". I get the same in mainspace articles, without the "group notice". I don't think having an empty "notice" is useful for anyone... Fram (talk) 11:55, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I think this only turns up in admin accounts. Do you have an alternate non-admin account to test it in?  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:20, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Yep, seems only to happen to admins. Still annoying though :-) EngFram (talk) 12:17, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Probably obvious, but EngFram is my non-admin account ;-) Fram (talk) 12:19, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Returns
When I open Jill McCorkle in VE, I get some "hard return" symbols (enter arrows) in the lead, after "MA" and after "Bennington College". I don't think a WYSIWYG should show these (or else it should show "all" layout markers). Fram (talk) 11:58, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I think this is probably a "working as designed" issue. These appear when the wikitext is on two lines, but are part of one paragraph.  Most editors want to remove such things, and if they aren't displayed in VisualEditor, then people can't remove them.
 * What other layout markers do you think people would want to see? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:24, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, no idea actually... Fram (talk) 12:21, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It might be good to be able to see hard spaces, which are required in some circumstance as described by WP:MOS. Maybe there should be an option in VE to toggle between showing all layout markers and showing everything as WYSIWYG. - Evad37 (talk) 12:50, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

File thumb a lot smaller in VE than in reality
Noticed at Samuel Gordon (New York) that the thumb image is a lot smaller in VE than in read mode. This seems to be true for other articles as well, e.g. Metropolitan line (1933–88), so it doesn't seem to be article-related. Windows 7, Firefox 24. Fram (talk) 12:14, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Same here for Samuel Gordon (New York): Windows 8.0, both Firefox 24 and Chrome 30, thumbnail preference 200px. - Pointillist (talk) 12:54, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Is this happening for you on other pages? Is it all images, just this one?  What's your default thumbnail size at Special:Preferences?  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:26, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * For me, it happens on multiple pages (that's why I gave two examples), and my preferred thumbnail size is 220px. I get the same at e.g. Brooksby. Fram (talk) 19:30, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Me too, but it isn't consistent. I've just tried another test:
 * Log in under Chrome 30, Windows 8.1 on
 * Change thumbnail preference to 120px
 * Navigate to Florence_Baptistery Note that both South Doors and East Doors images are the same width.
 * Navigate to Florence_Baptistery?veaction=edit South Doors has become wider and East Doors is a little narrower.
 * Change thumbnail preference to 300px and repeat Exactly the same effect happens: South Doors has become wider and East Doors is a little narrower.
 * Log in under Safari, iOS 7 on iPad 2 landscape, still with 300px preference, and repeat Exactly the same effect happens: South Doors has become wider and East Doors is a little narrower.
 * A possible factor is the size and DPI settings of the original images. I downloaded them and examined the image sizes with Photoshop. South Doors is 3222 pixels wide at 298 pixels per inch. East Doors is 431 pixels wide at 72 pixels per inch. - Pointillist (talk) 20:55, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I've found the likely reason for the discrepancy between the South and East Doors above. The amount the image is resized is a function of whether it is portrait or landscape. Try editing User:Pointillist/TestImages with VisualEditor to see what I mean. - Pointillist (talk) 22:04, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Clueless
In VE, there are a few icons, most of which are common to word processors like MSW. But there are functions in word processors that are either missing or hard to find in VE. I just added an ISBN to Jill McCorkle. It went in as plain text. Since all the other ISBNs were hyperlinked, I tired to do that in VE. There is no paint-brush to copy format, so I tried using the link icon. since there are no instructions, I fiddled around for a while before giving up. Then I hti the pull-down more and tried every-thing that seemed likely: nope, at best some complicated confusing panes opened up. So I gave up. (If my computer were faster, I'd've switched out fo VE adn quickly made the change in code, but I thought it more important to leave a message here.) Kdammers (talk) 00:57, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * ISBN are usually automatically hyperlinked by MediaWiki.  gives ISBN 1234567890 without having anything to do. VE isn't doing this also ? --NicoV (Talk on frwiki) 14:25, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It works fine, if you know about prefixing the number with the ISBN magic word. Unfortunately, this isn't made clear at Help:ISBN. I've fixed the Jill McCorkle article and I've clarified the hatnote at Help:ISBN so it is easier to find the instructions at WP:ISBN. - Pointillist (talk) 15:07, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Kdammers, the ISBN linking thing, as mentioned above, is a bit different than standard wikilinking. We are working on a complete redesign of the reference editor, details are here (and feedback is welcome on the talk page).  When that goes live, ISBN linking will be a simple matter of pasting the number into the field given by the dialog window.  NicoV, the "magic words" method does work in VE, see: and result:  PEarley (WMF) (talk) 18:50, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't see it working: if I type  in VE, it's not displayed as ISBN 1234567890 (the link is not displayed in VE). Its only displayed correctly once saved, because MW parser does the trick, not VE. --NicoV (Talk on frwiki) 20:57, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course, you are correct. I have updated the guidance at WP:ISBN accordingly, but it would be simpler if we had a Template:ISBN that created ISBNs instead of complaining about the lack of them. - Pointillist (talk) 22:34, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Example of problematic VE editing

