Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2012 June 8

= June 8 =

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Guy Benveniste
What kind of references do you want? I am describing the published works of an academic and I am giving the works as references. Do you want reviews of the works? But those are not references, since I am mentioning and describing published works I am listing the works. Those should logically be the references.Nadialebon (talk) 00:17, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * We want secondary sources, sources not directly affiliated with the article topic. Benveniste's own published works are primary sources, and content should not be based on such sources. It should be possible to cite some of the scholarly articles discussing his work instead of his work itself. With any luck, we could even put Benveniste's work in relation to the rest of his field, as judged by other academics. Huon (talk) 00:55, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

OK, more secondary references can be given. But I thought giving you the secondary reference to 9 articles commenting on his work in an issue of the main journal in his field ( a journal called "Planning Theory" which I mention in my text) which is devoted to his works and highlights his importance to planning theory would be sufficient. Basically, he was one of the first writers describing the political dimensions of planning. I say so and I give you a major reference. I will add a few more.Nadialebon (talk) 18:15, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Those nine articles indeed look like a good source, but right now they are used rather indiscriminately. They are used as references for three statements, one of which is their own existence. For the other two statements I would have expected references to the specific paper which makes that point, not to the entire collection. Furthermore, the rest of that section is supported by primary sources only, as are major other parts of the article.
 * As an aside, you should probably use real footnotes. While that's technically only a style issue, I believe the last reviewer didn't recognize your inline references. Huon (talk) 12:40, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Review of User:TheoA/Threejs
There is a warning in the "Review waiting" box saying:

Warning: This page should probably be located at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Threejs (move).

Should I follow this instruction? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheoA (talk • contribs) 04:08, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, but the ArticlesForCreationBot already moved the page, and no further action on your part is necessary.
 * As an aside, that article's references need some work. Some of them are other Wikipedia articles, but Wikipedia does not consider itself a reliable source. Several others don't even mention three.js and do not support the statement they are used as references for, and still others are primary sources, not secondary sources. Huon (talk) 10:22, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Motley slough bridge
I do not understand the objections of the reviewer of my article. He says I need more references. I have a government document which was the application for historic location. I have a newspaper article that mentions the bridge. Is there something about the article that is controversial? If there is some particular fact that needs reinforcing, that would at least give me a direction to go.

Yipper (talk) 12:32, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The problem is that the bridge appears non-notable. To establish its notability, we have to show that significant coverage in reliable secondary sources exists. I don't think the form constitutes significant coverage, and the newspaper article does not even mention the bridge's name. Also, the form pretty much says it's an example of a very common type of bridge - what makes this one significant? Huon (talk) 12:51, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Being on the National Register of Historic Places is not notable enough? I was looking at the Wikipedia article about historic places in Mississippi.  I thought I could flesh out a little bit about this particular item.   Yipper (talk) 13:05, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * If the bridge is indeed on the National Register, it should be easy to find a reliable secondary source discussing it. None of the current sources say so. Maybe there are scholarly works specifically on the places on the National Register? Huon (talk) 16:13, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Are you saying you want a reference to confirm it is on the National Register? Yipper (talk) 16:55, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * That would be a good start. But what I really want (or more precisely: What the article needs) are reliable secondary sources discussing the bridge in some detail - more than a passing mention in an article on a decorated tree stump or some directory entry. For places on the National Register such sources should exist - but we have to find them. Huon (talk) 17:05, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I have added a reference to the online database lookup for the National Register. I will look for other information but I'm very skeptical that much exists. Yipper (talk) 18:00, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Symarip Pyramid
Hi,

How do I view my submissions rejection comments??

