Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2012 February 20

= February 20 =

Noteworthy vs. Not
Hi, I'd like to inquire what the difference is between these 2 submissions. Noteworthy vs. not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devon_Soltendieck (noteworthy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Marc_Andrew (not) Both individuals are media figures. Their accomplishments are parallel, the later, if not more. Please let me know the difference between these 2 articles, as it may help understand the reason it was declined. Thanks for your time, Barb — Preceding unsigned comment added by BarbSlade (talk • contribs) 00:27, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Articles are not compared to each other for apparent noteworthiness; the issue here is one of sources cited. The Devon Soltendieck cites three reliable third party sources : the Toronto Star, the Edmonton Journal, and the Ottawa Citizen. Your submission cites only one such source, the Montreal Gazette, and it is not third-party in this case. CharlieEchoTango  ( contact ) 00:37, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Pie
There is nothing wrong with this article in my view. This magazine is published in Chapters and this is a reference to the company. What is the issue specifically? — Preceding unsigned comment added by WM324AHI (talk • contribs) 02:02, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi,


 * Actually the article is not bad compared to many other. I'm not sure what the reviewer found when they checked your references, but I found that one was a "Page Not Found", one was a blank page, and the third was a blog, which is not considered a reliable source.  The two bad links may be a simple fix, or maybe I have a problem.


 * Thanks for you efforts, :- ) DCS  05:08, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Auslogics Disk Defrag
Hello, I wrote an article, which was declined by reviewer Bmusician. My message on Bmusician's talk page has been ignored since I posted it there on February 16, so I'm seeking help from other editors. Could someone please tell me how I can make my article better so it can be included in Wikipedia? Here is a link to my message on the reviewer's talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Bmusician#Declined_article_on_Auslogics_Disk_Defrag and this is where you can find my article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Auslogics_Disk_Defrag I thank you very much in advance for your response and any guidance you can give me. Sincerely, TaraSwimms (talk) 08:22, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Pending a technicality, although I'm planning on accepting. Thanks for your submission. :) Nolelover Talk·Contribs 16:13, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Darius Rafat
I would like to ask why the reviewer is declining this article all the time. The subject/person is a notable musician, producer and tv personality for obvious reasons. The sources and published material about him are independent and reliable and his article in the german Wikipedia ( http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darius_Rafat) is online for many years. Looking forward hearing from you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.24.53.33 (talk) 10:43, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright...just looking through your sources...they are definitely not independent and reliable. You've got multiple primary sources, plus a press release and other that don't really discuss Rafat in any detail. The stuff in "weblinks" isn't much better...more press releases, reliable sources, and brief mentions. I'm sorry, but you really don't have a single source that really stands out. :( Nolelover Talk·Contribs 17:05, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi There, i received your answer. Thanks for that, but I would kindly ask you to check again on the sources and weblinks as they are definitely showing independent and reliable publications about the subject and discussing the person explicitly. However, we added 2 more independent published sources as marked. Maybe its not quite clear for you as most of it is in german language. For example IMDB (Internet Movie Data Base), the german, Aids Gala (this one especially, a whole independent article) Article are all independent publications about the person. Additional to that his work references are more of a proof and a reliable source of his work in international music business. It would be great if you can go through it once again and then accept it. Once again, the german Wikipedia Article (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darius_Rafat) was also accepted and published already years ago. Looking forward hearing from you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.24.53.33 (talk) 12:11, 17 February 2012 (UTC) Very well, I shall go through each one and explain them all. You currently have eight references and six external links, after I took out the duplicates.
 * Ref #1 is a primary source. It's probably reliable, as far at that goes, but since it is directly affiliated with Rafat is doesn't help to establish notability.
 * Ref #2 is also decently reliable, but there is absolutely no significant detail of Rafat. He is one name on a credit list, and that's all.
 * Ref #3 is an e-card. Yes, it has his name, and even a short bio, but that is not what we want to see as far as reliable sources go.
 * Ref #4 is a press release, and hence not independent.
 * Ref #5 is from a venue he played at. Again, not independent.
 * Ref #6 has less then one sentence on Rafat.
 * Ref #7 appears to be a blog.
 * Ref #8 is another press release.

