Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2020 January 30

= January 30 =

2020 Big 12 football season
Well The 2020 Big 12 Football season article should be an article by now because they are 2 references i created this article last week. 68.103.78.155 (talk) 02:13, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * , you created a draft and submitted to AfC, which will review it and it will either be accepted to become an article or declined. As the yellow box at the bottom indicates, there is a major backlog and it will take some time to review it. As the season doesn't start for another 7 months or so, there will be plenty of time.
 * The delay will also reduce concerns about "crystal ball" issues, where we limit articles about events occurring in the future, as unexpected events can change the status (a team going bankrupt, for example). For example we don't run articles on presidential elections too far into the future. However, the concerns will be significantly reduced when under 6 months. Nosebagbear (talk) 11:38, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

03:49:26, 30 January 2020 review of submission by Geographyinitiative
Draft:Extreme points of Tajikistan Issue:

When I was a young child, there were books telling us the northernmost, westernmost, etc. points of countries, states of the USA etc. I am attempting to recreate that kind of "pure fact" kind of thing for Wikipedia concerning the Extreme points of Tajikistan and Extreme points of Afghanistan. However, there may be almost no one who directly broaches these subjects in the English language as far as I know (and I don't know very "far"!). I don't think Cassiopeia is wrong in delaying the draft of this article, but I do think that, using the maps I have linked on the page, we can see clearly where the extreme points of Tajikistan are at. If Google Maps concurs with that "eyeball analysis", I think that we can have a very solid foundation for saying where the extreme points of these countries are at. Plus, the articles List of countries by easternmost point, List of countries by westernmost point, List of countries by northernmost point, and List of countries by southernmost point already have most of this information and in a much less well-documented fashion than what I have created.

Request/Goal:

I would like to request help and potentially request special lenience for use of Google Maps, Bing Maps, etc in the creation of this special type of page. I am quite sure that the northernmost, westernmost etc points of a country are inherently noteworthy and are defined in a way similar to the answer to a mathematical equation: just as no "outside source" is needed for 2+2=4, northernmost is northernmost, and if northernmost can be shown on a map, then it is what it is. Also, I provided some sources that mention the northernmost point etc in passing, and I think regardless of whatever policies there may be about other articles, that's legitimate and worthwhile in the realm of finding the extreme points of a country, and bolsters instead of damages the case for inclusion of the Tajikistan page.

Geographyinitiative (talk) 03:49, 30 January 2020 (UTC) (modified)


 * Good day. A factual info (the existence) such as subject is shown in maps is not the WP:GNG (GNG) criteria and we dont place external links in body texts. The subject needs to be notable (worthy to be noted) to pass GNG where we need draft article's content to be supported by significant coverage of independent, reliable source (at least 3-5) for verification. Sources can be in digital / print and can be in any languages. If you cant find them then I suggest the content be merged to Tajikistan. Other reviewers are welcome to comment. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 03:59, 30 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Ok, let me try another way of justification: as we know, every human settlement is noteworthy for the purpose of Wikipedia- there can be no deletion of a minor geography page (Notability (geographic features)). I think that this doctrine should apply to extreme points too. Tajikistan is a UN member state like all the others. Just because no one has written down the extreme points of that nation in English in a systematic way doesn't mean that they don't exist. They do, and they are inherently noteworthy, just like the Extreme points of China or List of extreme points of the United States. All these points can be shown on a map. They are already mentioned on Wikipedia on other pages (List of countries by easternmost point, List of countries by westernmost point, List of countries by northernmost point, and List of countries by southernmost point). I say that this is a category of artificial geographical feature which is inherently noteworthy. Do I need to request a Wikipedia policy change in this area? I think my request will be successful. Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:18, 30 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi, Each article is note worthy of itself and is WP:NOTINHERIT because it exists or related to other notable subject. The two extreme points articles do have multiple sources which your draft article lacks (need few more sources). If you want to propose Wikipedia guidelines changes then you need to go to Village pump (proposals).  CASSIOPEIA(talk) 04:41, 30 January 2020 (UTC)


 * I have found an extreme point that is mentioned directly in the sources and have therefore resubmitted the draft (after hiding the maps). Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:46, 30 January 2020 (UTC)


 * The point is your draft needs more sources to support the content claimed for verification. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 05:28, 30 January 2020 (UTC)


 * I agree more sources are needed. That is true. But which claim needs further proof to move this from draft to mainspace? I'm just trying to move the page out of the path of the "can be deleted in six months" issue. (According to what I read somewhere, draft pages can be deleted after six months.) Geographyinitiative (talk) 05:47, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I have hidden the coordinates. The maps that show the extreme points are hidden. 'What evidence would you have beyond that of your own senses?' Geographyinitiative (talk) 05:55, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Geographyinitiative, you need to ping me so I would receive a notification. Draft article will remain in the draft space for 6 month before it is nominated for deletion WP:G13 if it has not been edited during the time frame. If it has been deleted and you would like to retrieve it you can request it from the admin who deleted the draft - see Requests for undeletion/G13. My comment/decline of the draft is not based on my own senses but on Wikipedia guidelines. What we need is additional sources (total 3-5 independent, reliable sources) that the sources talk about the subject in length and in depth which support the content claimed for verification. Just find a few more sources and then resubmit the draft. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 06:05, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * To require something of this page that does not exist on the China, USA or other affiliated pages is to look down on small nations. The China and USA extreme points pages not have the level of citation you want. Geographyinitiative (talk) 07:10, 30 January 2020 (UTC)


