Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2015 July 8

= July 8 =

08:59:17, 8 July 2015 review of submission by AbbyCollinsWilson
Our page has been reviewed, but not published. The reason for this is stated here: "This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources." We aren't sure why this has happened as we have included authentic links (all external). Can someone help us with why this has been declined? Or maybe need to change the links?

AbbyCollinsWilson (talk) 08:59, 8 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Is the humble help desk fielding a question from the sovereign, or when you use "we" and "our" are you saying that you are a public relations and communications firm that has Zeev Aram as a client? Worldbruce (talk) 10:32, 8 July 2015 (UTC)}}


 * Hello Abby. I have had a look at your draft. The subject is notable, but the draft in its current state is not acceptable. It reads like an advertisement for Aram Designs Ltd.—not an encyclopedic biography. You have only 2 links which are to sources independent of the subject. One of them to Building Design is behind a paywall, and I have no idea whether it explicitly verifies the claim:
 * "He introduced many new designers, such as Thomas Heatherwick and Jasper Morrison, who have gone on to become prolific figures in the design industry".
 * The other is to the The Guardian. All the rest are to other Wikipedia articles which verify nothing, or to Aram's own websites. You need several more like the Guardian article, and you need to format them properly as inline citations. Please read the pages that were linked in the reviewer's note which explain this
 * As Worldbruce noted above, you refer to "our" and "we". If you have any connection whatsoever, either personal or professional, with Zeev Aram or Aram Designs, then you need to read the WP:Conflict of interest for guidance when editing under those circumstances. One of the reasons why conflict of interest editing is strongly discouraged on Wikipedia is that it makes it very difficult to write a neutral objective article, and indeed to even see how promotional sentences like these are:
 * "is responsible for introducing to the London market some of the most important designers and designs over the last half a century"
 * "To accommodate Aram's growing business, the adjacent building at 110 Drury Lane was acquired and knocked through to 3 Kean Street to create the largest showroom for modern and contemporary furniture and lighting in London"
 * The article needs to be rewritten as neutral, factual, biography devoid of adjectives, and with all claims verified by independent sources. If not, it won't be accepted. Voceditenore (talk) 11:06, 8 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Update Abby, I have cleaned up the formatting on your draft and added several independent references, properly formatted so you have a model to follow. I've also cleaned up some of the puffery, but there's still a lot more to remove/copyedit. You also need to turn this into a biographical narrative—not simply a list of accomplishments and notable friends/colleagues. I may do further work on this later, when I get the chance.Voceditenore (talk) 12:47, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Request on 11:56:26, 8 July 2015 for assistance on AfC submission by Rahulgoswami95
Hello Sir, i am new to Wikipedia content writing and I want to create a Wiki page for my Town a famous religious place in North India. Later i will add some event and their description in this page. Please help me to accomplish this job.

Rahulgoswami95 (talk) 11:56, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ Worldbruce (talk) 11:58, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

12:44:25, 8 July 2015 review of submission by Runluke
Just wondering why the page has not been accepted, and what can be done to combat this.. Runluke (talk) 12:44, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Runluke, go to your draft. At the top is a big pink notice explaining why your draft was not accepted with links to the appropriate guidelines. Please read the notice, click on links, read the guidelines they link to—from beginning to end. Then, if you still have any questions, return here to the help desk. And while you're at it, if you have any connection whatsoever with this company or those who handle its public relations, please read Conflict of interest for guidance when editing under those circumstances. Voceditenore (talk) 15:58, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

15:50:53, 8 July 2015 review of submission by Kailaandhearts1
Kailaandhearts1 (talk) 15:50, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * What is your question, Kailaandhearts1? Voceditenore (talk) 16:02, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

21:39:15, 8 July 2015 review of submission by Etna805
Hello TeaHouse,

I'm hoping to get some clear direction about a page I'm attempting to submit for a therapeutic boarding school. I'd really find value in getting some consistent information about how the sources can be improved. Unfortunately I believe that the direction I've received from some of the editors who declined the submission has been vague and in some cases, directly conflicted with previous editors advice. The school is well-known within the therapeutic boarding school community and there are loads of reliable sources that prove it "exists" but would like to learn where this can be improved. Should I remove all self-referencing material and include an "external link" section instead?

