Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority


 * The following discussion is an archived proposal of the WikiProject below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or the WikiProject Council).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The proposed WikiProject was created at WikiProject Greater Boston Public Transit

Note there are several names/scopes proposed for this WikiProject. Please comment on the proposed name separately from your expression of Support, Oppose, or Neutral. — Lentower (talk) 19:46, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Description
Given that the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority is a topic of wide interest and with a wide variety of pages falling under it or related to it, that there is currently no dedicated WikiProject for it, and that the need for a dedicated Wikiproject has become a topic of discussion recently, I'm proposing the creation of WikiProject Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority. Whoop whoop pull up Bitching Betty &#124; Averted crashes 16:47, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

List of important pages and categories for this proposed group
 * massachusetts bay transportation authority (number of pages in the category: 27 )
 * public transportation in the boston area (number of pages in the category: 9 )
 * railway stations in boston, massachusetts (number of pages in the category: 76 )
 * green line (mbta) stations (number of pages in the category: 91 )
 * massachusetts bay transportation authority line templates (number of pages in the category: 36 )
 * massachusetts bay transportation authority (number of pages in the category: 27 )
 * public transportation in the boston area (number of pages in the category: 9 )
 * railway stations in boston, massachusetts (number of pages in the category: 76 )
 * green line (mbta) stations (number of pages in the category: 91 )
 * massachusetts bay transportation authority line templates (number of pages in the category: 36 )
 * massachusetts bay transportation authority (number of pages in the category: 27 )
 * public transportation in the boston area (number of pages in the category: 9 )
 * railway stations in boston, massachusetts (number of pages in the category: 76 )
 * green line (mbta) stations (number of pages in the category: 91 )
 * massachusetts bay transportation authority line templates (number of pages in the category: 36 )
 * public transportation in the boston area (number of pages in the category: 9 )
 * railway stations in boston, massachusetts (number of pages in the category: 76 )
 * green line (mbta) stations (number of pages in the category: 91 )
 * massachusetts bay transportation authority line templates (number of pages in the category: 36 )


 * List of WikiProjects currently on the talk pages of those articles
 * Please invite these and any other similar groups to join the discussion about this proposal. See WikiProject_Council/Directory to find similar WikiProjects.




 * Why do you want to start a new group, instead of joining one of these existing groups?
 * The Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority is a substantial topic of its own, and one that is big enough and has enough specific subtopics of its own that it can't really be managed effectively from WikiProject Trains, WikiProject Transport, or WikiProject Boston, just to give a few examples of the really wide-ranging WikiProjects that it currently falls under. Having a specific WikiProject Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority would enable a much better concentration of effort on improving MBTA-related pages than is currently possible. Whoop whoop pull up Bitching Betty &#124; Averted crashes 17:14, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Support
Also, specify whether or not you would join the project.
 * 1) Support as nominator, and I would most certainly join. Whoop whoop pull up Bitching Betty &#124; Averted crashes 16:47, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * 2) Support and would join immediately — There is a lot of coverage of the MBTA in Wikipedia, the topic is important, and new developments occur frequently. A WikiProject would help the many editors to cooordinate their efforts.  Reify-tech (talk) 17:41, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * 3) Support and instant join. 90% of my editing falls under the MBTA or related articles, and having a centralized place to discuss these would be a huge boon. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:10, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * 4) Support, and would also join, due to similar wikiprojects on NYC and D.C. rapid transit systems. Epic Genius (talk) 21:12, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * 5) Support, and would participate. makes sense in light of the similar NYC and DC projects. (Maybe Philly/SEPTA should get one too) oknazevad (talk) 00:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * 6) Support & would join. Discussion affecting many MBTA pages has happened haphazardly on different Talk pages for MBTA articles.  It be good to have it all on a WikiProject Talk page, followed by all concerned editors. We could also document conventions that have been adopted for the MBTA pages. — Lentower (talk) 01:46, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I will not join a WikiProject wider than the Greater Boston area and the MBTA. Though I wish I did, I don't have the time to edit or be concerned about those articles. — Lentower (talk) 21:03, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Against No evidence that going outside of the existing rail group will enhance the work to improve articles. Next the MTA of New York and SEPTA and Chicago CTA will all split off ... and that's a slippery slope if ever I saw one. Rhubarbs Cat (talk) 23:23, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment. The re already is a project for New York City public transportation, and indeed, that's the model for this project. As noted below, there's some debate as to name/scope. I think the broader name/scope makes sense. But there's definitely a good idea here. oknazevad (talk) 00:35, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * NOTE: oknazevad has already called for a similar project for Philadelphia, and I've recommended one for Chicago in the past, as previously mentioned. -User:DanTD (talk) 20:04, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment This proposal already have the minimum of six editors needed to move forward with forming this Wikiproject; we are just discussing name and scope now. I wish these other attempts at forming a WikiProject the best, and hope they improve the transist articles in those regions. — Lentower (talk) 20:18, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
 * some of the evidence is
 * a.) The editors active on the MBTA pages, discuss issues about large sub-sets of the MBTA articles on individual Talk pages. This makes it harder to reach consensus, as not all the editors watch the MBTA pages used. Many of these concerned editors have indicated here, they want this WikiProject to consolidate this discussion in one place, the talk page of the new WikiProject.
 * b.) I'm not aware of any of these MBTA discussions happening on the WikiProjects listed above. If they have happened there, the fact I'm unaware of them proves that we need a more focused WikiProject for these MBTA articles. — Lentower (talk) 20:18, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

