Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2022 December 11

= December 11 =

02:14:29, 11 December 2022 review of submission by Iranrevolution401
My submission was declined because the editor thinks it is a news about a single event and may not be noticeable on Wikipedia. I understand the editors point, but I would like to mention that the purpose is solely to inform officials outside Iran, including UNICEF about what is happening right now in Iran and wikipedia is the best platform to do that. Please re-consider my submission or at least provide me with some hints to make it publishable. Thanks! Iranrevolution401 (talk) 02:14, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @Iranrevolution401: as I mentioned in the decline comment, this subject (IMO; happy to hear other views) fails WP:BLP1E. In any case, Wikipedia is not an appropriate channel for informing "officials outside Iran what is happening right now in Iran". Which isn't a comment on your cause; only that you need to find a different platform for disseminating such information. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:54, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Iranrevolution401 The word you are looking for is "notable", not "noticeable".  Notable, in the Wikipedia sense, is defined here. David10244 (talk) 08:32, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

07:45:26, 11 December 2022 review of submission by Raash world
Raash world (talk) 07:45, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * What is your question, @Raash world? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:50, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

07:59:49, 11 December 2022 review of submission by Raash world
Raash world (talk) 07:59, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Please don't submit duplicate questions. echidnaLives  -  talk  -  edits  08:12, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Especially without actually asking a question. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:20, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Raash world: No sources, no article, no debate. The constant screaming in the draft is also inappropriate. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 12:50, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

11:31:53, 11 December 2022 review of submission by Abdullah Ansar Abbas
Abdullah Ansar Abbas (talk) 11:31, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * You don't ask a question, but your draft was rejected, meaning that it will not be considered further. Wikipedia is not a place for people to tell the world about themselves, please read the autobiography policy. Please also see the comments left by the reviewer. 331dot (talk) 12:02, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

13:27:05, 11 December 2022 review of submission by Rubiesar
please kindly review and make this page live Rubiesar (talk) 13:27, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @Rubiesar: it will be reviewed when a reviewer gets around to it. There are 3,300+ drafts awaiting review. Please be patient. Thank you, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:31, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

14:42:03, 11 December 2022 review of submission by Shanto Karmakar
Shanto Karmakar (talk) 14:42, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @Shanto Karmakar: No sources, no article, no debate. We're not a social media website and are not interested in whatever you have to say about yourself. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 14:47, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

17:23:30, 11 December 2022 review of draft by Taylorrobinson789
Taylorrobinson789 (talk) 17:23, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @Taylorrobinson789 You should not scan copyrighted material; that PDF has been deleted from Commons.  You can reference a newspaper,  but you can't upload a scan.  See WP:REFB. David10244 (talk) 03:33, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * If there is no electronic copy, what is my option? Taylorrobinson789 (talk) 18:12, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I recently submited a biography for re-submission, and wanted to understand the notes. All of the citations are directly related to the topic, but I am happy to look furhter for more secondary resources.

In this article, I have mainly primary sources I have done research to find, hunt down, and scan in through the wikimedia service. When reviewing, the person of interest is clearly a real human, a credible human, and one of great regard outlined in his obituary, in the Ibis yearbook, the Miami Herald has published him multiple times as he was an editor there for decades, his own work and work written about him, etc. One such recent newsletter I added today and scanned in that discussess his life.

Please help me understand my next steps, or how these primary resources are not sufficient.
 * Flatly, we're not interested in anything a subject says or writes, or has convinced someone to say or write on their behalf. Our notability guideline is entirely about how much outlets that have no direct connexion to him or any of his associates have written about him. Whether he is a real person or not doesn't matter; existence alone cannot justify an article. This goes double if the person is still alive or has recently departed. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 20:46, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @Taylorrobinson789 Wikipedia wants secondary sources, not primary sources. See WP:PST. David10244 (talk) 08:39, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, I understand that, I think I phrased my question wrong. Taylorrobinson789 (talk) 18:11, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

18:14:43, 11 December 2022 review of draft by HanaKaeKo
Hi Editors,

I want to make sure my article pass this time seeing as I found some great new sources according to Wiki guidelines. My article is about CGVerse concept art school. Just want to confirm before I resubmit. Thank you for reading!

Here are their links: 1. https://medium.com/@jamesryanawkit/a-deep-dive-into-the-world-of-digital-art-with-cgverse-personalized-concept-art-school-b8fb2bc7a13f

2. https://medium.com/@jamesryanawkit/the-covid-19-pandemic-aftermath-7090583433fc

Have a good day!