I'll briefly run through the external links. IMDb is user-submitted, and not considered reliable here on WP. The next two are just lists, with his name on them. The next two had one sentence or less on Rafat, and on the last (which might be another press release) I hit a paywall. Now do you understand what I meant when I said that none of your sources really stood out? I'm sorry, but that's still the case. Please read WP:VRS (it's extremely short) - can you find any sources that would fit that bill? Nolelover Talk</b>·<b style="color:Gold;">Contribs</b> 20:20, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi, we just read your answer and we really all have to disagree with you. You have so many different sources and proofs now, why are you making it so complicated? come on... And your interpretations about Wikipedias WK VRS list is quite arguable. Why are press releases from different typs of entertainment biz writers or music journalists not independent? IMDB is not only user-based, but is used by all major film, tv and media productions itself who list their cast and crew on the Internet Movie Data Base. You can not get into IMDB if its not reliable or if the topic which is listed hasn't been actually on air or published! Its not working like that. So, we really are interested what you would like to see as a source that "stands out" more?? Why is the official list of composers in Germany not reliable and independent? Why is all the information you have got in front of you from different tv shows, music productions, Producing credits, songwriting credits, press releases and your own accepted german Wikipedia article etc not reliable?? So, that makes no sense, right? And again, why is our subject/ person we are trying on now for the 7th time now already accepted and published in WIKIPEDIA the german version?? Could you please comment on that and explain what exactly your problem is......Thanks in advance — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.24.53.33 (talk) 22:51, 17 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay, so...


 * 1) Firstly, if you have a problem with WP:VRS, go onto its talk page, not here.
 * 2) As far as I can see, the press releases are from venues, companies, or representatives connected with him.
 * 3) Actually, IMDB is largely user-submitted, thus we do not know if it is a reliable source. (It would be like citing Wikipedia itself as a source and calling it reliable)
 * 4) Something that stands out would be an article or review from a completely independent (meaning no venues he's been at, or Fat Music London, or his representatives) reliable source (meaning no IMDB, Wikipedia, blogs, etc.). Stuff that could be in this category would be newspapers, magazines, web aggregrates (reliable ones), and so on.
 * 5) Credits are not a source showing notability, press releases are not independent.
 * 6) English Wikipedia is a separate project from German Wikipedia. Frankly, we don't care too much about what they do there.
 * 7) The problem is the sourcing, as has been detailed by Nolelover and me. A412  (Talk * C) 23:34, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me try to be as clear and un-complicated as possible. Articles require significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. For one reason or another, none of your sources fulfill those criteria. Other then that, A412 nails it, and I can back up his statement that the German Wikipedia doesn't matter here. If they have an article, great. That doesn't require us to have one here. Furthermore, if you can't understand how a press release is not independent, or what "significant coverage" means, then I really don't think we can help you. <b style="color:FireBrick;">Nolelover</b> <b style="color:Gold;">Talk</b>·<b style="color:Gold;">Contribs</b> 01:20, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, wow!

we don't have a problem with WP:VRS, the thing is though that we clearly fulfill your criteria. Very simple.

Do you really think saying "Frankly, we don't care too much about what they do there" speaks very well for someone is who working at a free, open-minded and international Enclyclopedic Organisation who is run through donations? Are you serious?

Obviously your own opinion about how to see or interpret things is more important than the simple fact of published and proven material which is out in the WWW for everybody to see. EVEN IN YOUR OWN WEBSITE! Its not about you or how you see things but what actually is true and reliable. Its about whats notable and interesting for the public. If you don't believe or it still isnt clear to you yet then take a minute and google the name and subject we are trying to get an english version for. What about that?

Regarding your point 4: The press releases are exactly what you are asking us for: there are totally independent, because its clearly NOT generated either by the business or organization it is written about, or by a business or person hired by or affiliated with the organization. (nobody knows the writers or journalists), they were written and published independently because of the various happening tv shows, performances, involvements in music etc. They were written and published because our subject/ person is a known entertainment figure and was the host and producer of the shows we are citing or the composer of the biggest saturday night show in europe viewed by 10 million people. What is so difficult to understand about it and why isn't it independent to you? That still makes no sense.