What should this WikiProject's name be?
In the discussion below, several names have been proposed for this WikiProject: Please indicate your preference for the name of this WikiProject, with one of MBTA, GrBosPT, MassPT, or NewEngPT. — Lentower (talk) 20:04, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority or
 * MBTA (one should redirect to the other)
 * Greater Boston Public Transit (added 30 May 2015)
 * Massachusetts Public Transit
 * New England Public Transit
 * GrBosPT MBTA  - The MBTA articles have issues, including formatting, that do not apply to the other public transit articles in the state or New England. — Lentower (talk) 20:04, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * (Why I changed my mind.) But the MBTA articles also have issues related to Public Transit in the Greater Boston Area, so it's best to include all those articles. The MBTA service area is roughly all of Greater Boston, and includes northeastern RI, and southeastern New Hampshire. — Lentower (talk) 20:48, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment - Perhaps there should be a separate WikiProject New England Public Transit, but that can be proposed, if needed, when the consensus about this proposal is completed. — Lentower (talk) 20:04, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * NewEngPT - a broader scope is a better idea, as too narrowly focused projects tend to not be viable over time. oknazevad (talk) 00:35, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Both a WikiProject MBTA and a WikiProject New England Public Transit - There should be a standalone WikiProject MBTA and also a wider-scope WikiProject New England Public Transit, per Lentower. Whoop whoop pull up Bitching Betty &#124; Averted crashes 22:39, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment - I like the idea of all those names redirecting to the one project. MassPT seems to imply that the project is exclusively for Boston, but then again, you could make the same arguments for NYCPT, and that still covers New Jersey and Southwestern Connecticut. -User:DanTD (talk) 20:14, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * MassPT does not imply MBTA. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts is alot bigger than the MBTA service area. Even in Public Transit, there are quite a few other state-charted TA (Transit Authorities) and public transit projects. — Lentower (talk) 20:31, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * These WikiProjects names should not linked to one another. They cover very different scopes. Why do you feel it's a good idea? — Lentower (talk) 20:31, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * If the WikiProject is larger than the Greater Boston area, I will not join it. I don't have the time to edit or be concerned about those articles. — Lentower (talk) 20:31, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * MBTA spreads further out than Boston, and WP:NYPT covers transit companies and agencies that aren't necessarily part of the MTA. There's no reason you can't do the same for this project. -User:DanTD (talk) 12:31, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

A compromise proposal...
Seeing as the disagreements over the title of the proposed WikiProject(s) seem to be focused mainly on MBTA/Greater Boston public transit versus New England public transit as a whole, what do people think of my proposal to have two separate WikiProjects:


 * WikiProject MBTA or WikiProject Greater Boston Public Transit: a more narrowly focused WikiProject, dealing with articles and issues specific to or having a considerable importance to the MBTA itself and\or public transit in the greater Boston area;
 * WikiProject New England Public Transit: a WikiProject for articles and issues dealing with New England public transit in general (would overlap to a degree with WP:NYCPT);

thus allowing both New-England-in-general transit discussions and Greater-Boston-and\or-MBTA-specific transit discussions to take place without bias towards either side? Whoop whoop pull up Bitching Betty &#124; Averted crashes 19:57, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Support both Greater Boston and New England Public Transit Wikiprojects. — Lentower (talk) 21:46, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Support both Greater Boston and New England Public Transit Wikiprojects. There are a number of public transit services in Greater Boston which are not officially part of the MBTA, but they are still very relevant to local residents. It is important to at least roughly delineate the boundaries of the respective regions, and also to point to the adjacent regions served by WikProjects. I don't mind some overlap in coverage, as long as it is clear where the boundaries are. Reify-tech (talk) 22:02, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Any more comments, or is it time to go ahead and create the two WikiProjects? Whoop whoop pull up Bitching Betty &#124; Averted crashes 00:17, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * After 24-48 hours: Yes, go for WikiProject Greater Boston Public Transit and WikiProject New England Public Transit. — Lentower (talk) 04:35, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
If this wikiproject is created, is it basically guaranteed that there will be enough activity so that it would stay open? Epic Genius (talk) 20:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think it has to be an incredibly high traffic board, but the MBTA is broad enough that it would be useful in the vein of WikiProject New York City Public Transportation which is one of my favorite Wikiproject communities. There are a lot of non-MBTA-specific topics (the Conn River Line revival, the various RTAs, Hubway, etc) that should probably also fall under the preview of this project. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:19, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I guess that's reasonable. Epic Genius (talk) 21:12, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Then why not name the group Massachusetts Public Transit or New England Public Transit? — Lentower (talk) 02:06, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Sounds even better; there's no reason to exclude non-MBTA services from discussion, and the usual suspects likely edit both types of articles. Reify-tech (talk) 03:44, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, let's expand it to New England public transit, since it's very relevant here. Epic Genius (talk) 12:56, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I've always thought a Chicago-related mass transit WikiProject should be created for the same reason, and I'm open to the current suggestion. But if we make it for New England at large, would that mean we'd have to include Shore Line East, the Metro-North New Haven Line, and the proposed New Haven to Springfield Hartford Line? -User:DanTD (talk) 17:02, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * There will certainly be overlap between WP:NYCPT and this project in Connecticut; MNRR would largely be NYC but SLE and Hartford Line would fall under both. That's not a problem for something like this, though. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 18:23, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Agree with . — Lentower (talk) 18:52, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Sounds very good, as long as it is made clear where the boundaries are in Connecticut. Reify-tech (talk) 21:05, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with Reify-tech. So everything west of Union Station (New Haven) is NYPT territory, even though the Shore Line Express has trains going as far west as Stamford Transportation Center. I can live with that. -User:DanTD (talk) 03:01, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * BTW, even if I don't join this project, I'd like to work on an S-Line template for the Cape Cod Central Railroad stations. -User:DanTD (talk) 03:01, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * WP:NYCPT is too narrowly named, both topically and geographically. This error has not prevented broader usefulness, but it need not be repeated. The new Project's name should reach more broadly, omitting unnecessary restrictions like "Bay" and "Authority"

So should we create the WikiProject now, or wait a bit longer? Whoop whoop pull up Bitching Betty &#124; Averted crashes 01:38, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Too soon. We don't have a consensus on a name yet (see new section above). — Lentower (talk) 20:09, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I just re-polled the eight WikiProjects listed above, about the name/scopes. — Lentower (talk) 20:53, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject creation
Okeydokey–WikiProject Greater Boston Public Transit is GO! WikiProject New England Public Transit'll have to wait till I get home from work, tho–unless someone else wants to give it a try? Whoop whoop pull up Bitching Betty &#124; Averted crashes 15:00, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Update: WikiProject New England Public Transit IS ALSO UP! Whoop whoop pull up Bitching Betty &#124; Averted crashes 17:43, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

–pinging you in case you haven't seen that the WikiProjects are now up. , you've been fairly active in creating and editing MBTA-related articles (including the five former Orange Line stations that you just recently gave me permission to move to articlespace), so I thought you might want to see this too! Whoop whoop pull up Bitching Betty &#124; Averted crashes 13:43, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or at the WikiProject Council). No further edits should be made to this page.