HanaKaeKo (talk) 18:14, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @HanaKaeKo: Medium is not an acceptable source under any circumstances. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 20:16, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Request on 18:24:59, 11 December 2022 for assistance on AfC submission by Usmanmaifada
Usmanmaifada (talk) 18:24, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @Usmanmaifada: Refer to the bottom table on User:Jéské Couriano/Decode:
 * Sheshe He was born in 1965... - Source? (You CANNOT just slap sources at the end of the section; they need to be cited at the claim itself.)
 * ...at Sheshe Quarters Kano Municipal local government... - This is unintelligible. Birthplace also requires a source.
 * ...professor Sheshe attended Madatai Special Primary School in the year 1972... - Source? This entire sentence is also rambling.
 * ...[Sheshe attended] Government Secondary School Gwale... -Rambling, source?
 * ...then he attend Rumfa Collage All in Kano State. - Rambling, source?
 * He then joined the school of Basic Studies at Ahmadu Bello University, Zaria for the IJMB... - Source? Also, you need to explain what the IJMB is; your (world-wide) audience isn't going to be familiar with acronyms from Nigeria.
 * ...[He] later got admission in faculty of Medicine in Bayero University Kano, for his pre-clinical studies in 1986. - Source?
 * Then he move[d] to Benin University in 1988... - Source?
 * ...graduated in MBBS in 1991. - Source? Acronym also needs defined.
 * Dr. Sheshe did his NYSC in Akwa Ibom State... - Source? Acronym also MUST be defined to remove ambiguity.
 * Then he Worked at Murtala Mohammad Specialist Hospital as Medical Officer... - Source? This sentence doesn't end with a fullstop.
 * He go to Bayero University Teaching Hospital... - Source?
 * ...[He went,] in 1997 to Ahmadu Bello University Zaria for his residency at the Department of Surgery. - Source?
 * Sheshe was appointed Honorary Consultant in Surgery and Lecturer 1 in Bayero University Kano in 2004. - Source?
 * He [h]as been in the Department of Surgery of Aminu Kano Teaching Hospital until his appointment as deputy chairman, Medical Advisory Committee in 2014... - Source?
 * ...then [he was appointed] chairman [of] Medical Advisory Committee in 2017... - Source?
 * Sheshe is the newly Chief Director of Aminu Kano Teaching Hospital after his predecessor... - Cite the SolaceBase article here, assuming it can be used to support this and the claim immediately before it.
 * Hepatic Resection in law resource setting - This is unintelligible.
 * Surgical tre[a]tment of Breast Diseases in Kano - Irrelevant.
 * Surgical management Adult HIRSCHSPRUNG'S Disease - Irrelevant. Surgery is the usual treatment for Hirschsprung's, so while this may seem like a big deal this doesn't really help him stand out from a crowded hospital full of surgeons of various disciplines.
 * A rare case of HIRSCHSPRUNG'S Disease in a young Nigerian M[a]n - Irrelevant. As this is worded, it sounds more like Sheshe's the person being referred to here.
 * Giant in Inguinal Hernia - This is unintelligible.
 * Effect of Flap-fixation on Seroma Formation After Mastectomy among African Patient - This is unintelligible.
 * The text of this article has a lot of issues, many of which can be chalked to creator provincialism more than anything. Your audience on Wikipedia isn't just English speakers in Nigeria; it's English speakers around the world. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 20:41, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

