Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2024 July 5

= July 5 =

10:39, 5 July 2024 review of submission by RedMacryon
This page is already existent in German Wikipedia. I have taken the liberty to spend the time verifiying the accuracy of the information present on the german version of the page. Then I tried to do a translation via the draft, but it got declined, since I was unable to provide an interlanguage link. If I try to translate an english page into german that works no problem but for some reason translating any non-eglish wikipedia pages into english is a pain. And please do not bring up the argument that it is unnecesary due to being about a german speaking nation, there are refugees and asylum seekers here who do NOT speak german and would probably also want to look up information about government ministries. RedMacryon (talk) 10:39, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * After re-reading my text I have realized that my tone sounds quite harsh. I just wanted to quickly comment to clarify that I am merely confused as to how to correctly make such an interlanguage link work and why it is noticeably different to do this in english compared to german wikipedia. Furthemore another small issue is the fact that most sources of this topic would be primary sources (from the Austrian Government) and therefore mostly in german. My assumption is this might throw the "notability" and "external sources" part, but these are governmental departments of a recognized nation state so, how does this affect it? RedMacryon (talk) 10:48, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Your draft was not declined "since I was unable to provide an interlanguage link": that would be a complete irrelevance. Your draft was declined because it does not contain even one citation.
 * In English Wikipedia, an article is a summary of what is said in several independent, reliable source, that is all. If you do not cite the sources, a reader or reviewer has no way of verifying that its contents are correct.
 * Every citation should be inline (see WP:REFB), and to a reliable source. User-generated sources such as wikis (including Wikipedia) are almost never regarded as reliable. ColinFine (talk) 11:02, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Since I am attempting to do a translation of another already existent page on wikipedia, and given that the page already contains enough credible sourcing to be verified, would it be an issue if certain sources which I would provide overlap with the source of the to be translated page?
 * Of course I will also try to find additional sources which are in english but given the topic I assume that some of the information I provide would still only be available in german, is this allowed/useful?
 * I was not aware that the translation aspect of writing an article was to be declared AFTER finalizing the article in the languge I am translating into. The ressources explaining that seemingly must have confused me or somehow not specified that enough RedMacryon (talk) 12:09, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, sources in foreign languages can be used, as long as they support the statements that cite them. The German article you're translating doesn't cite any sources though, so what did you mean by given that the page already contains enough credible sourcing to be verified?   [[User:CanonNi ]]  (talk • contribs) 12:15, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Well since this is the case would it be arguable that it does NOT have enough credible sourcing to justify verification? If yes, how did it get published in the first place?
 * I do know that certain sub-pages it links to such as the separate ministries themselves do contain sources but even given that it is surprising. RedMacryon (talk) 20:50, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, to be honest, I don't know how dewiki editors kept the article. It was created back in 2016, and if it was submitted here on the English Wikipedia today, it would almost certainly be declined as it is completely unsourced.   [[User:CanonNi ]]  (talk • contribs) 01:40, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay alright. Sorry if I sounded beligerent in any way I was just genuinely confused on whats going on.
 * I will try to (when time permits) write an improved version of the page I tried to submit (incl. Citations ofc) and maybe while I am at it add some sources to the germany version.
 * Thank you for taking the time RedMacryon (talk) 08:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @RedMacryon: why are you assuming this was declined for lack of interlanguage links? That's not a reason to decline anything, and if you mean those article-level links (listed in the language menu), those shouldn't even be added until after the article is published. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:59, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That kind of explains why it was not possible to add those and also is kind of confusing since the help page regarding translating an article in wikipedia does say it has to be done before publishing (is there an alternative help page that says different or is this language specific). I made the mistaken assumption that it was necesary to publish the page (instead of leaving it a Draft, I am aware it was not cited yet, I had inteded to still do that) in order to add a link between the translation and the original language wiki article, which then turned out to still not be possible. RedMacryon (talk) 12:12, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @RedMacryon: ah okay, now I know what you mean. The help page (WP:HOWTRANS) says you must attribute the original (non-English) article as the source, and to provide a 'courtesy link' to it in the edit summary (rather than linking to it via the languages menu, as I thought you meant). Yes, that should indeed be done when you first create the draft, and not wait until it gets published. But failing to do it still wouldn't cause for the draft to be declined. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:58, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @RedMacryon I tend to recommend translated page on the talk page. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 19:42, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Alright thank you for that RedMacryon (talk) 20:49, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

12:39, 5 July 2024 review of submission by Rani147
Hello sir ,Is there something wrong with writing my article? If there is a mistake, please correct it. Then I will benefit. Rani147 (talk) 12:39, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * @Rani147: this draft has been rejected, and will therefore not be considered further. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:53, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Rani147 You will benefit by understanding WP:NACTOR 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:15, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

