Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2018 May 28

= May 28 =

02:43:45, 28 May 2018 review of submission by Soniaang
I think I resolved the issues and found a lot of noteworthy references alluding to my father from well known government instituions in the Philippines, SO PLEASE SEE THE RESUBMITTED update. Its justfrustrating because after all the research done, the references I failed to give appropriate ones and my father was a historian wth so many awards  who archives everything.
 * - Replying to all three of your above posts. There are quite a lot of issues with the draft, including the fact that you're trying to write about your father. That's not a good idea as you will struggle to be objective, and we write articles from a Neutral point of view. What you've drafted is closer to a tribute. You've also created two identical drafts, which doesn't help. What sourcing there is, you haven't put inline, so the reader can't see what the sources are supposed to support. And you've put in long lists of minor works which aren't necessary. It really would be better to let someone unconnected write the article. KJP1 (talk) 05:58, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

07:29:24, 28 May 2018 review of submission by 173.71.120.207
Dear Robert Mc Lenon - what are articles of Notability? I compared these to other people who are in Wikipedia? Can you help me please because my father was a famous Filipino and many others are in Wikipedia and FALL SHORT of his accomplishemnts

Also MAY I address User KJ1 : This is a COPY FROM WIKIPLIPINAS. We had A WIKI FILIPINAS  in the COUNTRY so i did not just invent this WIKIFILIPINAS GOT DEFUNCT RECENTLY .. These were all his accomplishments STATED that they put together IN WIKIFILIPINAS and i just TRANSFERRED  and you can see his list of awards -

Now WHAT DOES INLINE mean and ARTICLES OF NOTABILITY?

PLEASE HELP, I AM FRUSTRATED AFTER 2 ATTEMPTS  --- WHAT KIND OF REFERENCES and INLINE DO YOU NEED? I GAVE A LOT ALREADY????

I AM THE ONLY NE WHO CAN DO THIS AS I OWE IT TO MY FATHER !!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soniaang (talk • contribs) 07:35, 28 May 2018 (UTC) 173.71.120.207 (talk) 07:29, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Please don't be rude as these people are only trying to help you. If you followed the Wikipedia guidelines you wouldn't be in this mess. I've been following this whole thing.  YOU haven't bothered to listen to anyone's suggestions. YOU are refusing to follow Wikipedia's guidelines. Please speak to the people here with respect.

Uncoveringcelebrityhistory (talk) 08:39, 28 May 2018 (UTC)


 * - I’m afraid shouting like this shows why you aren’t best placed to write a neutral article. KJP1 (talk) 07:45, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

07:34:58, 28 May 2018 review of submission by Uncoveringcelebrityhistory
I would like some help since I was told that my article was like an advert. I'm not sure where that is coming from. Could someone please edit that for me? Uncoveringcelebrityhistory (talk) 07:34, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * - Well, how about "the company quickly rose to become one of the most sought after collectable doll companies in the world"? This is sourced to the company's own site. So it's promotional and the source isn't independent. And it's not the only example. Then, there's the long product list. That's why the reviewer declined it as advertising. KJP1 (talk) 08:01, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello, OK. I will remove that comment. Can you tell me what else is there for me to fix up? I would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks Uncoveringcelebrityhistory (talk) 08:33, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Request on 07:57:17, 28 May 2018 for assistance on AfC submission by Soniaang
To Mr Robert McLenon and other reviewers

I looked at someone a co Filipino whose daughter is my Collegue in school --- Her Mother made it to Wikipedia and was a radio announcer Dely magpayo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiya_Dely

What is different about her References and Notability ? My father has the excact same type of references and even more works established??? if you see his publications and how people have revered here in the country?

Do you want only 4 of these? CAN YOU HELP PLEASE GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF ESTABILISHIBG NOTABILITY, I READ THORUGH THE LINK AND THIS IS TEH SECOND TIME THIS GOT REJECTED. Anotehr is what is INLINE

I am the only one who can do this, no one else can be hired to do this .. WE don't have money to hire people as KJ2 user mentioned -- hire someone elase ___ ??? What ???

For EXAMPLE TIHS IS A SECONDARY SOURCE --- WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS?

Serafin D Quiason a Scholar and Man of Integrity http://muntingnayon.com/page/104899/index.php

What is an INLINE as well? HOW IS THAT DONE?

