Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2022 March 27

= March 27 =

05:58:46, 27 March 2022 review of submission by Anthonypontek
Anthonypontek (talk) 05:58, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

06:11:48, 27 March 2022 review of submission by Anthonypontek
06:11:48, 27 March 2022 review of submission by Anthonypontek

Because I did not meet the requirements of Wikipedia.

Anthonypontek (talk) 06:11, 27 March 2022 (UTC)


 * No sources, no article, no debate. We're also not interested in what you have to say about yourself. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 07:30, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

06:34:14, 27 March 2022 review of submission by Ayubsaifi6767
Ayubsaifi6767 (talk) 06:34, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

07:05:57, 27 March 2022 review of draft by Loveneetsingh123
This is regarding declined draft of Advocate General anmol rattan sidhu. Reason - Large section of content unsourced

We will surely work on that. One thing I would like to bring to attention here that we did added number of references but many of those were infact deleted by other moderators as they were used to source info added in content.

Please guides what kind of references we can add further to source the info added in content. And how much should we add. we have 100s of those as the person in question is AG of Punjab government and hold very high position in government. Im his legal advisor to Punjab government and we can furnish government proofs as well in form of documents to proove that this is fully authentic and genuine request of page creation. Please let us know whom and where should we submit those documents to support our case.

Please suggest that, Do you mean references like related to his schooling, or legal positions held in the past ? need to be sourced too with references? Is it something that we should add so that the article is accepted. We added references for his current position as Advocate general in punjab government only. I would be very thankful for your help and guidence. Loveneetsingh123 (talk) 07:05, 27 March 2022 (UTC)


