Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Globalization


 * The following discussion is an archived proposal of the WikiProject below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or the WikiProject Council).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The resulting WikiProject was created at WikiProject Globalization

This was a proposal to start a new WikiProject Globalization. That collaborative project was launched on June 25, 2012.

Description
Globalization is by definition a broad and interdisciplinary concept and field, with many tie-ins. This Wikipedia Project group would work together to help strengthen and develop articles on various aspects of contemporary globalization and related topics.

The main Globalization article has been downgraded from "good." The Global Citizenship, World Citizenship, and Global Civics are separated for reasons that make sense to those with substantial knowledge but not for someone who is curious about the subject...

...And that's just what I've been looking at in the last half an hour. I think Wikipedia could benefit by having a group of editors who work on various aspects of globalization come together to create a systemic and cohesive presentation of the available materials on globalization. I hope you'll join me! LizFlash (talk) 16:16, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Project scope
This table is not an exhaustive list. It is meant to describe some places where we can help make Wikipedia's coverage of globalization better, and to identify places where input about globalization might be unnecessary, off-topic, or irrelevant. Please add to it.

Aspects of globalization



 * Also: I'm not going to add a litany of bluelinks (or redlinks) but the project should presumably include articles which touch on global integration of rules, regulations, and standards (anything from electrical standards to shipping containers to accounting rules). This integration is a major facet of globalisation. bobrayner (talk) 14:33, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Globalization and the environment

 * Note: some of these redirect in ways that demonstrate the need for a WikiProject Globalization.



Related scientific journals

 * Note: still more here...



Important categories
Note: some of these are brand new, just starting up in anticipation of this prospective WikiProject; subcategories not counted...
 * anti-globalization (number of pages in the category: 50 )
 * economic globalization (number of pages in the category: 1 )
 * global business organization (number of pages in the category: 3 )
 * global issues (number of pages in the category: n/a )
 * global natural environment (number of pages in the category: 2 )
 * global studies (number of pages in the category: n/a )
 * globalization (number of pages in the category: 139 )
 * globalization terminology (number of pages in the category: 24 )
 * globalization scholars (number of pages in the category: n/a )
 * international organizations (number of pages in the category: 250 )
 * international relations (number of pages in the category: 164 )
 * human rights (number of pages in the category: 160 )
 * sociocultural globalization  (number of pages in the category: 7 )
 * workforce globalization (number of pages in the category: 3 )
 * works about globalization (number of pages in the category: 3 )
 * world government (number of pages in the category: 50 )
 * writers about globalization (number of pages in the category: 4 )

Related WikiProjects and outreach effort
... currently on the talk pages of those articles
 * Please invite these and any other similar groups to join the discussion about this proposal. See WikiProject_Council/Directory to find similar WikiProjects.

Why start a new group?
... instead of joining one of these existing groups?
 * The challenge with filing globalization under any one of these Projects is that doing so creates a bias. Globalization is equally Politics, Economy, Sociology, Environment, Business, Health... and it's discussed by philosophers and travelers. An adequate treatment of this subject requires a space that can accept interdisciplinary points of view. I understand that the subject looks pretty light on articles, but there is probably someone else out there with a different point of view who can help expand this.

Support
Please add your User name here if you would be interested in participating in a WikiProject Globalization. 'Maybe...' and 'It depends...' are okay, too.


 * 1) LizFlash (talk) 16:16, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) DASonnenfeld (talk) 18:23, 24 May 2012 (UTC) – Yes, great idea!
 * 3) Meclee (talk) 17:58, 24 May 2012 (UTC) - Yes, agree this area needs much work.
 * 4) benzband  ( talk ) 11:45, 26 May 2012 (UTC) - maybe/it depends (leave a note on my talkpage if it gets up and running :-)
 * 5) Zangar (talk) 12:17, 26 May 2012 (UTC) - fully support the project, but may not become a member
 * 6) bobrayner (talk) 16:33, 27 May 2012 (UTC) - definitely, looks like a good move. Count me in; I'd love to help.
 * 7) Pine✉  19:04, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 8) Mir Almaat 1 S1 (talk)
 * 9)   John Shandy`   &bull; talk 05:43, 15 June 2012 (UTC) - no promises on my editing activity, but I'd be interested in this project, specifically regarding international economics, international finance, and intl. relations, intl. organizations, etc.

Basic questions and comments
I considered supporting, but I'd like to hear the supporter's response to to questions first:
 * globalization is a very blurry term; where will you draw the line and say "this is not part of the project scope"? I hope you won't try to tag articles on national economies, for example.


