Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Westerns


 * The following discussion is an archived proposal of the WikiProject below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or the WikiProject Council).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The resulting WikiProject was created at WikiProject Westerns

Description
A WikiProject to organise and enhance many articles covering movies, TV series', actors, directors, et al. that form the vast Westerns genre which has many followers worldwide and date back over 100 years. — Ma&reg;&copy; usBriti sh &#91;chat]''' 18:29, 1 August 2012 (UTC)


 * List of important pages and categories for this proposed group
 * western (genre) (number of pages in this category: 39)
 * western (genre) television series (number of pages in this category: 194)
 * western (genre) film actors (number of pages in this category: 343)
 * western (genre) film directors (number of pages in this category: 44)
 * spaghetti western directors (number of pages in this category: 33)
 * films directed by john ford (number of pages in this category: 135)
 * ... et al.
 * western (genre) (number of pages in this category: 39)
 * western (genre) television series (number of pages in this category: 194)
 * western (genre) film actors (number of pages in this category: 343)
 * western (genre) film directors (number of pages in this category: 44)
 * spaghetti western directors (number of pages in this category: 33)
 * films directed by john ford (number of pages in this category: 135)
 * ... et al.
 * western (genre) (number of pages in this category: 39)
 * western (genre) television series (number of pages in this category: 194)
 * western (genre) film actors (number of pages in this category: 343)
 * western (genre) film directors (number of pages in this category: 44)
 * spaghetti western directors (number of pages in this category: 33)
 * films directed by john ford (number of pages in this category: 135)
 * ... et al.
 * western (genre) television series (number of pages in this category: 194)
 * western (genre) film actors (number of pages in this category: 343)
 * western (genre) film directors (number of pages in this category: 44)
 * spaghetti western directors (number of pages in this category: 33)
 * films directed by john ford (number of pages in this category: 135)
 * ... et al.


 * List of WikiProjects currently on the talk pages of those articles
 * Please invite these and any other similar groups to join the discussion about this proposal. See WikiProject Council/Directory to find similar WikiProjects.




 * Why do you want to start a new group, instead of joining one of these existing groups?
 * There is no specific American TV task force dedicated to Westerns in the same way as there is for Soap Operas and other recognised genres such as Sci-fi and related themes. Westerns cover hundreds (perhaps thousands) of hugely successful movies and series', actors and directors, many of which are recognised as having significant cultural importance by the American Film Institute, giving added notability, unlike most fictional genres. A dedicated WikiProject may better serve to organise these titles, as they are all currently without a parent project to maintain them with the due respect such a major internationally recognised genre deserves.

"The Encyclopedia of Westerns" (ISBN 978-0816044566, published 2003, pp.528) apparently has 3500+ entries, including American and Italian-made Westerns, plus silent era entries, produced since 1903 to about 2002. Though not necessarily all notable, and some earlier ones are probably lost, I expect that a fair few of these currently have Wiki articles in need of improvement, rating and such.