 * We're looking for sources that are in-depth, non-routine, independent news articles with identifiable authors that are published in outlets with editorial oversight that fact-checks, discloses, corrects, and retracts. Government documents do not fit that description. And literally every biographical claim that could be challenged MUST be cited to a source with the characteristics I detailed above. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 07:29, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for quick response Jeske. I editeds the draft and added independent news articles as well as web sources that cite the facts mentioned in the content mentioned in the articles. Morover all the refernces cited and added are genuine and well established BIG MEDIA OUTLETS in India. Please let me know should i resubmit draft now for consideration or should i wait a bit. Loveneetsingh123 (talk) 07:35, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Also another point i would like to add that references i added fully comply with the wikipedia reliable sources guidelines and are not any kind of self opinionated ur user generated content in any way. In fact they are official references / websites that prooves that the content source is fully authentic and true in nature as mentioned. What more authenticity required could be possible above that :) Loveneetsingh123 (talk) 07:39, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Refer to User:Jéské Couriano/Decode.
 * For your sources...
 * http://diprpunjab.gov.in/?q=content/advocate-general-anmol-rattan-singh-sidhu-assumes-charge is useless for notability (gov't document). As I just said, government documents are considered to be primary sources at best.
 * https://www.firstpost.com/india/anmol-rattan-sidhu-appointed-as-advocate-general-of-punjab-10471841.html is useless for notability (too sparse). Subject is only mentioned once in an incredibly short article. While WP:NPOL is a thing, it doesn't apply to government appointees - only those who were elected - and so you can't rely on it here. The article also has a role byline and is unusable, full stop, on that basis alone; role bylines generally imply churnalism.
 * We can't use https://www.india.com/news/india/anmol-rattan-singh-sidhu-assumes-charge-as-punjab-ag-says-will-take-re-1-as-legal-fees-5293651/ (unknown provenance). Role byline; we do not substitute the editor for the author. Who actually wrote this?
 * " " " https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/chandigarh-news/anmol-rattan-sidhu-appointed-punjab-advocate-general-101647715968854.html (" "). Role byline. Who wrote this?
 * I will not assess https://theprint.in/india/new-punjab-ag-takes-charge-pledges-to-donate-salary-for-drug-abuse-rehab/880118/ - Provide the actual ANI source and not a republication.
 * https://punjabharyanahighcourtbar.in/executive-committee/past/ is useless for notability (too sparse, gov't document). Name in a government listing.
 * We can't use https://www.freepressjournal.in/india/who-is-anmol-rattan-sidhu-all-you-need-to-know-about-punjabs-new-advocate-general (unknown provenance). Role byline. Who wrote this?
 * http://bcph.co.in/list-of-members/ is useless for notability (too sparse). Portrait gallery.
 * https://advocategeneral.punjab.gov.in/?q=profile-ag is useless for notability, and this applies to the other cite from the same domain (gov't document).
 * For your article text...
 * As an experianced lawyer, He has played an instrumental role in assisting the courts in deciding important questions of law in various fields, thus contributing to the development of legal jurisprudence.[sic] - Promotional as written, if kept it requires sources and a re-write.
 * He has lectured extensively on various legal topics at different prestigious institutions and has also been frequently invited by universities, professional institutes, etc. to lecture on various areas of legal practice. - " " ", " " " " " " " "-".
 * He had the opportunity to travel to various parts of the world to learn about new cultures, legal and political systems.[...] - Eighty-six this entire paragraph; it's promotional.
 * ...he had organized the first-ever International Legal Conference in Chandigarh on September 29, 2003. - Source?
 * In the International Legal Conference, eleven countries attended, which was inaugurated by the President of India Dr APJ Abdul Kalam.[sic] - Irrelevant.
 * Anmol Rattan Sidhu was Born on May 1, 1958 (Labour Day) in a family of a farmer...[sic] - Source for the birth date?
 * ... he studied Primary education in the village school, Dabwali (now Mandi Dabwali) before shifting to Chandigarh in 1975 and enrolling at Government College, Sector-11. - Source?
 * He has one son (MR. SUVIR SIDHU, ADVOCATE) who is also an advocate and senior member of Bar Council of Punjab and Haryana Chandigarh.[sic] - Irrelevant.
 * He remained a sociopolitical student having held posts of President Students Union of Government College Sector 11, Chandigarh in 1978-79.[sic] - Source?
 * Later on he remained Additional Advocate General (Punjab & Haryana) handling various pivotal state matters. - Promotional as written and requires a source besides.
 * From 1997 onwards, Sidhu was elected as a Member of the Bar Council of Punjab and Haryana for five consecutive terms, before being elevated as chairman of the apex regulating body of lawyers in 2001-02. Promotional as written and requires sources for the consecutive terms and elevation to chairman. Note that this does not qualify him for WP:NPOL.
 * He remained a member of the Academic Council, Panjab University, Chandigarh till 1982-84. - Source?
 * A member of Advisory Committee, Chandigarh 1992 to 94.[sic] - This is a sentence fragment.
 * While practicing in the high court, he remained the president of the Punjab and Haryana High Court Bar Association eight times, the first person to be elected this many times in any High Court in the country. - Source?
 * Remained an elected member of Senate and Syndicate for a continuous period from 1990 onwards (12 years).[sic] - This is a sentence fragment and requires a source.
 * A Committee member on Development of 3rd Phase of Chandigarh from 1992-94.[sic] - " " " " " " " " ".
 * Later, he was elected as a Chairman of the Construction/Building Committee at Law Bhawan of Bar Council of Punjab and Haryana, Chandigarh from 2002-2005. - Source?
 * He was designated as a Senior Advocate in 2007 and later served as the Assistant Solicitor General of India in the year 2008 till 2014. - Source?
 * Remained as a special public prosecutor for the CBI in the Punjab and Haryana High Court during this tenure.[sic] - This is a sentence fragment and requires a source.
 * He was also awarded PARMAN PATRA by the Punjab Government in 2004 (the highest award given to a Civilian of the State in recognition of his services to the society). - Source?
 * Your sources are all crap and the article is a promotional, unsourced mess. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 08:08, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your feedback Jeske I will make sure the improvements you suggested are taken care of and will work on them. Loveneetsingh123 (talk) 08:49, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Also
 * eg as you mentioned
 * He remained a member of the Academic Council, Panjab University, Chandigarh till 1982-84 source required
 * A member of Advisory Committee, Chandigarh 1992 to 94.source required
 * Remained an elected member of Senate and Syndicate for a continuous period from 1990 onwards (12 years).source required
 * All of the above positions he held are all clearly mentioned on the official punjab government website i.e https://advocategeneral.punjab.gov.in/?q=profile-ag so thats the only source that verifies that these facts are correct,. how can i add same reference again and again to verify facts. Iam wondering how to substantiate these line by line.
 * Also you mentioned https://advocategeneral.punjab.gov.in/?q=profile-ag is useless for notability. Please i couldnot understand how it can be useless since its official government and he is the position holder of highest gov position in Punjab right now. This is the top most credible, authentic and highly authoritative source. There could not be any other reference thats more credible than this. Its like USA.gov of america website, but at state level :) I crosschecked many other similar bio pages of even persons who are less authoritative than an Advocate general and even those pages doesnt provide such kind of highly credible sources.
 * But anyways i will work on other suggestions you mentioned. Loveneetsingh123 (talk) 09:05, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The Advocate General's website is useless for notability because it is a government source, and thus a primary source. Primary sources do not help for notability a whit, and thus cannot be used to source claims that could reasonably be challenged. And "Other articles on similar topics don't cite this sort of thing" is a nonstarter; odds are those articles need edited - likely very heavily - themselves. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 18:44, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