 * North Shore Medical Center: editor tries to cleanup an article, needs 5 VisualEditor edits to get it right, and then makes a non-VE edit anyway to add a hidden comment... Problems include putting an image in the middle of a sentence and adding too many single quotes (something I thought wasn't possible in VE?). Here you get a new section header with a trailing space (but no leading space), which is not a real error but sloppy anyway, and which VE could easily strip out. The editor corrects this, and adds a hidden comment, in his final, non-VE edit.

It's just a random example that caught my eye, indicating some of the common problems and some rather uncommon problems with VE. While VE slowly improves, it seems that very few of these day-to-day problems get fixed (the infobox deletion one is a recent good exception to this rule), while very low priority ones like "showing the size of an image while resizing it" become available. Fram (talk) 11:41, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Chess icon
I was trying to convert bad material into a comment in the article on Gerald Celente. When I came to the end of the comment and tried to close it (using html in lieu of any idea what else to use), I got what looks like a chess pawn when I previewed it: ♙. Kdammers (talk) 05:28, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi. I'm sorry for the complication. Since you didn't save it (understandably), I'm not entirely sure what syntax you used. I was able to leave a hidden comment in my sandbox with ordinary hidden comment syntax, with no pawns . It looked okay in preview in a couple of articles. Can you specify what you used so I can make sure that this particular pawn bug is already tracked, or track it if not? If that is the syntax you used, can you tell me what browser and operating system you were on? :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 14:11, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I don't recall exactly what I typed, but it was some-thing like --!> .  My opening appeared as wysiwyg, i.e., it did not get converted, undoubtedly because the close was the pawn. I was using Mozilla on Windows 7. Kdammers (talk) 13:09, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't duplicate this issue. :/ Using Mozilla, I was able to get it to accept (without the additional !) without any issue, and when I tried  it just broke the page completely. (Interestingly, it did not show in preview that it would, although when you try to do the same edit in standard editor it does. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:38, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Category adding not working
People in Hindu mythology Redtigerxyz  Talk 05:25, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi there, can you please confirm you followed the procedure described here? Thanks, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 13:09, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Works now. Don't know why it didn't work then? Followed the same procedure. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 05:45, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. The code's been updated since then, so maybe it was just something that got silently fixed.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:06, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Visual editor having issues with accent marks
For anyone interested in the technical details, the Parsoid team switched to a new form parsing library, and the new one defaulted to ISO-8859-1 rather than UTF-8. It appears that the problem was fixed on all wikis approximately 65 minutes after the update. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:33, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Error introduced in VE, but can only be solved in wikitext editing apparently
An editor made a lot of edits to Robert Lecker using VE, but gradually created a problem which strangely can only be corrected by wikitext editing aparrently... The problems seem to start here (scroll down and search for "The Annotated Bibliography of Canada's Major Authors"), and become worse here and here. Attempts to solve it only move the problem, here and here. Removing it in wikitext mode is no problem though.