 * If you think the two pages do not pass the notability requirements, you are welcome to nominate them for deletion. The sources do not need to be in English, any languages are welcome, so if you would find source in Tajik, Persian, Russian or any languages then please add them in. Thank you.<b style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:80%;color:#FA0"> CASSIOPEIA</b>(<b style="#0000FF">talk</b>) 08:39, 30 January 2020 (UTC)


 * I would like to ask a direct and specific question to which I would like a yes/no answer (if possible): Are you saying that List of countries by easternmost point, List of countries by westernmost point, List of countries by northernmost point, and List of countries by southernmost point should be deleted / put into draft stage? Thanks if you can help me with that question. Geographyinitiative (talk) 08:57, 30 January 2020 (UTC) (modified)
 * It's a tough question for me to answer, but if your interpretation of the rules of Wikipedia is that these four pages I mention in my question should be put into draft and/or deleted, then I think I will have to change my mind and agree with you about the validity of the older versions of my Extreme points of Tajikistan page. (BTW: I have made an update on that page that cuts it down to the bare essentials: take a look if you like.) Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:44, 30 January 2020 (UTC)


 * I just saw your draft page has been accepted by a reviewer. The way it works in English Wikipedia is that, an article that is not notable in regardless how long/how many years it has existed in Wikipedia could be nominated for deletion (AfD). The same article would be renominated or deletion even the previous AfD was voted a keep (That is no limit to AfD of an article) and only arrticles that are truly meet the notable requirements stay in Wikipedia mainspace for good.  (sorry could not answer you yes or no on this one). We have 6 million articles in English Wikipedia with estimating of 1/6 to 1/5 are in bad quality. Many of the pages remains in mainspace is because no interested editors either improve the page where by the subject is notable or to AfD them as all of us are volunteers.  Thank you.<b style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:80%;color:#FA0"> CASSIOPEIA</b>(<b style="#0000FF">talk</b>) 10:41, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I have marked those articles as original research. Geographyinitiative (talk) 11:00, 30 January 2020 (UTC)


 * I don't see how any of these extreme point pages pass WP:GNG. This is all indiscriminate information. — HELL KNOWZ   ▎TALK 12:39, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Request on 06:17:47, 30 January 2020 for assistance on AfC submission by Hello2India
06:17, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

09:35:05, 30 January 2020 review of submission by Bethany m m
Hi, please can some-one advise next steps? Thanks. Bethany m m (talk) 09:35, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * , Next step: edit something else. This subject is not notable. I recommend you turn your energies towards existing pages, or make sure to ask here before starting articles from scratch to ensure they are first notable. CaptainEek  Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 18:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

No I won't be doing that - this system is ridiculous

14:37:13, 30 January 2020 review of submission by Jonashgs
Hello

I am creating a page called John Poysti Classic Ping Pong Tournament It keeps saying it's a local school tournament and that's why it cant be published.

It is not a school tournament, it is a tournament for everyone

I just takes place at a school

Please publish the page

Thank you

Jonashgs (talk) 14:37, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * , you have to demonstrate the event meets Wikipedia's standards for inclusion, by sourcing the article with significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the topic - wp:42. These standards exist so that all articles can be verified against good sources. If they didn't exist, there would be many articles for which we have no way of reliably knowing if the content is actually true.  Oxon Alex    - talk  15:22, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello again

So 'significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the topic'

I have 2 tournament planners and a manager/scorekeeper who is in charge of the tournament.

How are these sources not reliable? What am I missing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonashgs (talk • contribs) 23:38, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * , Sources mean published documents, not people. We can use things like newspapers, books, and websites, but not people; that would be original research which we don't allow. CaptainEek  Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 18:45, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

16:10:54, 30 January 2020 review of draft by Abbieatgrade
Abbieatgrade (talk) 16:10, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

I accidentally created a draft page last week for my artist Shygirl, and then began a sandbox today so i could review for publish - my review was declined because of this draft page but now im not sure how to have the draft page reviewed to be published?
 * You refer to "my artist". Please read the conflict of interest policy.  If you are representing a client or being paid by an artist, you must make a declaration, as described in more detail in the policy.  If you want to have the current draft deleted so that the sandbox can be reviewed, you can request that it be deleted by tagging it with db-g7.  However, you will also need to make any required declaration.  Robert McClenon (talk) 16:54, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

16:31:42, 30 January 2020 review of draft by Grlucas
I had a student accidentally submit this draft for review a bit too early. Is there a way to cancel this request? Thanks. —Grlucas (talk) 16:31, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Grlucas (talk) 16:31, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * User:Grlucas - I have declined the draft in order to withdraw it from review as per your request. However, my first thought is that it looks like it should be accepted.  It appears to be of reasonably good quality.  Of course, if you and your students improve it further, it will probably be better.  It can be resubmitted at any time, and I see no reason not to resubmit it.  It can be improved both while it is waiting for review and after it has been accepted, or after it has been declined again.  Robert McClenon (talk) 16:50, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I thought the same thing, but I want it to be in the best shape possible before submission. We have FA intentions. Thanks for your help. —Grlucas (talk) 22:07, 30 January 2020 (UTC)