08:32:04, 27 March 2022 review of draft by 74ox
Mohamed Abbas (talk) 08:32, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

13:19:42, 27 March 2022 review of submission by BlossomRoses
BlossomRoses (talk) 13:19, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Hello, made this article months ago and I personally think that LuckyDesigns deserves an article of his own. Did some few changes to the references and added some new words. So if anyone wants to check it then yeah.
 * The draft was rejected, meaning that it will not be considered further. 331dot (talk) 13:28, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

14:10:14, 27 March 2022 review of draft by 84.15.188.117
Dear Wikipedia, My Wikipedia page Submission about Eduard Grossman has been declined. I provided References at the bottom of the page and uploaded documents that prove the information that i wrote is real. I would like to know specifically what information is not adequately supported by reliable sources.

Thank you looking forward to your reply

Alexander Kalganov

84.15.188.117 (talk) 14:10, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * There are still large unsourced sections of the draft. 331dot (talk) 14:20, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Aside from the three book sources, which I'd assume just comment the subjects name, the other sources don't seem very reliable - what exactly are these? Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:21, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * These are articles from exhibitions catalogs about him. How i can approve them as a reliable source? 84.15.182.227 (talk) 14:11, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

16:54:48, 27 March 2022 review of submission by Jaykey21
Can you tell me what is needed to get the page approved. I have other references if needed can you tell me is there a number of references needed? Jaykey21 (talk) 16:54, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * , See WP:NCORP for guideline to articles about corporations. this guide may also be useful. Finally please see WP:COI and WP:PAID if you have any connections to the company. In short, existence is not notability  and wikipedia needs independent secondary sources to establish notability.Slywriter (talk) 17:18, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

18:37:21, 27 March 2022 review of draft by Dragonflymagnet
I need a quick review for newly submitted page "Steve Zipperman for Arizona LD1". This page is time sensitive to our primary election on Aug. 2, 2022.

Thanks!

The Dragonfly Magnet aka: Kimberly Martin

Dragonflymagnet (talk) 18:37, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * You have submitted a blank sandbox User:Dragonflymagnet/sandbox? Theroadislong (talk) 18:47, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * If you meant to submit Draft:Steve Zipperman for Arizona LD1 then be advised that it would be rejected with no sources. Theroadislong (talk) 18:48, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Which I have request speedy deletion of as Wikipedia is not for publishing a campaign ad. Also as you are connected with the candidate or campaign, please see WP:COI and WP:PAID. If he is notable on his own, he may merit a wikipedia article, but you will need to make proper disclosures, include references and understand that once a page is published, no one has control or ownership of it.Slywriter (talk) 18:53, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

19:38:58, 27 March 2022 review of submission by DCLawwyer
{{Lafc|username=DCLawwyer|ts=19:38:58, 27 March 2022|page= Theo Alcántara

Dear Teahouse:

User:Numberguy6 declined Draft:Theo_Alc%C3%A1ntara The reason was "Written like a résumé/CV." with a referral to 'What Wikipedia is not'

1. There is no rule in 'What Wikipedia is not' that supports "résumé/CV" as a ground for refusal. Is it possible that the rejection is due to a personal preference that exists in no written rule?

2. The closest item in What Wikipedia is not is "Wikipedia is not a means of promotion." Promotion is about the future, and uses comparative adjectives about the subject of promotion. Biography is about the past. The article is just historical facts, with no compariative adjectives about Mr. Alcantra. Historical facts are not "promotion." Or rather, any definition of the word "promotion" that embraces a catalog of the notable historical accomplishments of a person is not a useful definition of "promotion" and conflicts with the requirement of "notability."

3. Whatever standard NumberGuy6 applied, is it being applied in a rational, context-sensitive way? Mr Alcántara is an orchestra/opera conductor. For most musicians, life is a series of one-night gigs, hoping to get lucky and land one of the few permanent appointments. A 35-year career of permanent appointments is a real rarity! It's that series of appointments and one-night gigs that makes Mr Alcántara notable, and that any reader of this article cares about.

