Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2022 June 28

= June 28 =

00:37:39, 28 June 2022 review of draft by Sandlerj1
I was curious what more the proposed Jared Sandler page needed to be approved? I am creating it for myself and am a Major League broadcaster. It is admittedly weird creating the page for myself but any little bit of marketing helps in this industry and it was recommended that I create one since some of my peers have one. Is it just that I need to submit more articles?

Thanks

Sandlerj1 (talk) 00:37, 28 June 2022 (UTC)


 * @Sandlerj1: first and foremost, the draft needs to demonstrate that the subject is notable; this was the reason why it was declined, and the decline message and comment refer you to more information.
 * Secondly, it needs more citations, as too much of the content is currently unsupported. You must reference every material statement, as well as personal information such as DOB and family details, to a reliable, published source.
 * You should also read and understand the reasons, detailed at WP:AUTOBIO, why creating an article on yourself really isn't a good idea.
 * And last but not least, Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a marketing platform or a place to enhance your career prospects, so if those are your objectives, you're probably getting this wrong straight off the bat (pun intended). -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 05:48, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * May I ask for some advice regarding the demonstration the subject is notable? Is a verified twitter profile with 30+ K followers worthy? I cited the page on the Texas Rangers official website recognizing their broadcasters thinking that was enough...Would love some guidance...thanks Sandlerj1 (talk) 00:27, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Are there multiple in-depth, non-routine, independent sources about him written by identifiable journalists/authors and published by outlets that fact-check, disclose, correct, and retract? —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 00:36, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Would something like these two articles from the dallas morning news work? https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2015/07/11/barry-horn-s-hot-air-calling-games-was-his-calling-now-it-s-reality-for-jared-sandler/ and https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/rangers/2017/09/29/what-rangers-radio-guy-jared-sandler-thought-of-finally-getting-to-share-the-booth-with-eric-nadel/ Sandlerj1 (talk) 14:44, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

01:46:29, 28 June 2022 review of submission by Juan88888888
Hi please kindly check my edit, I have a link on information regarding the person within the article I made. Juan88888888 (talk) 01:46, 28 June 2022 (UTC)


 * @Juan88888888 this draft has been rejected and will not be considered further. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 05:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

07:49:46, 28 June 2022 review of submission by 2405:205:C968:9457:AC30:3E06:D1B5:8D37
2405:205:C968:9457:AC30:3E06:D1B5:8D37 (talk) 07:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

08:15:44, 28 June 2022 review of submission by AltPerumal2022
FIRST TELL US WHY YOU ARE REQUESTING HELP ON THE LINE BELOW THIS LINE. Take as many lines as you need. -->}} We have initated the process of creating profile by the lack of time. It would be helpful if we get verified as soon as possible.

AltPerumal2022 (talk) 08:15, 28 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Literally none of the sources I can read are usable, being either uncredited bios or profile sites. Even assuming the Malayalam source is acceptable it cannot itself support an article. We are an encyclopaedia, not social media. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 19:40, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Literally none of the sources I can read are usable, being either uncredited bios or profile sites. Even assuming the Malayalam source is acceptable it cannot itself support an article. We are an encyclopaedia, not social media. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 19:40, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

08:17:48, 28 June 2022 review of submission by AltPerumal2022

FIRST TELL US WHY YOU ARE REQUESTING HELP ON THE LINE BELOW THIS LINE. Take as many lines as you need. -->}}

AltPerumal2022 (talk) 08:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

08:27:50, 28 June 2022 review of submission by AltPerumal2022

FIRST TELL US WHY YOU ARE REQUESTING HELP ON THE LINE BELOW THIS LINE. Take as many lines as you need. -->}}

AltPerumal2022 (talk) 08:27, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

08:45:18, 28 June 2022 review of submission by

FIRST TELL US WHY YOU ARE REQUESTING HELP ON THE LINE BELOW THIS LINE. Take as many lines as you need. -->}} We have already started it very late. So wishes to complete it as soon as possible.

AltPerumal2022 (talk) 08:45, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

08:50:00, 28 June 2022 review of submission by

FIRST TELL US WHY YOU ARE REQUESTING HELP ON THE LINE BELOW THIS LINE. Take as many lines as you need. -->}} Hi please kindly check my edit, I have a link on information regarding the person within the article I made.

AltPerumal2022 (talk) 08:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

08:52:20, 28 June 2022 review of submission by

FIRST TELL US WHY YOU ARE REQUESTING HELP ON THE LINE BELOW THIS LINE. Take as many lines as you need. -->}} Hi please kindly check my edit, I have a link on information regarding the person within the article I made.