 * Thanks for your questions! Globalization is a blurry term and it's used as a catch all. This has made articles about globalization and related concepts on Wikipedia confusing and self-conscious. There are standards and definitions in the growing academic field, so there is no reason Wikipedia couldn't reflect that discussion in a way that would be meaningful to someone who is new to the information. LizFlash (talk) 00:04, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I certainly agree with you that national economies are not within the scope of this project, but it's easy to see what isn't! What is in the scope of the project will probably be determined through an ongoing discussion by the group members, and will be determined by their interests and areas of expertise.  For my part, I'm interested in clarifying the philosophy and it's history and defining key terms.  I'm not really interested in what specific nation-states are up to, or even specific global issues, but I want to be here to help those who are if those areas overlap with what I'm interested in.


 * most project quickly become inactive. Why do you think this project won't join their ranks? Do you have experience working with other WikiProjects? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk to me 19:40, 24 May 2012 (UTC)


 * After lurking for several years, this is my first major Wikipedia effort. I'm being bold! And so, there is most certainly a risk in following my proposal. I've chosen this topic because globalization is a subject I care about and study academically. I am proposing to do this work in the format of a Project because another reason why these topics suffer is because many of them are essays written from a particular point-of-view or sub-discipline.  If I start to jump in on every page and write about the things I learned in grad school, I'm just adding to the problem.  Globalization is a new and evolving field, and a group of interested editors can work together to make sure that new ideas that pop up on Wikipedia follow appropriate guidelines.  One more thought, if the group does become inactive after awhile, but it manages to make some significant improvements before it does, would that really be so bad?


 * I believe this really needs to happen. So why don't you jump on board and make sure that my inexperience isn't what causes it to fail? LizFlash (talk)


 * Global studies has a long tradition (see: Mercantilism, Global trade, Age of Exploration, Historical geography, Cartography). It has come into its own in the last couple of decades with pathbreaking work by Immanuel Wallerstein, Manuel Castells, John Urry, David Held, Ulrich Beck, Saskia Sassen and others. It shows no signs of going away, or of being simply a fad; nor do the related phenomena themselves... DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 05:20, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

A good proposal, with an extensive list of articles and topics to encompass. Although I do have a couple of concerns over the definition of the scope, I'm a little unsure of other articles that this project may cover (and a new member to the project may be in the same boat) - perhaps to gain more support, you could write out the defined scope, that you would use for the project, here. In the same vein, what safeguards will be put in place to ensure that new articles are not created for topics with "Global" appended to the beginning of the title and then just goes on to compare/contrast different countries' attitudes? Also, would you ensure there is a project guideline on the way articles are written to ensure they conform to NPOV and that the project doesn't fall foul to either the pro- or anti- globalisation camps? But bearing these in mind I can see this being a useful project. Cheers, Zangar (talk) 11:37, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Zangar, thanks! I will start a section to clarify the scope, and I hope other potential members and more experienced Wikipedians will contribute.  Your example is exactly something that I would want to avoid.  I'm not really clear on what additional "safeguards" I can provide.  Do you have some additional suggestions?


 * "would you ensure there is a project guideline on the way articles are written to ensure they conform to NPOV"] - Yes! Lack of NPOV is a huge problem in this selection of articles, and as it currently stands the casual reader can't distinguish between schools of thought and fringe theories.  I think it would be very valuable to have a sub-project-page that includes major points-of-view, schools of thought, and fringe theories, and from there we can guide Wikipedians to the proper way to clarify the position of a school of thought or a fringe theory in an article.


 * As to "and that the project doesn't fall foul to either the pro- or anti- globalisation camps? " - I want Wikipedia to reflect the current knowledge about globalization, global issues, and related concepts. Descriptions of the points-of-view of those camps will have their place in certain articles, but the articles themselves should not be about their beliefs.  I don't know how to guarantee that one group or another won't vandalize the project or attempt to overwhelm our numbers, but I think we start by focusing on remaining neutral, and by gathering some experienced Wikipedians who share the goal.  LizFlash (talk) 16:53, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Great work on the scope, this is better formed than most established Projects (I'll say a little more in the section below). I think in terms of safeguards, that a well defined scope that you present here with dos and don'ts should be fine. And I think a set of project guidelines reflecting the policies of WP:NPOV, WP:UNDUE and your comments above would be a good basis to address the other concerns. It's great to see that you're thinking of these things - I can certainly support this project.