Soniaang (talk) 07:57, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * See Citing sources the idea is that you write the text like this:, which will render: your text here  more text. However, writing an article is challenging so I would personally encourage you to spend some time editing here to get more experience. L293D (☎ • ✎) 12:39, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

09:47:18, 28 May 2018 review of submission by Uncoveringcelebrityhistory
Can someone please edit my draft to help me fix up my issues that have arised?

Uncoveringcelebrityhistory (talk) 09:47, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

10:00:45, 28 May 2018 review of submission by Soniaang
RObert MC Lenon and ALL REVIEWERS
 * Is it the way i have written the bibliography References? Theses are Notable Sources NEWS PAPERS used in the Philippines The Philippine Star NEWS is the #1 circulation in the country - and MUntingnayon MAGAZINE which had broad coverage? ?

I cannot believe these are not good primary and secondary sources?

For Example Here are FRESH ARTICLES I GOT from the Internet that i have not placed in the references that i tuped up .. I can give you more -- BUT YOU KEEP REJECTING !! I AM ALREADY AT A LOSS WHAT IS NOTABLE SOURCES!! THESE ARE NEWS PAPER ARTICLES and PUBLISHED WITH THE#1 CRICULATION IN THE COUNTRY

The Philippine Star ( News Paper), May 29, 2010 Rosalind Orosa,  Rony Diaz writes a novel / Serafin Quiason presents a model for our leaders https://www.philstar.com/opinion/2010/05/29/579104/rony-diaz-writes-novel-serafin-quiason-presents-model-our-leaders\

The Philippine Star, Sept 4, 2016 , Cavite historian pay Tribute to Serafin D quiason ( this is a noteworthy News paper #1  circulation in the Philippines??!  SO What’s wrong with this? ) https://www.pressreader.com/philippines/the-philippine-star/20160904/283064118786217 We have Manila Times and Philippine Star.. are these not notable sources?

AND SPECIALLY THIS ! A REAL GOOD ARCTICLE ABOUT MY DAD : This is from MUTINGNAYON MAGAZINE in the Philippines ,whose  circulation for 29 years  of service ?? Why is this not a worthy source ? Is it because he way i presented it and failed to annpotate it properly? that makes it an UN- NOTABLE SOURCE?? IT DOES SAY 29 YEARS F SERVICES SO THAT IS VERY BROAD COVERAGE ???? and it is a # 1 MAGAZINE In the COUNTRY for Historical issues !!!!!!
 * Serafin D Quiason a Scholar and Man of Integrity http://muntingnayon.com/page/104899/index.php

National Historical Commision of the Philippines, THIS IS A a gov't agency website? what is wrong with this http://nhcp.gov.ph/?s=serafin+D+quiason

Philippine Starr: Federalism is about Freedom : Secondary source and a citation of Serafin D quiason March 30, 2014 Carmenb Pedrosa https://www.philstar.com/opinion/2014/03/30/1306728/federalism-about-freedom

LASTLY MR. Robert MC Lennon, YOU mentiones the LIST OF REFERENES  VERY LONG : I AM JUST COMPARING IT TO a Protegee of my father name is AMbeth Ocampo. My dad was his mentor. Here is his WIKIPEDIA .. my dad deserves Wikipedia just a good if not better than this person https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambeth_Ocampo

I CAHLLENGE YOU WHY WAS THIS WIKI of AMBETH OCAMPO ACCEPTED and his references are just as good? MY DAD HAD A WILIPEDIA BUT IN WIKIFILIPINAS AND ALL I DID WAS TRANDFER THE CONTENTS

Soniaang (talk) 10:00, 28 May 2018 (UTC)


 * please calm down. You have been unbelievably rude to everyone here who is trying to help you.

You can't just list your references at the end. You have to show where they have been used. Like this right after the place it connects to. Make sure to remove the spaces in 'ref' That is very important. There are a huge amounts of issues wrong with your page but that's what jumps out at me. Uncoveringcelebrityhistory (talk) 10:18, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

10:57:38, 28 May 2018 review of submission by Soniaang
Hello, I have a question. I wont stop until this gets Accepted so please help ME SO I DO NOT WASTE ANYNORE TIME!

THERE IS NOTHING SUBJECTIVE HERE because these are nothing but facts! as you can see its is all enumerations! SO whoever commented someone else should do it in the previous notes is insane because we have to pay the person and he or she does not know my father as well as I do!??!

Again I am looking at several peoples references and Wikipedias and i cannot understand why those are accepted -

SO here are 2 people who i know personally one is dead and the other is alive and was the protégée of my father

HELP ME understand what is in their articles or the way they wrote the reference s

By the way i am not a professional bibliographer so help me Please by SHOWING ME AN EXAMPLE OF A NOTABLE RESOURCE TO ME THE REFEBRECES HERE ARE SJUST AS GOOD!!!

