Wikipedia:WikiProject Greece/Peer review/Maniots

Maniots
I just finished revamping the article. I think it has the potential to achieve GA or higher. But before I do anything I want to have some outside opinions. Thanks. Kyriakos 13:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yannismarou
Nice effort. The major problems IMO are: 1) the article tends to become lengthy, but, at the same time, it under-analyzes certain aspects (culture, folklore) there are many typos, 3) the prose is in some parts choppy. In detail:
 * "The Maniots are deemed an ancient Greek people who descend from the Lacedaemonians (Spartans).[dubious — see talk page]". I think this "dubious tagging" should go. Whatever is dubious should be discussed within the article with the presentation of all the scientifiv evidence of all sides.
 * I haven't finished the lead section next, it was next on my agenda.
 * "The history of the Maniots is a history both of suffering and of bravery." Possibly POV and un-cyclopedic.
 * "Under the Mycenaeans, Mani flourished.[2] At Cape Tenaro, there was a temple to Apollo which was described as important as Delphi.[2] The temple is recorded to have been give by Apollo to Poseidon in exchange for Delphi.[2]" Choppy prose.
 * "From Theodosius I to the Avar invasion". I think it is inadvisable to wikilink headings.
 * "In 468, Genseric of the Vandals, during his invasion of the Peloponnese tried to land at Kenipolis, in Mani but the Maniot inhabitants of the area, made him retreat after he sustained heavy losses.[". Avoid such stubby paragraphs.
 * Do not wikilink single years; only full dates (December 15, 468).
 * "Eastern Roman Emperor Constantine VII (reigned 945 - 959) wrote the De Administrando Imperio, which was written between 948 and 952." Wrote which was written?
 * "Yet, the Maniots (like many other Greeks) established a dualistic identity encompassing both their ancient traditions and cultural values, as well as the moral ideals of Christianity." Vague and uncited.
 * Try not to have uncited paragraphs. There are some of the kind.
 * "and Geoffrey I Villehardouin defeated the Peloponnesian Greeks under at the Battle of the Olive Grove of Koundouros (1205) and made the Peloponnese in the Principality of Achaea." This "under" looks to me redundant.
 * "He used the newly captured fortress of Monemvasia to keep the Tsakones at bay, he built the castle at Mystras in the Tayegatus mountains over looking Sparta to contain the Melingi." Isn't an "and" missing here?
 * "Mani seemed to have been dominated by the Nikliani family who were refugees.[21]Social Castes of Mani[›]" This note does not work.
 * "Kladas reached the Kingdom of Naples and from their he became a mercenary leader." From "there" you mean?
 * I see many typos. The article needs a careful reading.
 * I went over the article with spell check.


 * Some sections like "18th century" are getting long. Maybe you could create sub-articles, so that the article does not get too long.
 * "The Maniots fought them but soon the Ottoman's superior number won them the battle and all the Maniots were killed except for Mavromichalis who was serious wounded.[37] The Turks took Mavromichalis and tortured him to death.[37] The Turko-Albanians attacked Almiro and Vergas on Mani's north-eastern border. As they camped there over night, the Maniots surrounded them and attacked them. They Turko-Albanians were defeated and lost 1,700 men while the Maniots lost thirty-six men and three women.[37] The Turks retreated and the left the Maniots in peace." Choppy prose again IMO.
 * Constantinos Kolokotronis and Constantine Kolokotronis are different persons? If not, then the names need fixing.
 * "Katsonis' men fleet to land except for Katsonis who with one ships escpaed to Odessa in Russia.[45]" "Fled" to land?
 * Sometimes, reading the article, I feel bombarded with events! Not be able to breathe a bit! I'm not sure I can propose the solution that will resolve this problem. Maybe sub-articles where minor events would be in-depth analyzed (and not here) could help. Or maybe a prose offering some infos about the major persons, places and events coming and going.
 * "On the 23 March". I think the proposed by MoS form is "on March 23".
 * "However, several of the older families and the poorer anchamnomeri". "anchamnomeri"? Do you explain that earlier. If yes, sorry but I must have missed it.
 * It is part of the Social castes notes

I may have missed many more things, but my concentration is at a low level right now! Maybe, I'll read the article again and come back with further suggestions.--Yannismarou 20:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "In Kitta, this division caused blood shed when the king's supporter started fighting the other group under the command of Giogaros Skylakakis." "Giorgaros" maybe?
 * "Now Mani is divided into two nomos, Laconia and Messenia. Mani has around 18,000 inhabitants with the most important and populous town being Gytheio. Mani's main source of income is tourism. The most famous of them all are the Caves of Diro, which are two caves that have underwater rivers flowing through them." I don't know if this paragraph should be part of this article or of Mani peninsula. In this article you speak about the people.
 * OK with history. You analyze it. But what about ethnology (in the lead you say: "The Maniots are deemed an ancient Greek people who descend from the Lacedaemonians (Spartans).[dubious — see talk page]"), culture and folklore of Maniots. I'm afraid the article is becoming more of "History of Mani" or "History of Maniots".
 * Fix properly the online sources you have in your citations using the adequate templates (e.g. Template:cite web or Template:cite news).


 * Thanks a lot for the review Yanni. I will try to fix all the problem you have. I will also add a cultre section for the article. Once again thanks. Kyriakos 22:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)