Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2020 December 14

= December 14 =

08:05:54, 14 December 2020 review of submission by United World President
United World President (talk) 08:05, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

08:36:07, 14 December 2020 review of submission by Textor Alector
Textor Alector (talk) 08:36, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

08:46:21, 14 December 2020 review of submission by Textor Alector
The article has been revised taking editors previous comments into consideration - notability firmly established as beyond plausible - independent verifiable sources added under external links - promotional tone/'pride' mitigated

Textor Alector (talk) 08:46, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

11:51:17, 14 December 2020 review of submission by 92.16.85.200
92.16.85.200 (talk) 11:51, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi - I need some guidance on what I need to do to meet WP:NARTIST. for the article I wrote about rory dobner. He's an accompished British Artist - I just dont know what you need to prove that. Can someone please help and provide guidance?


 * Have you opened the link at WP:NARTIST? It is quite clear about what you need to prove to show that he is notable. If there is something there you don't understand, you can let us know and we'll help. I should mention that you need each of the claims in your submission to be cited as well. Without that, it will be declined again, even if you can prove notability. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 12:20, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

12:00:09, 14 December 2020 review of draft by Francesco Bianchi 24
I couldn't understand if my draft was actually submitted for review before publication or not

Francesco Bianchi 24 (talk) 12:00, 14 December 2020 (UTC)


 * It has not been submitted yet. But I should advise you that it will not pass review because it reads like an advertisement and does not cross the notability threshold for companies. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 12:48, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

13:53:22, 14 December 2020 review of submission by CesareBrizio
Is there a way to resubmit a draft, and get a "second opinion" about it by someone else than the first reviewer? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CesareBrizio (talk • contribs) 15:23, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

I recently submitted the draft of an article about the legendary test pilot Edwin Foresman Schoch.

The submission was declined, and I can't understand why Wikipedia includes articles about test pilots such as J. F. Coleman, made of a few lines and just three references cited, while my fully developed draft with 28 references cited is declined.

The article is thoroughly researched and covers:
 * his early life
 * his career in the Navy
 * his feats (he deserved three medals) in the Second World War, when he flew the Hellcat and the Corsair
 * his career as test pilot
 * his death on a McDonnell F2H Banshee on the day of his 35th birthday.

His professional career is covered by citing all the most relevant planes he flew, including:


 * - The FH Phantom
 * - The FH2 Banshee (where he found his death)
 * - The FJ-1 Fury
 * - The XF-88 Voodoo

Considering that most literature about Ed Schoch is related with his role as chief test pilot for the McDonnell XF-85 Goblin, a little more information - and several more references, 9 out of 28 - are provided about the Goblin than about the other models of airplane that Ed Schoch flew.

Considering that Ed Schoch died at just 35 years of age, his career wasn't long - but it's outstanding regardless of its duration! And surely war heroes and test pilots who died in their prime are as deserving as long-lived legends, despite their biographies being shorter.

Today, the much respected reviewer DGG rejected my draft, alleging that I should better append the article into the page about the XF-85 Goblin.

I respectfully dissent. Both the reason for declining my submission, and the kind suggestion by DGG to attach the draft content into the Wikipedia page about the McDonnell XF-85 Goblin, are unacceptable.

Most of my article cannot fit into the XF-85 page. As an example:
 * - all the biographical data and the military career of Ed Schoch are out of place in the XF-85 page
 * - there is no reason why I should cite the FH-Phantom, the FH2 Banshee, the XF-88 Voodoo or the FJ-1 Fury on the Wikipedia page about the XF-85
 * - it would be inappropriate for me to add a "military person infobox" and a wikitable with decorations to the Wikipedia page about the XF-85
 * - it would be impossible for me to cite on the page about XF-85 Goblin 19 references that are unrelated with the Goblin but related with Edwin Foresman Schoch

Furthermore, Wikipedia notability guidelines are definitely met by Ed Schoch, the subject of my draft:


 * About "Military History Notability Guideline": Criteria include having deserved the highest or the second highest military honor or multiple instances of the Navy Cross. However, the same guideline says: «It is important to note that a person who does not meet the criteria mentioned above is not necessarily non-notable; ultimately, this determination must be made based on the availability of significant coverage in independent, secondary sources.» There is no doubt that such a coverage is available, suffice to google for "Edwin Schoch" "Test Pilot": the SERP returns more than 200 results.


 * About "General Notability Guideline": «If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list» - of my 28 references, 19 are unrelated with the XF-85 Goblin and are relative to other feats of Ed Schoch's career as a Navy pilot or as a test pilot.


 * About "Additional Criteria": «The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor» - and Ed Schoch received three significant military honors. Even though his military career alone may not suffice to grant his relevance as a military person, those honors add to his civilian fame as one of the most skilled test pilots ever.


 * About "people notable for only one event": Even though Ed Schoch is particularly well noted for his role as test pilot of one of the weirdest aircraft ever, the XF-85 - he is also reknowned for his military career, and for his role in the testing of other early jets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CesareBrizio (talk • contribs) 16:00, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

For all those reasons, I can't agree with DGG's opinion, and I respectfully ask to have my draft reviewed by someone else.

Is there a way for me to resubmit my draft for revision by a reviewer different from DGG??

