Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2022 July 19

= July 19 =

03:25:27, 19 July 2022 review of submission by Brakshit23
Namaste.. I have made few correction before yesterday's submission. i have quoted 2-3 reputed, reliable and appropriate web sources for the identity of the subject. Still its missing. It has reference of Industry Reference, it has Reputed newspaper's article, it has mention of various news paper which are in multiple language and well known. Still i am getting rejection.

I took reference of other similar personality and refereed their article and from neutral point of view it has been written. Still gets rejected. Please help me to improve. suggest in same article Brakshit23 (talk) 03:25, 19 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Only the first source barely shows any reliability, therefore the draft was declined QiuLiming1 (talk) 04:46, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

07:31:56, 19 July 2022 review of submission by 156.204.178.149
156.204.178.149 (talk) 07:31, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
 * You don't ask a question, but your draft was rejected, meaning that it will not be considered further. It seems to be complete gibberish. 331dot (talk) 07:52, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

12:43:56, 19 July 2022 review of submission by Tullia Rossato
Hi, my draft has been declined numerous times over these last few months, both because of the lack of reliable, published sources, and because of the way it's written. I need help understanding which sources are considered unreliable and what makes the article sound like an advertisement. I wonder, for example, whether describing the musician's musical taste and background means it's not written from a neutral point of view, or if the problem lies elsewhere. Thank you very much.

