Wikipedia:WikiProject Highways/Assessment/A-Class Review/List of Recreational Roads in Texas

List of Recreational Roads in Texas

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

review
 * Suggestion: Promote to A-Class
 * Nominator's comments: As a part of my attempt to get Recreational Roads in Texas to a good topic, I've decided to go ahead and try to nominate this to be the first A-class assessed list. I'm not sure if this is allowed, but per this discussion and this one, it seemed like nominating the list at ACR was suggested instead of going straight for FLC.


 * Background aside, here is the main article for Texas' Recreational Road System. The state's smallest highway system (out of 10, counting FMs and RMs separately and not including special routes or toll roads), it contains just 10 designated routes and 1 former route. Four of the routes have separate, stand-alone articles, while the other were all merged from probably the shortest good articles ever. ACR and FLC comments appreciated.


 * Nominated by: Awardgive. Help out with Project Fillmore County 22:59, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * First comment occurred: 08:34, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Image Check by Nbound
I will further hold off on giving a formal support until others have looked into this list article first (and how we will assess it). As the is the first list here and therefore a guinea pig, I dont not want to support prematurely. -- Nbound (talk) 08:34, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) File:Recreational Road 2 map 1940.png - PD-US-no notice - Need to move down to RE2's section
 * 2) File:USACE Proctor Lake Texas.jpg - PD-USGov-Military-Army-USACE - Not sure this image is needed, the road cannot be seen.
 * 3) File:Rayburn Dam1.jpg - PD-USGov-Military-Army-USACE - Caption might read better as "RE 255 passing in front of Rayburn Dam (bottom right)" (or similar)
 * 4) Texas Recreational Road shields (all) - either  PD-MUTCD or PD by Author  (await new tags)
 * Thanks for the image review. I swapped the RE 2 map for one of RE 11 (another image needs review now), and moved it to RE 11's subsection. I'm holding off removing the Proctor Lake picture while I look for a better image. Thanks for the review, I can understand your uncertainty about this. - Awardgive. Help out with Project Fillmore County 17:27, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Removed RE 6 image. I couldn't find a replacement. - Awardgive. Help out with Project Fillmore County 17:53, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * 5. File:Recreational Road 11 map 1961.png - PD-US-no notice or PD-US-not renewed - extends into RE255 on wide displays, consider using or  to fix. -- Nbound (talk) 22:48, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed. I've also replaced all of the shields licensing to PD-MUTCD, as its the proper license. Thanks, - Awardgive. Help out with Project Fillmore County 23:14, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You can't say PD-MUTCD for state highway markers except the circles, as they aren't listed in FHWA's MUTCD. They may be listed in a Texas MUTCD, or they may be in a Texas supplement to the federal MUTCD that also bears the same copyright release.  Imzadi 1979  →   23:58, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * They are listed in the Texas MUTCD, which has basically the same copyright release. Texas MUTCD Introduction, page I-1, section 04 states: "Any traffic control device design or application provision contained in this Manual shall be considered to be in the public domain. Traffic control devices contained in this Manual shall not be protected by a patent, trademark, or copyright, except for the Interstate Shield and any items owned by FHWA or the State of Texas". Since there's no PD-MUTCD-TX or something like that, I believe that it is still correct to use PD-MUTCD. - Awardgive. Help out with Project Fillmore County 01:32, 11 July 2013 (UTC).
 * You will need to create your own PD-MUTCD-TX tag, or use an applicable generic one. While technicially the right license type, its inappropriate to use it if its information is not directly applicable. Thanks for the help with that one Imzadi1979 :). -- Nbound (talk) 07:13, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Another option is to copy what was done with Michigan's markers, such as File:M-28.svg.  Imzadi 1979  →   07:15, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Updated all using the new PD-MUTCD-Tex license. - Awardgive. Help out with Project Fillmore County 17:12, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