Going back to that final VE edit, and opening it in VE: put your cursor behind the strange quote marks (in the Anthologies section), and start backspacing. Hurrah, they're gone! You get a wiki-markup warning, but that doessn't stop us. Now, on "save page", choose "review your changes": the marks you just removed with backspace are back there!

So, three VE questions / problems: why were these created in the first place, why can't we remove them, and why does the end result differ from the VE mode (i.e. they can be removed in VE mode, but reappear on saving anyway). Fram (talk) 09:30, 6 November 2013 (UTC)


 * When I tried to remove it, VE told me I was attempting to use MediaWiki markup. I forced through the save anyway, and it completely ignored that edit, as you observed. The one thing it had going for it - it did give me a link to the standard editor when it refused to let me use MediaWiki markup.


 * I don't know how he did it. :/ Anybody else have any ideas? --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 16:41, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Tough linking
It's hard to prove that this is a VE bug and not simply an editor error, but I've seen enough similar cases to fear the former: this edit creates homeschooling̩|.. I don't think the editor intended to link the period separately... Fram (talk) 09:42, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Especially with a link to nothing... --NicoV (Talk on frwiki) 09:47, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, it links (through a redirect) to Combining character, if you aim your pointer very carefully... Fram (talk) 09:50, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * My mistake, what you wrote almost looks like " |. " on FF 17 (except for a tiny pixel on the first "[": " ̩|. "). --NicoV (Talk on frwiki) 10:05, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem, I have no idea what the almost-pipe symbol actually is, it probably caused the problem in the first place? Fram (talk) 10:23, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Here as well, Arundo donax(giant reed) gets changed into Arundo donax( giant reed). Fram (talk) 12:24, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * This is a known problem. Apparently fixing it, while still allowing people to link only parts of the word when they want to, is very difficult.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:45, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

File placement problem, and lack of hidden comments
This edit again indicates the problem for users to place files correctly (i.e. not breaking sentences), and also indicates that the possibility to add hidden comments should be given (or, if it exists, made more noticeable to editors). Fram (talk) 09:44, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * These appear to be known concerns. For the image location issue, it's complicated:  if you can't put an image in the middle of a sentence, then you can't add inline images (like this: Yes_check.svg).  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:44, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Difference between view mode and VE editing mode
Minor, but any feedback is welcome, no? ;-) In Wisconsin v. Yoder, with my screen resolution (it will be different for others), the text "The parents' fundamental right to freedom of religion[...]" forms the second line of the lead in regular view and in VE mode (fine so far). Due to the double space between "8th grade." and "The parents' fundamental" though, in VE the line starts with an empty space, instead of left aligned as it should be. Is this intentional? It is not WYSIWYG, since such double spaces are not shown with double width in view mode. Fram (talk) 09:55, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe that it's intentional. VisualEditor is not actually meant to be WYSIWYG.  It is meant to use WYSIWYG techniques where those techniques are useful, and to not use them where they would prevent editors from seeing and being able to make certain kinds of changes (e.g., removing stray double spaces).  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:47, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Simple mobile test
I tried to add who after "by one of their graduates." on Cornerstone Community using Google Chrome on my Samsung Galaxy Note locked to vertical viewing. Positioning the cursor works well. I am stuck in a dialog that doesnt work, with the dialog including lots of whitespace but not the button I need. I then realise I can pinch the screen for the rest of the dialog to become visible. Success! John Vandenberg (chat) 11:23, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) The toobar isnt visible like it is in the desktop version.  I have to move the page so that the toolbar is visible, and the cursor is no longer visible, ...
 * 2) When I click 'More' in the toolbar, the drop down list is exposed, however the page then scrolls down to the cursor position.  I need to scroll back up to the top of the page to click 'Transclusion'
 * 3) When I click 'Transclusion', the transclusion dialog appears, with the left hand side consuming about 80% of the width, resulting in the template name textbox being barely visible.
 * 4) But I can put the cursor in the template name dialog, which causes the phone to zoom in on that textbox, and I type in 'Who'.  The list of possible templates appears, mostly off the screen to the right, but it includes who} and I can 'press' that entry.  Nothing happens.  The 'Add template' button isnt visible of course.  I then press Go on the Samsung keyboard and it does add the Who template to the left hand side.
 * 5) The 'Apply changes' button isnt visible.