The thing is: we are talking about an international music producer with a proven track record all over, who is widely responsible for a lot of famous artists to make money and to find alternative revenue streams in this difficult times of music business with unpaid downloads, copyright fraud etc through his companies brand entertainment and partnerships deals and you still are making our Article dependent on what you think is not quite fulfilling in some format.

Well, if the written above doesn't bother you we think it would be only fair if you show this article, our sources, references and our dialogs to your head of staff and to at least 5 of your collegues where at least one of them knows german language and can really check and see the reliability to get a independent and proper feedback from more then just yourself or one more colleague.

Looking forward — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.24.53.33 (talk) 10:33, 18 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi. I was asked by Nolelover to give a second opinion, and I have to say I agree with those who have attempted to address this issue here. It's nothing to do with whether individual editors have any sympathy for your cause—they're just following established guidelines that have been established through consensus. We require independent sources for articles, because without them, Wikipedia risks becoming a directory for every person trying to get a publicity boost. Open up Wikipedia, and instead of some informative piece about the Meermin slave mutiny, you'd instead see hundreds of articles providing "information" about "up-and-coming" businesses and artists. That's not what we're here to do.
 * To address your point, press releases are not independent—of the two you cited, one is published by a PR agency and the other by the label who published Rafat's albums. Both are in some way connected to Rafat, so neither is independent. Furthermore, Wikipedia is not reliable. Anyone can edit Wikipedia articles, so they are not evidence of notability. You argue that Darius Rafat is an established and notable producer. To show that, you need to give us independent sources—we can't just rely on your word for it.
 * Basically, if you can find significant coverage in multiple sources that are unambiguously independent and reliable—newspaper articles and articles in music magazines are where people commonly look (I tried looking on Google and couldn't find much), then there would be no problem with using those sources to write an article. But what you have right now simply isn't enough, sorry. wctaiwan (talk) 16:20, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks wctaiwan. 176, I'm sorry you feel as you do. Seriously, I am. I've been trying to give you the best advice I can, because I do think that you have the foundation of a good article here. Unfortunately, I know from experience that if this was created, it would almost certainly be deleted at WP:Articles for deletion. I can't go get five more editors to look at this, but if you would like to go and ask some yourself to come here and look at this, that would be fine. I don't have a "head of staff" - we're all volunteers. If there's anything else I can do, let me know. <b style="color:FireBrick;">Nolelover</b> <b style="color:Gold;">Talk</b>·<b style="color:Gold;">Contribs</b> 16:36, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to try and rewrite this article to end this argument. He might be notable, who knows? Anybody here at AFC read German, by the way? A412 (Talk &bull; C) 19:27, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Mabdul <span style="color:rgb(60, 200,200);font-weight:bold;">:- ) DCS  03:59, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Hey there, alright, we totally appreciate and respect your feedback. Well, let us find us some more (hopefully) reliable sources for you to sort this out and maybe we then can end this dialogue and all be happy about the new english Wikipedia version of the already existing german article. If the mentioned re-written version of you fits well and is suitable, thats fine with us, even better. Best regards.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.24.53.33 (talk) 00:17, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi there, we now saw that the article was re-structured and rewritten by you and to us it looks great. We are happy with it.

Regarding these 2 little requested citations for his marriage and residence and his work being featured in different countries, they are no independent sources for that as this confidential information by his management we have contact to. But it quite clear that the information is true as we know it for sure and his official contact address is London. We are not able to provide you with his marriage certificate, but this a fact as well.

So, we are now looking forward that our article is going to be accepted and to be published.