Symarip Pyramid Symarip Pyramid (talk) 13:09, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * It's at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Symarip Pyramid, just as the note posted to your talk page said. In short, the draft needs more reliable secondary sources to establish the band's notability. Huon (talk) 16:13, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Toni Newman
Transgender Author Toni Newman is already mentioned on Jacky Jasper's Page and Hollywoodstreetking page

Please create page for Toni D. Newman

thanks75.83.156.116 (talk) 14:59, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * As the reviewers noted, you should use inline citations and footnotes so our readers can easily verify which source supports which statement of the article. But I don't think the sources currently provided suffice to establish Newman's notability. Two are clearly primary sources, the book list does not seem reliable to me - there's no indication of authorship, of editorial oversight, or anything putting it beyond a random person's list of favorite books. Huon (talk) 16:13, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Toni Newman appeared on the cover of hip hop weekly and that was the biggest seller of the magazine in 2011 selling over million copies. Jacky Jasper of Diary of a Hollywood Street King broke the story with the National Enquiere Contract and she was interviewed over 40 times about the story and took 2 lie detector tests concerning the story. If this is not notable story you should take down the site. — — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.83.156.116 (talk) 13:56, 11 June 2012 (UTC)


 * If she's that notable, it should be easy to support the article's content by reliable secondary sources that cover her in detail. The cover story of Hip Hop Weekly may be one such source, but it's currently not even mentioned in the draft, and a search came up empty. Content should be based on reliable secondary sources; it's not enough to point out in some other place that they exist. Also, please use footnotes to clarify which source supports which part of the article. Huon (talk) 19:25, 11 June 2012 (UTC)-

Hip Hop Weekly Magazine featured rapper/actor LL Cool J and Transgender Author Toni Newman on the cover titled LL COOL GAY? The article was written by Journalist/Celebrity Blogger Jacky Jasper of Diaryofahollywoodstreetking.com and features celebrities LL Cool J, Eddie Murphy and NYC Hot 97 DJ Mister Cee and their involvement with Transgender Toni Newman while she was a street prostitute and homeless over a decado ago. Toni Newman in her book I Rise-The Transformation of Toni Newman discusses her transformation from male to female and her struggles in beginning her transformation with no support. Toni Newman is a 1985 graduate of Wake Forest University with BA degree and currently studying Law. Before beginning her transformation Toni was a male fitness model who appeared in fitness magazines, male calendars, Playgirl Magazine and was a member of the Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity.

—here are reliable sources with a copy of the four page national enquirer contract signed by Toni Newman Here is also cover of the June 22 Hip Hop Weekly Magazine written by Jacky Jasper of Diary of a Hollywood Street King 1)http://m.perezhilton.com/46153/show/71ac3f7a4f56e597ef429f9fc6bf5404&t=8108982ab51369886cf4a7cfae4d43c6 2)http://igossip.com/jacky-jasper-lands-hip-hop-weekly-cover 3)http://diaryofahollywoodstreetking.com/ll-cool-shuts-down-tranny-expose/ 4)http://www.bet.com/news/celebrities/2011/05/03/former-transgender-prostitute-released-tell-all-book-that-allegedly-outs-celebs.html 5)http://www.prlog.org/11615287-hip-hop-weekly-magazine-features-ll-cool-and-transgender-author-toni-newman-on-ll-cool-gay-cover.html 6)http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2011/05/did-ll-cool-j-pay-a-tranny-for-sex/


 * I believe I'm repeating myself, but you really should use inline citations via footnotes in your draft to clarify which part of the article is supported by which reference.
 * I'm not overly impressed by these six links. Most of them are clearly not reliable sources: Gossip, user-submitted or self-published content, a press release. The Hip Hop Weekly article itself may or may not be significant coverage in a reliable source; these links are not. Bet.com to me seems the best of them, but it doesn't say much about Newman. If the LL Cool J affair is the only thing she's notable for (and it appears that way), per WP:BLP1E we may be better off with a short mention in his article instead of a new article on her. Huon (talk) 18:34, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