As currently stands:
 * 1) File:Recreational Road 2 map 1940.png - PD-US-no notice
 * 2) File:USACE Proctor Lake Texas.jpg - PD-USGov-Military-Army-USACE
 * 3) File:Rayburn Dam1.jpg - PD-USGov-Military-Army-USACE
 * 4) Texas Recreational Road shields (all) -  either PD-MUTCD or PD by Author  PD-MUTCD-Tex See note below...
 * 5) File:Recreational Road 11 map 1961.png - PD-US-no notice or PD-US-not renewed
 * I would like a US opinion on whether the Rec shields are owned by " except for the Interstate Shield and any items owned by FHWA or the State of Texas"? -- Nbound (talk) 01:58, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It has been suggested these shields are possibly PD-textlogo, Im feeling a bit out of my depth on this, so Ill leave a neutral response and defer to someone else, the bulk of the work is already done. -- Nbound (talk) 03:19, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It has been suggested these shields are possibly PD-textlogo, Im feeling a bit out of my depth on this, so Ill leave a neutral response and defer to someone else, the bulk of the work is already done. -- Nbound (talk) 03:19, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to be on a wiki-break from the 22nd until the 27th, and will have no Internet access, so I'll be unable to respond to any comments for a while. Sorry for any inconveniences. - Awardgive. Help out with Project Fillmore County 06:01, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Neutral - Someone more familiar with US shielding/copyright should take over. (Otherwise it would have been a tentative support pending reviews) -- Nbound (talk) 03:21, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Update

Review by Rschen7754
I will review the article. --Rschen7754 04:01, 7 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose. I was planning on giving this a full review, but there still remains a grand total of only one secondary source, with a very passing mention of the system. All we have here are raw statistics, which is useful, don't get me wrong. But we have no clue as to why the system was built or anything like that. Without that information, which was specifically asked for repeatedly and by multiple reviewers at the last FLC, I don't think it's worth my time to do a full review. --Rschen7754 09:38, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Review by Fredddie
I looked over the article's changes from the last time I reviewed the article, and I still don't see any serious effort made to add secondary sources. Of the 55 references in use, 36 of them are TxDOT (including its predecessor) and 11 of them are online maps (Google and Bing). That leaves 8 references that are not obviously DOT- or map-related. Let's review them.
 * 1) Parent, Laurence (2008). Official Guide to Texas State Parks and Historic Sites (2nd ed.). Austin, TX: University of Texas Press. p. 173. ISBN 978-0-292-71726-8.
 * If it had a section about the highway system, I would expect this book to be cited more than once.
 * 1) A.I.D. Associates (1972). Sam Rayburn Reservoir and Dam B (Map). Cartography by A.I.D. Associates (1972 ed.).
 * Map.
 * 1) National Park Service (2013). Amistad National Recreation Area Map (Map). Cartography by National Park Service. Retrieved June 4, 2013.
 * Map.
 * 1) Shell Oil Company (1956). Highway Map of Texas (Map). 1 in=26 mi. Cartography by H.M. Gousha Company (1956 ed.). Section K7.
 * Map.
 * 1) U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (August 2004). Proctor Lake (Map). Cartography by U.S. Department of Defense. Retrieved June 23, 2012.
 * Map.
 * 1) Staff. "O. H. Ivie Reservoir". Handbook of Texas Online. Texas State Historical Association. Retrieved June 4, 2013.
 * This doesn't mention the RM designation at all, so it can rightfully be tagged.
 * 1) Kerr, Sharon (July 18, 2007). "Hutchinson, Cornyn introduce federal corridor". Jasper Newsboy. Retrieved September 6, 2012.
 * Doesn't really mention the system, just RE 255, and not even very well.
 * 1) Staff. "Texas Update". A Multi-State Coalition for Transportation Improvements. Gulf Coast Strategic Highway Coalition. Retrieved September 5, 2012.
 * Doesn't really cite anything about the system.

Turns out four of the ones that weren't so obvious were maps. So let's recap. 55 sources and all but four of them are the DOT or a map. None of the four are used particularly well, either. Now, I understand the value of maps, but they can't really tell you much about the system – just where the highway is.

At the last FLC, I asked for secondary sources. You found four, but they're not very good. I suggest finding more. Until then, I still oppose. –Fredddie™ 04:08, 8 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it.  No further edits should be made to this discussion.