4. This is standard biographical form for a musician. For example, the information in Henri Sigfridsson is the same in character -- prizes, performances, etc. The only real difference is that Mr Alcantara has retired after a long career, while Mr Sigfridsson is young, so his article is shorter. Back in the days of print, Nicolas Slonimsky's Baker's_Biographical_Dictionary_of_Musicians was the standard biographical compilation. Its entry for Mr Alcántara is here  If that's the standard biographical entry form for the standard biographical compilation of musicians, why would it be inappropriate for Wikipedia?

5. An uninformative rejection is not helpful. How would one fix the article, if there's nothing in 'What Wikipedia is not' that directly applies? What does one do next? (And I suspect that if you thought about what to do next, you'd convince yourself that there is no notable "next step" except to accept the article.)

Thank you

DCLawwyer (talk) 19:40, 27 March 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DCLawwyer (talk • contribs) 19:38, 27 March 2022 (UTC)


 * {{ping|DCLawwyer}} In order:
 * WP:RESUME, while an essay, both explains why we don't accept cirricula vitae and provides links to the various policies that preclude writing them on Wikipedia. We also have zero tolerance for malicious compliance or pettifogging.
 * Have you never heard of revisionism? It's very much possible to be promotional about events in the past - look at any random Eastern European, Balkans, Armenian, Azerbaijani, or Israel/Palestine article (and their related sanctions to kerb the nationalistic revisionism). Saying that an article can't be promotional or non-neutral because it's about events in the past assumes facts not in evidence and is at best sophistic.
 * Do not presume what Wikipedia's audience - the lay person - cares about. If a claim is unsourced, they'll only care insofar as to complain about it being unsourced. As for context-sensitivity, as far as I am aware we do not have a specific notability guideline for orchestral conductors, so "context-sensitive" is an impossibility - there's simply no alternate standard to apply.
 * As explained above, conductors and musicians do not use the same notability criteria (again, conductors do not have a specific notability guideline), so the criteria for musicians cannot be applied here. You would need to prove he meets the musician notability criteria without relying at all on his career as a conductor.
 * You might be able to see an answer if you weren't so focused on pounding the table. But since you requested it: Your article needs to be an encyclopaedia article, not an unconnected series of lists that is effectively a cirriculum vitae. If you can't figure out how to write an encyclopaedia article, you shouldn't be editing Wikipedia. The fact I need to spell this out explicitly hints that you're not after help, you're after an answer you want. We will not mortgage our standards for the sake of your ego. —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  {{sup| a little blue Bori }} 20:29, 27 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Dear User:Jéské Couriano


 * Now I'm even more confused.


 * 1. WP:RESUME admonishes to not post your own resume.  That's irrelevant here, isn't it.


 * 2. Yes, of course I've heard of revisionism.  That's irrelevant here too, isn't it.


 * 3. Jéské Couriano writes "If a claim is unsourced...."  That isn't relevant here, is it.  I footnoted essentially every single fact.


 * 4. "You would need to prove he meets the musician notability criteria without relying at all on his career as a conductor." Where is that in a written Wikirule?  I doubt that it exists, because it would be irrational to exclude the very subject matter that makes a person notable.


 * Before you question whether I can write an article, you might want to take a look at my other contributions.


 * If anything comes clear from my edit history and this article, I'm making good faith effort to contribute where I have genuine expertise, and a good faith effort to follow the rules as they're written.  I'm making a good faith effort to honestly engage in this conversation on a rational basis based on the rules s they're written, without injecting irrelevancies.  May I ask the same from you, Jéské Couriano (and any other reviewer that participates)?


 * Theroadislong gave me a useful comment based on an ascertainable principle, and I have revised accordingly.


 * DCLawwyer (talk) 03:51, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't believe a single source is actually useable to establish notability. Discogs is not a reliable source. The three symphony articles are primary sources and only prove existence, same for Ann arbor. thebiogrpahy.us is 404. Eusko appears to allow anyone to submit. All that leaves is encyclopedia.com which is unclear on its sourcing.  In short, besides not being written in an encyclopedic tone, notability is not established per WP:GNG and WP:N. It would be best to identify WP:THREE independent secondary sources to establish notability.Slywriter (talk) 13:45, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

22:20:29, 27 March 2022 review of submission by 42.201.140.50
42.201.140.50 (talk) 22:20, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * You don't ask a question, but your draft was rejected, meaning that it will not be considered further. 331dot (talk) 22:31, 27 March 2022 (UTC)