Wikipedia:WikiProject Highways/Assessment/A-Class Review/New York State Route 28A

New York State Route 28A
review
 * Suggestion: Promote to A-Class
 * Nominator's comments: Well, well, well. It's be an insane long amount of time since I had my last ACR and I have several articles within close range of being nominated. I have every intent in hurrying this to FAC as it passes (if it passes) and its been really too long for me. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 21:14, 24 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Nominated by: Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 21:14, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
 * First comment occurred: 04:20, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Review by Fredddie
I will begin reviewing this article. –Fredddie™ 04:20, 26 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Infobox and lead
 * 1) The most striking thing in the top part of the article is "circa 1933". I would like to see the actual date if possible.
 * Emphasis on if possible. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Consider revising "19.82 miles" in the lead to something more prosaic like "nearly 20 miles". There will probably be disagreement below, but I am of the thinking that it's OK to use fuzzy math when it's appropriate.
 * Done, but disagreed. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't say you had to do it, just consider it. There was a discussion about this not too long ago if you recall. –Fredddie™ 18:00, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Last sentence of the lead, you should make it clear that no action has occurred still.
 * Done. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Route description
 * 1) I'm sure you're sick of hearing it but I like "NY 28A begins at..." over "NY 28A's western terminus is at..." any day.
 * Done. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) You should mention early on in the RD that the route is in Catskill Park
 * Done. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Is Hamlet (New York) a relevant wikilink to this article?
 * The New York definition of hamlet is different from the general definition. Also given every article has it, I see no issue with it. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) "...crossing Esopus Creek just above where it empties into the nearby Ashokan Reservoir."
 * 2) *"Above"? The bridge/culvert is on top of the mouth of the creek?
 * 3) *"Nearby" says to me that the reservoir isn't really relevant to the road; it's just there. We know that's not the case.
 * Done. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) You might want to double check all the -ing verbs; most of them should be using the present tense.
 * 2) The highway subsequently turns...→The highway turns...
 * Done. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) How far is a short distance? (context needed)
 * Done. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Consider revising "buffered by woods and posted and fenced"
 * Done. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) How large is the bridge? (context needed)
 * Doesn't even need to be worded that way. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) You can't say "another long bridge" (my emphasis) when you never said you crossed a long bridge in the first place.
 * Done. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Houses cannot dwindle no matter how hard they try.
 * Clarified. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) What do you mean by "posted as city land"?
 * Removed. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 05:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) You call it a spillway road, but that's not right. The road is atop the dam.  A spillway is a reservoir's emergency high water outlet.
 * Clarified. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) You should make it a little clearer that the covered bridge is not on Beaverkill Road. It read that way to me.
 * Changed. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) I have a couple issues with the "Lemon Squeeze" sentence.
 * 2) *Is it the narrow point of the reservoir? It's not explained or cited very well.
 * 3) *According to Street View, it is very much open to traffic and is signed "To NY 28"
 * Lemon Squeeze, technically is a local's term for the closed Monument Road, but I've removed this as a jargon-type issue. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) I wouldn't ever use "due east" on a curvy road like this. I would use it for the last 20 miles of Iowa 44, though.
 * Changed. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) That quadrangle map is nearly 50 years old. Are you sure the Blue Line is still accurate?
 * Does this suffice in answering that? Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * We should add the blue line to the KML. –Fredddie™ 21:07, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Where you say "another spillway", it should just be "the spillway".
 * Changed. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) I think there are closer landmarks to the eastern end of the reservoir than Stone Church Road. Namely Basin Road or the eastern end at NY 28.
 * Changed. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * History
 * 1) "...in the reservoir's path..." I don't think path is the right word here.
 * Changed. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Is there a copy of the 1909 court order somewhere?
 * Does this suffice? Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:50, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * This should be on WS. –Fredddie™ 21:07, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Again, it appears to me that the road across the reservoir is open to traffic.
 * Clarified. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) "Construction resumed on August 12, 2010, after the issues were resolved, and is expected to be completed in December 2011." Was expected?
 * Changed. My fault for when I changed the article around. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Was the project over/under budget?
 * Other than the $5 million number, every other source I've found has said $15 million. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Major intersections
 * 1) I don't like the hamlets listed in the notes column like that. It makes it seem like you're saying it's in one place (the location column), but no really it's here (notes column)
 * That's going to require a change of over 300 articles because almost every NY article has that, the theory being common name of the area. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * External links
 * 1) The KML is wrong in a couple spots. It shows the route as it was before the 2010–12 improvements near the NY 213 junction.
 * Someone else is going to have to do that and my reasons for saying that are rather obvious. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 17:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure. –Fredddie™ 23:59, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed the KML myself. –Fredddie™ 05:21, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Fix these and I'll be sure to support. –Fredddie™ 16:28, 28 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Maybe its the "He who wrote it is blind to error" issue, but I don't think the ing is an issue now. Also, if someone can do the KML and map changes, I'd appreciate it. As for the WS stuff, does this hinge on me doing so because I've never edited WS. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 20:45, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Nah you don't have to do it. I think it would be nice/helpful to be able to wikilink to the decision, that's all. –Fredddie™ 23:59, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Posted a Wikilink. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 23:58, 4 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Support. Looking good now. –Fredddie™ 05:21, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I can pick up the second review, though there may be a bit of a delay. --Rschen7754 07:45, 29 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Preliminary notes
 * Check captions - fragments should not have periods, but complete sentences should.
 * Page numbers?
 * Those condemned... the communities were condemned?
 * c. -> around
 * as of 2013, no action was ever taken. -> had been taken