Transluction-edit puzzle button issue
Rezonansowy (talk &bull;&#32; contribs) 15:06, 7 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Could you look for the icon to the upper right of the infobox? This sounds like, an old problem, where the icon is shown near the position of the template in the source text, not near the position of the "real" object in the editor window (the infobox "pushes" the template box downwards). The problem is over 3 months old, but hasn't been fixed yet unfortunately. GermanJoe (talk) 15:17, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's what I meant. --Rezonansowy (talk &bull;&#32; contribs) 16:28, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Some templates can't be moved.
But I have no idea which ones can and which ones can't. At Petabyte, the one at the start can't. Why? The navbox at the end has the typical navbox problem, and simply disappears. The reflist can be moved, but that's hardly necessary of course... Fram (talk) 15:40, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe that the common theme is that you can't move templates that are floated. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:27, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Category box shows after switching from source to VE
After switching from source editor to VE, the category box shows up at the top of the page, between the toolbar and the editable area (Monobook, FireFox 25, Windows 7):Jay8g [ V•T•E ] 03:08, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * This is also happening for me (Vector, Chrome 30, Win7), but only on pages with no categories, or only hidden categories. To test it in articles, go to Special:NewPagesFeed and look for articles with no categories. - Evad37 (talk) 03:34, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Strange typing
I have noticed similar things quite regularly, but never could find an example that was reproducable...

Open, click the ref ( [1] ), click the ref icon, click on the image, click the image icon, and start typing (e.g; "Caption"). The "C" goes to the second line, and "aption" appears on the first line. It is impssible to remove the C, as far as I can tell. Further typing, e.g. after the C, may reveal further strange results... Saving this shows that it is not simply a VE display problem, but that things get actually saved like this... 

Further tests show me that if I add an image or open one without a caption, and start typing the caption (any caption), I always get this result. FF25, Windows 7. Fram (talk) 15:27, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I can reproduce the weird 'C' being placed on the second line, and not being able to remove it, however when I tried to save the diff only shows 'aption'. FF25/Linux John Vandenberg (chat) 17:24, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Moving a navbox deletes it
When testing on Yersinia pseudotuberculosis, I moved the Template:Gram-negative proteobacterial bacterial diseases navbox from the bottom a bit higher. I dropped it after the "IPR015227" text a few lines higher. The result is that the navbox disappears from view, and in "review your changes" it is simply deleted. I haven't saved this result, doesn't seem to be a point in saving this... Further tests show that it doesn't really matter where I place the navbox, it always gets deleted. Testing on other articles indicate that this happens with all navboxes (test on Albert I of Belgium, which takes quite a while to open though...) Changing the order of the navboxes works, but as soon as you want to place it higher on the page, it disappears completely. Fram (talk) 09:31, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I've duplicated this issue on your example page, Fram, but when I try it on Dunn Peak, the problem doesn't appear: . Going to try it in a few different scenarios to try to figure out what the trigger is. PEarley (WMF) (talk) 15:58, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, haven't isolated the issue, but I'll post my results so far. If anyone spots something in common within the groups of test cases, let me know.
 * Test scenario: Click once on a "navbox" type template at the bottom of a page. Click and drag the item and drop at the top of an External links section.
 * Navbox disappears upon dropping: Page:Yersinia pseudotuberculosis Temp: Template:Gram-negative proteobacterial bacterial diseases, Page: Albert I of Belgium Temp: Template:Belgian princes, Page: Vancouver Canucks, Temp: Various, within Template:Navboxes
 * Navbox drops where it should: Page: Dunn Peak Temp: Template:Columbia Mountains, Page: Waging Heavy Peace: A Hippie Dream, Temp: Template:Neil Young, Page: British Columbia, Temp: Various, within Template:Navboxes PEarley (WMF) (talk) 16:49, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Bumping, still haven't found a trigger for this. PEarley (WMF) (talk) 19:20, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * All of the problems contain a sister link template like Commons. Of the ones that are working, the only one containing a sister template is the last, and that has its navboxes wrapped in the navboxes template.  The last also has a long list of external links, so that the ELs are taller than the sister link templates.  So that's two things we could check.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 14:42, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * What I'm thinking here is that the sister templates are floated, and we can't move floated templates. But my subsequent testing isn't obviously confirming my theory (nor is it exactly disproving it, either).  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:07, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Well... I spent almost an hour testing various things, and I've learned something: the navboxes stop disappearing if you break all the refs.  By "break", I mean change   into the completely broken  .  I have no idea why this makes navboxes quit disappearing, but perhaps I can claim to be confused at a more advanced level now.  If anyone wants to play with it, you'll find the articles in User:Whatamidoing_(WMF)/sandbox2.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:37, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Quick RfC, improving the current Template:VE Bug
Hi everybody! Some of you use Template:VE Bug in order to report bugs here. It's great that such a form exists, and I wish that other wikis had adopted it as well; I'd just like to suggest a few improvements for a very simple reason, we do know that a well written report helps developers a lot when they review, assess and assign bugs. Everybody knows that VE bugs can't really be triaged by anyone without knowing browser (and its version), skin, description and URL (or title at least) of the page where the error happened (I'd add that the OS seems needed as well). Many of us are familiar with this How to report a bug guide, and I would like to suggest that we slightly change the form so that some of those suggestions are included. For example, it would truly help if the Description field also prompted the user to include: (Please take a look at bug 55856 for an example of how this process might be easily described).
 * Steps to Reproduce:
 * Actual Results:
 * Expected Results:

Also, looks like templates like Tracked and Answered one very popular on this wiki, and thus the related fields of the current VE Bug form are unused.

Even if you don't actually use the form to report, please keep in mind that the elements in bold are the key, and I am planning to remind this at the top of this page soon :)

For those who are good at templates instead, please comment and suggest improvements of my mockup version for a new report form. Thank you all so much. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 12:18, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've left a slightly modified version at User:Elitre (WMF)/Sandbox2, with a note. - Pointillist (talk) 13:27, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot, user:Pointillist! I'll copy your comments here so that we can keep discussing about this:
 * <>


 * So, the web browser is actually a key element. Many browsers are whitelisted, but not all of their versions are, and there might be new issues coming up immediately after a new browser version is released.
 * The Workaround or suggested solution field is quite unused, so I'd leave that at the end.
 * The Notes field is helpful, and we might suggest there to get a screenshot, for example. (Unfortunately, unlogged users can't currently use VE on en.wp. This does not help, in that we do read often here about something going wrong that isn't really VE's fault, and it takes a lot of time, effort and patience to check/change/disable all the enabled gadgets and preferences). --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 10:36, 23 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The bugzilla form looks good. Only thing is Component section, I really don't understand the different components. Whats ContentEditable and TechnicalDebt about? I tend to just file under general and let someone else make it more specific.--User:Salix alba (talk): 18:11, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I think I share your concern, doesn't really help much ;) The point is, it's perfectly ok to go with General. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 21:47, 30 October 2013 (UTC)


