Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2023 July 20

= July 20 =

11:00, 20 July 2023 review of submission by 89.216.142.177
Give advice 89.216.142.177 (talk) 11:00, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Well, since you ask so nicely... my advice is to drop this subject and find something else to write about. This draft has been rejected and will therefore not be considered further. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:03, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

12:36, 20 July 2023 review of submission by 31.146.234.210
I would like to link this draft article to already existing German version. 31.146.234.210 (talk) 12:36, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The interlanguage links can only be added once the draft has been accepted, as they link published articles only. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:54, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

13:51, 20 July 2023 review of submission by Gflew
My recent submission for a new page was rejected for using Ancestry.com as a reference for census data. However, when I go to the National Archives page titled "Search Census Records Online and Other Resources" at https://www.archives.gov/research/census/online-resources, it refers me to Ancestry.com, FamilySearch.org or Fold3.com. And for UK records at https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/census-records/#4-where-to-access-and-how-to-search-the-censuses it says that the on-line versions of their data is provided by Ancestry.com and Findmypast.co.uk. These sites provide scanned copies of the original documents and I have satisfied myself that, while the transcribed data is not 100% correct, it is accurate enough for providing a presentation of where the surname Flew existed in history. I have also researched the original documents and realize that the transcription contains flaws (no pun intended). However, I have limited my data to Flew records only with some few exceptions where I know that they names were wrongly transcribed because the were in fact my ancestors.

If I cannot use the Census' recommended data source, what source is acceptable? Gflew (talk) 13:51, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Gflew: there may indeed be some reliable data on Ancestry.com, but that doesn't get around the fact that it is a primary source, and largely user-generated, and as such not considered reliable (see WP:ANCESTRY). The other sources cited in your draft, incidentally, aren't much better.
 * You can find information about what constitutes a reliable source at WP:RS, and can check specific sources at WP:RSP. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:02, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Pardon my total confusion. After reading the definition of secondary source, it would appear to me that the Census data presented by Ancestry.com is at least one step removed from the event of the taking and analyzing of the data by the US government. And it contains both interpretation in the transcription of the data to digital format as well as analysis in the process. And the transcribed data is subject to scrutiny by others. I have, in fact, reported corrections to data based on my knowledge of my family history. And at External links/Perennial websites you state that Ancestry data is Sometimes acceptable as an external link or reliable source. It states that "Official documents...from reliable sources [in this case, the US Census] can be used provided the restrictions discussed in WP:PRIMARY and WP:BLPPRIMARY are obeyed". Specifically, point 3 under Primary sources referring to "descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source" is applicable to my analysis and presentation of the data. So while your policy may be that Ancestry.com is generally considered unreliable, you recognize that there are specific areas where the data is reliable. If you are not familiar with the catalog of census data in Ancestry.com, perhaps you should consult someone who is. If you are familiar with it, I would be glad to discuss the efficacy of the transcription of the data by Ancestry vs that of the National Archives. Gflew (talk) 18:19, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Gflew: okay, I will happily leave this for someone else to deal with. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 18:29, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia uses FamilySearch (same status as Ancestry) at Template:Cite United States census. So how do I go about kicking this up the food chain to get someone to rule on the use of Ancestry for census data? Gflew (talk) 18:36, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

19:41, 20 July 2023 review of submission by Premalatharaju
I donot understand the reason for decline Premalatharaju (talk) 19:41, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


 * What specifically about it do you not understand? I will note that you need to place references in line with the information that they support, see Referencing for beginners. 331dot (talk) 19:49, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

22:28, 20 July 2023 review of submission by Jjcoste2
Editing on "source", under the category of External Links, I cannot get his website to appear as a link. Is using a persons website not allowed anymore, or do I have another issue? Jjcoste2 (talk) 22:28, 20 July 2023 (UTC)