Support
Please specify whether or not you would join the project.
 * 1) — Ma&reg;&copy; usBriti sh &#91;chat]''' 18:29, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) — I wouldn't join the project since I don't have much interest in the genre, but there is no fundamental reason to oppose its existence. It is a substantial genre with a movie, TV, and literary presence and other genre specific projects exist such as WikiProject Horror and WikiProject Science Fiction. Betty Logan (talk) 22:16, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 3) I could probably see myself indirectly working within the project; Morricone and some of the spaghetti westerns interest me so I'll probably twiddle with them eventually. I think the proposed scope here is more than big enough to warrant creation.  GRAPPLE   X  12:40, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 4) — I would join, I don't know how active I would be in said project but I would join. As a representative of Wiki-project Oklahoma I have noticed over time how little support Western TV, Movies and others get from dedicated users who have the knowledge to maintain them and as such try to give the ones that fall under WP:Ok's jurisdiction my watchful eye. So I would really like to see this wikiproject formed and would be willing to help it along in its formation.-- Dch eagle | GO TEAM USA  12:49, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 5) — I would join such a project. Monkeyzpop (talk) 21:00, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 6) — Support The genre is widespread, long-standing & persistent, & coverage under one WP umbrella makes real sense. This would also cover comics, too, I would think, so Kid Colt, Outlaw & Lobo (among others) would be included.  TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  00:36, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 7) This is a good idea, and it's surprising that it doesn't already exist. I'm unlikely to join as an active member, but I would like to help to bring Ennio Morricone back to GA status. Dementia13 (talk) 13:28, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
Would this also cover novels? Westerns were novels before they were films. Or stageshows (such as Wild Bill's travelling show) etc ? -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 05:49, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure. I don't read them myself so I've been unable to identify any novels or authors who are notable and have articles. I am aware that many movies do state "From a story by ..." during the credits though. I suppose it would make sense for this project to attempt to cover them also, perhaps a task force might be required, to play a minor role in managing literature supplementary to the TV/Film articles. We'll have to see what people think if the project is approved and when it is launched, at which time you'd be invited to comment further on ideas. Ma&reg;&copy; usBriti sh &#91;chat]''' 09:51, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Louis L'amour for one, and there's Category:Western (genre) novels; -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 06:51, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I figure novels are a given; less sure about Wild Bill though. His show is less American-Frontier-fiction than a museum piece. Stageshows like Annie Get Your Gun would fit better, though. GRAPPLE   X  00:40, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Looking at Wild West Shows I would imagine it and Buffalo Bill fit into the "Westerns" genre enough to warrant falling under the scope of this proposed project, at least to help administer, rate and improve them alongside WikiProject United States who pretty much cover anything American, whereas this project aims to cover more genre-specific articles. I imagine, if this project took off, within a year or so it might have a healthy 3,000–5,000 articles under its wing.. upto 10,000 if a lot of new articles are created or developed from Stubs as a result of overwhelming popularity. I think that would be a good number for a young project to manage in terms of semi-fictional articles, if membership is good. Given that Westerns have never really died out, just kind of dwindled as filming technology is ironically "too good", i.e. people prefer the gritty film look to sharp HD quality for this genre, and yet is on the rise again, I hope that indicates a lot of potential input in an area that is not generally controversial, and has a lot of history and celebrities behind it. <font color="#001C56">Ma<font color="#B40000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#B40000">iti sh &#91;chat]''' 01:53, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

