Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2013 May 9

= May 9 =

Decline of Article User: Lisbonized
Hi there, I was wondering why my article was declined. The draft is Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/World neurofibromatosis day. I put a lot of work into it and had to learn your complicated method of compiling. I even added good sources. The observance is recognised around the world. Is there something I have omitted as I am new to this. Can you help me to tick all the necessary boxes?

Would appreciate this very much.

Lisbonized (talk) 15:36, 9 May 2013 (UTC)


 * This holiday doesn't appear to meet Wikipedia's standards of notability. The sources you give are all primary sources written by people directly involved in promoting the holiday (including the Grimsby Telegraph piece which speaks of "our event page"). To be considered notable, the holiday would have to be the subject of significant third-party coverage, such as newspaper articles about the observance. Besides, the claim that "Many people around the world show their support by wearing fancy dress" is rather absurd when nobody has shown their support yet and the source is a local newspaper. Will people outside Grimsby show their support? Outside Britain? Outside Europe? How many is "many"? I have my doubts. Huon (talk) 16:18, 9 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I received your email. What Huon said is pretty much what needed to be done.  Regarding this being the first celebration, I stand corrected.  I have updated the submission.  I did a fresh Google Books, Google News, and Google Scholar search for "World neurofibromatosis day" and "World neurofibromatosis awareness day" and based on that it's quite likely that this subject has not yet become notable by Wikipedia standards.  Even if this submission is turned down for lack of notability now, it is possible that the "non-promotional" press coverage in the weeks before and after this year's event will put it "over the top." If that doesn't happen this year, then it probably will in coming years as awareness increases and more reliable sources write about it in a non-trivial/non-promotional way.  As an "extreme" example of a very notable "disease awareness day," World AIDS Day has over 5000 hits in Google Scholar alone.  Even if many of those "5000+" are "partial matches" or duplicates, I expect there are hundreds of unique scholarly works about World AIDS Day.  The "bar for entry" to Wikipedia is of course much, much lower - you don't need any mentions in Google Scholar at all. You just need enough independent, non-trivial, non-promotional coverage from reliable sources to meet Wikipedia's relatively low notability standards. Memo to self:  World AIDS day has been tagged for cleanup due to a need for additional references. davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  16:53, 9 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi to both Huon and Davidwr. Still new to all of this so please bear with me and thank-you for taking the time to explain things. I don't think I have put enough references forward. I am not also sure of what constitutes appropriate/reliable sources. Huon has implied that World Neurofibromatosis Day is only recognized in the Grimsby Area but there are other sources I have used such as this one from New Straits Times. from Malaysia which is definitely outside Grimsby. I also checked the Wikipedia article Notability in the English Wikipedia it is very ambiguous as it uses terms such as "in general" etc. May I refer to articles that are deemed notable such as Abbotsbury Garland Day which would only have notability in Abottsbury (have been researching Wikipedia to help me reply and found out a lot of interesting trivia!) which has a population of 505 people or at most in the surrounding area and has a mention of one of the WP:DOY pages. Can I also reference World Day for Cultural Diversity for Dialogue and Development which has references at the foot of the article page which seem to promote it. I am also confused as to what constitutes "non-promotional" press coverage. Surely the press publishing an article on on something promotes it regardless of intent. For example Wikipedia has articles on sporting events and charity events before they occur and this isn't considered promoting them. Is it unfortunate that I have decided to write about an observance so close to its occurrence? I also checked this page Purpose which is basically to impart information around the world. I suppose the point I am trying to make is that if I saw I guy wearing a T-shirt which promoted a charity or had a music band unknown to me on it etc my first port of call is to read it on Wikipedia. It may be that I end up donating to a charity or buying a CD after reading a Wikipedia article even thouigh that is not the purpose. World Neurofibromatosis Day is not a charity though but an event. Is it worth me continuing the project. I have done a bit more research as you will probably see. many thanks for your time friends!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lisbonized (talk • contribs) 02:01, 10 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Abbotsbury Garland Day is discussed in a book published by Oxford University Press, for example - that's not just local coverage. The sources for the World Day for Cultural Diversity for Dialogue and Development indeed aren't great, but I expect better sources on a UN-sponsored holiday exist. But while other problematic articles may exist, that's no reason to create more - each submission must stand on its own merits. And while the New Straits Times piece does show that the holiday is known outside the UK, it provides no information. It's an opinion piece which doesn't mention the World neurofibromatosis day at all except in the headline. Do people in Kuala Lumpur also celebrate it by "wearing fancy dress"? I can't tell. The sources actually discussing the event are local interest pieces of the "Our neighbour Mrs. X takes part" type. Thus I don't think the holiday satisfies our notability guidelines which require significant coverage in reliable, independent sources. I may be wrong, though. Huon (talk) 03:01, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

