Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2022 August 26

= August 26 =

01:30:51, 26 August 2022 review of draft by Tamtrible
Twice, my "Table of plants used as herbs or spices" page has been rejected due to its similarity to the "list of culinary herbs and spices", though it has a somewhat different focus (it includes medicinal herbs, teas, et cetera, for example, and is a bit more focused on the plants as opposed to the products made from them), both times with the suggestion that I "use it to improve the list of culinary herbs and spices", which... I could only do by A. replacing the existing page with what I made, or B. essentially duplicating virtually all of the information currently on the page.

I proposed this on the LoCHaS, and so far the vote (support vs oppose) is 2 to 2.

I don't want to nuke the existing page, that a lot of people have worked on, to replace it with my own thing, unless there's a clear consensus. So, I'd like either to 1. make my page its own thing, and maybe revisit the issue of combining the pages after it's been "live" for at least a few months and other people have had the opportunity to improve/add to it, or 2. get a clear consensus on the LoCHaS talk page on replacing the existing page with my page.

There is a link on my draft to the prior discussion on the subject, from last time I tried to get it moved to mainspace.

Please help, I'd like to move forward on this one way or t'other.

Tamtrible (talk) 01:30, 26 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi @Tamtrible — a couple of remarks, neither of which you will probably like very much (sorry!):
 * FWIW, I think your efforts would be better aimed at improving the existing article than creating this new one. Having two articles with a lot of overlap creates confusion and extra work, which doesn't benefit anyone. Of course, that's just my view, and you shouldn't listen to any one user; what you're doing by discussing this on the existing article's talk page is exactly right, and you should wait for that process to complete (which can take a long time, BTW).
 * I find the definition and delineation of your list rather fuzzy: there are several items included which are neither herbs nor spices (avocado being one of the more extreme examples), and for that reason I think this would fail WP:LISTCRITERIA. If you can tighten the spec, and ideally in a way which distinguishes this more clearly from the existing article, per my previous point, that might help things.
 * That's my tuppenceworth, anyway. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:45, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, the avocados are on there because people do use avocado leaves as a seasoning... ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avocado#Leaves ) Similarly, citrus is on there for things like lemon zest, and lime leaves.  Are there any other entries you see that don't count as either seasonings, or medicinal herbs?
 * And I started the discussion on the talk page *over a year ago*. And there was almost no response. Tamtrible (talk) 23:10, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

01:57:49, 26 August 2022 review of draft by Melissa2019UT
I have drafted an article on an early e-zine of hiustorical value one of the features of this e-zine was the artwork that was published in it

i cannot upload or include samples of this artwork. what documentation do i need to show that I have permission to use these images?

Melissa2019UT (talk) 01:57, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * , before worrying about images, you may want to establish notability through independent reliable secondary sources. Archives of the subject, wikipedia articles, amazon are not reliable sources. See this guide for some assistance. Slywriter (talk) 02:22, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Images are not relevant to the draft approval process, which only considers the text and sources. There are some images that cannot be in drafts. 331dot (talk) 09:05, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

04:37:55, 26 August 2022 review of submission by LowLevel73
Hello! I'm inclined to withdraw the submission to AfC of the draft I've worked on, "Return to Monkey Island".

In the documentation of the AfC project I've not found any formal procedure describing how to withdraw a submission, so I think that I'll follow the option mentioned by User:DoubleGrazing a few topics before in a discussion with another editor, which is the manual removal of the AfC tags from the draft. It is my understanding that it is a viable option.

I'm opening this topic here to assure other editors that the removal of the tags has no malicious or WP:DE intent but it's simply a practical way to withdraw the submission.

I thank you again for the precious support given to me a few days ago! ► LowLevel73 (talk) 04:37, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

08:54:24, 26 August 2022 review of submission by Passingtramp
Hello - this article was rejected, partially with the rationale from Velella that "No source confirms that this is the "first" such house". However, the first source cited states exactly this: it states "The first solar house in the UK, illustrated in Fig. 5.1, was designed by the architect-owner, the late Edward J. Curtis". Passingtramp (talk) 08:54, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The first source is an automatically generated collection of sources, not a source itself. 331dot (talk) 09:04, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks . I've now added the source itself. Does this look more satisfactory? Passingtramp (talk) 09:09, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * That helps, but the reviewer is correct that some more sources are needed. To pass this process reviewers generally look for at least three independent reliable sources; you only have two(not including the collated collection). 331dot (talk) 09:13, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