18:37:52, 11 December 2022 review of submission by 38.19.173.54
Unfortunately the prior reviewer's comments is just more proof that this review was arbitrary and capricious and not in accordance with Wikipedia guidelines. Statement by reviewer: Of the references, only the first two even mention his name, a very bad sign. This statement is categorically false and demonstrates that the references were not sufficiently reviewed. Of the references no less than eight mention Mr. Williams by name and no less than five of them even have quotations by Mr. Williams. This is further proof that this article did not receive a fair and balanced review. In addition, it is requested that the next reviewer be from the United States as it is seems evident that non-US reviewers may not appreciate the significance of certain prominent legal positions within the United States federal government. Thank you. 38.19.173.54 (talk) 18:37, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Congratulations, you've just earned the attention of a bastard helper from Hell. For the record, our nationalities are completely irrelevant as to whether an article passes muster or not.
 * https://buffalonews.com/news/vacco-demotes-top-prosecutor-in-shake-up-gicale-replaces-williams-as-second-in-command-at/article_85691f23-44c9-5555-93f2-a636ab81b9d1.html looks good.
 * https://buffalonews.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/roger-p-williams-80-federal-prosecutor-and-mentor-to-many-attorneys/article_5c2daab7-9a4d-5ace-82ad-e9de2f0b18f4.html is also good.
 * The Courier Express article is useless for notability (too sparse), with the article itself verging on being too short to cite. The article really doesn't say anything about him that a more in-depth source - newspaper or book - wouldn't already cover and in more detail.
 * https://buffalonews.com/news/man-accused-of-smuggling-jets-knew-of-law-violations-jury-told/article_590b30cf-cdb4-5301-a630-5d55a33834fe.html is useless for notability (too sparse). This article is primarily direct quotes and attributed claims; nothing about him specifically that other sources don't already cover.
 * https://apnews.com/article/13ca17e09291b74302d96830bba21c90 is a non-sequitur. An article that doesn't mention the subject - let alone discuss them in any appreciable depth - is not going to be a useful source for an article on that subject.
 * https://buffalonews.com/news/verdict-on-arms-dealer-disputed-lawyer-says-conviction-was-logically-inconsistent/article_9b22dfad-1984-50c9-bddb-5251cc5cc16b.html is useless for notability (too sparse). Attributed claims; no actual discussion of Williams.
 * https://buffalonews.com/news/jury-convicts-avelino-on-4-counts-in-sale-of-jets-is-cleared-on-5-others/article_f864580d-22e8-51b3-bbed-ea0b1fe450b9.html is useless for notability (too sparse). Direct quote and attributed claim; no discussion of Williams.
 * I cannot assess https://numerique.banq.qc.ca/patrimoine/details/52327/2927306 (language barrier). The cite there is also missing required information for an offline cite (page numbers, author).
 * https://buffalonews.com/news/2-double-agents-here-help-seize-a-spy-suspect/article_392feb01-1900-5631-a6b3-91c2caeaa920.html is useless for notability (too sparse). Name-drop.
 * https://buffalonews.com/news/u-s-canada-probe-sale-of-fuel-laced-with-toxins-paper-says-area-bootleggers-added/article_3bafb659-47c9-5a9a-9f7a-bed9027141c7.html is useless for notability (too sparse). Direct quotes and attributed claims, no actual discussion of Williams.
 * https://archive.macleans.ca/article/1989/5/22/toxins-by-truckload is a non-sequitur.
 * https://buffalonews.com/news/con-artist-tells-court-police-officials-plotted-to-nail-attorney/article_d3b69c45-ffe3-5130-b8c6-62344f933e4f.html is useless for notability (too sparse). Name in a list, no actual discussion.
 * So no, you have not met notability as we define it, and the reviewer was correct to decline. While they are incorrect about how many sources have his name in it, the basic thrust of his claim that only the first two sources are any good holds water. We don't care about sources that only parrot or paraphrase whatever he said; we want sources that actually talk about the person at length. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 20:15, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

20:04:10, 11 December 2022 review of draft by Yae4
The following 5 citations are in rough order of amount of coverage of Draft:Mobian specifically. They are secondary and independent. They are in-depth/not just passing mentions, perhaps with exception of the last one. I saw nothing to say they were not reliable. The Draft reviewer declined article submission. Can someone please explain why these citations are not sufficient, or which criteria they fail?


 * The 9to5Linux source, not to be confused with others like 9to5Google, is several paragraphs all about Mobian. No previous RSN discussions were found. 9to5Linux has been cited almost 20 times.


 * The Heise.de source (German, see Heinz_Heise) is 4+ paragraphs, focused on Mobian for PinePhone. Heise.de has been cited hundreds of times An extensive case for reliability of heise.de was made at RSN, although clear, general consensus did not emerge. In that discussion, I took no position on general reliability, but was against using one specific heise source, because it was a YouTube transcript; to their credit, heise included appropriate disclaimers.


 * The two Fossbytes sources look somewhat bloggish, but I saw nothing inaccurate, and the coverage is extensive and almost entirely on Mobian. There were no previous RSN discussion of Fossbytes. Fossbytes has been cited dozens of times.


 * The Hackaday source discusses Pinephone hardware initially including Ubuntu touch pre-installed, explains why they switched to Mobian, and includes a very long paragraph solely on Mobian. Hackaday has been cited hundreds of times. Hackaday has been discussed a couple times in RSN but involvement was limited, and outcomes were disrupted or not clear.


 * The Linux Magazine citation by Jack Wallen is several paragraphs about a new product sold with Mobian pre-installed. No previous RSN discussions were found Linux Magazine has been cited dozens of times. Jack Wallen is a somewhat well known writer, in some tech areas, and has been cited at least tens of times.