I AM REALLY frustrated at this point!!!

Tiya DEly Ambeth Ocampo

Soniaang (talk) 10:57, 28 May 2018 (UTC) I HAVE READ THE NOTABLE RESOURCE REFERENCE LINK YOU HAVE AND I CANNOT DECIPHER WHY MY SOURCES which NOW I DOCUMENTED AND ADDED MORE INFORMATION

MY REQUEST IS THIS :

PLEASE SHOW ME AN EXAMPLE OF A NOTABLE REFERENCE PLEASE > I AM VERY FRSUTRATED NOW ,,

THIS IS MY FATHER AND HE HAS A LONG LEGACY HE IS LEAVING BEHIND FOR TEH COUNTRY!

Soniaang (talk) 11:04, 28 May 2018 (UTC)


 * You should not be writing an article on your father. I don't want to sound harsh but it is almost impossible for you to be objective. We are all volunteers. We don't have any desire to promote your father's legacy. I suggest you seek WP:ALTERNATIVEOUTLETS Legacypac (talk) 12:24, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

10:58:47, 28 May 2018 review of submission by Kilimanoormadhu
Last one month i am trying to publish this article and also made several changes but this has been rejected all the time.. I won't get what is the problem. Please help.. Thank you.. Kilimanoormadhu (talk) 10:58, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Your WP:AUTOBIO is very promotional and lacks proper sources. We have told you this ith 5 or 6 rejections. I've sought deletion as this is wasting everyone's time. You can't use Wikipedia to promote yourself. Legacypac (talk) 12:19, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

13:23:42, 28 May 2018 review of submission by Soniaang
Soniaang (talk) 13:23, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

NOte : The caps below here are meant to emphasize not shout

First of all, I am not yelling at you , I am using CAPS to emphasize some points, I have no idea how to BOLDEN or UNDERLINE the sentence to emphasize my points. if you think i am shouting  === Why would i yell? You cant hear me while i am typing?

I am a busy professional and am a consultant, my time is precious by the minute. and i cant hire people as well to do this. They will cost me $$$$ so whoever said i should hire  someone else give me money please so i can hire someone to do this???

May i also criticize the way you answer because it is not clear what is wrong you keep a alluding to not notable source -- it LENDS to the frustration. if you say i was not listening - That is not the case --I had been comparing and investigating. NO one until this last point did someone explicitly tell me HOW TO DO AN INLINE and HOW TO DO a NOTABLE Ref. If there was a URL here or documentation please show as i am in a hurry to finish this. I have deadlines to do as well aside from this.! He explicitly showed me .. i cant recall who the USER was but that was a good one.

By the way, only 1 person  and i congratulate that person from  everyone else  did answer me quite Clearly and i did look that up. the rest of you were very Vague in your replies and even Critical - yes someone said we have no desire to promote your father's legacy -- what does that have to do with this? That COMMENT WAS ALSO IS OUT OF HAND by the way.

Your job is to help us be able to find out what is wrong and help us.

So anyway i will keep doing this .. No one else can and keep doing it until this gets accepted!
 * User:TonyBallioni please look at this post and the ones above it by the same user. This person has an agenda incompatible with how Wikipedia works and they promise to keep being disruptive. Legacypac (talk) 14:48, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * , please be patient here and work with members of the AfC review team. You may mean well, but this is a volunteer project that has no deadline. Fix the issues they identified, and resubmit. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:01, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

13:26:53, 28 May 2018 review of submission by Soniaang
Soniaang (talk) 13:26, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Excuse me but if you read my previous emails these were all PLEADING FOR HELP === so how can i be shouting at you ? I need a way to empathize points i don't get --- only 1 person among all of you got it and explained!