AltPerumal2022 (talk) 08:52, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

08:56:07, 28 June 2022 review of draft by Roy Fitz
I have looked at the review and I'm not sure how it can be fixed. There are reputable sources already there. There is no peacocking.

Everything is factual and backed up by sources of information like the Government of Australia Honours database, the Australian Music Hall of Fame etc.

Roy Fitz (talk) 08:56, 28 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi @Roy Fitz, thanks for asking a question here at the help desk, here's some point of view issues I've noticed in the article:
 * "shows his commitment to using his talents as a musician and writer to promote health and humanitarian causes" sounds like a non neutral point of view and original research
 * "worked to support the people of East Timor" generally quite broad claim without direct citation, should probably be removed
 * "actively involved" sounds a bit like editorializing
 * Other general issues include:
 * Biographies of living persons require that all material challenged or likely to be challenged or otherwise contentious be supported by a reliable source, source 4 is questionable in terms of reliability (can't access, questionable name) and source five is definitely not reliable. A lot additional sentences in paragraphs four, five and six does not seem to be supported by any source.
 * Hopefully this is enough feedback for now, good luck with your article and feel free to post additional questions here.  Just ' i ' yaya  09:16, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

09:24:29, 28 June 2022 review of submission by OMGSiddharth
Hi please kindly check my edit, I have a link on information regarding the person within the article I made. OMGSiddharth (talk) 09:24, 28 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Your issues are the exact same ones as AltPerumal2022's above. Your sources are either profiles or uncredited articles, and the sole non-English source cannot save the article by itself. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 19:43, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Request on 09:28:41, 28 June 2022 for assistance on AfC submission by LendreyL8
This article two times declined for submission I need help for submission please assist to this article

LendreyL8 (talk) 09:28, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * We require independent sources, not his own website. Theroadislong (talk) 09:46, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

09:44:03, 28 June 2022 review of draft by Bethcarey
Hello Reviewer/s - I would like to add a couple of images to my draft article of deceased Australian pioneer and conservationist Kate Cowle. But I can't tell how to legitimately copy/save an image from Google images and include in the article. How do I do this within the license rules and what is the process? thankyou!

Bethcarey (talk) 09:44, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The answer is that you don't! Almost all images on Google are copyrighted. Images have no useful benefit for drafts. Theroadislong (talk) 09:47, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

11:05:50, 28 June 2022 review of draft by TrooperTru2022
I submitted an article for the Show-Ya album "Aurora" some time in June, and it was declined twice. What can I do to improve the article so it can be approved?

TrooperTru2022 (talk) 11:05, 28 June 2022 (UTC)


 * @TrooperTru2022: did you read any of the decline messages? This was declined both times because it doesn't show that the album is notable either per WP:GNG or WP:NALBUM. Merely existing is no reason for inclusion in a global encyclopaedia. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:12, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Request on 11:24:54, 28 June 2022 for assistance on AfC submission by Priyanka Dehradun
11:24:54, 28 June 2022 review of submission by Priyanka Dehradun

Priyanka Dehradun (talk) 11:24, 28 June 2022 (UTC)


 * @Priyanka Dehradun: what is your question?
 * We don't accept press releases, advertorials, or other similar promotional content as sources, in case that's what you're wondering. Hence, there is nothing to indicate that this company is notable. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:41, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi DoubleGrazing I take Reference from Pristyn Care. So Please help me out How can I make Contribution on wikipedia, which type of reference wikipedia accept ? Priyanka Dehradun (talk) 12:10, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't use other articles as yardstick. There will be always some completely unreferenced article out there that violates every rule in the book, and if we use that as the example, we can just ignore the entire rule book. Instead you need to ensure that your article complies with the relevant guidelines, starting with the general notability guideline WP:GNG. This requires significant coverage in multiple independent and reliable secondary sources. Your draft only cites sources that are based on the company's press releases or sponsored content, and therefore not independent. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:21, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

13:37:30, 28 June 2022 review of submission by EmilyBertagnolli
I have been working on this article for several months and edited from feedback that assured I was adding notable secondary sources where the person I was writing about was not just mentioned. The most recent reviewer told me he "was not sure why the person I was writing about was notable." I wrote him the message below:

"Hi,

You recently commented to me: Comment: Not clear what actually makes her notable? Theroadislong (talk) 15:57, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

So I look up what qualifies as notable and she has several articles written about her in reliable secondary sources (TIME, Conde Nast, People, Health Digest, etc.) about her as a Peloton Instructor, Dancer, and business owner.

