Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2022 August 12

= August 12 =

03:01:44, 12 August 2022 review of submission by Inthetechworld
Inthetechworld (talk) 03:01, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Team,

I'm not sure why the page is being rejected. not sure how to write it without sounding like advertising. They're the facts about the company and I don't even have any affiliation with them, I just know about them from my previous employment with a tech company, they wore using their services and since i edited similar companies I've noticed they're not liste.

I need to understand how to do this without it being declined. I mean I've read many other wiki pages about other companies and I used a similar language.

I will probably be writing about more tech companies and projects, they will be corporations and some non-profit research and projects.

Please help with some bullet point guide lines and directions.

Thank You.
 * Your sources are, in order, the company website, two dog-bites-man business reports, and a website which seems to lack an editorial policy or editor-in-chief responsible for fact-checking. The lot of them are completely useless. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 07:23, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Rather than go into a lot of detail, suffice to say that writing an article is very hard. You should read WP:YFA to understand the process. Don't give up, but just know that writing a successful article is something few new editors can do correctly. TechnoTalk (talk) 08:42, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Rather than go into a lot of detail, suffice to say that writing an article is very hard. You should read WP:YFA to understand the process. Don't give up, but just know that writing a successful article is something few new editors can do correctly. TechnoTalk (talk) 08:42, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

06:52:33, 12 August 2022 review of draft by Neophytte
I'm not clear why, after updating references, my submission was again immediately declined.

Neophytte (talk) 06:52, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I looked at the difference between the previous decline and the more recent one, and you didn't really add anything new. Apple and Amazon links are not signs of notability, and the other three sources are just passing mentions. Scanning the other sources that were there already, it appears to be a large number of music web sites, showing him as a participant in a band or album, but not much about him specifically. Without profiles focused on him, it's hard to show that he's notable, at least as far as Wikipedia defines it.  Take a look at WP:NMUSICIAN for more about the notability requirements for musicians. TechnoTalk (talk) 08:33, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking the time to look through; I believe when he performed on national (Australian) TV and having a performance played as a backing music for a TV show in both Australia (Simon Townsend Wonder World) and United States (MTV video - Kiss and make up) meet criteria number 10 - is this a valid assumption? Neophytte (talk) 02:52, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

10:06:47, 12 August 2022 review of submission by Loisopokupr
I have added some third party cites as well as interviews that in course third party bylines.

Loisopokupr (talk) 10:06, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The draft was rejected, meaning that it will not be considered further. Interviews do not establish notability. 331dot (talk) 10:10, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Did you bother to read any of my analysis above? I was pretty explicit that interviews are useless for notability, and dismissed both the credited and uncredited ones. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 18:22, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

14:59:03, 12 August 2022 review of draft by 157.97.20.215
Hello! I have submitted three drafts of an entry on the "dot big bang" video game. Each was declined. With each draft, I addressed the feedback with improvements – the first was a notability issue, which I believe has now been supported with the inclusion of substantial press coverage; the second had a tone issue, which I have carefully improved to adhere to the available guidelines; the third issue was a lack of "reliable sources", which I believe has now been addressed with official web pages, and coverage from market-leading games industry outlets. The third draft seems to me to have fully addressed all the feedback given, but was rejected again – I am now at a loss on how to continue improving the article, and would value additional feedback from an experienced mod/editor. The draft article is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Dot_big_bang Thank you in advance for your help and feedback! I hope I can improve the article further and get the piece approved! :)

157.97.20.215 (talk) 14:59, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Refer to User:Jéské Couriano/Decode:
 * We can't use https://controlzee.com/ (Website homepage). Anything a subject controls is also useless for notability regardless (connexion to subject).
 * https://venturebeat.com/business/controlzee-raises-3-million-for-massively-interactive-swarm-games/ seems good. For future reference, you can set a reference to have a name and then just call that name for further uses of that reference; see Help:Footnotes.
 * https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/youtuber-prestonplayz-is-releasing-his-very-own-video-game-and-its-nft-free-1813202/ is useless for notability (connexion to subject). Prose interview with a company principal.
 * https://www.gamedeveloper.com/pc/digging-into-the-game-making-platform-phenomenon-with-dotbigbang-creator-robert-anderberg seems good.
 * I cannot assess https://pocketmags.com/us/3d-world-magazine/june-2022/articles/1141563/dot-big-bang-democrat-ising-game-development (walled). That said, given the blurb under the title, this is likely useless for notability (connexion to subject).
 * https://bleedingcool.com/games/prestons-diamond-dash-launches-as-free-online-title// is useless for notability (wrong topic). This helps (if only just) for Diamond Dash; Dot Big Bang is only mentioned once in passing at the very start of the article.
 * https://massivelyop.com/2019/10/02/dot-big-bang-is-a-voxel-sandbox-that-lets-you-create-your-own-objects-and-worlds-for-multiplayer-shenanigans/ seems fine.
 * https://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/1057910 is useless for notability (No editorial oversight). Podcasts tend to be poor sources unless their contents have gone through the editorial rigour we expect from usable sources, and it's unlikely a podcast on Newgrounds has.
 * We can't use https://www.alphabetagamer.com/dot-big-bang-open-pre-alpha/ (No editorial oversight). I can't find an editorial policy or a staff listing.
 * https://globalgamejam.org/news/dot-big-bang-joins-global-game-jam is useless for notability (connexion to subject). Since Dot Big Bang is a participant in the Global Game Jam, the GGJ is considered a surrogate of them as far as we are concerned.
 * We can't use https://www.girlsmakegames.com/dotbigbang-workshop (No editorial oversight). Signup pages are completely worthless as sources.
 * https://dotbigbang.com/education is useless for notability (connexion to subject).
 * We can't use https://www.gamesenquirer.com/post/dot-big-bang-youtube-star-preston-collaborate-on-would-you-rather (No editorial oversight). I can't find an editorial policy or staff listing.
 * In summary, this is a situation where the usable sources are being choked out by the bad ones. Get rid of pretty much all the bad sources I spelt out above and that will go a long way towards helping this draft. (That being said, if you have some sort of connexion to Control Zee, you need to register an account and disclose before you go any further.) —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 17:52, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