14:20:14, 26 August 2022 review of submission by Melissa2019UT
Is there a way to UNSUBMIT a draft that was sent in for review. I have since found out that I did several things wrong. 1 - I failed to include the strongest citations to establish notability 2 - Half of my citations should have been external links 3 - and i left to sentences completely unfinished

Melissa2019UT (talk) 14:20, 26 August 2022 (UTC)


 * @Melissa2019UT: your draft has been declined already, so there is no need (indeed, no way) to 'unsubmit' it now. In any case, you can continue to make improvements both before and after you submit, so there is no need to unsubmit just to do that.
 * Or if you meant that you wish to completely withdraw your draft, then you can either blank it or place the tag on it. Or you can just leave it to wither on the vine, so to speak, and after c.  6 months it will get deleted. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:26, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * thanks Melissa2019UT (talk) 18:43, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

14:48:06, 26 August 2022 review of submission by Ayamano2021
I added the source from https://www.pageantcircle.com/2022/08/miss-universe-nepal-2022-is-sophiya-bhujel.html Ayamano2021 (talk) 14:48, 26 August 2022 (UTC)


 * @Ayamano2021: that's what's known as 'too little, too late'; this draft has been rejected, and the addition of a single source isn't going to change that now. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:00, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

16:04:49, 26 August 2022 review of submission by IraqArtist
The submission was rejected on the basis that the 'references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published'.

I appreciate that this is accurate however it does not take into account the reason for notability. As a photojournalist working for the Associated French Press with works published in all major international outlets including the BBC, there is no detail given about the photojournalist within the articles, just reference that he is the artist who photographed the major world events. Due to the nature of the notability, it would not make sense for the BBC or other referenced outlets to write pages about this artist. He is a famous artist with a huge social media following, speaking at TED Talks this year and the most famous global photojournalist in Iraq. Kindly review the decision on this basis and I would humbly request it is reconsidered. Thank you. IraqArtist (talk) 16:04, 26 August 2022 (UTC)


 * @IraqArtist: if I understand correctly, the essence of your argument seems to be that this person is notable, but just doesn't meet the general notability criteria. If that's the case, then you always have the option of demonstrating notability via the special notability route, per WP:JOURNALIST. Just beware, article creators invariably underestimate the height of the bar they need to clear this way / overestimate how significant, important, etc. the subject in question is. (And on that subject, speaking at TED Talks and having a "huge social media following" mean naught.)
 * PS: This draft wasn't rejected, only declined. Which among other things means that you don't need to request it to be reconsidered; you just need to address the reason(s) for declining, and then resubmit. Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:24, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a very very helpful reply thank you. I really appreciate the guidance about the terminology. May I ask for your advice on how to address the reason for the decision? For instance, the reference list ought to be longer? The publications this artists work have been in span extremely reputable organisations and photo journalists with a significantly lower calibre do have Wikipedia pages. So I am afraid it is my shortcoming in understanding what to tweak in order for the decision to be reversed. Many thanks again! IraqArtist (talk) 13:41, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

16:32:24, 26 August 2022 review of submission by A. Erkiaga
I just translated the Spanish article, which already exists. I preserved all the information as-is, and the sources remain intact. However, the submission has been declined, stating that the sources are insufficient. Unfortunately, I do not have access to more sources or info, I just translated the article as it did not exist in the English Wikipedia. I wonder if there's anything I can do (e.g. translating more information from the sources, adding a notice, etc.) to get the article in an acceptable state.

A. Erkiaga (talk) 16:32, 26 August 2022 (UTC)


 * @A. Erkiaga: this is a common problem, arising from the fact that the English-language wiki has a higher threshold of notability (as well as more onerous referencing requirements in general, it often seems) than some (or all?) other language versions. This means that what has been accepted — or at least exists — in another language wiki, may not be accepted with the same sources into en.wiki. Also, the fact that an article exists elsewhere carries no weight in what comes to being accepted into other languages, as each language version is a separate project with their own rules and policies. Therefore, if you cannot find any more/better sources, then it may not be possible to get this draft accepted. Sorry, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:42, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

17:10:48, 26 August 2022 review of draft by Prashant.sharma7272
Asking for verification of Page IMRJA8 (Markus Villig)....