14:17:32, 28 May 2018 review of submission by Andreas Juette
Andreas Juette 14:17, 28 May 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andreas Juette (talk • contribs)

14:18:52, 28 May 2018 review of submission by Apricotnectar
Is it acceptable to move the templates, such as Template:AFC_Submission, Template:AFC_Comment et al to the bottom of a draft as it's being worked on and revised; does this present any trouble to the reviewers? Apricotnectar (talk) 14:18, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Apricotnectar (talk) 14:18, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It's fine as long as the AfC pending template stays on the face. Even better move them to the Draft talkpage. Legacypac (talk) 16:20, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

16:46:49, 28 May 2018 review of submission by Soniaang
May I explain that I think I now  have a better understanding and just to make sure I got this right - I am not a bibliographer and never wrote books or wrote literature, essays text etc. - my profession is in engineering  very  far from my dads. This is my first time in Wikipedia. I do notice and it is my understanding that what you need are appropriate **Footnotes** which you call References, and these are properly tagged from the content to appear in the reference section. I never knew this. There are Imbedded URLS as well in many of the paragraphs. Also you will need an Appropriate SYNTAX for this  footnoting if you guys explained that my footnoting syntax was bad and needs  appropriate syntax I would not be confused. because notable source to me means totally a different thing.

I will AGREE TO remove Wikipedia and You tube references  --- Does this go as well with Facebook, a gov't Facebook page? I am not going against what you need--- its just I do not understand what the  criteria's are explicitly  because MY INTERPRETATION OF  a notable source to me means something else AND THE WAY I INTERPRET the wiki documentation was different.

I just copied verbatim what was in Wikifilipinas which had been online for 6 years till it got defunct in Dec  2017. My fathers article had been online so I had a perplexed reaction   with the article when it got rejected. I did not write the article.

PLEASE give me a couple days to properly tag all these and footnote it and imbed URLS in the main content which was not in the original Wiki document.

Thank you Sonia Ang

Soniaang (talk) 16:46, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * - What's interesting is that you've no insight at all into how bad your behaviour has been, or the light it's shone onto your personality. Happy editing. KJP1 (talk) 20:20, 28 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Hello Greetings to you (Magandang hapon po). This will be a long message, so take your time to read it and re-read it if you have to as here is a lot of information for your to digest and I believe all/most of your questions are answered.

General info

 * First of all, we the Wikipedians/editors are volunteers, so please be patient as editors would respond only in their free time. Being civil is the code of conduct in Wikipedia. Instead of using high cap (means shouting in internet language) to emphases your intent/message you might want to choose "quotation marks" or 'apostrophe' or bold the texts, and using words such as " I challenge you" might come across a little to strong.
 * When you see any highlighted blue text in Wikipedia, please click on it as it will bring you to the page where you could find details information of that particular subject.
 * You dont need to create a new discussion section (either reply or new message) every single time. It is best to contain all the messages under one topic. What you have to do is to click "edit source" next to this message title "6.13 16:46:49, 28 May 2018 review of submission by Soniaang" and add an extra " : " and start writing.
 * You have 6 months to submit your article, so take your time.

COI

 * conflict of interest (COI) - COI means any any person, who is affiliated to the subject of a Wikipedia page (family members, friends, client, employers, yourself and etc), involves in contribution of the page. If a person is paid to write about a subject, that is a financial conflict of interest.  COI is strongly discourage on Wikipedia as COI editors would/might not able/aware to write the article in a neutral point of view. For COI, editor need to disclose your COI when involved with the effected article, here is your article of your father  - Draft:Serafin D. Quiason. COI discloses need to be made on user page (your user page), article talk page (Draft:Serafin D. Quiason talk page) and /or on edit summary of an edit you made.  You could find how to disclose COI here. You could also place  on the article talk page and state your suggestion.

Notability, inline citation, instructions and examples

 * Content added/edited in Wikipedia needs "inline citation" from independent "third party" reliable source (in any language) for verification to gauge the nobility criteria is met. The articles's inline citation is the WP:BURDEN which it is on the person adding the information. Please note official website, records of sport events or individual player records  are consider primary source and not independent source, and social network source such as facebook, twitter, instagram, imbd and etc are considered NOT reliable source and can not be used for citing.  ::Independent reliable sources are those obtain from major newspaper, such as The Guardian, Sydney Morning Herald, CNN news and etc. or source obtain from major publisher of the work (for example, Random House or Cambridge University Press).  (Note: Wikipedia  can NOT be the source - see WP:CIRCULAR and please dd the inline citations at the end of the sentences in the body texts).


 * citing from internet source - see WP:CITEWEB and its template -see Template: cite web
 * Instructions: Citing source from web - Do not copy and past the URL address and paste into the body text, but click "cite" on menu page and fill in the fields as per the Template: cite web and save when it is done).
 * Examples below:


 * To add an in-line text citation for an internet reference:  
 * To add an in-line text citation for a paper reference:   
 * (note: remove nowiki tag when input the citation. Fill the info and change the date as needed. See on source edit view mode.)