14:09, 5 July 2024 review of submission by Natieboi
Hi, very simple question, how do i make my draft better? He says that there are two sources with an unknown amount of reliability, I think both sources are pretty reliable, and i argued my reasons here ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Natieboi#Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation:_S%C3%BCleyman_Ulu%C3%A7ay_(June_28) ) but he as not responded. I also can't find any more sources on this guy, i don't know why im talking about this here as im not sure anyone can really help me with this. Thanks Natieboi (talk) 14:09, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * @Natieboi: the first source is a close primary one (the website of the municipality of which he is the mayor), the other doesn't really support anything in this draft and doesn't even mention him, therefore neither of them contributes anything towards notability per WP:GNG. You need to find more and better sources to satisfy the GNG standard, and that is therefore how to make your draft better. If such sources cannot be found, as you say, then it isn't possible to publish this draft. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:18, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

14:56, 5 July 2024 review of submission by Simon Tuliameni
I'm requesting my article to be uploaded, because the person i wrote about it a Namibian artist and he is still in the Music industry, in Namibian music soon he will be one at the top. His Name Is Wessie Hastings. Simon Tuliameni (talk) 14:56, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Your submission has been rejected and is not subject to further consideration. For the future, I would suggest reading up on our policies and guidelines, such as wp:musicbio and wp:gng. Zingarese talk  ·  contribs  (please OOUI icon userAdd-ltr.svg mention me on reply&#59; thanks!) 15:17, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Give this subject a few more months or years, and once enough reliable sources and accolades come in, we can then revisit his case. (Dropping in a related link, Music of Namibia, in the meantime; par for the course with similar African-based topics, that field is apparently underrepresented here on WP.) --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 17:15, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

17:01, 5 July 2024 review of submission by Mrtony77
This draft was turned down for lack of citations. I'm not sure what in the article is not supported by a citation. The photo is substatiated by his obituary. The awards are supported by his photo. His published articles are cited to the journals which published them and a list hosted by Google Scholar. While there is more to add in terms of his career and academic path, I don't see anything lacking a citation in what's included at this point. Mrtony77 (talk) 17:01, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * We need more than "look at the photo" for the medals. You need citations for those per WP:BLP (which applies here as the subject only died recently). "was a colonel in the United States Army who served as a physician specializing in clinical pathology for the United States Army Medical Corps." also needs cites. —Jéské Couriano v^&lowbar;^v  threads critiques 17:15, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hello, and thank you for the feedback. I looked at many profiles for U.S. military officers living and dead and saw none having any citations for their awards. David K. MacEwen is an example. As far as I can find online, there is no comprehensive list of all recipients of all U.S. military awards. WP:BLP likewise has no specific requirement regarding their citation. His rank, branch of service and membership in the US Army Medic Corp are also all substantiated by the insignia on his uniform. Again, his photo substantiates that information to a greater degree than that of other U.S. Military officers sucgh as Trevor N. Dupuy. The fact that he was a clinical pathologist is substantiated by the published articles which he wrote and I cited. Please provide some additional guidance or examples as to where such additional citations may be found. Mrtony77 (talk) 17:45, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi @Mrtony77! You've run into one of Wikipedia's biggest minefields for new article writers: WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Unfortunately, not all articles are created equal, and ones that were written in the early days of Wikipedia often would not be accepted today - unless they've undergone some serious rewrites and updates over the years. Certainly David K. MacEwen's article would not be acceptable today, and I've tagged it as unreferenced in the hopes that references can be found - if not, it will have to be deleted. If you've found other articles in the same state, we'd really appreciate you either linking them or tagging them yourself. Everyone here is a volunteer and no matter how hard we work, many articles get missed while we try to keep Wikipedia as reliable and informative as possible.
 * Now, onto actual instructions. What you're trying to do with your draft is establish that Col. Angritt is notable by Wikipedia's very exacting standards. Most people aren't, so this step can be tricky! Your goal is to match the criteria found in WP:BIO - there's a lot of options, so please have a look and decide which you think Angritt meets. You will then need to find at least three sources that meet WP:42, the "golden rule": significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the topic (that is to say, independent of Angritt). As Jéské mentioned above, because Angritt only died recently, you also need to abide by WP:BLP, so every single statement needs to be backed up by a suitable source. BLPs are the hardest kind of article to write because of these extra requirements.
 * The sort of source you're looking for is something like a newspaper article, or a book, or something along those lines, that talks about Angritt's life and achievements. Sources can be online or offline, and in any language (although English is preferred as we're on the English Wikipedia). His uniform can't be a reliable source, because anyone can take a photo in a uniform (Stolen valor is unfortunately a thing) and of course Photoshop also exists. This next bit will sound strange, I realize, but stating that he was a clinical pathologist without a source that specifically says that is considered original research. This is because Wikipedia can only report facts that have been established by others, not put two and two together to come up with four. In this case, we can't look at the research he's done and then say he must have been a clinical pathologist because of that. Again, I know you've seen other articles that don't follow this rule, and again I can only say that we are doing our very best to make sure every article is compliant but there are millions of articles (and more every single day). A huge amount of volunteer time is taken up working on new articles, adding new information to older articles, and patrolling in an effort to remove vandalism and incorrect information. If you want to see what the patrolling volunteers are dealing with, peek at Recent Changes! And of course, there's people like Jéské and I who also like to hang around here and talk to editors working on drafts. The people trying to clean up old articles (I am one of them, too) are hugely outnumbered by the old articles that need cleaning. If you're interested in military history, your assistance and efforts in tidying up those older articles would be very much appreciated.
 * I hope this has been at least somewhat helpful in explaining what your next steps should be; if you have questions, please keep asking and either I or someone else will be back to answer them. Good luck and happy editing! StartGrammarTime (talk) 10:00, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hello, and thank you for the feedback. I have written several articles in the past, but about someone to whom I am related nor who recently died so I am being extra careful in this case. I don't believe there is anything controversial about this article's and I am being as thorough as humanly possible about citing everything. I will continue to work on this probably resubmit it in August once he is no longer considered to be recently deceased. Mrtony77 (talk) 19:16, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