-- Yae4 (talk) 20:04, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Yae4 (talk) 20:04, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

21:29:16, 11 December 2022 review of submission by Aethiral
Why was the article declined? I noticed that there was no english version for the wikipedia page on clanbase, however there was a short wikipedia page on the Netherlands wikipedia page, https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/ClanBase. However with no english version, I translated and also fixed a few issues with the page, however it seems to have been declined for whatever reason.

Aethiral (talk) 21:29, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The "whatever reason" is that it has zero reliable sources. Theroadislong (talk) 21:31, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

21:51:01, 11 December 2022 review of draft by HenriHa
HenriHa (talk) 21:51, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Now I've added some more sources. How can article moved back to the mainspace if it's of sufficient quality? Or do I need add more sources? --HenriHa (talk) 16:34, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello! I need help improving article Lasse Huittinen which is now moved to draft namespace. It's very difficult to find more sources about thief that lived 15th century. --HenriHa (talk) 21:51, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Sources do not need to be online, they need to only be publicly available. Books in a library are fine. 331dot (talk) 21:55, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I know that, but only book I know about him is already used as reference and it's not enough. The book is readable for free only some of finnish universities, the web version is behind paywall. There are very few documents about people that lived in Finland at that time. --HenriHa (talk) 22:06, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @HenriHa, the article in the Finnish Wikipedia has as its only reference a short biography in the Finnish national biography. The English Wikipedia requires more sources than this. Requirements for articles differ among the various language versions of Wikipedia. You would need to find enough sources to show that he was not just a very minor figure in Finnish history. StarryGrandma (talk) 22:05, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I found another source at https://arkivkopia.se/bok/runeberg-stock14 and I've already asked about webservice that is provided by finnish librarians but I fear that there might not be anymore documents about him. But I continue about searching them and adding them to the article when I found them. --HenriHa (talk) 22:09, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @HenriHa If you can't find enough sources about him, then unfortunately Wikipedia can't have an article about him -- since all articles must be backed by reliable, independent, published sources.  Sorry. David10244 (talk) 03:40, 12 December 2022 (UTC)


 * I understand that. --HenriHa (talk) 06:56, 12 December 2022 (UTC)


 * If I find more reliable sources, how many is enough for this kind of article? --HenriHa (talk) 07:03, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @HenriHa: there is no fixed number as such, although three is often quoted as a minimum. Especially as Schück's book which you mention above only provides a single short chapter on Lasse (or rather, on this particular Lasse), then I would say you need one more solid source. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:20, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I found another book but it's used as source in kansallisbiografia so am I right when I think it isn't an independent source? I will get this book in this week. --HenriHa (talk) 12:44, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @HenriHa: what's the other book? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:04, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Finnarnas historia i Sverige, written by K. Tarkiainen in 1990, avaible only with swedish language. --HenriHa (talk) 15:01, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @HenriHa: okay, if it provides significant coverage of Lasse, and if the information there hasn't already been fully regurgitated by the Huldén text (in which case they would effectively be the same source), then that could work. Hard to say more without knowing the detail. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:09, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * If it does I add it to the article if not then I will travel to Helsinki and try to find some old documents that probably are there and also ask if there are some other books. --HenriHa (talk) 15:21, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a plan, @HenriHa. Might need a little recce visit to Stockholm, also; the HEL-STO party boats should be in full swing this time of year. :) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:19, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

I can't find anything about Lasse Huittinen in Finnarnas historia i Sverige, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything there – I haven't scrutinised the entire book. I see he was also known as "Lasse Kyrkotjuv" or "stora kyrkotjuven", so those search terms might be useful. Finlands medeltidsurkunder is interesting, as the original primary source. Primary sources don't show notability, but there is some information in that text that isn't in Schück, nor in the kansallisbiografia.fi source (for instance that he couldn't remember all the churches he had burgled). A question for : is the online edition of Suomen kansallisbiografia different from the printed edition? I ask because the Huldén reference looks like it is an entry in the printed work, and if that is the same text as kansallisbiografia.fi it means it's the same source – I suspect the printed one is a bit longer though, because the online one is pretty short. On the other hand, that might mean that the online source doesn't add anything to the printed one. --bonadea contributions talk 18:03, 12 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The printed one is longer than this free online, but behind paywall there is longer online version, but I haven't bought it. The points I've added reference to online edition are points that are written on the free version. --HenriHa (talk) 18:34, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * In other words the free online edition which I have been used as reference is much shorter than printed edition, but there is also non-free online edition which is longer than free but I don't know is it different than printed edition or not. --HenriHa (talk) 18:36, 12 December 2022 (UTC)