 * Just something else you might want to consider with list of proposed articles above: You may want to check whether there are similar articles that already exist under slightly different names, to ensure you aren't recreating them and have to go through a merge process/discussion. A few that I came across: Global economy → World economy, Economic globalization; Global trade → international trade; Global disease → Globalization and disease. Cheers, Zangar (talk) 11:52, 26 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Excellent suggestion, thanks! DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 13:30, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree that, as popularly used, the term is 'fuzzy', which isn't always a bad thing. But, that is why I've proposed a major re-structuring of the main Globalization article, which I will be working on in a sandbox. The article is identified as "top" importance by the Sociology Project, and will be helpful to my teaching, as globalization is a major topic in my courses that students often find confusing. As I work on this, I will identify (or locate) "main" articles that further explore differing aspects of globalization. These tasks should help clarify and further delimit the scope of the project. Thanks to all for the discussion. Meclee (talk) 17:05, 25 May 2012 (UTC)  Also, to begin the project, I suggest further limiting it to improving or weeding-out articles already contained in Category:Globalization.Meclee (talk) 17:09, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for tackling the Globalization article! I like your suggestion to start by improving and weeding-out Category:Globalization. I think that's a great way to keep our work small and focused, it allows us identify and achieve a concrete goal, and it exposes us to people who might be interested in helping. LizFlash (talk) 17:47, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * UPDATE: A first-pass edit re-structuring the Globalization article has now been completed, although additional editing tasks remain.  See the article talk page.  Meclee (talk) 18:59, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

More on project scope
Some different perspectives from what is currently shown (esp. on the 'not' side), above: Anyway, plenty of food for thought. Thanks for getting this started! DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 19:52, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not always easy to distinguish between what's 'global' and what's not. E.g. I would think that global climate change was within the scope of a Globalization project, including, say, articles discussing national responses to global issue. It should be okay for an article on China's stance on climate change negotiations to be of interest to WikiProjects on China, Environment, and Globalization... Articles listing different countries stance on say the Kyoto protocol would be fit well, too, I would think. Why not?
 * Global institutions, organizations, and movements belong within the scope of a Globalization WikiProject, I would think. They play such a key role. The WTO, World Bank, GEF...
 * Technology is an interesting one. Think about the Internet... Certainly fits within a Globalization project. Or orbital satellites, a key part of communication, surveillance, and much more.
 * Looking better... A couple of further questions:
 * Where would you put transnational geographic features relevant to globalization, such as climate/ global warming, ocean levels and temperature, glacial melt...?
 * What is 'CSB'?
 * Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 21:08, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your input! This part isn't going to be easy...
 * I don't disagree, when the issue has global consequences and a coherent effort has been taken by several nation-states, non-governmental organizations, and other stakeholders to deal with it. I can see where this could get trite if future members took it to mean they should make lists of national responses to every little thing.  Articles like these should not give  the sense that there is a global response to non-global issues.  For example, I am looking at a cigarette butt on the ground right now.  A list of responses, national and non-governmental, toward stemming the tide of cigarette butts on the ground could lead the casual reader to believe there was a concerted global effort in that direction.
 * I had excluded organizations because it seems like they are already under the care of other projects, but you're right that this doesn't make much sense, especially if articles on those topics are suffering because one school-of-thought or a fringe theory about globalization has used the article as a pulpit.
 * I was attempting to show that descriptions of the technical aspects of any technology is out of our scope, but considerations about their impact on global society should be something we watch. Take internet censorship - we may need to rely on our fellow editors to describe how the internet can be censored, but we should be able to improve sections about the implications of one national policy or another on the global discourse. LizFlash (talk) 19:45, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah, you're right. I was thinking about the mountain range behind my house the first time. My wording is a bit awkward, can you help me a little?
 * CSB is Countering Systemic Bias - I added a link. The globalize tag is used to signal that an article needs more perspectives, or needs to exist in order to include perspectives that are not considered by the majority of Wikipedians.  What we're trying to do here is different than adding global perspectives, although some of the articles we want to work on may need global perspectives.  Do you agree? LizFlash (talk) 20:29, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your explanations. We're getting there... :-) DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 08:24, 26 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Great scope. I'm thinking that for the in-scope clause of "Articles about material flows of humans, goods, services, raw materials, ideas and institutions across national borders" you may want to state that where these are in regions or between near-by countries with shared histories that they are out of scope as they're not really "global" e.g. between nations in Scandinavia. Cheers' Zangar (talk) 12:14, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * A useful distinction & suggestion. Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 13:26, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