17:36, 5 July 2024 review of submission by Nenarodz
I got a notification for citing reliable sources and im trying to figure out which sources cited in the references should be removed and how do I delete them? I tried editing the reference list but it won't let me remove any it only lets me add more. Need assistance with removing of references. Nenarodz (talk) 17:36, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * @Nenarodz I am a little confused. You created this as a draft and created it with references, You add and subtract references n the same manner that you added them on 27 January.
 * You may wish to revise the contents of WP:REFB and WP:CITE.
 * Since the draft is now an article your source for assistance should migrate to WP:TEAHOUSE, please 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:44, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

18:56, 5 July 2024 review of submission by Abiola adeola
I have drafted a wiki article I believe is worthy of inclusion to Wikpedia. As Safari Scribe instructed, I have ensured that I have written in the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia article. I have also provided news coverage from mutiple soures including Arise News, the Punch Newspaper, This Day Newspaper etc. and I have covered the INGO's contribution to parliamentary reports and its acknowlegdement and interraction with various Civil servants, Diplomats and Government Officials in the UK & Nigeria. Please could you kindly explain to me why my article is still not Wikipeadia worthy? I would be extremely grateful for as much detail as you can give. Abiola adeola (talk) 18:56, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * You have described the routine activities of the organization, as well as it's "mission"(which is wholly unencyclopedic and should be removed). We don't want a summary of the activities of the organization, you need to summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about the organization, showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable organization.  "Significant coverage" is that which goes beyond just telling what the organization does, and goes into detail about what the sources see as important/significant/influential about the organization.
 * You need to formally disclose your conflict of interest, please see WP:COI. If you receive any form of compensation for your role(it doesn't have to be money or even anything tangible), the Terms of Use require that to be disclosed, see WP:PAID. Note that articles are typically written by independent editors wholly unconnected with the topic- an organization trying to force the issue itself isn't often successful. 331dot (talk) 19:07, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the steer and useful links. For these I am extremely grateful. I am also happy to remove the "Mission" section on the draft, this is not an issue (I am a practicing lawyer & a PhD candidate, but I have honestly got to admit I am struggling with writing the wiki way! haha! its a whole new style of writing for me! but i am happy to learn :D). I believed i had disclosed my COI formally, but would be happy to go through the neccessary steps. As for getting paid, I am NOT in any form paid. This is an organisation I volunteer with. I am not paid by the organisation in anyway (unless of course solving human right violations are a considered a form of payment haha!) As for the organisation trying to "force the issue" This could be furthest from the case. I was not asked to do this in anyway, I simply believed that due to activites, attaianments and influence of the organisation, it was noteworthy. I signed up as an editor to do things the right way here. With all of that being said, due to my COI does this mean I should give up on trying to get the article published? I feel as though with your statement regarding "forcing the issue" I am more or less fighting a losing battle (so to speak). Again I am new to Wikipeadia, and would appreciate the steer. If the response is pack it up due to the COI, at least I'd know and would no longer expend my effort. I hope you get what i mean? Abiola adeola (talk) 19:26, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Abiola adeola Lawyers are adaptable! The text we need is flat, neutral. "dull-but-worthy" with citations for facts.
 * Your COI is an obstacle, a personal one for you, not for the org. You would do better to learn your trade here in non COI areas. It's very hard to write here when you have no COI. Writing when you have one allows unconscious bias to creep in, almost however careful we are.
 * Once you are confident you can work in Wikipedia style, revisit IOPBSJ with pleasure. Until then I recommend setting it aside. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 19:36, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * You did mention your COI in an edit summary, but it should also be mentioned on your user page(User:Abiola adeola) 331dot (talk) 08:18, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I am honestly just looking for a steer in the right direction that goes beyond the generic wikipaedia text. i really want to get this right :D Abiola adeola (talk) 19:08, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Abiola adeola just gave you that steer. 🇺🇦  Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 19:13, 5 July 2024 (UTC)