Wikipedia:WikiProject Film/Peer review/Black Book (film)

Black Book (film) [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]]

 * The goal is assessment as a Good article
 * The peer review is requested by Ilse@ 18:56, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Lead

 * "It is the Dutch submission for the Academy Award" Shouldn't this be in the past tense?
 * I changed it, but since the nominations will be announced this month, I thought present tense was appropriate. - Ilse@ 06:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Black Book was the most visited Dutch film in 2006." Is "visited" the right word. I know what you're trying to say, but I think there might be a more common word (the most seen? the best attended? or the highest grossing?)
 * I changed the sentence to: "Black Book was the Dutch film with the highest box office gross in 2006." - Ilse@ 06:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "At the time of its release, it was the most expensive Dutch film ever made" Has anything surpassed it yet?
 * This is how WikiProject Films/Style guidelines proposed to state this information. It has not been surpassed, but this way the text remains correct when more expensive films will be released. - Ilse@ 06:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I added a link to a list of most expensive Dutch films, I think this solves the problem - Ilse@ 08:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed.--Supernumerary 23:59, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Plot

 * Why are you wikilinking the actors twice in the plot? It looks like you wrote one, wrote the other, and then forgot to remove the excess links.
 * I tried to remove these links already, but User:Patrick stated: "keep the links in the plot info to make it self-contained, the part before the spoiler warning is just for people who do not want to see the rest)". I disagreed with him, but didn't see a point in re-reverting it. I have now removed the links again. - Ilse@ 06:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The reason the links are unnecessary is that anyone who avoids the spoilers will get the links from the spoiler free section. Anyone who reads the spoilers will already have the links. Plus they're in the cast section.--Supernumerary 20:57, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "to flee the Nazi-occupied part of the Netherlands to the liberated southern part of the country, by boat" Change it "to flee from" to match "from" and "to". The "by boat" is tacked on, and you should trying playing around with the wording to make it fit better.
 * I changed the sentence to "In 1944, the young Jewish woman Rachel Steinn tries to flee by boat, together with her family and other Jews, from the Nazi-occupied part of the Netherlands to the liberated southern part of the country." - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "However, they are attacked by the Germans and she is the only survivor; she does not succeed in fleeing outside the occupied territory but is not caught." It needs a comma and to be reworded.
 * I have split and reworded the sentence. - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Rachel joins a resistance group, and under the alias Ellis de Vries manages to get friendly with the German SD officer Ludwig Müntze (Sebastian Koch), and to bug the office." Missing commas and one two many "and"s.
 * I have split the sentence. - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "She gets a job in the SD office. She really falls in love with Müntze. He is not as bad for the Dutch as other German officers. For example, he refuses to obey the rule to kill 40 innocent Dutch citizens to revenge the killing by the resistance group of a Dutch traitor. For this Müntze is imprisoned and sentenced to death." This is choppy. Did she get the job after bugging the office because then you could combine that sentence with the other easily (you could still combine it if not). "to revenge" should be "to avenge"
 * I have rewritten these sentences and used "to avenge". - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "The resistance group plans to free a number of their imprisoned men. Rachel is only willing to participate if they free Müntze too. Reluctantly they agree. However, the attempt fails and many prisoners and rescuers are killed." Choppy again.