Summary

 * The golden rule is "Articles generally require significant coverage (multiple sources) in reliable sources (secondary sources)that are '''independent
 * (Please visit Your first article on Things to avoid and And be careful about.. and Are you closely connected to the article topic?.
 * Wikipedia strongly discourage editor to edit/add content/create on an affected article which you have associated/affiliated of.You could provide the source and request willing/interested editor to write the article for you by placing request edit on the article talk page.


 * Check out historianThomas Babington Macaulay or Krste Misirkov page on how they are written. Please do what is required, prior resubmit your article. Have a good day.  CASSIOPEIA(talk) 13:32, 29 May 2018 (UTC)


 * To CASSIOPEIA. ( I found out how to Bold now )  Thank you very much ( Salamat Po !)  I really am very grateful for the  detailed explanation.  When I got those comments I was not   qualified  to write I was in shock   since we do not know the rules, so  if someone says you are not qualified to write but need a  neutral source it becomes quite an emotionally charged  thing  because of the relationship  so unless  the documented policy statement of  Wikipedia was referenced and explained better,  then I would not be in  Panic or  in disbelief .  All what I typed  came from a former Wiki-Filipinas Article without my adding anything.


 * On the topic of reliable sources, I can see that  country news papers  are reliable sources. There was a statement there about non-user generated articles in You Tube and Facebook is acceptable --- what does that mean please? I have a Facebook reference from the NHCP of my dad.


 * By the way I do want to remove the duplicate article - that happened because of an error and I put it under some category that is why there was a duplicate  - how do I delete it ? I did put a deletion tag but it was rejected to be deleted.
 * TY,
 * Sonia Ang — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soniaang (talk • contribs) 07:16, 30 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi, Greetings to you. It is good to know you learn how to bold to emphases your message - well done. Before I answer your questions, pls remember to ping the editor to whom your message is intended for. For example, if you want to send message to me, pls insert  before you start writing the message, so I will receive a notification that I have a message from you.  You need to ping the editor in all talk pages, except if you write the message in the editor talk page (if you write a message in my talk page and the message is for me, then you dont need to ping me; however, if you send me a message in my talk page and also include other editors, you need to ping them).
 * Secondly, pls sign off after you have finished your message by inserting   at the end. Pls visit Help:Wikitext/wikicode which would help you on editing Wikipedia, such as you would know how to indent text, list/number a list, wikilink, insert current date and etc.)
 * User generated content - Info from You tube, Linkedin, Facebook, IMBD and etc are user generated content where by the content is provided by the user themselves - For example, information from Linkedlin, the resumes and posts are  written/provided by the user themselves. In that aspect, we have no way to verify if the information is reliable, as the user could write anything they deem fit, for such it is not considered reliable or independent source and can not be used as a source in Wikipedia.
 * Delete page by creator - First blank the page (delete everything) and insert and before saving the page, please put "creator would like to delete the page" on the edit summary.
 * not qualify - when editor commented "not qualify to write", they meant you have COI with the subject (your father) where by you would/might not be in the position to write the articlein a neutral point of view or objectively such as you might use WP:PEACOCK terms to puff up the subject or to include "unsourced content". They comment of the editors meant NO harm but to help and provide advice.
 * Let me know if anything else I can help. Thank you (Selamat po).  CASSIOPEIA(talk) 11:15, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi Cassiopeia, I had been collecting a lot of references the past few days before finally editing this one by one. I do have a question. this is such a lovely magazine and is the official News Letter of the National Commission for Culture and the Arts and does have all the main facts about my father.

The thing is that if you click it online you will need to turn its pages and use the ZOOM lens ( the a magnifying glass icon in the view) to zoom an read  the page of my Dad. This actual magazine is very thick glossy hand high quality as you can see it past editions. There is no other online version of the News Magazine.

Please tell me if this is will be Accepted ?

Serafin D. Quiason, Scholar, Administrator and Historian, Volume XIX Number 5 September-October 2016 For Arts and Cultural Workers ISSN 0119-5948 https://issuu.com/ncca0/docs/agung_no_5_2016/35   this is the link to this, note use Sliding bar icon to zoom  the text of page it becomes  very clear not, sorry not the magnifying glass

Another one is this :The National Historical Commission Face book page : Unveiling of Bust of Serafin D Quiason and Renaming of the NHCP Resource Center https://www.facebook.com/pages/National-Historical-Commission-of-the-Philippines/138761729481531

AND another :https://www.facebook.com/notes/national-historical-commission-of-the-philippines/dr-serafin-d-quiason-in-memoriam/1268848969806626