Best regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.24.53.33 (talk) 18:34, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi, we now saw that you again requested these citations:

to requested Citation 1: Regarding his stage debut at age ten, there is no published or written source about that. There is just one picture of it and we dont have access to it. That was 1987! We know it from his office. How can we give you a citations for that?

to requested citation 2: regarding the music exposure in different countries: Again, we can not provide you with the different broadcasters media plans for their On-Air performances. This is not public info, but reliable info from his office due to his various international clients.

to requested citation 3: Marriage and residence: How can we provide you with sources about that? We don't have them of course. We don't have his marriage certificate and residence card and why is this needed to be cited? How can you cite that somebody is married? Sometimes people marry totally private and unknown. But we know for sure that he is married and that he lives in London. Thats a fact. We found an entry in the residence registry of London, but we can not cite this and give out his private address to make it public due to privacy law.

So, we kindly ask you to take this for a word and and accept our article now.

Best regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.24.53.33 (talk) 09:29, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi again, ok we dropped the statements and corrected the article. We hope its fine now.

The citation request for the sponsorship topic is already included and cited in citation Nr.6, which was published independly in a renowned professional magazine for advertising and marketing so that should be fine now as well.

We are now finally looking forward to your approval.

Best — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.24.53.33 (talk) 14:14, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

✅

Thanks for all your hard work. If your article would have been accepted immediately, it could have been deleted the next day, then it would be even harder. Now that is not likely to happen. Thanks again. <span style="color:rgb(60, 200,200);font-weight:bold;">:- ) DCS 23:50, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Just FYI: The person is indeed notable (the German Wikipedia is there a bit more restrictive in "accepting" and keeping articles - for an indicator next time) - but this draft/article lacks still independent sources... In our normal criteria I would have declined it since there are only press releases and primary sources included ;) <b style="font-family:Courier New; display:inline; border:#009 1px dashed; padding:1px 6px 2px 7px; white-space:nowrap; color:#000000; font-size:smaller;">mabdul</b> 08:42, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Rude Kid
I recently wrote an article for Musician and Producer Rude Kid who is only recently becoming known. The text I used for the article was text that appears on his official facebook fan page, and seems to be the only accessible text available at present. As he is a relatively new name, there isnt too much information on him and I am struggling to find references to include. There are a few at the included links but not much else. Are there ways of still being able to publish this article on Wikipedia without having much available for referencing?

http://www.last.fm/music/Rude+Kid

http://sharemyplaylists.com/artists/Rude+Kid — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eddy Mac (talk • contribs) 10:53, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm really sorry, but articles require significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. This is extremely important, especially for biographies of living people (what we call WP:BLPs). Because of previous incidents, which you've probably heard of, we have to take these very seriously, and good sources are an absolute must. <b style="color:FireBrick;">Nolelover</b> <b style="color:Gold;">Talk</b>·<b style="color:Gold;">Contribs</b> 16:32, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/GOCHA PASIESHVILI World Champion in Kickboxing
how can I upload photos and videos — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tatyanatsapi (talk • contribs) 12:22, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know if you can upload videos at all (and almost certainly not the videos you're probably thinking of) but pictures are much easier. First of all, if you're trying to upload a picture of Pasieshvili it must be either a free picture (licensing-wise) or one that you took yourself. Is that the case? <b style="color:FireBrick;">Nolelover</b> <b style="color:Gold;">Talk</b>·<b style="color:Gold;">Contribs</b> 16:38, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/K.G.SAMINATHAN (KGS) – DMK LEADER
More evident why it is published, He is the grand son of K.K.Govindasamy, brother of K.K.Neelamaham, a well known D.K leader, freind of thandhai periyar Ramasamy.

Mr.K.G.Saminathan's political life history was written by Mr.K.Veeramani (D.K.Leader) on his book oliyum oliyum.

