Wikipedia:WikiProject Martial arts/Article Review/27th May 2010

Added May 27

 * Pencak Silat Sharaf: Martial arts stubs, Muslim martial arts, Silat; Notability
 * Article was already redirected to Pencak Silat Papaursa (talk) 21:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Perguruan Pencak Silat Padjadjaran Nasional: Indonesian martial arts, Martial arts of the Malay archipelago, Silat; Notability
 * AfD No independent sources and no claim to notability--existing isn't enough. Papaursa (talk) 21:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Peter Ralston: American martial artists; Notability
 * Keep if source can be found for his world championship. Even if his championship can't be verified, the fact that the art he founded has branches in several countries may be sufficient for notability. Papaursa (talk) 21:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. Although I believe the article needs significant revision, I tend to agree that it should be kept if the claims can be verified—particularly if his publications turn out to be significant works in the field. Janggeom (talk) 08:18, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Peter Snijders: Dutch judoka; Notability
 * Keep As bronze medalist at world championships he passes WP:ATH. I added a source for that to the article and removed the notability and unreferenced tags. Papaursa (talk) 21:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Phillip Rhee: Martial arts biography stubs; Notability
 * AfD as martial artist, ? as actor Clearly fails WP:MANOTE, not qualified to judge his movie career. Papaursa (talk) 22:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * comment I removed the category defining him as a martial artist. His notability is as an actor. jmcw (talk) 06:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. I would tend to agree that his notability is more as a martial arts actor than just as a martial artist. As far as Tae Kwon-Do practitioners in films go, I would consider him one of the most notable people in this category. Janggeom (talk) 07:59, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * comment I have removed the categories claiming he is a martial artist. jmcw (talk) 18:20, 29 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Pukulan Bongkot: Martial arts of the Malay archipelago; Notability
 * AfD Clearly fails WP:MANOTE. Could find no independent sources to indicate notability. Papaursa (talk) 22:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Pukulan Pentjak Silat Serak: Indonesian martial arts, Silat; Notability
 * Edit and Merge into Pencak Silat As a stand-alone article I'd recommend AfD since it has no sources and doesn't seem to be notable on its own. Papaursa (talk) 22:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Rami Vainionpää: Eskrimadors, Finnish hapkido practitioners; Notability
 * AfD Currently up for PROD as an unreferenced BLP of a non-notable martial artist. Papaursa (talk) 22:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Randolph outrage: Dueling; Notability
 * What has this got to do with martial arts? Papaursa (talk) 22:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I have removed 'dueling' from the 'martial arts' category tree. jmcw (talk) 06:53, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Rape Choke: Mixed martial arts; Notability
 * AfD Don't really care about this, but I do believe unsourced articles (regardless of topic) should be removed since they violate WP:V. Papaursa (talk) 22:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * And I believe that un-sourced article should not be removed if they have the potential to establish WP:V. But I agree that this is a Neologism: it would be better in wiktionary or merge/redirect to Chokehold. jmcw (talk) 07:53, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Side comment--I just think no article should be put into the main space until it is sourced. The instructions on the article wizard seem to be quite clear about the need for sources. Papaursa (talk) 17:28, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Ray Longo: American martial artists; Notability
 * AfD Article has no independent sources and fails to show notability. Papaursa (talk) 22:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Raymond Daniels (martial artist): Martial artists, Martial arts biography stubs; Notability
 * Keep Winner of numerous NBL and NASKA world titles, successful in WCL, won Irish Open (Europe's largest karate event) several times, and was runner-up at the World Professional TKD tournament in Croatis ($50,000 first prize). Papaursa (talk) 00:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Remy Presas: Filipino eskrimadors, Martial arts biography stubs; Notability
 * Keep and improve. I have not done a search for sources, so I might revise this recommendation, but I have certainly heard the name and believe he is a notable figure. If anyone disagrees, I would agree to defer to whatever a search for reliable sources reveals (keep/delete). Janggeom (talk) 08:06, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree the name is well known. I'm just finding it hard to find independent sources.  I haven't done a thorough search, but I'm inclined to think there should be some. Papaursa (talk) 17:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Robert Baker (martial artist): American martial artists, Martial arts biography stubs; Notability
 * AfD Fails WP:MANOTE and I don't think his movie career passes WP:GNG (although the Bruce Lee fanatics may disagree). Papaursa (talk) 00:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * comment I have removed the two categories that claim he is a martial artist. He is an actor. jmcw (talk) 18:17, 29 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Roberto Presas: Filipino eskrimadors; Notability
 * AfD He appears to be non-notable with no independent coverage. However, the martial art he reportedly created Hinigaran Arnis de Mano is currently up for AfD.  If the art is found notable, I'd have to say the creator of the art is, too. Papaursa (talk) 22:29, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. If the article on the art survives, another option is to merge this article into that one; I suppose it depends on whether we can find sufficient verifiable material to justify a separate article. Janggeom (talk) 08:09, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Roland Dantes: Filipino eskrimadors, Martial arts biography stubs; Notability
 * Uncertain As a martial artist I'd say he fails WP:MANOTE, but his acting and bodybuilding careers look notable if they can be sourced. I think it might be tough to get this one deleted via AfD. Papaursa (talk) 22:29, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Ron Duncan: American karateka, American ninjutsu practitioners; Notability
 * AfD Poorly written article that doesn't show notability, unless it can be shown he really is the "father of American ninjutsu." Papaursa (talk) 00:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Search on "father of American ninjutsu" yielded several other names. Most frequent is Stephen K. Hayes. Papaursa (talk) 21:27, 29 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Roy Suenaka: Martial arts biography stubs, Martial arts school founders; Notability
 * Keep if sources can be found If he actually received a Menkyo Kaiden from Morihei Ueshiba, I would consider that proof of notability. Papaursa (talk) 00:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * comment He founded the first aikido dojo in Okinawa and the American International Ki Development and Philosophical Society but no mention of menkyo kaiden . jmcw (talk) 13:55, 30 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Ryan LaFlare: American mixed martial artists, Mixed martial arts biography stubs; Notability
 * AfD According to the notability discussion going on at the MMA project page, "Ring of Combat" is not a major MMA production. I also don't think his low level fights make him "fully professional" since he's not earning enough fighting to be his sole source of income.  That said, it's clearly not fluff and might be a tough sell at AfD. Papaursa (talk) 00:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Ryu-te: Kenpo, Okinawan karate, Traditional karate; Notability
 * AfD I'd say this art doesn't pass WP:GNG. Papaursa (talk) 00:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep I hold the POV that kyūsho is 99% bunk (if it were real, it would be used in MMA.) Oyata, who founded Ryu-te, seems legitimate (if not notable.) On the other hand, George Dillman is a proven fraud but is probably notable because of being a fraud.
 * This article shows a classical dilemma: is the martial art or the founder more notable?
 * I think all the articles in this Pressure point area should be consolidated and re-written: fixing this problem area by nibbling a legitimate but perhaps non-notable person does not improve wikipedia. jmcw (talk) 07:42, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Resolved Left Overs

