Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Men


 * The following discussion is an archived proposal of the WikiProject below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or the WikiProject Council).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The resulting WikiProject was not created and redirected to WP:MEN. (non-admin closure) &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 01:44, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Description
WikiProject Men is primarily an article improvement effort. We'll seek to bring articles of interest to men to their highest potential quality. To accomplish this, we'll track the current status of relevant articles using a banner, to define the article's quality and importance to the project. We'll also have a to do list which we can use to bring attention to specific article improvement efforts. Because of systemic bias, we are not focusing on new article creation, though of course if we are missing key topics related to men, these should be created and improved along with the current articles. Primarily, we will focus on areas of men's health, masculinity, fatherhood, men's organizations, maintaining lists of men, and maintaining Category:Men and its subcategories. We will coordinate with other WikiProjects to work on overlapping subjects like men's sports and biographies of men. As there is an existing, semi-active, WP:WikiProject Men's Issues, topics related to the men's rights movement and activism won't be a focus of our current scope.
 * Goals
 * Scope

List of important pages and categories for this proposed group
 * men
 * lists of men
 * men's organizations
 * lists of men
 * men's organizations


 * List of WikiProjects currently on the talk pages of those articles
 * Please invite these and any other similar groups to join the discussion about this proposal. See WikiProject_Council/Directory to find similar WikiProjects.




 * Why do you want to start a new group, instead of joining one of these existing groups?
 * The existing group's focus is fairly narrow. This WikiProject, like WikiProject Women, will hopefully spark much greater activity. -- Netoholic @ 19:10, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Support
Also, specify whether or not you would join the project.
 * 1) As proposer. --Netoholic @ 04:16, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Discussion

 * This proposal has been restarted (prior version). -- Netoholic @ 04:16, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The scope of the project is unclear and seems to overlap heavily with WikiProject Men's Issues, WikiProject Gender Studies, WikiProject Feminism etc. The distinct part of the proposal seems to imply tagging every sportsman and male biography with a "Men" WikiProject, which I fail to see the benefit of. Netoholic originally created this WikiProject boldly and it was deleted as a result of Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Men. — Bilorv (he/him) (talk) 09:16, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm one of these people who doesn't care about gender or sex when it comes to Wikipedia. 90% of my Wikipedia activity is gnoming, but when it comes to content, I'll write on something if I find it interesting.  If that person is a man, great.  If that person is a woman, great.  I genuinely could not care less about the gender of the person I'm writing about because policies and guidelines for inclusion and content such as notability, verifiability and neutrality have nothing to do with gender.  Women aren't more notable than men by virtue of their gender, nor vice-versa.  However, I do recognise that there are issues that women face that men don't and by the same token there are issues that men face that women don't.  If people think focusing on specific identities is a feasible way of achieving a sociopolitical goal, go for it.  But Wikipedia isn't about achieving sociopolitical goals.  We're not here to right great wrongs.  The problem of having WikiProjects specifically focused on a given subset of people is that it becomes a honeypot for non-neutral activism, which is something Wikipedia is not for.  We don't have WikiProject White people and we don't have WikiProject Black people.  We've got WikiProject Discrimination which focuses quite a bit on race, but I wouldn't be averse to having WikiProject Racial issues.  In contrast, we've got WikiProject Women, WikiProject Feminism, WikiProject Gender Studies, WikiProject Women's History Month, WikiProject Jewish women and WikiProject Men's Issues.  Sectioning off different segments of the population by their immutable characteristics and giving them each a WikiProject to focus on advocacy of their groups just encourages chest-beating tribalism and also implies that it's fine to select content in a biased way as long as the mainspace is NPOV.  I'd contrast this with religions.  Example: WikiProject Christianity and WikiProject Islam shouldn't be merged because there's a reasonable argument that editors who are knowledgeable in those fields will find their separation easier to organise.  However, if there was a WikiProject Discrimination against Christians and a WikiProject Islamophobia, I would be in favour of their merging into WikiProject Religious bigotry because any topic which is about something inherently controversial or pertaining to activism will necessarily lead to such biases spilling onto a parallel WikiProject.  So I'm making the argument to merge:
 * WikiProject Women
 * WikiProject Feminism
 * WikiProject Gender Studies
 * WikiProject Women's History Month
 * WikiProject Men's Issues
 * ...into WikiProject Gender Issues for the reasons I've elaborated above. It's either that or have a parallel WikiProject for every given identity and subset thereof which will end up with small, esoteric factions vying for control of things like the featured article spot, because taking the intersection of identities to the infinite level will only result in individualism.    SITH   (talk)   14:21, 7 June 2019 (UTC)




 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or at the WikiProject Council). No further edits should be made to this page.