 * In the meantime, I present you... the brand new Bugzilla report form! --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 21:38, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I changed User:Elitre_(WMF)/Sandbox2 again so that it mirrors the new form. If people get used to it, they'll be able to use Bugzilla autonomously in no time! Will "deploy" this tomorrow, if that's ok for you. Thanks a lot everybody, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 21:47, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * FYI your link to the brand new Bugzilla report form demands a Buzilla login (which recommends using an anonymous disposable email account etc). Any chance you could link to a bug report using the new bugzilla form? - Pointillist (talk) 22:47, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * A screenshot is on its way, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 22:52, 30 October 2013 (UTC) Now at File:Guided bug report form.png. Thanks a lot for pointing this out. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 23:00, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * That was quick! Looks good to me, but what do the regular bug reporters think? - Pointillist (talk) 23:12, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I was hoping to find out in this thread, but several of them seem pretty tired ;) Regulars! Chime in! --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 23:14, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Pointillist, User:Salix alba, User:Thryduulf Hey, since I don't usually publish templates... can someone make User:Elitre_(WMF)/Sandbox2 official? I am not sure we want to overwrite the original one. Also, would a link to mw:How_to_report_a_bug be enough as documentation, for the time being? Thanks, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 13:08, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm really not the person you need to ask about templates! Sorry, Thryduulf (talk) 15:49, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Now moved to VE Bug2 which I guess makes it official. Testing


 * --User:Salix alba (talk): 16:39, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks!!! I created Template:VE_Bug2/bug_template, so that it can be linked on this page as we did before. Salix, can you check if this is ok as well? --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 16:56, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It should be live now. Thanks everybody. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 14:19, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Toc Toc. Who's there?
When using VE, the TOC disappears (tested in Flags of counties of the United States and Auto racing). I don't think this happened already before the weekend, I think I would have noticed it... FF25, Windows 7. Fram (talk) 14:56, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm here, and you missed 49224! --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 14:59, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Funny how we (well, I) can miss things that have been lacking for so long... Fram (talk) 15:17, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Some positive feedback
I did a significant copy-edit of an article today, using VisualEditor as much as possible. There were still a few things I had to use wikitext for (in particular, accented letters and some odd template stuff), but on the whole I was able to complete the edits with just VisualEditor. I would not have been able to do that four months ago. Good work on the steady progress. Risker (talk) 06:40, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey Risker. Your words are appreciated. Did you have a chance to test the "Switch to wikitext" feature yet? Regards, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 12:31, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Bitching about testing
I have been told by some that I shouldn't blame WMF (devs, systems, whatever) for the shortcomings of VE, but seriously, sometimes it can't be helped. If it tunrs out that my reason for this post is based on flawed information, then please let me know. Otherwise:

The switch between VE and wikitext editing has been active now for a few weeks, and was announced at e.g. VisualEditor/status as one of the major new features of the month in VE.

As far as I can tell, this has never worked in Firefox (see VisualEditor/Feedback. If correct, this means that a major new feature has not been tested on one of the two or three main browsers for VE. Coupled with the serious failure of early November with accents, which revealed that new VE releases were (until then) not tested on non-enwiki versions, makes it obvious that the criticisms which were raised multiple times and which led in part to the RfC fiasco here, have not changed anything at WMF (or whichever part of WMF is responsible for this) concerning this.

Why should we believe anything the WMF tells us wrt to testing, feedback, learned lessons, and so on if it looks as if in reality all we get is a big "fuck you, we don't do testing, you are still the guinea pigs" anyway? Why would we believe that the approach to e.g. Flow will be any better? Fram (talk) 14:10, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Quick! Hide in the middle of the text!
The handling of hidden elements (some templates like italictitle, persondata, ...; and of course categories) in VE really messes up the wikitext layout of pages. See e.g. here, where a whole lot of text is added after the persondata and categories, but before the stub tag. While this happens in wikitext editing as well, in VE it is much easier and can be done by editors not wanting to do this but getting this result anyway. Luckily, the editor noticed this and corrected it in the wikitext editor, which again makes one wonder what the added value of VE is. Fram (talk) 08:56, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

