Wikipedia:WikiProject Conservatism/Assessment/Margaret Thatcher

Margaret Thatcher

 * Nominator(s): 

Currently a Good Article, I think it's pretty fair to say this article has, and largely for the better in my opinion. I previously brought up the subject of nominating this article for A-Class status in February 2018, see Talk:Margaret Thatcher/Archive 26. Two editors (namely and ) agreed with my proposal to nominate the article, though at the time no WikiProject this article was of interest in had A-Class capability (thanks  for the heads-up). Comments and feedback are very much appreciated.--Neve~selbert 21:26, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Comment: Hi I'm thrilled that you've nominated Margaret Thatcher to be the first A-Class Review at WP Conservatism. I will start my review presently. Please note has stepped to to be the second reviewer. – Lionel(talk) 03:41, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Image review
 * File:Margaret_Thatcher.png: OTRS
 * File:Maison_natale_de_Margaret_Thatcher,_Grantham.JPG: license good
 * File:Plaque,_maison_natale_de_Margaret_Thatcher.JPG: license good
 * File:Margaret_Thatcher_aos_13_anos_de_idade.jpg: license tag says "author is unknown" however source says "by Mr. Lee"
 * The license is wrong. The Commons page says public domain. However source says Mr. Lee is the author and license is CC-BY-SA 3.0 https://www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/Iron-Lady-Margaret-Roberts-Age-13//1 – Lionel(talk) 06:57, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
 * licence per the source provided.--Neve~selbert 17:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)


 * File:Girls_at_Baldock_County_Council_School_in_Hertfordshire_enjoy_a_drink_of_milk_during_a_break_in_the_school_day_in_1944._D20552.jpg: photo is c. 1944 but caption refers to 1970
 * Date of photo still doesn't match caption – Lionel(talk) 07:58, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
 * This shouldn't really be an issue. The image is used only to illustrate schoolchildren drinking milk, which Thatcher abolished for prepubescent pupils in 1970.--Neve~selbert 17:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

I recommend that you check all of the licensing and then I'll continue with image review. Thanks! – Lionel(talk) 09:07, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * File:Thatcher-loc.jpg: License says "no known copyright restrictions" however LOC says "Therefore, the Library recommends that patrons obtain permission from the creator agency, the photographer or the photographer's heirs before publishing or otherwise distributing images taken by non-staff photographers, except as allowed under "fair use."
 * Considering this image is an FP at the Turkish Wikimedia Commons, I think it's safe to presume there are no issues with this one's licence.--Neve~selbert 17:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi I have just reviewed the licencing for every image used in the article, and I don't see any significant issues. There are couple of files that are supposedly licensed under Creative Commons, though other than that everything seems fine. Each and every image used has been uploaded to the Commons, rather than here.--Neve~selbert 16:25, 22 April 2018 (UTC)


