Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2012 July 17

= July 17 =

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Frank Bua
I'm not sure what the issue is here... your article on The Radiators already admits Frank Bua of Mandeville, LA is their bassist. You already have articles on every other member of The Radiators. Is it really plausible that three of the four members of a band would be noteworthy, but not the fourth? Excuse me while I go delete the Ringo Starr page from your site. Screw that, I'll delete Peter Best's page as well.

In finding sources, I did the best I could... whether or not a topic is noteworthy is determined by the presence or absence of sources. Rather, it is the obligation of an author to 1) only submit articles that meet the notability guidelines and 2) to provide citations within the article to the best of his/her ability. I did both of these things. Really, I thought I had two pretty decent sources. Whoever declined my article should not be a moderator at this site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.200.202.244 (talk) 03:49, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I assume you are talking about The Radiators (American band). If you check the tags on that article, it is NOT a shining example of reliably sourced material.  In any case, neither of your references is a reliable source, one is a forum to which anyone can post, and the other is youtube, to which anyone can post.  If Frank Bua is really notable, someone who works for a reliable, trustworthy, and independent source should have noticed him and written something about him, that is a definition of notable.  Nobody reliable and independent has written much about me(arrest reports don't count), that's why I'm not in the Wiki either.  Check newspaper archives, magazine archives, I'm sure you can find something.    :- ) Don  05:20, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Review of User:Zonkelnut/sandbox
I have uploaded a image to http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Open_Data_Quality_Management_Framework.png#filelinks but can not access the file on my main page.

Please help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zonkelnut (talk • contribs) 06:37, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Code is in my sandbox here: User:Dcshank/sandbox. Image is quite large use XXXpx tag to adjust size.   :- ) Don  06:42, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Pico Far East Holdings Ltd.
Hi there,

I've spent quite a bit of time scrutinizing the Wikipedia article guidelines and ‘The Golden Rule’ and I have just made my fourth re-submission of the article entitled Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Pico Far East Holdings Ltd.

With the extra references, I am quite certain the article now meets the guidelines for notability, neutrality, advertising and significant coverage in reliable and independent sources.

If for some reason the article still does not meet the criteria, however, I would like to request a more detailed explanation as to the reasons why.

My request is based on this article on Jack Morton Worldwide - though with qualifiers at the top of the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Morton_Worldwide. I am confused as to why an article using much more biased language would be given a ‘pass’, while a simple, factual article on a large company would not.

Thanks! Mjqpico (talk) 06:57, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Regarding Jack Morton Worldwide: Other articles with problems exist, and that one is already tagged for those problems, but that doesn't give yours a free pass - each article must stand on its own merits.
 * I'd suggest expanding your draft a little based on the Standard article given as a reference - that's a very good source, and it provides quite some details you currently do not mention. For example it highlights some of the more notable projects PICO has been involved in, such as the Shanghai World Expo pavillons they designed. Some of the other references are a little more questionable - the stock exchange listings and the Google Financial page provide only trivial coverage - but in my opinion the news sources suffice to establish notability. Huon (talk) 09:36, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Tunnel People
Hello, I am the one who's editing “Tunnel People” page Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Tunnel_People. The user David FLXD left a comment that I think is a bit rude, what do you think about that? here's the comment:

Comment: What is the ISBN number of "Voeten"'s book? Among many other questions. Such as, "If he exists, and if he wrote a book, did he piggyback his book off the work of Margaret Morton and the others who were actually there?" David_FLXD (Talk) 19:14, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Moreover, I want to know exactly how can I improve sources to make the page accepted: what do you think it's missing? I have read both wiki page about referencing for beginners and citing sources and I don't understand what's wrong, can you please help me? Ransfortstraat (talk) 09:15, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think the comment is rude; the ISBN is a central piece of information on any book (at least on any published since, say, 1950).
 * What you need to have the page accepted are references that actually mention the article's subject in some detail. Most of those you currently have were published before the book was - they obviously cannot tell us anything about the book. Also, Wikipedia does not consider itself a reliable source; you should not use other Wikipedia articles as references. The only source that does mention Voeten's book (besides the publisher's website, which is not a reliable source on its own books) is a review in molossus, and I'm not sure about its reliability. (And if David FLXD missed that one reference, his question on whether Voeten lived in the tunnels himself is perfectly understandable - the other references all deal with other people living in the tunnels and writing about it.) At least one other secondary source discussing the book would go a long way in establishing its notability. Huon (talk) 09:59, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Farhad Fozouni
About this article I am facing problem in finding reliable sources as I have already used the available sources. Why aren't these sources reliable? The sources include the artist's personal website and a published book.Maryam.ronagh (talk) 14:55, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * We need sources that are independent of the subject; that rules out the artist's own website. For all I can tell the book is indeed a reliable source, but I have doubts about the use it is put to. Does that book really say that Fozouni gained international recognition through book features, or is it supposed to be an example of such a book feature? In the latter case, it doesn't really support the first statement it's cited for, and we'd do better to report what the book says about Fozouni than to report the book's existence. Unfortunately my local library does not carry it and I cannot tell how much it has to say about Fozouni.
 * I have doubts whether Behpoor is a reliable source; for all I can tell, the reviews are user-submitted (which would make it unreliable), but there might be some editorial oversight (which makes it more reliable), though not by a mainstream publishing house but apparently just by some guy with a website (which again makes it less reliable).
 * Some coverage in a daily newspaper, maybe a review of one of Fozouni's exhibitions with some background information, would go a long way to establish his notability. Right now, I cannot even tell how we know his birthdate, and his awards apparently haven't received any independent coverage either. Huon (talk) 16:24, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your help. This is exactly from that book: "Farhad Fozouni was born in Tehran, Iran in 1979 and holds a BA in fine arts and graphic designs. As a member of IGDS (Iranian Graphic Designers Society) he currently works as a freelance graphic designer for clients from the cultural field such as artists, galleries, and culture and music magazines. He has gained international recognition through various exhibitions and book features."
 * As far as I've found out I cannot copy and paste from a source. Is this true?
 * The existing coverages are all in Farsi and I don't know whether or not a translation can be used in Wikipedia.Maryam.ronagh (talk) 16:46, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * While we can quote short excerpts from sources ("According to art critic John Doe, Fozouni's style is 'distinctive and inspired'", for a very short example; see also WP:NFC), longer copying indeed may constitute a copyright violation, and we should paraphrase the information in our own words. While English sources are obviously preferable, non-English sources are also acceptable; WP:NOENG is the relevant guideline. Huon (talk) 17:00, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your help. So based on my limited source can I keep the article short? Just one or two paragraphs?Maryam.ronagh (talk) 17:55, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I see nothing wrong with a short article when it's well-sourced and clearly establishes the subject's notability. I found some coverage for the Chicago Poster Biennial in the Tehran Times, but unfortunately that report was written before the winners were announced - they mention Fozouni, they mention the award he's going to win, but not that he did win it. There are some other Tehran Times articles about Fozouni's exhibition in Denmark and his service on a poster jury in Tehran, but they don't really provide in-depth coverage - in both cases he's just one member of a group reported on. If we had some newspaper coverage of the actual awards, or maybe a Danish review of his works among the exhibition, that would be great, but unfortunately I found nothing of that kind. Huon (talk) 19:36, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Question about submission
My article Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/CytoVivawas rejected citing: This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. My question is: are the references i used not reliable, or do i need more references in some parts? I'm not sure which. We are trying to model our page after NanoSight, Ltd's page and do not seem to be very successful. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. CytoVivaInc (talk) 20:00, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Both. The entire "Technology overview" and "Products" sections don't have any references at all. The university CV is a primary source, the patent websites don't even mention CytoViva, and I doubt the research papers, while definitely reliable sources, cover the company in significant detail. To establish the company's notability, we need significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. I don't think any of your current sources even comes close to that standard.
 * Some additional comments: Firstly, other stuff exists - I haven't looked at the NanoSight article and it may well be in need of improvement or even deletion, but your article must stand on its own merits. Secondly, your username is probably in violation of our username policy. You may request a name change by following the instructions at Changing username, or you might just abandon this account and create a new one with a username that's within the policy's limits - Wikipedia accounts are for individual people, not for groups or companies, and the name should reflect that. Finally, you might want to have a look at our guideline on conflicts of interest - writing about your own company is discouraged. Huon (talk) 20:39, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

when will my article be published?
It is a biography of Opera SInger Sharon Azrieli (Perez)? Thanks Verdiana — Preceding unsigned comment added by Verdiana (talk • contribs) 20:03, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * There is a backlog of several hundred submissions; the oldest drafts awaiting review do so since July 10. It may take a few more days until it's your submission's turn. Please be patient.
 * I noticed that your references, with the exception of the Times of Israel, are either primary sources such as her managers' websites or her father's company website, or they provide only trivial coverage like the Canadian charity website which doesn't spend one sentence on Azrieli. To clearly establish Azrieli's notability, at least one additional secondary source which covers her in some detail will probably be necessary. Huon (talk) 20:39, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Lina Karam
hi!i am surprised!that you are not finding anough sources — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lina j karam (talk • contribs) 20:23, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * The sources given in the draft are all primary sources, but to establish Karam's notability we need significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, such as newspaper articles, maybe a review of her exhibition (not by the gallery itself - that would again be a primary source). Huon (talk) 20:39, 17 July 2012 (UTC)