"Reliable Sources"
What "reliable Sources" is the objector referring to in declining:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Liber_Brevior#References

I have listed:

1. a citation to the Library of Congress  2. PDF of the book which is the subject of the article  3. a citation to a book review of this book  4. another version of the book similar to a PDF http://en.gloria.tv/?media=387528

Thank you.

John D. Horton johndhorton@yahoo.com Colt, Arkansas USA — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.245.93.178 (talk) 17:38, 9 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia content should be based on reliable sources that are independent of the subject. The PDFs obviously aren't independent of the book. I doubt the LOC covers this book in any detail. And the review comes close to what we're looking for, but it's just a random blog on the internet without editorial oversight; it's not considered reliable by Wikipedia's standards. What we're looking for would be reviews published in newspapers or reputable magazines, or maybe peer-reviewed scholarly papers on theology discussing this book. Huon (talk) 20:11, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Thomas O&
Hello. I just tried to save and submit a new article and am unsure if it went through. Can you help me verify or finish? Thanks. Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Thomas O'Toole Cosmonaut61 (talk) 19:29, 9 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I've submitted the draft for you. However, most of the sources seem to be primary sources such as O'Toole's own writings or his employers. Wikipedia content should not be based on what O'Toole has written, but on what independent third parties have written about him. Huon (talk) 20:14, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi and thanks. I'm just trying to use the primary sources to establish "residency". That the person existed and worked as such. Not to put forward an interpretation. The problem with documenting news reporters as writers is that they go unnoticed as far as much commentary goes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cosmonaut61 (talk • contribs) 19:27, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Can I unsubmit an article for review?
Hello, I recently created and submitted for review the article Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Food Lovers Fat Loss System. In continuing my research, I came across lots of magazine articles on the program and want to update the article with this information. Is there a way to stop the review process so I can make the changes and then resubmit for review? Thanks! Normanocott (talk) 23:28, 9 May 2013 (UTC)


 * It might be best to just go ahead and add the information (see WP:REFB) while the draft is still waiting for review. On average, it will be a week before it gets reviewed anyway. If it gets reviewed and declined, just put at the top of the page to submit it again. (After dealing with whatever problems are listed!) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:39, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Review of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Lisa Stahl Sullivan
Hi Help Desk! I just created my first article. How do i create links within the article. I wrote about an actress I like and listed some of her credits. But how do I make the credits link to those movies?

And...how do I create a filmography for her?

thank you for your help! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stanleyeisen (talk • contribs) 23:29, 9 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Links to other Wikipedia articles are created with double square brackets: NYPD Blue will look like this: NYPD Blue. If for some reason you want the displayed text to differ from the title of the article linked to, you can use a "piped" link: For example, Ellen will look like this: Ellen. It links to the TV series article. See Help:Link for more information on links.
 * For the filmography I'd suggest either a table or just a list of bullet points. The easiest way for the table would probably be to take an article which already has one (say, Katharine Hepburn film and theatre credits), to copy and paste that code and then to modify the entries. The list of bullet points is much easier; an asterisk (*) at the beginning of a line will create a bullet point. Huon (talk) 01:21, 10 May 2013 (UTC)