 * I have rewritten the sentences. - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Rachel gets caught and imprisoned by the Nazis." change to "Rache is captured and imprisoned by the Nazis." One should try to avoid the word "get" whenever possible because it sounds informal.
 * I changed the sentence to the proposed "is captured". - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "They have discovered the bug and use it make the resistance group listening to the transmitted sound" How about dropping "listening to the transmitted sound"?
 * I removed the "listening to the ...". - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "The country is liberated, and Rachel is imprisoned as traitor. It turns out that physician Hans Akkermans, who supposedly was in the resistance movement, was actually involved in the devastatingly ending refugee trips, thus enriching himself. This man tries to kill Rachel with a large dose of insulin. She manages to survive by eating a lot of chocolate as an antidote." Lots of problems here.
 * "It turns out" is a colloquialism and should be avoided.
 * I removed the "It turns out". - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "devastatingly ending refugee trips" why not just "devastating refugee trips"? (or did he end them?(in that case it would be "devastatingly ending the refugee trips"))
 * I changed it to "devastatingly ending the refugee trips". - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "The country is liberated, and Rachel is imprisoned as traitor." Why not "When the country is liberated, Rachel ..."
 * I changed the sentence. - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "thus enriching himself" How exactly did he enrich himself? Paid off by the Germans? Robbed the dead refugees?
 * I am not sure this is in the film, so I would like to leave it open. - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "This man tries to kill Rachel with a large dose of insulin. She manages to survive by eating a lot of chocolate as an antidote." This could be made one sentence. "manages to survive" and "a lot" are both informal.
 * I changed both elements. - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Rachel's innocence is revealed" Revealed by her or discovered by someone else?
 * I changed it into "Rachel proves her innocence". - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "together with a man from the resistance they smuggle the physician and the money and jewels he has stolen, together in a coffin, to a quiet place, where they seal the coffin and slowly kill him by suffocation." Polysyndeton? It's also very awkward.
 * I have rewritten this sentence completely. - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Much better. Now we know what the black book from the title is.--Supernumerary 23:59, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "easily adapts to each situation" Should be in the past tense and maybe use "coped".
 * I have changed the sentence. - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I changed it as well. Take a look and see which you prefer.--Supernumerary 23:59, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Things seem idyllic for Rachel and her family... until bombs start going off in the distance, an air raid siren goes off and soldiers take positions at the front of the kibbutz. It's October 1956, and the Suez Crisis has broken out."
 * Do not use an ellipsis! You are not building suspense for the story but trying to inform a reader.
 * I have rewritten the sentence. - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "bombs start going off" They hear bombs in the distance? "start going off" is informal.
 * I have changed this too. - Ilse@ 11:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikilink or explain "kibbutz".
 * I added a link to kibbutz. - Ilse@ 07:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "It's" should be "it is". Again formality is needed.
 * I changed it to "it is". - Ilse@ 07:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "has broken out" sounds informal.
 * I changed it to "started". - Ilse@ 07:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This paragraph is much better after your changes!--Supernumerary 23:59, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Cast