Tullia Rossato (talk) 12:43, 19 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Since this will ultimately discuss both sources and text, refer to User:Jéské Couriano/Decode.
 * We can't use https://artcentron.com/2021/08/06/j-music-ensemble-jazzy-modern-japanese-music/ (unknown provenance). Role byline; who actually wrote this?
 * https://www.pressreader.com/usa/sun-sentinel-broward-edition/20100509/284558764182615 seems okay.
 * I'm having a hard time determining if https://www.vaildaily.com/entertainment/vail-jazz-alumni-new-york-city-composer-patrick-bartley-still-carries-his-experience-in-vail-onto-every-stage/ is usable or if it should be dismissed for a connexion to the subject. The piece and authorship in the footer muddy the water enough that I personally would not use this.
 * http://jetwit.com/wordpress/2016/05/05/jq-magazine-jqa-with-patrick-bartley-of-j-music-ensemble/ is useless for notability (connexion to subject). Interview with non-substantial lede.
 * https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/01/arts/music/pop-rock-and-jazz-in-nyc-this-week.html is useless for notability (too sparse). Name-drop.
 * https://www.jazzspeaks.org/jazz-speaks/the-jazz-gallery-mentoring-series-vol-3-ed-3-patrick-bartley-and-dayna-stephens is useless for notability (connexion to subject). Bartley worked with this organisation.
 * https://jmih.org/events/the-jazz-gallery-mentorship-series-vol-3-ed-1-dayna-stephens-group-featuring-patrick-bartley-jr is 404-compliant.
 * https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/steve-millers-welcome-to-the-vault-out-today-300937038.html is useless for notability (connexion to subject). Cision/PR Newswire only ever publishes press releases, which are commissioned by the subject or on their behalf.
 * https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/arts/music/jazz-at-lincoln-center-saint-lucia.html is useless for notability (too sparse). Name-drop.
 * https://www.sdent.net/j-pop-meets-jazz-meet-patrick-bartley-jr/ is useless for notability (connexion to subject). Interview with non-substantial lede.
 * https://www.shrinemagazine.com/blog/patrick-bartley-interview is 404-compliant; the domain expired. Get an archived version of this source if you want it assessed, if one is available.
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFXcwv9XISc&t=19s is useless for notability (connexion to subject). Bartley is an active part of the video. More generally, YouTube as a source is only usable if (1) the video was created by an outlet we'd normally consider to be a credible source with editorial rigour and (2) uploaded to that outlet's verified channel.
 * https://www.moma.org/calendar/events/3220 is useless for notability (connexion to subject). Events calendar for a venue that's hosting him.
 * I cannot assess https://advance-lexis-com.ezp.biblio.unitn.it/api/document?collection=news&id=urn:contentItem:60JV-PGD1-JD3Y-Y202-00000-00&context=1516831. (walled). This requires a login to the University of Trento website, and as such likely shouldn't be used as a source at all (since it's probably only available to students there).
 * Your sources thus aren't particularly good. The Sun Sentinel source is the absolute best one you have; the rest are varying degrees of unusable. Now for the text. Get some coffee; this is gonna take some time as I am obligated to go claim-by-claim.
 * Patrick Bartley Jr, born and raised in Hollywood, Florida... - Source?
 * ...during his early childhood wasn't particularly interested in music, but was really into visual art and video games. - Source?
 * Many of his projects to date have some kind of connection with video games, which have always been part of his musical background. - The source here has been rejected, get a new one.
 * In his early education, during which he was part of the school band, he started learning the basics from Melton Mustafa Jr.... - The Sun Sentinel source corroborates this; 86 "during which he was part of the school band" as extraneous.
 * ...son of the trumpeter Meldon Mustafa. - Irrelevant. 86 this.
 * He did not own a sax himself until he was 17 years old... - Source?
 * ...his very first horn was a personal present from Jeff Clayton: a Yamaha model 62 alto sax. - Source? Also, don't use slang; "horn" isn't going to be interpreted as "saxophone" by readers who aren't already familiar with jazz culture. We also don't need to know the model he was gifted.
 * Their relationship started when Bartley came to the Vail Jazz Workshop in 2010, where the workshop instructor, Clayton himself, found out of the terrible condition which his almost unplayable horn was in, nearly crumbling apart. - Source? And once again, 86 the slang.
 * And while he tried it, he let the teen try his own. - Irrelevant. 86 this.
 * "When that saxophone got into my hands, that was that moment when everything clicked. That was the moment I realized this is what I was going to do for the rest of my life," stated Bartley. - Quotes must ALWAYS be attributed by both the text and a source that corroborates it. Thankfully, quotes can be corroborated by less-than-ideal sources provided they're not contested, but as your biggest issue is notability at the moment I would 86 this for now.
 * "From that moment, I took all influences and used my saxophone to communicate the experiences. Music has never felt labored. It never felt like something I had to do." - Quotes must also be minimal in use. Extensive quoting is a serious issue, and this quote doesn't really add anything to the article. 86 this.
 * Even before finishing his studies, he received the opportunity to perform at the Gardens Jazz Festivals in Miami, Florida... - Source?
 * ...to record professionally his music, collaborating with Melton Mustafa Sr. and Jr. - Source?
 * Eventually, in 2010, he played at the 52nd anniversary of the Grammy Awards with the Dave Mathews Band... - Source? This also looks like an attempt at notability-by-osmosis; we don't accept that.
 * ...received an award himself (the YoungArts Gold Award in Jazz)... - Source?
 * ...after appearing in the HBO special "Wynton Marsalis: A YoungArts Masterclass", in which he performed and recorded music with Marsalis. - Was he credited for this? If so, a source is strictly speaking not necessary (as the credits can verify this claim); otherwise a source is required if he went uncredited or pseudonymously. A bigger issue is that this doesn't seem to be connected to the award, and again seems to be more notability-by-osmosis. If this is not connected to the award, I would heavily recommend just 86'ing this.
 * He was then featured on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert... - While a bad source is cited here, as above if he was credited than a source isn't necessary, as the credits will verify.
 * ...continued to play with the Late Night Show's pianist Jon Batiste and the other members at the Village Vanguard. - Notability-by-osmosis claim, 86 this.
 * Later, in the Jazz Gallery Mentoring Series Bartley explored new musical genres with Dayna Stephens, performing both his and Stephens' compositions. - Notability-by-osmosis claim, 86 this. I'm going to make a blanket statement here: We do not need an exhaustive blow-by-blow of this man's career. We only need the most important parts of it. Colbert helps. Playing the Grammies helps. Most of the rest of these claims thus far have been minor things which only serve to dilute the draft and cause it to get lost in its own plot. A Wikipedia article should summarise the key points - both the zeniths and nadirs - of a subject's career. There are other websites which will be more willing to discuss the entirety of his career in excruciating detail.
 * Furthermore, in 2019, Bartley, because he had always taken inspiration from Cannonball Adderley, celebrated with both Brianna Thomas and Steve Miller the saxophonist in New York's Jazz at Lincoln Center, by playing "Cannonball Adderley and The Blues". - Irrelevant. 86 this.
 * He played at many other Jazz Festivals as well, like the Santa Lucia Jazz Festival in New York City at the Lincoln Center, venue that is directed, guided and founded by Wynton Marsalis. - Irrelevant and notability-by-osmosis. 86 this.
 * In his early childhood Bartley became interested in the popular Anime Dragon Ball Z... - Source? Also, "anime" still follows all the rules of English grammar and is not capitalised mid-sentence.
 * ...throughout middle school and high school, he started playing Japanese video games (Sonic the Hedgehog, Golden Axe), and practiced his saxophone by playing along their soundtracks... - source? I'd also argue that the specific games are irrelevant, and would have "Japanese" qualified as "Japanese-developed" (since "Japanese" alone implies the NTSC-J version of a game, not that the developer is Japanese).
 * ...he then realized the various patterns and connections of this music genres with the African-American Blues he would listen to in his childhood, identified with the stress and distress of the melodic tension. - Irrelevant. 86 this.
 * Similarities with Jazz exist, since the composers who worked on numerous video games soundtracks took inspiration and were influenced by the music genre. - Wildly irrelevant. 86 this. The article should be about Bartley, not pontificating on Masato Nakamura's or You Takeda's musical influences.
 * It has its own characteristics though, as for example its rhythm, since, as Bartley underlined in a video by Adam Neely, strictly follows the structure of Japanese phonetics: Japanese is, indeed, a monophonic language, and therefore its music must follow the same rhythmical patterns. - Are you writing an article about Bartley or a dissertation on SEGA's composers? Wildly irrelevant, 86 this.
 * An example of Bartley's Anime related projects is the Charity Single from My Hero Academia in which he featured together with over 80 other musicians worldwide, including the Japanese songwriter Yuki Hayashi, My Hero Academias' composer. - The source here is the University of Trento website. Get a different source.
 * Patrick Bartley performed with the Emmet Cohen Trio in a series of concerts, both live and through the platform of Youtube. - Source?
 * There he executed a solo on the After You've Gone standard, which became of interest by many other musicians across the web. - Source?
 * And there you have it. Part of the problem is that you go off on tangents that have little to nothing to do with Bartley, which makes the draft come across as (1) trying to make him sponge off of the notability of others and (2) an ode to classic video game composers that comes across as a BLAM. The poor sourcing is the more important of the two - bad sourcing means no article full stop. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 20:14, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