 * File:Shah_and_Margaret_Thatcher.jpg: PD
 * File:Margaret_Thatcher_at_Cabinet_table_in_the_White_House.jpg: PD
 * File:Reagan-Thatcher_cabinet_talks.jpg: PD
 * File:Poll_Tax_Riot_31st_Mar_1990_Trafalger_Square_-_Police_Pinned_down.jpg: AGF
 * File:Margaret_Thatcher_visiting_Salford.jpg: License good
 * File:Margaret_Thatcher_on_a_visit_to_Northern_Ireland.jpg: License good
 * File:Thatcher_at_Oval_Office_desk_with_Carter.jpg: PD good
 * File:Reagan_et_Thatcher.jpg: source links to wrong picture
 * .--Neve~selbert 17:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * File:Thatcher_and_Bush_-_1990_-_P14935-18A.jpg: OTRS
 * File:Thatcher_reviews_troops.jpg: PD
 * File:Margaret_Thatcher_at_the_Council.jpg: AGF
 * File:Margaret_Thatcher.jpg: source is a dead link---this should be repaired or tagged
 * .--Neve~selbert 17:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * File:Mulroney_Thatcher_and_Gorbachev_at_Reagan%27s_funeral.jpg: source is a dead link---this should be repaired or tagged
 * .--Neve~selbert 17:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * File:Thatcher_2006_September_11_event.jpg: source is a dead link---this should be repaired or tagged
 * .--Neve~selbert 17:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * File:Margaret_Thatcher_060912-F-0193C-006.jpg: source is a dead link---this should be repaired or tagged
 * .--Neve~selbert 17:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * File:Margaret_Thatcher_coffin_at_St._Pauls_X8A2604.jpg: license good
 * File:MTgrave1.jpeg: Discrepancy on file template. Uploader is No Swan So Fine and they uploaded it as "Own work." However the author is Gareth E Kegg.
 * File:Margaret_Thatcher_awarded_Presidential_Medal_of_Freedom.jpg: source is a dead link---this should be repaired or tagged
 * .--Neve~selbert 17:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * File:Coat_of_Arms_of_Margaret_Thatcher,_The_Baroness_Thatcher_(1992%E2%80%931995).svg: License good
 * File:Coat_of_Arms_of_Margaret_Thatcher,_The_Baroness_Thatcher_(1995%E2%80%932013).svg: License good
 * File:Coat_of_Arms_of_Margaret_Thatcher,_The_Baroness_Thatcher_(1995%E2%80%932013)_(Variant).svg: License good
 * I've reviewed all images. Some issues need to be addressed. – Lionel(talk) 07:58, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I think that I've fixed most of the issues noted. Thanks for the review! --Neve~selbert 17:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Great work! – Lionel(talk) 08:34, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Comment: From the getgo, this article looks pretty good. It has a logical organization and seems thorough. I will look more closely in the coming days, but so far, I have these constructive criticisms:
 * Reference 178 (at the bottom of the "Industrial relations" section), needs a page number.
 * For the table showing spending changes during Thatcher's tenure at the top of the "Economy and taxation" section, I recommend that you place the reference at a location where it doesn't look like only the defense spending is cited.
 * Lionelt might have a different opinion, but I think the tag at the "Further reading" section is unnecessary. All the works cited look appropriate to me, and considering the overall size of this article, I don't think it's excessive. --1990&#39;sguy (talk) 15:30, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * The Further reading has about 50 entries. IMO it's distracting. And I think it is an excellent candidate for a standalone list. I think policy supports splitting MOS:FURTHER, Further_reading: "more than half of all featured articles, omit it entirely." – Lionel(talk) 02:53, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅. Thanks to Google Books, I have located the page number for the incomplete citation and added references for the table showing spending changes. Moreover, the Further reading section has now been split into a new article titled Bibliography of Margaret Thatcher. Thanks for the heads up, much appreciated.--Neve~selbert 16:25, 22 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I've prepared some material (little more than bullet points) for stuff, mainly from her early career, which I think deserves a mention. Will post when I get a free evening this week, hopefully. For what it's worth, I've recently done a bit of sharpening up of some of the content of Premiership of Margaret Thatcher and a fair bit of work on the Westland Affair of 1986 (loads more notes not yet posted), as well as writing up Michael Heseltine's biography in comprehensive detail (although I have yet to plough through the Anthony Howard biography which purports to be Hezza's memoirs). I am also doing a lot of work on the 1975 and 1990 leadership elections. However, I fully appreciate that a biography of Thatcher needs to be kept at a level of detail accessible to schoolkids and general readers. Those who want to read the fine detail about Westland can go to the relevant article.Paulturtle (talk) 01:18, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Comments: some general comments and results of Toolbox checks – Lionel(talk) 09:14, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The Political impact section has a Lead, and then a subsection entitled Overview. It seems duplicative.
 * I wouldn't consider it duplicative, for the subsection isn't placed directly below the parent section, and IMO it helps identify the introduction.--Neve~selbert 21:20, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The quotebox from Downing Street is yellow and the one for Maggie Out is pink. Should the color be uniform?
 * I chose yellow for the former quotebox to imitate the colour of paper. For the latter I chose pink (rather than actual red given the text would have been unintelligible) since red is usually associated with socialist movements. I wouldn't be opposed to making the colour uniform (maybe lavender) if that is what's preferable.--Neve~selbert 21:20, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * user:NeveselbertI think multiple colors falls into the "decorative" category and doesn't serve an encyclopedic purpose. – Lionel(talk) 08:08, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Changed colours to lightgrey.--Neve~selbert 23:29, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Earwig's showed high probability of copyvio: this was checked and attributed to properly cited quotations thus no copyright issues.
 * Please make sure DABs are pointing properly https://dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py?page=Margaret_Thatcher
 * .--Neve~selbert 21:20, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Source Review
 * A quick glance of citation style shows consistency.
 * The last fragment of "The Iron Lady" needs a ref. Last sentence of first para of Industrial relations needs a ref. Everything else that should be cited is cited.
 * sources published by BBC News and Oxford Dictionaries.--Neve~selbert 21:20, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Ref #48 is dead.
 * I have checked the ref and it seems fine. Can you provide a direct link? --Neve~selbert 21:20, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * user:Neveselbert This one – Lionel(talk) 08:08, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