 * For the cast section only use appositives for those characters not described in the plot.
 * I removed the appositives. - Ilse@ 06:38, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You went one step too far. You definitely need the "Actor as Character". I've added them in.--Supernumerary 20:57, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it would be better to keep them, despite WikiProject Films/Style guidelines. - Ilse@ 07:51, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * They're just guidelines, so you can break them if you want.--Supernumerary 20:57, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You should explain who Kees, Joop, Theo, Rob, and Maarten are.--Supernumerary 23:59, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added explainations. - Ilse@ 00:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Production

 * The writing section of production needs to be in the past tense.
 * I changed some present tense to past tense, but not the generic statements about the film/story that remain true. - Ilse@ 06:42, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "In Black Book the family of Rachel Steinn tries to cross in the Biesbosch, where these attempts actually took place." Maybe say that she tried to cross there in the plot.
 * I changed the sentence. - Ilse@ 09:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "to 'cross' to" Why the single quotes?
 * The word crossen is used in Dutch specifically in referring to these attempts. I changed the sentence to make it clearer. - Ilse@ 09:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "entrapped by Dutch policemen" Where the entrapped or trapped?
 * Jews that tried to flee with their belongings were entrapped, robbed and killed. I changed the sentence to make it clearer. - Ilse@ 09:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "San Fu Maltha, who produced the film together with three other producers, tried to economize on different parts such as the scenes in Israel, that could have been left out without changing the plot, but this was not negotiable for Paul Verhoeven." Long sentence that needs to be rephrased or split.
 * I have spit the sentence. - Ilse@ 09:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "It is said that Paul Verhoeven and San Fu Maltha paid for the trip to Israel out of their own salaries." Said by whom?
 * I do not remember the source, so until I do I have &lt;!-- hidden --&gt; the sentence. - Ilse@ 10:29, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Because of financing problems the filming did not start as planned in 2004,[6] but was delayed until August 2005.[7]" There should not be a comma there. It's your call whether to move the ref though.
 * I removed the comma and moved the reference. - Ilse@ 09:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "news got out" informal
 * I changed it to "was announced". - Ilse@ 09:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "coproduction" is a red link? Look for an appropriate section in production or elsewhere.
 * I cannot find any appropriate section about coproductions. - Ilse@ 09:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikilink one of the euro signs.
 * I added a wikilink. - Ilse@ 09:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Production company Fu Works and the creditors settled the case." How did they settle it? (Oh and you have an extra space after the period.)
 * I changed the sentence. - Ilse@ 10:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "There was attentention for details in the film. Several requisites were reproduced from originals from the 1940s" "Attention" is misspelled. I think it should be "attention to details". Also "originals" and "from the 1940s" is redundant.
 * I removed redundant "from originals". - Ilse@ 10:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "1100 or 1200 extra" not sure about wikistyle, but I would say add commas.
 * I leave it like this. - Ilse@ 10:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Already during the shooting" drop the "already".
 * I removed the word "Already". - Ilse@ 10:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Reception

 * "where it was part" change to "as part"
 * I changed it to "as part". - Ilse@ 10:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "HRH" What??
 * HRH means His Royal Highness, this is the formal style to refer to the prince, I included it in the link to make it more clear. - Ilse@ 06:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "were mayor of The Hague Wim Deetman, minister Hans Hoogervorst, and minister Karla Peijs." Appositives over one word should be set off with commas. I would suggest flipping what is the noun and what is the appositive here.
 * I flipped the noun and appositive for Wim Deetman. - Ilse@ 06:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "The Dutch press is divided about the film." Are they still?
 * I changed it into past tense. - Ilse@ 07:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Rutger Hauer" from Soldier of Orange?
 * She compares the two films and makes a remark about the main characters, I think "Rutger Hauer" should not be added in the first sentence. - Ilse@ 07:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Black book" should be italicized in the quote from the Observer, but I won't do it without checking the original.
 * It is bold in the original, so I didn't add italics in the quote. - Ilse@ 07:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You consistently misspell "successful".
 * Thank you for changing these misspellings. - Ilse@ 07:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Golden Film (100,000 visitors)" Again I'm not sure if "visitors" is the right word (observers? spectators? audience?).
 * The Netherlands Film Fund uses 'cinema visits', 'visitors' and 'tickets sold' as equivalents in their (Dutch) press release. Since there are objections to 'visitors' I changed it to 'tickets sold'. - Ilse@ 07:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "most visited" viewed?
 * I changed this the same way as in the lead section. - Ilse@ 07:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "As of December 31, 2006 the box office gross-to-date" drop the "to-date", and change that sentence to the past tense.
 * I removed "-to-date". - Ilse@ 07:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "It won the award in three categories" maybe "it won in three categories"?
 * I changed it to "it won in three categories". - Ilse@ 07:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "The film is the Dutch submission" tense?
 * I changed this the same way as in the lead section. - Ilse@ 07:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

List of nominations and awards

 * It needs cites for the award section (even if they are repeats).
 * I added references. - Ilse@ 09:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Other

 * You should consider adding what happened to their careers after the film, but it should pass GA regardless.--Supernumerary 01:48, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe it is still a little early to describe the influence of the film on the carreers of the actors. - Ilse@ 10:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I have taken into account all the above remarks to improve the article. I hope it will pass the Good article nomination. - Ilse@ 11:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)