13:39:46, 19 July 2022 review of submission by Kaneil
Hi - just wondering if there's any specifics as to why this was not approved? Your time and support is very much appreciated! Kaneil (talk) 13:39, 19 July 2022 (UTC)


 * @Kaneil: yes, the decline reasons were given in the grey boxes inside that large pink box. There is also an additional comment below, which, although not a reason for declining at this time, needs to be taken into account, as it is relevant and may otherwise become a reason for declining at the next review. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:27, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
 * @Kaneil Also, details of funding and mergers don't tell us why the company is notable (click here). 71.228.112.175 (talk) 06:16, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

13:49:22, 19 July 2022 review of submission by 156.204.178.149
156.204.178.149 (talk) 13:49, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Your draft is just Word salad nothing useable or understandable sorry. Theroadislong (talk) 16:10, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

14:51:36, 19 July 2022 review of submission by Pranesh Ravikumar
Could you provide assistance and reason for not accepting the article Pranesh Ravikumar (talk) 14:51, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The decline reason is in the large pink box "submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject" It also requires independent sources. Theroadislong (talk) 16:11, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
 * @Pranesh RavikumarPlease read the general notability guideline. QiuLiming1 (talk) 20:59, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

15:44:56, 19 July 2022 review of submission by Limerickwiki22

 * The article has been declined for several reasons including copyright and duplication of content. However, I am working for the PR company on behalf of Limerick City and County Council, who are running a new campaign for Limerick Greenway. Wikipedia is inaccurately representing Limerick Greenway as The Great Southern Trail. (Limerick Greenway is solely named Limerick Greenway and is no longer associated with The Great Southern Trail.)

I am attempting to rectify this issue, and would request contact for an editor or staff member that can help us with this issue.

An editor left this comment on my article, but I am seeking assistance in replying to explain the issue. "Even if the sourcing here was OK, the content is overtly promotional. Which is hardly surprising. Given that is whole scale copy/pasted from a copyrighted primary source. We also already have an article covering this topic at Limerick Greenway > Great Southern Trail. So this is all a bit silly to be honest..."

Can you help me?

Limerickwiki22 (talk) 15:44, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The copying is a serious problem that has caused the draft to be tagged for speedy deletion. Copyright violations are a danger to Wikipedia and cannot be accepted.
 * Another problem is that you seem to be a person who is editing Wikipedia as part of your job. Wikipedia would deem you a PAID contributor and require that you disclose this connection on your user page, which does not exist yet. You fix this problem by clicking on your (currently red) username and adding a sentence like "I work for <> and Limerick City and City Council are our clients. I'm currently working on an article for Limerick Greenway at User:Limerickwiki22/sandbox."
 * Your draft included links that I think you intended to be sources. Ideally, these should be turned into inline citations so that each statement in the draft is sourced to a published, reliable source. This is going to take some work.  — jmcgnh (talk) (contribs) 16:25, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

15:47:39, 19 July 2022 review of submission by Urban Versis 32
Does AfC cover non-articles, such as Templates?

Urban Versis 32KB ⚡ (talk 15:47, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
 * , yes and looks like someone has a review in progres. Slywriter (talk) 15:49, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh you have it under review. :) Slywriter (talk) 15:50, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh ok, thanks. Urban Versis 32KB ⚡ (talk 16:05, 19 July 2022 (UTC)