21:43:20, 12 August 2022 review of submission by Pcwstallion
Thank you, I very much appreciate the feedback. The issue I have is that in wrestling, especially British wrestling, the commentary team will not have as much press about them as the wrestlers themselves, even though they add so much to the wrestling product. We are the people that make the connection between the wrestlers in an arena and the audience at home. We won't have "and starring..." in the credits as in wrestling we don't have credits because it would ruin the suspension of disbelief, however I have 20 years of experience, the last 10 have had a TV presence in one way or another having had or a hundred episodes/shows broadcast with me in them. Without wanting to sound like a diva with an enlarged ego, I think I am worthy of a page, especially with me branching out into other areas of entertainment. Not only that, but for the historical moments I have been a part of which may seem insignificant with regards to feats such as discovering a new species or curing a disease but within our sphere it isn't. Being the commentator for the first Pride wrestling event in the UK for example is massive within our circles but it is the wrestlers who, quite rightly, deserve the main headlines however this does does diminish my role within proceedings. I can certainly add in pages where I have my profile on their website but for the reasons I have listed, I cannot really add a lot more. Think of us as being a bit like weather presenters. We are part of the news team, but we wont get any glory or interviews (and there are weather presenters who have their own pages). I absolutely implore you to review my page again with all of this in mind. Thank you for your consideration.

Pcwstallion (talk) 21:43, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * The above doesn't help your case a whit, especially given that professional wrestling as a topic is under sanctions. Trying to big up yourself to the reviewers and helpers that man this page is a good way to get ignored, as it gives the impression you don't give a shit other than to promote yourself. People aren't going to risk being sanctioned for the sake of the professional wrestling iteration of Ted Baxter. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 00:05, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I don't understand the reference or the anger at me. I've been nothing but polite and professional in my response and explanation of the circumstances. Your hostility has really caught me by surprise. I have re-read my response and I have no idea what has caused you offence but I apologize for whatever it was. 2A00:23C7:8700:C01:555C:4464:20E7:6412 (talk) 03:02, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Here's a hint: You're not in a stadium cutting a promo for fans; you're trying to convince sceptical editors to act in a topic area where the standards for sanctions are lowered and partisanship is heightened. Writing what amounts to self-promotion only serves to torque off or worry those editors. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 03:18, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Pcwstallion Experienced editor @Jéské Couriano is right about what he said, and yes, he can be straightforward (and blunt) in the way he says it.  Below, he calls himself a "bastard helper from hell".71.228.112.175 (talk) 06:44, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your response.71.228.112.175. There is nothing in my post that is "cutting a promo for fans" and whilst I am sure he is experienced and perhaps even right about denying my article, he hasn't really explained anything in a straightforward manner at all, only added unwarranted vitriol at a perfectly polite new user. Using obscure references and seeing promos that aren't there before coming back with such furious anger as if I had personally done something to aggrieve him comes across as unhelpful, rude and could be construed as "cutting his own promo".
 * I am a new user, I do not deal with Wikipedia every day like your good selves who I am positive know all the ins and outs and all the intricacies and this should be appreciated. In fact the rules at the top of my page were:
 * Assume good faith
 * Be polite and avoid personal attacks
 * Be welcoming to newcomers
 * Seek dispute resolution if needed
 * Whilst I have no idea whether Jeske has assumed good faith, he has pointedly not taken on board the second and third rules. I get that you all must have to pore over a lot of articles and your patience may get strained once you've gone through a lot of them, I really do. I can take rejection but the level of abuse levelled at me was absolutely uncalled for and whilst I might have to wait for a page to be published  somewhere down the line, I do feel that his unprofessionalism and rudeness must be highlighted to whomever oversees the moderators. "A bastard helper from hell" isn't helpful.
 * TLDR: I didn't come here for a fight, I came for help and advice. Pcwstallion (talk) 16:24, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I invite you to re-read your initial post, but instead put yourself into the point of view of someone who hates wrestling (or hates the promotions who've hired you). You may not realise this, but what you've written does come off as promotional, and that doesn't encourage people to try and help you, it encourages them to hurry to WP:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard (or, worse, WP:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents as the topic area is, once again, under sanctions). —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 19:14, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This makes so much more sense. Thank you Jeske for this, and I wish I'd got that from your original post. I absolutely get that you know your stuff and it's obvious that you are very knowledgeable. Again, I have no wish to fight. I just want to be guided as a newbie (kinda gently). If I don't fulful the criteria for wikipedia right now, then so be it but I don't want to make an enemy of anybody in real life. If anything, I've had fun making a wiki profile and working out the way it all comes together, so even if I'm rejected right now that's cool, it's been a lot of fun and a great experience making the profile. I don't want you or your real world experience "cancelled" or anything silly like that. I appreciate honesty, which I think you are really good at, just maybe with some pointers. Not wanting to take the P, I can honestly see you know your onions so please do not take this as anything other than reconciliational. You have a job and after this experience I appreciate it more, nothing less. I absolutely accept whether you accept a page or not. I really hope we are cool as I really don't want to make an enemy of you :) Pcwstallion (talk) 20:10, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Pcwstallion You haven't been rejected, even though your draft was declined.  Keep reading, and keep trying. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 08:53, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