Many thanks for your advice! CesareBrizio (talk) 13:53, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * You say you respect DGG but don't want them reviewing your draft. So you respect them until they decline your draft? What makes you think someone else will give you a more favorable opinion?  331dot (talk) 11:44, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

@331dot Thank you for your answer. I may respect anybody, yet I reserve the right to disagree from people that I respect fully. One may agree with persons that he does not respect, and vice versa. I accessed the Live Help IRC and was advised to resubmit the draft to a different reviewer, but I don't know how to do it. My disagreement stems from the fact that shorter drafts (down to a few lines) about less noted test pilots, accompanied by as few as three or four citation of third party sources were deemed acceptable and became Wikipedia articles, while my quite exhaustive draft including 28 different 3rd party citations about one of the most noted test pilots ever was rejected with the proposal to merge it into another wikipedia page. CesareBrizio (talk) 15:16, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Each draft is judged on its own merits; see other stuff exists. It could be that those other articles should be treated similarly as your draft and we just haven't gotten around to it yet. I don't know if DGG is correct or not, but they gave you a path to getting what you wrote into the encyclopedia and if I were you I would take it in the interim, while continuing to argue it should be a standalone article. However, you can also resubmit it and ask on the talk page for other eyes on it, although if you do that too much it will be viewed as forum shopping. 331dot (talk) 15:51, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

@331dot Again thank you for your helpful comments. I will take a few days and then decide whether to take the suggested line of action (and merge my page in the XF-85 page) or take the hazards of a resubmission. Thanks for pointing me at the «forum shopping» issue - I didn't even know the term... I'm still in the process of understanding whether a draft being declined is sort of an unappealable verdict, or something that can be legally worked around (pardon my bad English) without looking too bold. By the way, Ed Schoch is a subject that I have been researching since 1978. Best, CesareBrizio (talk) 17:07, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

15:34:26, 14 December 2020 review of draft by Tsertsanova
Tsertsanova (talk) 15:34, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * You don't ask a question. 331dot (talk) 15:36, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

15:47:50, 14 December 2020 review of submission by Sameer2004
Sameer2004 (talk) 15:47, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * You don't ask a question, but your draft was rejected, meaning it will not be considered further. 331dot (talk) 15:49, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Request on 17:11:53, 14 December 2020 for assistance on AfC submission by Dan.ferratti
I need assistance in drafting Cesar Marolla biography. It feels there's too much info and vital information get lost in the draft to make it a biography. Also I input (and others) too many photos. Is it relevant? Any good examples can be much appreciated. Thank you!

Dan.

This is the link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Cesar_Marolla

Dan.ferratti (talk) 17:11, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

I need help please to write a concise living person biography. I feel there's too many information and it faded the relevant information. Nonetheless, I think there's too many photos and need to prioritize with important information as well. Any changes/edit/delete are appreciated. I would sincerely appreciate your help and support. Thank you!

Dan.

Dan.ferratti (talk) 17:55, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * There's too much info there, and it's written like an essay, with non-encyclopedic verbiage. I recommend you save your copy, strip the info down to just the most important highlights, and make sure everything left is properly sourced. This page might help you. Help:Your_first_article TechnoTalk (talk) 01:16, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much. That gives me a better perspective. I am working on it as we speak. This is what I have so far. Both content and references have been edited to show relevance. Could you please and/or anyone in the community be kind and see the progress? I want to submit it when is super ready. Thank you!!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Cesar_Marolla?action=edit — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dan.ferratti (talk • contribs) 21:09, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

18:53:36, 14 December 2020 review of draft by Mcookiemonster
Hi! this is my first time creating an article, I just made "Encore Dance Center" :). There is a long list of people under references that are supposed to be Under the category of instructors, but I couldn't figure out how to do that. I would love love any help on this!

Mcookiemonster (talk) 18:53, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

18:55:56, 14 December 2020 review of submission by KennyParis
Hello, I believe my draft about the French Grammy-winning musicians/artists Picard Brothers has now all it needs to be approved, but I have no news for more than 2 months, and I would love some help please. I have searched and found more reliable sources and I have taken other examples of producers who are less known than Picard Brothers and saw the sources they used and I have searched in the same places. I am following the rules of Wikipedia and I truly believe that they deserve their page to be approved please. They have won a Grammy and they have produced the latest Beyoncé single, the last Mark Ronson album, and many songs for Diplo and Major Lazer. There are many websites mentioning their names, they participated in many of the biggest songs of the last decade. Please can you help ? Many thanks

KennyParis (talk) 18:55, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * As noted in the submission notice, "This may take 3 months or more, since drafts are reviewed in no specific order. There are 3,426 pending submissions waiting for review." As reviews are done by a limited number of volunteers, who do what they can when they can in no particular order, it is impossible to guarantee a time frame. You will need to continue to be patient. 331dot (talk) 20:05, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

21:50:38, 14 December 2020 review of submission by Drummerdman
Hi - this draft features the same amount of sources and same sources that many other NASCAR race result pages use, but unlike others, it was declined. How can I fix this to get it published? David Argo (talk) 21:50, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The state of other articles don't matter. Everything from the Results section and downward should be referenced which is the majority of the article. SL93 (talk) 03:21, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The PDFs at the end of the charts finally showed up on my end. I'm sorry you had to deal with my computer issues. I will accept the draft now. SL93 (talk) 03:28, 15 December 2020 (UTC)