citation needed
Here, at "humor effect", you get a citation needed with a reason. In VE mode, you get a "span title =" which shouldn't be there... Fram (talk) 14:05, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I tested this, and I guess it depends on the inverted commas. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 14:54, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The template's docs say not to use double quotation marks, and, indeed, things behave oddly if you don't follow the instructions and correctly if you do. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:55, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Strange result
Here, something went wrong. Note the editor succeeded in introducing wiki-markup into the VE text :-) Probably not a very common bug (or occurrence, "bug" may be the wrong word here), but indicative that the wiki-linking feature perhaps isn't as intuitive as hoped. Fram (talk) 14:52, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I just found out that if you want to add a word between brackets in VE, it will actually suppress the opening ones, but it will leave the closing ones. Note that you can still re-add the opening ones, and that my edit did not trigger the wikimarkup warning. Not sure if this is known, will investigate more tomorrow. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 21:21, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Bumping this, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 14:44, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't replicate this. When I type This, I get the expected result of  .  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:28, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
 * About what Fram is reporting, that is not unusual AFAIK - when you add wikicode, you just get a warning message and what you do will not work properly, but you can still save. About what I said instead, it does happen to me, so it's now at 57207. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 21:40, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I've added a note about which browsers I've tried. It might be specific to Chrome or to Windows.  But it's hard to know, since it's not happening consistently for you.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:29, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

How do I insert a picture?
I want to copy an image from one site (characters in the t.v. show "Bones") to another site, (List of fictional anthropologists). I got the picture to copy (using the source file) onto the media page (though there was no explanation of what to do), but then I was stumped. There was no "paste," "apply," "do" or any other similar button (to say nothing of there being no explanation there or at the guide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/User_guide) page. All I saw was a big X.  Suffice it to say that I didn't succeed in getting the picture onto the page. Kdammers (talk) 01:39, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, you can't. Someday in the distant future probably... Fram (talk) 09:35, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Then why is there a media button? In any case, if it is non-operative, there should be a notice to that effect. Kdammers (talk) 12:02, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The feature, AFAIK, is working as intended. It lets you choose pics from local wikis or Commons, you just need to give it a keyword. The guide does explain how it works. Thanks, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 12:28, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Kdammers, you asked "How do I insert a picture?" and later "why is there a media button?" The answer to those is: you can insert a picture using the media button, it works (more or less, e.g. don't try to insert it at the left side...). But what you actually wanted to do, was copy an image from one article to another using VE. This is not possible (although it would of course be very useful). What you have to do is determine the file name (which is impossible in VE! You have to do it in wikitext), and then type that name into the destination article into the box you get when you chose "media". Obviously, if you are savvy enough to open wikitext to find the filename, you'll probably simply copy-paste the full "file" text and open the other article in wikitext as well...

Elitre, I presume you misunderstood the intended question (understandably, it wasn't very clear), but I hope that you don't mean that the lack of copy-paste (and many other features) in the "media" feature is "working as intended", but that the feature works for the few things it does, but is severely lacking in many others. If it truly was the intention that the "media" option only would offer what it does now, then I don't think VE will ever be considered non-beta. Fram (talk) 12:38, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Fram, we are all aware that copy/paste for VE has not reached that point yet. My point was merely that, right now, the Media option does what is explained in the Guide :). As a wikipedian, I'd be quite concerned about copy/pasting of images which are not already uploaded on our servers with full information about author, license and so on (particularly for those wikis like it.wp for which Fair Use is not an option). --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 12:46, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm discussing copy paste from one enwiki article to another, obviously. I'm totally in agreement that copy-pasting images from outside Wikipedia is a rather bad idea generally. Fram (talk) 13:30, 8 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Fram, yes I can insert pictures using wikitext, but my concern is with improving VE. I just noticed that for some sites (e.g., Asian pear, when I go to media in VE, I get a gallery of possible images that are insertable with one click on a chosen image. So, for some sites 'media' works for me with-out my having "think" at all, i.e., I found it intuitive.  But for other sites, where there is no gallery (where does the gallery come from?), it sounds to me like You are saying is that I should enter the file name into the rectangle to the right of the magnifying glass.  Okeh, but then what?  Entering the file name alone does not activate any-thing. Hitting enter does not activate any-thing.  The X will only kill it.  Kdammers (talk) 08:03, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

I never thought to click on the "Insert Media or the icon next to it, since that seemed like nothing more than the title.  But checking back I tried it, but clicking on them didn't do any-thing any-way. Kdammers (talk) 08:05, 9 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Regarding your question of where the gallery comes from, the user guide says "Clicking the 'Media' icon opens a dialog that automatically searches this Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons for media files, using the name of the page you are editing." So in the case of "Asian pear", the search functionality is finding a lot of matches. On the other hand, if you go to (for example, a random article I just went to) Marsh Lake (Nova Scotia), the search doesn't find anything.