Just to give more context around the conflicting guidance I'm getting so far, here's a reply from a talk page from one editor, "The BBB reference is something, but only notes location. The Seattle Times reference is a good one - keep at that!" So after some re-working of the article, and submission the next editor replied with this to say about the same reference, "The organization must have been written about in reliable sources such as newspapers, magazines, etc. References that do not mention the organization (e.g. the Seattle Times article) are not appropriate."

In this case, the article references the founders and puts context primary reason for the creation of the school in the first place, which would seem to be an appropriate reference.

Thanks in advance for the input everyone.

Etna805 (talk) 21:39, 8 July 2015 (UTC) Etna805 (talk) 21:39, 8 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I can see how that could be confusing. Everything you've been told is true, but reviewers have focused on different aspects without making that clear. Here's another perspective on the draft and how to move forward:


 * On one hand, the guidelines clearly state that high schools must satisfy the notability criteria, and the draft doesn't demonstrate notability. On the other hand, if independent sources confirm they exist, degree granting high schools are routinely kept as the result of Articles for Deletion discussions, and the overarching principle here at Articles for Creation is to accept drafts that are likely to survive AfD. I wouldn't have declined the draft on the grounds of notability, but I would have either declined it as being too much like an advertisement or (if I couldn't locate better sources) dramatically slashed the content before accepting it.


 * Articles are supposed to be based primarily on independent, reliable, secondary sources about the subject. The draft only cites one such source, NIPSA. One can't build much of an article on that. Sources that are not reliable (Bert Sperling's Best Places and myVisaJobs) should not be used at all, but the remaining sources could be used sparingly to fill in uncontroversial details and provide context.


 * I'll help you try to find better sources, but if no one has written a book, scholarly journal paper, TV documentary, or magazine or newspaper article about the organization - a work that goes far beyond proving it exists and that has undergone the scrutiny of peers and editors before publication - then be prepared to gut the draft to get it approved, or perhaps, if TWAI is a significant employer or significant school in the area, change tack and mention TWAI in a sentence of a new Economy or Education section in the Troy, Montana article. If you do the latter, be sure to cover the other employers or schools of equal or greater significance in the area so that you don't give TWAI undue weight.


 * Notes


 * P.S. This is actually the Articles for Creation Help Desk, not the Teahouse, but this is a good place to ask your question, and hopefully this answer helps. Worldbruce (talk) 01:52, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

22:59:40, 8 July 2015 review of submission by Notablearmenians
Ruben Hakobyan is actually a very famous Armenian singer, specialized in ethnographic, national, and patriotic folk songs. He is renowned both in Armenian and in other countries. It would be unfail to delete his profile. I don't really understand why would you suggest the page for deletion. Please give me more details to make corrections, and to avoid deletion. This is the first time I am writing an article, and it would be extremely disappointing for me in case this page is deleted. Thank you anyways.

Notablearmenians (talk) 22:59, 8 July 2015 (UTC)


 * This is being discussed at Articles for deletion/Ruben Hakobyan (Ruben Sasuntsi) ... it would be better for you to discuss, on that page, the published independent reliable sources that cover Hakobyan in detail. Arthur goes shopping (talk) 10:31, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Request on 23:40:23, 8 July 2015 for assistance on AfC submission by Notablearmenians
I made corrections in the following page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruben_Hakobyan_(Ruben_Sasuntsi)#Publications Please remove the article as being suggested for deletion. I am sorry for any inconvenience: this is actually my first Wikipedia article. Thank you in advance.

Notablearmenians (talk) 23:40, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * This page is for questions about the Articles for creation process. Had you followed through with the draft you started, Draft:Ruben Hakobyan (Ruben Sasuntsi), instead of creating Ruben Hakobyan (Ruben Sasuntsi) directly, you probably could have avoided a deletion nomination. Now it is out of our hands. At articles for deletion you can read about how to participate in the article's deletion discussion. The best way to avoid deletion is to improve the article by adding full citations to multiple, indepenent, reliable, secondary sources. Worldbruce (talk) 02:20, 9 July 2015 (UTC)