Prashant.sharma7272 (talk) 17:10, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * You have submitted it for a review and it is pending. As noted at the top of the draft, this may not happen quickly. Please be patient. If you have an association with this person, please read WP:COI and WP:PAID for information on required formal disclosures. 331dot (talk) 17:13, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

17:47:59, 26 August 2022 review of submission by Xcfire
I linked all the websites that referred to D1 women's hockey all on public websites from www.ecac.com to st Lawrence university why is there a copyright infringement

Xcfire (talk) 17:47, 26 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Because we do not allow lifting content directly from a source. Most sources are all-rights-reserved (either explicitly or by default); Wikipedia uses a content licence that is fundamentally incompatible with such. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 17:59, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * so how do most D1 NCAA athletes do it or should I just remove the sources or will it comes back says invalid because of no source?  like the first time I published the page with no cte Xcfire (talk) 19:16, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * They don't. Volunteer editors with (ideally) no connexion to the subject write articles in their own words based on in-depth, non-routine, independent news/scholarly sources that are written by identifiable authors and subjected to rigourous fact-checking. This is more strictly enforced where living or recently-departed people are the subject matter. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 19:24, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xcfire: there's a big difference between citing a source and copying from a source. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 19:26, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm the reviewer who declined the draft and tagged it for deletion. The draft consisted mainly of copied sentences from a couple of pages on the websites saintsathletics.com and ecahockey.com. This was problematic for three reasons: there's the copyright issue, there's the tone of the text which was very promotional, and thirdly, it was not a cohesive text – I have the copyvio report still open in a tab, so let me quote two of the sections:

2021-2022
Became the first All-America honoree for the Saints since Brooke Webster '17 earned second team honors in 2017 and the 12th honoree in program history

She ranked in the top five in several statistical categories, including save percentage (.948 — 1st), GAA (1.48 — 5th), saves (568 — 2nd), and wins (10 — 4th). Of her 31 total starts, five were shutouts and 17 were outings where she allowed one goal or less.

Lucy Morgan was named the MAC Goaltending ECAC Hockey Goaltender of the Year for the second year in a row. First goalie to repeat since 2012-2013 in the ECAC

Lucy Morgan was named First Team all ECAC

Career High 50 stops against Harvard 2/14/22 for a Tie

2020-2021
St. Lawrence University sophomore Lucy Morgan was named ECAC Hockey Goaltender of the Year.


 * Instead of using sentences from the sources, you need to base the draft on facts from the sources, which you present in your own words, in a neutral tone, and in full paragraphs that have a logical progression. (For one thing, the reader will expect information about a person's career to be presented in chronological order!) --bonadea contributions talk 20:37, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

19:29:23, 26 August 2022 review of submission by Harobouri
I’ve been working on a draft for the song “Talk That Talk”. It was released today, and someone had already created a new article under the name “Talk that Talk (Twice song)”. What should I do?

from yours truly, Harobouri T • C 19:29, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Just abandon your draft and edit the existing article here Talk that Talk (Twice song). Theroadislong (talk) 19:46, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

20:24:51, 26 August 2022 review of draft by Aring2022
Hello! I have written an article for Soul Htite that has been rejected. Htite is the founder and CEO or CTO of three companies that have achieved unicorn status. He founded two of the unicorns with Renaud LaPlanche, who has a published wikipedia page. Soul is continuing to build an empire of fintech innovative platforms. LaPlanche's article has similar verifiable references as does Htite's article. Each article has 35 sources which include Reuters, Forbes, Harvard and many others. Can you please provide guidance of how we can get the Htite article published? Would really appreciate some insight as to why Htite's article has been rejected while LaPlanche's has been accepted? Many thanks, Annette

Aring2022 (talk) 20:24, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Your draft was "declined", not "rejected", which has a specific meaning- that resubmission is not possible. Declined means that resubmission is possible. Who is "we"? If you represent this person, please read WP:COI and WP:PAID for information on required formal disclosures. Please read other stuff exists; that another article exists does not mean that it was approved by anyone. As this is a volunteer project where people do what they can when they can, it is possible to get inappropriate articles by us(in many ways). 331dot (talk) 20:29, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It may sound odd to hear, but you actually have too many sources. This is because you are trying to document every activity this person has done. That is not what Wikipedia is for. A Wikipedia article about a person must summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about the person, showing how they meet Wikipedia's special definition of a notable person. "Significant coverage" goes beyond merely telling what the person does, and is not based on interviews with them or other materials from them. What are your three best sources? 331dot (talk) 20:35, 26 August 2022 (UTC)