There appears to be enough support to start the project -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 06:52, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm going to wait a bit longer - this page has only been open for four days. I want to see if there is any more support and ideas first before rushing into things, as setting up a new project is going to be a big task which will take time and needs doing carefully. <font color="#001C56">Ma<font color="#B40000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#B40000">iti sh &#91;chat]''' 12:38, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Project setup
I'm in the process of setting up the skeleton of the project pages on WikiProject Westerns, such as categories, assessment pages, sub-pages, project templates, etc – it's taking a bit of doing, so bear with me, as I don't want to rush this, as bots need to be arranged to create statistics tables, etc. Should anyone have any thoughts, suggestions or concerns, please post them here, or on my personal talk page, rather than start altering or creating new pages, as there is a lot to do, and it's very hard to keep track of – once I think I've got everything organised, we'll go ahead and move the discussions, etc more formally to the project talk pages and plan what needs to be done to complete the setup, and how we want to proceed as a new project team, before we start tagging pages, etc. Thanks for the understanding. — <font color="#001C56">Ma<font color="#B40000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#B40000">iti sh {chat} 21:35, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me know if you need a hand with setting anything up, Id be glad to help.-- <font color="#000080">Dch <font color="#000080">eagle | <font color="#007DC4">GO TEAM USA </b> 23:33, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Do you know anything about using WP 1.0 bot? I've followed the instructions at Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Using the bot but get no results. I've not set it up for the importance rating, because I think it's nonsense and a waste of time, but it should be picking up the class rating on the articles I've tested the banner on. Seems only to give redlinks for User:WP 1.0 bot/Tables/Project/Westerns instead of data to be shown on Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Westerns articles by quality statistics. I'm buggered if I know what I'm doing wrong... any ideas? <font color="#001C56">Ma<font color="#B40000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#B40000">iti sh {chat} 00:08, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me take a look.-- <font color="#000080">Dch <font color="#000080">eagle | <font color="#007DC4">GO TEAM USA </b> 00:21, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * OK I've looked at it and everything looks right, the bot that does the leg work only runs every three days and the last it was run was on the 7th so it should run in the next day or so. I will watch everything and if the bot doesn't list things in the next two days I will take a look and see if there's anything I need to fix.-- <font color="#000080">Dch <font color="#000080">eagle | <font color="#007DC4">GO TEAM USA </b> 00:39, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm aware the bot is offline at the moment due to some database issues,according to its talk pages, but I previously tried using the web form, via the link in the instructions, to run it immediately. It's locked out at present, but I tried it 3 or 4 times a couple of days ago to no avail. If you could take a look, once it's back up and running, it would be appreciated. I must have done something wrong, either that, or the present bot issues were resulting in the web form run not creating stats tables also. Cheers, <font color="#001C56">Ma<font color="#B40000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#B40000">iti sh {chat} 01:05, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok Ill take a look and see what I can do. We may just need to wait till the issue with the bot is resolved and is allowed to run on its own. After taking a look on the issues with the bot, it looks like it wont be running anytime soon and there seems to be an issue with the bot and the toolserver from which it runs from that need to be resolved before anything will work. The bots owners are trying to resolve the issue but it may take some time before the bot runs again.-- <font color="#000080">Dch <font color="#000080">eagle | <font color="#007DC4">GO TEAM USA </b> 02:07, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I though as much. No worries, there's no rush.. it's just one in a list of things that need setting up before a project can take off, I expect. Will wait and see what we can figure is wrong, if anything, once they fix it. Thanks again. <font color="#001C56">Ma<font color="#B40000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#B40000">iti sh {chat} 02:50, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem, is there anything else that needs to be done in the mean time.-- <font color="#000080">Dch <font color="#000080">eagle | <font color="#007DC4">GO TEAM USA </b> 03:21, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not entirely sure just yet, as I'm just getting the basic framework setup, and from there anyone and everyone should be able to pitch in to help develop and discuss the future role of the project – at this stage I'm just organising the setup, and laying the foundations.. once we get to a fairly stable stage then we should discuss whether we want a lead-coordinator, a team of coordinators, etc, to manage the administration of the project. We'll have to see how many members the project gets when it is announced though. This bot is going to play an essential role, so getting that up and and running is going to be a top priority, seeing how it logs all the project banners we're going to have to tag onto talk pages so that we have an arrangement of articles to work with. <font color="#001C56">Ma<font color="#B40000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#B40000">iti sh {chat} 04:57, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok then just let me know if you need any help-- <font color="#000080">Dch <font color="#000080">eagle | <font color="#007DC4">GO TEAM USA </b> 06:18, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Tagging Western talk pages
I have begun tagging article talk pages with the banner; about 300 items now added to Category:Westerns articles by quality, so far. If anyone is willing to assist in adding films, TV series, actors, directors, novels, etc, please feel free to use the aforementioned template (see Template:WikiProject Westerns for detailed usage notes) – the majority of the articles in Category:Category-Class Westerns articles need to be tagged. I have not left any article "Unassessed" but have based ratings on a cursory assessment of the article, as far as B-Class. Most ratings fall in line with other project banners, though in some cases where Stub/Start-Class articles have been developed a little since their review, a C or B rating may be required. A-Class ratings should not be applied, at present, until we can determine an A-Class Review process by our members; observe GA/FA/FL ratings, which have Wikiwide scope: simply mark anything with A-Class potential as B-Class and make a note of those articles for future review, so as not to crowd the "Unassessed" category with quality articles, and confuse people as to why we have an instant backlog. So far, sadly, most Westerns articles are fairly low-quality, usually simple plot/cast synopsis of films. A lot will need to be done, as the project looks to improve articles in the future. Cheers, <font color="#001C56">Ma<font color="#B40000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#B40000">iti sh {chat} 04:25, 13 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Now at 450. The following actors full Western filmography have been added, to save people checking:
 * John Wayne
 * Clint Eastwood
 * Lee Van Cleef
 * Henry Fonda
 * Yul Brynner
 * Audie Murphy
 * Maureen O'Hara
 * Dean Martin
 * <font color="#001C56">Ma<font color="#B40000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#B40000">iti sh {chat} 23:16, 13 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Upto 478 528 542. Directors' Westerns filmography added:
 * Sam Peckinpah
 * Henry Hathaway
 * John Ford
 * Raoul Walsh
 * <font color="#001C56">Ma<font color="#B40000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#B40000">iti sh {chat} 16:30, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * ''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or at the WikiProject Council). No further edits should be made to this page.