21:45:45, 12 August 2022 review of draft by Capttanviraina
I need to get it published in a day or two. Can someone help me with it please? Capttanviraina (talk) 21:45, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * , why do you need it published so quickly? Slywriter (talk) 00:07, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I m getting paid for it and I need to submit n get it published ASAP. I need money for my bills. Capttanviraina (talk) 04:13, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Tough. You're getting a Bastard Helper From Hell instead.
 * We can't use Soundcloud (streaming website), Gaana (streaming website) or iTunes/Apple Music (online storefront). More to the point, anything the subject writes, films, sings, says, commissions, pantomimes, semaphores, interpretive-dances, etc. is absolutely worthless for notability (connexion to subject).
 * We can't use https://www.hindustantimes.com/brand-post/anand-parmar-production-soaring-high-in-the-world-of-tunes-101630680423912.html (no editorial oversight). Explicitly labeled as a "brand post".
 * We can't use https://www.mid-day.com/lifestyle/infotainment/article/anand-parmar-production-delivers-healing-to-the-world-with-the-power-of-music-23177776 (no editorial oversight). Byline is "BrandMedia".
 * https://auditiondetails.com/super-singer-season-8/ is a non-sequitur.
 * https://www.indiatoday.in/television/reality-tv/story/shankar-mahadevan-roped-in-as-the-first-judge-of-sa-re-ga-ma-pa-li-l-champs-season-9-1983830-2022-08-04 " " "-".
 * We can't use https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos/entertainment/music/hindi/latest-hindi-song-meri-kahani-sung-by-anand-parmar/videoshow/68829376.cms (too sparse, routine coverage). This is the equivalent of a Western musician sending in their music to a blog for promotion. Note that Times of India is generally viewed as a garbage source. This also applies to the mobile site cited, as it's the exact same article in a different form factor.
 * We can't use https://www.aninews.in/news/business/business/music-composition-bas-tu-under-anand-parmar-production-to-be-launched-in-august20210805131032/ (no editorial oversight). Article is credited to "ThePRTree".
 * We can't use https://zeenews.india.com/people/i-make-music-that-benefits-the-soul-and-the-health-says-anand-parmar-2369782.html (no editorial oversight). Yet another piece of churnalism.
 * This wouldn't be accepted under any circumstances. All the sources are junk, it reads like some PR flack shot all over the page, and given these I have to assume you're a mercenary editor. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 00:22, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * so if I remove these links n request it again will it be posted? I will edit the language too if required. Kindly do advise, your help is deeply appreciated. :) Capttanviraina (talk) 04:17, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * No, because that would leave you with zero sources for a biography of a living person and no way to prove notability as Wikipedia defines it. What is your connexion to Parmar? —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 04:46, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Jéské Couriano For the connexions, she said she was getting paid when the article gets published, and she needs the money. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 08:13, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I didn't actually see that responce, thank you.
 * You are obligated to DISCLOSE as per the Terms of Use of Wikipedia. Failing to do so is grounds for a block, so disclose before you do anything else. —<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 09:07, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * disclose what? and I have everything ready but a little guidance would be appreciated. :) Capttanviraina (talk) 10:00, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, your detailed ref-reply was before her admission, so you couldn't have seen it. We need that time machine. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 07:00, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I am an entertainment journalist and I am writing on upcoming musicians in India. I don't know him personally neither have I met him, I have heard his music and he is becoming famous in India. Before anyone else made it on him, I wanted to. Capttanviraina (talk) 10:00, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * You have said above "I'm getting paid for it" you need to disclose on your talk page who is paying per the terms andconditions of editing here. Theroadislong (talk) 11:48, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Given the numerous non-responses by the OP to queries about paid editing, I have blocked them for WP:UPE. This has wasted enough of the community's time. -- <strong style="color:blue">Kinu <i style="color: red">t</i>/<i style="color:red">c</i> 17:12, 13 August 2022 (UTC)