As mentioned, one of the main tasks of the project will be to maintain Category:Globalization. Just to begin that task, I created a subCategory:Globalization aspects of and then five subcategories of that and moved other categories already contained under the broad globalization category into one of those five sub-subcategories, which may be added-to as needed, although there is a very broad range already represented by the five. Here is a category tree: Meclee (talk) 11:11, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Daughter project?
What would be the advantage or disadvantage of the proposed WikiProject Globalization being a daughter project of WikiProject Sociology, or another WikiProject? Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 07:15, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Globalization isn't something that's studied primarily by any one academic discipline, but if there was a strong reason for this to be a daughter project of something else then I think it should be International relations. Pine✉ 19:11, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that globalisation fits neatly under sociology. A larger part of the project scope might overlap with a project in the direction of finance/economics/commerce, but it's still not a good match, imho. bobrayner (talk) 11:49, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * My thinking is... some overlap between projects is inevitable. You could look at WikiProject Brazil and realise that the Amazon might also be of interest to WikiProject Rivers, Embraer is one for WikiProject Aviation, some history projects are interested in Teresa Cristina, and so on - but these overlaps aren't systematic; the other projects vary. This applies to globalisation; it's like an octopus, with thick tentacles which span many topics, rather than being a narrow subset of one area which already has an extant WikiProject. bobrayner (talk) 12:52, 29 May 2012 (UTC)


 * This is the best argument for being a separate WProj. There are many aspects to globalization, such that many WProjs might have interest in a specific area or article that would fall under the scope of WProj Globalization.  This would present many opportunities for WProj Globalization to bring together a Collaborative Project .  Meclee (talk) 14:34, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm sold, and agree... Globalization as a topic is both broader (more interdisciplinary) and narrower (somewhat more time-specific, focusing, arguably, especially on the contemporary era) than other WikiProject focuses. History is one WikiProject, which is much broader, temporally. Or Geography (which also has both historical and contemporary, as well as physical and human dimensions)... I've noticed that some WikiProjects are well organized, with different subgroups. I could perhaps see at some point different subprojects within a WikiProject Globalization, focusing on different subareas, such as Globalization and Health, cooperating with the Health and/or Medicine WikiProjects; or Globalization and Culture, cooperating with the Culture WikiProject... Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 17:28, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Additional groups to invite
I would like to suggest that you invite WikiProject Finance, WikiProject Science, WikiProject Ecology, and WikiProject Military history. Pine✉ 21:31, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Good suggestion, thank you. Will do... DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 06:23, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 08:05, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Next steps?
Good effort getting this proposal going, everyone... What are the next steps? Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 09:07, 5 June 2012 (UTC)


 * If we are satisfied with discussion and interest, according to WikiProject_Council/Guide/WikiProject, the next step would be to create the WikiProject Globalization project page. We can use a simple template like Name.  Some of the content that will be needed is:


 * 1 Goals
 * 2 Scope
 * 3 Guidelines
 * 4 Open tasks (to-do-list)
 * 5 Participants
 * 6 Review and assessment guidelines
 * 7 Templates
 * 8 Resources
 * 9 Related WikiProjects


 * Some of the content of this discussion could be adapted for the project page. Meclee (talk) 18:13, 5 June 2012 (UTC)  P.S.  Starting page in a sandbox. Meclee (talk) 18:26, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for taking next steps towards getting this started on a sandbox page, Meclee! You raise a good question: Are we ready to proceed with this project? I'm supportive, but wonder if there's sufficient active interest to sustain the project through the northern hemisphere summer, and beyond. What do you (or anyone) think? In any case, good idea to start modestly, as you've done, focusing on the main Globalization article, the fundamental categories, etc. Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 07:52, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I think there is sufficient interest to start the Project. Ongoing interest is another matter that may (or may not) surface until there is a project page.  As a further effort to solicit interest in the proposal, I've posted it to the Community_portal Bulletin Board.Meclee (talk) 16:54, 13 June 2012 (UTC)


 * There appears to be sufficient interest in starting this project. I will create the project page. Meclee (talk) 15:36, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Decision
WikiProject Globalization is launched!


 * If you'd like to help out, please visit the project page and sign up...


 * Thanks, all, for your helpful inputs & suggestions. Special call-out to Meclee for getting this rolling. DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 18:47, 25 June 2012 (UTC)


 * ''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or at the WikiProject Council). No further edits should be made to this page.