I have a soft copy in tamil language, please advise how I can send for your review — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jilba2011 (talk • contribs) 14:19, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It's alright...you don't have to send it to us. However, you do need to provide reliable sources (like the book) in your submission, and right now you don't have any. <b style="color:FireBrick;">Nolelover</b> <b style="color:Gold;">Talk</b>·<b style="color:Gold;">Contribs</b> 16:44, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * This link should help explain how to add the information to your article: WP:REFBEGIN   <span style="color:rgb(60, 200,200);font-weight:bold;">:- ) DCS  21:23, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Juduculla Rock
I made all the suggestions from the reviewer. I also went to the talk page to get feedback and I made those changes. I have tried resubmitting the article for review, and it has not been re-reviewed. What am I doing wrong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Janus57 (talk • contribs) 14:39, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe nothing. I am looking into this for you.  <span style="color:rgb(60, 200,200);font-weight:bold;">:- ) DCS  15:32, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * There was a technical problem with your submission. It has been fixed, and your article is >here<.  <span style="color:rgb(60, 200,200);font-weight:bold;">:- ) DCS  23:55, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

✅

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Foraminoplasty
I am a busy spine surgeon I am finding this system so antiquated. I edited much of what I had entered on the site under foraminoplasty yet my amendments have been ignored The system says enter 4 ~ to save the edits yet I entered these and the amendments have been ignored Then you dare to say that my preparations will be removed if |I do not update within a week Do you really want world leaders to submit on your site and why do you not make it easier to submit — Preceding unsigned comment added by Missurgeon (talk • contribs) 20:23, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand what you had a problem with. Are you saying that you attempted to edit your submission and it didn't save? Putting four tildes ("`") automatically places your signature there...its an easy way to tell who said what. Now, you may be a surgeon, but you still can't copy other's work. <b style="color:FireBrick;">Nolelover</b> <b style="color:Gold;">Talk</b>·<b style="color:Gold;">Contribs</b> 20:38, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, if what you mean is that the content on the linked site is written by you, consider submitting an open ticket response system ticket. Also see WP:Donating copyrighted materials. A412  (Talk &bull; C) 21:13, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I have made many changes to my first deposition but can not seem to save my changes Really annoyed — Preceding unsigned comment added by Missurgeon (talk • contribs) 21:34, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Now I wonder if you will see this response: Thank you so much for trying to help me I am not copying anybodies work but my own So to save my amendments I should insert Missurgeon (talk) 21:44, 20 February 2012 (UTC) my name 21:44, 20 February 2012 (UTC) but where do I put it? How do I stop the page being dumped because I have not had time to go over it again within a week? It seems a pity that all this work should be for nought Why do you not have a SAVE button on the page like other software? There is an entree paragraph which I want to improve upon but there is no edit button for this so how do amend this section?


 * Okay so-


 * No, you do not to sign ~ on articles to save. However, at the bottom of the page there is a "Save page" button to save contributions.
 * 1) It will not be deleted after a week. Wikipedia has no deadline.
 * 2) There is a save button. Below the edit box.
 * 3) The problem is, most of the article is currently copied from here. If this is yours, please read and follow WP:Donating copyrighted materials. If it is, it can be restored. If it is not, it is probably better to start over. A412  (Talk &bull; C) 22:05, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * To clarify, four tildes puts your signature (which for me is a red "Nolelover", a yellow "talk" and "contribs" and a datestamp). It doesn't affect whether the page saves at all. Your submission won't be deleted - the message is a bit confusing and I'm working with another editor right now to fix it. <b style="color:FireBrick;">Nolelover</b> <b style="color:Gold;">Talk</b>·<b style="color:Gold;">Contribs</b> 22:11, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Sam Hanna Bell
I am sad and frustrated because yet another Wikipedia reviewer appears to believe Sam Hanna Bell is not noteworthy even though I've provided referenced evidence from reliable published third parties that a 'blue plaque' [see Wikipedia articles on blue plaques - they are erected to honour 'notable' people] was erected at the house where he wrote his masterpiece, they guy was awarded an MBE by the British govt and his work has received multiple plaudits and been made into a film. For goodness' sake.

I've put valuable time into trying to improve Wikipedia by seeing this gap and drafting this article but now I am nearly ready to drop it. It would be wasting everybody's time to keep robotically resubmitting this in hope of finding an intelligent reviewer. Is there no appeals process? Please help. Marcos182 (talk) 21:24, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Accepted :) <b style="color:FireBrick;">Nolelover</b> <b style="color:Gold;">Talk</b>·<b style="color:Gold;">Contribs</b> 21:42, 20 February 2012 (UTC)