The bet.com article talks about Newman and her book but the book has just been adapted into a film by Brit Film Director Keith Holland so lets wait till the film is done and maybe then you can create page about book turned into featured film. You can go to Jacky Jasper's page and create bigger mention on his page since he was the author of the Hip Hop Weekly article. “” — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.83.156.116 (talk) 01:58, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Book I Rise-The Transformation of Toni Newman turned into feature film Heart of a Woman Directed by British Film Director Keith Holland (below you will find the imdb.com approved link to the film-notable reliable source).1

1) “”http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2187119/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.83.156.116 (talk) 15:13, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Dr. Ariel Cohen
Hello, I was told that "The content of this submission includes material that meets Wikipedia's minimum standard for inline citations. Please cite your sources using footnotes. For instructions on how to do this, please see Referencing for beginners. Thank you." IM REALLY CONFUSED BY THIS. What IS missing? I think I cited everything. PLEASE HELP !!!! THANK YOU — Preceding unsigned comment added by TOMTOM2012 (talk • contribs) 16:16, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * That message refers to an old version of the article which did not yet have inline citations for major parts of its content. But there is another problem with the sources: They are almost all primary sources, articles written by Cohen or published by organizations he's affiliated with. To establish Cohen's notability we need reliable secondary sources, independent sources about Cohen or discussing his work. Furthermore, even the primary sources do not necessarily say what they are cited for. For example, the claim that Cohen warned of an upcoming war between Russian and Georgia has as its reference his EMET Advisory Board profile, which mentions no such warning. Huon (talk) 16:33, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

sir chris hoy
is there any chance that you guys could ever put a page of sir chris hoys timeline on wikipedia? because it is for a report that i have to do for school. if yous could put a page of it on here then that would make my day! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.241.238 (talk) 18:05, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * We do have an article on Sir Chris Hoy which gives a timeline of his career. But I'd also say that a Wikipedia article should not be an acceptable source for a school project, though some of the sources given in the article may themselves be acceptable. Huon (talk) 18:14, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Transactions on Combinatorics
Dear Sir/Madam, I was surprised by the reveiwer report (see the following); it is saying that "not adequately supported by reliable sources"; Why? You may easily check the hyperlink on "Transactions on Combinatorics". In the meanwhile, my submission is as the following one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archiv_der_Mathematik Please kindly reconsider this submission. Best Regards Alireza Abdollahi Editor-in-Chief Transactions on Combinatorics

The reviewer left the following comment about this submission: This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.158.176.161 (talk) 18:24, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * There are several issues here. First of all, as the journal's editor-in-chief, you are likely to have a conflict of interest, and it might be advisable not to write the article on the journal to edit yourself, but to wait until someone else does so. Secondly, the journal's own homepage is a primary source; in order to establish the journal's notability, we'd need significant coverage in reliable secondary sources. Since it's a very young journal with less than a single volume published, such sources may be hard to find; in such cases it's best to wait until they become available. Regarding Archiv der Mathematik: Other articles with insufficient sources may exist, but that's no reason to create more of them. Finally, the draft's text was copied verbatim from the journal homepage, a copyright violation. Therefore I have blanked it. While there are ways to use non-free content on Wikipedia (or to release the content under a free license, see Declaration of consent for all enquiries), those are usually only applied to images, and it would be easier to rewrite the article. Huon (talk) 18:46, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Disaster and Disabilities
There has been a mistake. The user that reviewed my article, Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Disaster and Disabilities, said that the topics discussed have already been written about; however, I am certain that they have not. What should I do? LStough (talk) 19:45, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * We already have articles on disasters and on disabilities. Especially the latter seems a good place for information on special problems faced by people with disabilities during disasters. I don't think we have an article specifically on the combination, but I don't think we need one. Furthermore, the "Schools and Disaster" section isn't about the combination anyway. As an aside, if you are L. M. Stough, the author of various of the articles referenced in that draft, you may want to have a look on our policy on conflicts of interest. Citing one's own work might be considered problematic. Huon (talk) 20:42, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * May I suggest that WP:WikiProject Disability might be a suitable venue to discuss the issues of this draft. Roger (talk) 16:11, 12 June 2012 (UTC)