– Lionel(talk) 09:14, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * .--Neve~selbert 23:29, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Comments: the article size is 70930. Articles > 50K are candidates for splitting WP:TOOBIG. IMO the Premiership section is too long--especially since there is a standalone article. The section may be overly detailed taking into account this is a Bio. Apart from that, the Bibliography section is still pretty large. – Lionel(talk) 06:41, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * If there's anything you'd like me to specifically reduce, I'm willing to have a look. In the mean time, we could add a tag for each section.--Neve~selbert 23:29, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Comment: – Lionel(talk) 10:03, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
 * In the lead, chronologically, should the assassination which occurred in 1984 be moved to the last para?
 * " Prior to the Second World War, in 1938" superfluous comma
 * Should the birthplace Coords be moved from the plaque photo to the infobox?
 * Why is field hockey wikilinked?
 * Second iteration of "women's college" should not be wikilinked
 * Should the section title "Leader of the Opposition: 1975–1979" include something about ascent to PM?
 * The quotation from "Economy: Letter of the 364 economists seems undue. The section is long as it is.
 * quotation from"A Review of Privatisation and Regulation seems undue.
 * The first sentence of "Northern Ireland" is a one-sentence para and should be merged into the following para.
 * Can this be quantified "Violence in Northern Ireland escalated significantly during the hunger strikes"
 * For extra credit, expand Environment section
 * Foreign affairs section is long. Should it be broken into subsections?
 * "Although saying that she was in favour of "peaceful negotiations" to end apartheid,[230][231] Thatcher opposed sanctions imposed" although is a weasel word
 * "This was no time to go wobbly" that was the best!
 * Why did she withdraw before the second ballot???
 * How was her relationship with Bush?
 * Should these qualities be added to the Thatcherism sidebar? Thatcherism came to refer to her policies as well as aspects of her ethical outlook and personal style, including moral absolutism, nationalism, interest in the individual
 * Cultural depictions seems like a trivia section. Imo should be trimmed. And it has 2 one-sentence paras. The lyrics for Maggie Out are unnecessary. This is a great article... You need to finish strong! ;-)
 * Hi did you have a chance to peruse the items? – Lionel(talk) 12:19, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I've been caught up with quite a few things lately. If you could attend to these issues yourself, that'd be great .--Neve~selbert: 20:09, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I may have forgotten that this is A-Class, not FA, lol. I have only the comment about the Cultural section for me to vote Support. Note that the rest will probably come up at FA.
 * Pinging to see if he had anything else and what he wants to do with his !vote Comment/Support/Oppose.
 * And then we can close :-) – Lionel(talk) 06:46, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * (responding to your invitation on my user talk page) I don't regard myself as qualified to determine whether an article is A-class, and I don't have time to go over Maggie's article with a fine-toothed comb, but I reviewed it as briefly as possible (which was not so brief) and it looks tight to me aside from the "Maggie Out" issue (on which I'm torn). I support. -JohnAlbertRigali (talk) 03:28, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The article looks good, and seeing the improvements that Neveselbert has made in the past many days, I !vote support. --1990&#39;sguy (talk) 03:44, 17 June 2018 (UTC)