What makes her any less notable than these Peloton instructors that have published articles? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jess_King https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_D%27Ercole

When you look at the Peloton Page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peloton_Interactive), there are several instructors that have linked articles. I just don't understand what makes my article less relevant/notable than others that were approved.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!"

He wrote back that he could be wrong and I should message this help desk thread.

EmilyBertagnolli (talk) 13:37, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Being a “a caregiver to her mother” designing “a collection of 90s style jeans” documenting her life on her blog, signing with United Talent Agency and developing recipes with plant-based food company Kite Hill is all very interesting but really not anything that makes her notable? Theroadislong (talk) 14:44, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * She is notable for being a lead Peloton instructor and known fitness instructor. EmilyBertagnolli (talk) 14:01, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * You are just listing off her lowest accolades and not acknowledging what makes her notable. "A lead instructor at Peloton and founder of the wellness brand Live Learn Lovewell" is what makes her notable. Given that there are several reliable secondary sources written on that including TIME, how is that not notable? EmilyBertagnolli (talk) 16:25, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * You also told me to contact the help desk yet you are the one replying to me? How do I get someone else to help? EmilyBertagnolli (talk) 16:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Notability, the way it is defined at Wikipedia, means that multiple sources that have no connection to the topic have published about that topic at some depth. There are a couple of sources that are borderline OK, but they are interviews with her – I don't see any independent and secondary sources in the draft. Being a lead instructor at some gym (presumably Peloton Interactive) and the founder of a (non-notable) "wellness brand" are not grounds for notability, and I'm afraid that reading Draft:Emma Lovewell, she comes across as a competent, enthusiastic, but run-of-the-mill businesswoman. As for How do I get someone else to help? – editors (including yourself) decide where, and what, and how much, they want to do at Wikipedia. You've asked for help here, and so any editor might choose to respond – or not. It is not a "help desk" like you might find at a company, with professional staff who are employed to answer questions, but like everything else here, it's run by volunteers, for volunteers. --bonadea contributions talk 17:07, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

16:05:24, 28 June 2022 review of submission by XiNevett
Anthony Black (basketball)

Are the references I listed unreliable? I believe that this article is useful. It would be really helpful if you informed me on the issue(s) with the article.

XiNevett (talk) 16:05, 28 June 2022 (UTC)


 * @XiNevett: you seem to have moved this draft into the main space, so why do you now come and ask if the references are unreliable? Technically, this is no longer an AfC matter.
 * Of course, the fact that you've left Draft:Anthony Black in the draft space, means that it's also an AfC matter — but that's not what your question was referring to.
 * Could you clarify, please? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Request on 18:57:31, 28 June 2022 for assistance on AfC submission by Awb84
I need help creating a Wikipedia page for Donald E. Biederman, a renowned entertainment lawyer and educator. However, my article submission was denied and the article was not created. It was denied because apparently there wasn't significant enough coverage of my grandfather, however one of his books has been featured in over 80 law schools. How do I sort this out?