 * Route description
 * NY 28A's begins - ?
 * less than a 0.5 miles - less than 0.5 miles?
 * separated by woods along with being fenced ?
 * where houses begin to break the woods ?
 * What is a highway garage?
 * and the road above - ?


 * History
 * The latter was -> were
 * of an extended NY 28 - comma after
 * c. again

Rschen7754 04:04, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
 * All done. As mentioned to reviewer on IRC, circa stuff is template. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 04:41, 15 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Support issues resolved. --Rschen7754 04:44, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Image review by Dough4872

 * File:NY Route 28A map.svg - PD-self, has GIS sources.
 * File:NY 28A along Ashokan Reservoir.jpg - CC-BY-SA-3.0
 * File:NY 28A at Monument Road.jpg - cc-by-sa-2.0
 * 1) Captions are fine.
 * Support - Images look good.  Dough 48  72  03:37, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Review by Admrboltz

 * While not an FA criterion, you are missing alt text for images.
 * Aside of the fact I object to alt text, every single one I've done has been redone at FAC. If someone wants to go out of their way and do it, fine. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 23:18, 15 December 2013 (UTC)


 * technically has more edits than you on this. This may be an issue once you go beyond ACR to potential FAC.
 * Hasn't edited since July 18 and I am the only one in previous discussions with him who wanted to go ahead with it. He said I could go ahead on the condition I fixed some things. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 23:18, 15 December 2013 (UTC)


 * "Many of the communities along its length, such as West Shokan and Olivebridge, are recreations of those condemned for the reservoir's construction." - I think what you are saying is that communities were forced to relocate? If so, please reword.
 * Done. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 23:18, 15 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Doesn't  make using as of moot...? This is specifically discouraged in the template documentation.
 * Changed. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 23:18, 15 December 2013 (UTC)


 * "The shoreline itself is less than a zero point five miles (0.8 km)" - Looks funny. Later on you use "A quarter-mile" so maybe use "a half-mile".
 * Changed. The template sucks. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 23:18, 15 December 2013 (UTC)


 * You've linked to the 9/11 attack article twice (once in rd, once in history).
 * Done but not in agreement with doing so. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 23:18, 15 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think the current target of S-curve is correct.
 * Delinked. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 23:18, 15 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Inconsistent use of convert/spell and manually converting figures.
 * Done. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 23:18, 15 December 2013 (UTC)


 * "Now in the town of Hurley, it continues to follow the irregular reservoir shoreline to the northeast..." - using the pronoun it just doesn't sound right (there are several instances where you use it).
 * Changed. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 23:18, 15 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Support --  Admr Boltz  23:23, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Spotcheck by Rschen7754

 * Source 7: source doesn't say that it was diverted onto NY 28/A specifically.
 * Source 9: Good on V and CP.
 * Source 11: not seeing the part about "The order was never lifted...". Perhaps I'm missing it?
 * Source 22: Good on V and CP.
 * Source 23: Good on V and CP. --Rschen7754 21:46, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Changed 7 and 11, canning the parts in question. The one attached to 7 was assumable anyway. Mitch 32 (New digs, new life, same old stubborn.) 23:54, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Rschen7754 23:55, 18 December 2013 (UTC)