 * Regarding "Entering the file name alone does not activate any-thing," that's not my experience. If you paste the file name in (but not "File:", which isn't part of the file name), you should see definitely see the image you want (from Wikimedia Commons).


 * If that still doesn't work for you, please let us know the file name of the image/picture, and the article you were trying to add the image to. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 02:09, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * There are some problems (predating VisualEditor) with Commons' search indexing that especially affect images that were uploaded recently. Most of them process through in a day or two, but searching for an image that you just uploaded a few minutes ago can sometimes be an exercise in frustration (regardless of whether you're searching for it inside VisualEditor or at Commons in the regular search box).  There are bugs open on the problem:  Commons' search indexing needs to be improved, and VisualEditor needs (IMO) to be able to add images based on exact file names.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 02:15, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * You might also want to see 37932 and 38031. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 13:35, 11 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, now it DID work when I entered (a different - I can't remember what the other file name was) file name. But now I have another problem.  How do I put a label underneath the picture?  Simple typing does not work.  Should I have labeled (if so, how?) before it got inserted?  Is there some special place for adding text associated with illustrations?  Kdammers (talk) 02:28, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, you're trying to add a caption, if I understand correctly? This section of the user guide has a section about it, please report if the described procedure doesn't work for you. Thanks, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 13:43, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank You, Elitre.  For me that was hardly intuitive, even though after the fact it seems logical.  But, even so, it doesn't exactly work for me.  When I try to type in the caption, The letters don't appear in the order I type them:  "Emily DeSchanel" appears as "mily DeSchanel"  and "E" down a line.  The "E" could not be erased.  By using the back key, I started over (2 times, i.e., a total of three tries), and got the same result.  Then when I went back to the article and started again, I got a long list that looks some-thing like this:

"E" "ily DeSchanel" "mily DeSchane" "ly DeSchan" etc. when I tried to erase this mess, I could only erase some of it, leaving a list about 5 or ten lines long with one and two letters per line. Other than backing out (or adding stuff), I can't seem to do any-thing with this.Kdammers (talk) 09:24, 16 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, I noted that problem here some time ago (even forgot to add it to the list of most problematic remaining problems in the section above, there are just too many of those remaining...). At the moment (and for some time already), you can't add a decent caption to an image. Makes the image handling a bit useless of course. I have complained to about the many problems with file handling, but received the response "@Fram: I'm immensely puzzled by this - VisualEditor has not remotely "eliminated nearly all functionality" from media files. We have repeatedly and clearly said over the last nine months that the rest of the functionality (all of it) is coming, but is less of a priority. If you're going to mis-represent that, how can we have a proper conversation about the matter on which we should focus and when? Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 18:13, 11 October 2013 (UTC) "  (see User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)). This and other similar responses coming from someone whose paid job description is "My job is to help make sure the VisualEditor team understands what the community wants and needs, is focussed on the things that matter, and is engaging with and understood by the community." makes one understand the rift between some of the main people at WMF and the people for who they supposdly are developing software (see also Erik Möller, the WMF Deputy Director, and User:Jorm (WMF), the "Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation" for examples of this rift). I don't think VE will be out of BETA mode anytime soon... Fram (talk) 08:12, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It won't be, and that's the key. Now checking if anyone has filed this issue. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 21:45, 18 November 2013 (UTC) Now at 57211, and thanks for reporting this: I suspect that many new features are coming on that front, though. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 22:02, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I suspect that this is specific to Firefox. I have no trouble adding an image with a caption, or even adding a ref to a caption in Safari.  But I get the same results in Firefox 25.  It would be useful if someone would try to add a caption in Chrome and let us know the results.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:53, 18 November 2013 (UTC)