Awb84 (talk) 18:57, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I made some improvements and added two sources. Since you are related to the subject, you have what's called a conflict of interest, and as such, should make future edit requests on the draft talk page rather than doing it yourself. See Simple conflict of interest edit request. TechnoTalk (talk) 19:39, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for the help! I really appreciate it, would you be able t add a few more things to the article. Could you add some of the honors listed in this: https://prabook.com/web/mobile/#!profile/916696
 * That link mentions how he was Entertainment Lawyer of the year. And also could you add his picture. Here is where his picture is locted: https://www.swlaw.edu/curriculum/biederman-entertainment-media-law-institute
 * if you scroll down you will see the picture.
 * And could you please indicate that he received his B.A. from Cornell and J.D. from Harvard in the side bar on the right.
 * Thank you,
 * Alex Awb84 (talk) 21:51, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * We cannot add his picture without being dead-certain that it's freely-licenced, so that particular request is a nonstarter. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 22:08, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * can you add the other things? Awb84 (talk) 22:14, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * please? How do you know it's not freely-licensed ? Awb84 (talk) 22:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Per Berne, copyright is automatic and all-rights-reserved on everything that has been created unless the work explicitly uses an alternative copyright licence (hence the CC-By-SA 3.0 notice at the footer of all Wikipedia pages). I have to assume, in the absence of any information on the copyright of the image or on the page itself, that the image is under full copyright (again, alternative licences must be explicitly used). As to the rest, Prabook looks like a worthless source and we cannot will not add any biographical claims that are likely to be challenged without a source that corroborates them. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 00:02, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * where did you go? I would really appreciate some more of your help, it was greatly appreciated! Awb84 (talk) 23:29, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I went to the store to get some lunch. Now that I'm back, I'm looking over your sources - and I am not impressed:
 * We can't use https://variety.com/2002/scene/people-news/donald-e-biederman-1117871589/ (unknown provenance). Generic byline; who actually wrote this?
 * The Google Books cite is worthless for notability (connexion to subject); he wrote the book.
 * We can't use https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-2002-08-15-0208150348-story.html for the exact same reasons we can't use the Variety source.
 * No comment on the PDF, except to say that if he wrote anything in it, it's worthless for notability.
 * https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-aug-14-me-biederman14-story.html is literally the only usable source you have.
 * One source cannot in and of itself save the article. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 00:10, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * that was an excpetionally uncool way of telling me this Awb84 (talk) 00:27, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't sugarcoat it when I'm assessing sources. Better to give you a dose of reality. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 00:39, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I have a lighter touch when providing feedback, and there's more nuance here than appears at first glance. The Baltimore Sun, Variety and the journal PDF showing the review of the book can indeed be used to source information. Where the apparent disconnect lies is that the subject also needs to demonstrate notability. You can accept info as being reliable if it's in a reliable source, while at the same time being of the opinion that the sources don't make the subject notable. Any obituary in a major paper, author byline or not, is reliable. Just how notable that is, is a matter of opinion. Indeed, OUR names will never show up there, despite our heroic editing efforts. The PDF is an excerpt from an independent journal with a review of the book. It sources the book, and helps its notability, thus contributing to the author's notability. So we are inching closer to demonstrating notability, but we're not there yet. You may want to read WP:GNG and WP:RS. TechnoTalk (talk) 01:24, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Could you help lead me to get that finishing touch to notability? If there he is related to Sophia Karp does provide notability? If he received a letter from Ruth Bader Ginsburg after his death who knew him does that mean notability? Awb84 (talk) 01:56, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Notability comes from what reliable independent published sources say about him and his work. His relations and letters he received unfortunately don't help. Upon second glance, the obituaries all look like they are working from the same syndicated content, with similar phrasing, lessening their value. Is there any coverage of the Biederman Institute? 19:57, 29 June 2022 (UTC)TechnoTalk (talk)
 * Hi TechnoTalk, here is from Bloomberg talking about how prestigious the Biederman award is:
 * https://www.bloomberg.com/press-releases/2012-10-26/mitchell-silberberg-knupp-s-russell-j-frackman-receives-inaugural-donald-e-biederman-legacy-award-from-southwestern-law Awb84 (talk) 23:59, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
 * And also here is Hollywood reporter ranking Southwestern in the top 10 of schools for entertainment law. The summer study in London is through the Biederman Institute.
 * https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/top-11-schools-entertainment-law/southwestern-law-school-3/
 * https://www.swlaw.edu/curriculum/study-abroad-summer-session/summer-abroad Awb84 (talk) 00:18, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

19:26:54, 28 June 2022 review of draft by BuffaloBob
I have made significant revisions to the draft article which was rejected on 6 June 2022 by user:Idoghor_Melody. Idodhor suggested that I get a second opinion. See discussion at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Idoghor_Melody/Archive_2#RE_Draft:Decatur_Tribune I would like your input before I resubmit the article.BuffaloBob (talk) 19:26, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

BuffaloBob (talk) 19:26, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

20:26:29, 28 June 2022 review of draft by History Buff1239ubj
Can someone please improve the article so it is not written like an essay but still retaining the information

History Buff1239ubj (talk) 20:26, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I might suggest that you edit the existing article Dreadnought. 331dot (talk) 20:29, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Why not edit the existing article instead of writing and trying to push thru a research essay that wouldn't be approved in any event because an article on the topic already exists? —<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i>  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 20:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I thought it would be nice to have a short simple article on the subject. thank you for informing me that it would not be accepted. History Buff1239ubj (talk) 20:40, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * You could see if the Simple English Wikipedia could use an article about that topic, though even there it could not be an essay. 331dot (talk) 22:26, 28 June 2022 (UTC)