 * Arnela Odžakovic: Bosnian karateka; Notability
 * Keep Was 5th at WKF world championships in 2006. National sportsman of yaar,  Added sources and removed notability tag. Papaursa (talk) 00:28, 30 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Daniel Acacio: Brazilian mixed martial artists; Notability
 * Keep Fought in PRIDE, which is considered top level MMA. Papaursa (talk) 17:14, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Diego Saraiva: American mixed martial artists; Notability
 * Keep He has fought at what are considered significant MMA events, including UFC. He's lost all 5 of his fights at these events, but (sadly) that's considered irrelevant. Papaursa (talk) 17:14, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Dieter Knüttel: German martial artists; Notability
 * Weak AfD Seems to fail WP:MANOTE, but ranks high in the German hierarchy of Modern Arnis. Papaursa (talk) 17:14, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * John Linebarger: American karateka, American martial artists, Martial arts biography stubs; Notability
 * Keep if sources are found Documented claims of world titles would clearly pass WP:GNG.  Otherwise I'd say he fails WP:MANOTE. Papaursa (talk) 17:14, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Kombatan: Eskrima, Philippine martial arts; Notability
 * Neutral This is an unsourced article about a martial art that seems to have chapters in multiple countries. Papaursa (talk) 17:14, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Modern Arnis: Eskrima, Philippine martial arts; Notability
 * Comment Probably notable, especially if Remy Presas is considered notable. Papaursa (talk) 17:14, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Outpoint: Boxing stubs Status: no action taken
 * AfD as a non-notable WP:NEO. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:41, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * This one might be a good candidate for a Transwiki, I have heard the term used by commentators on MMA events too.--Natet/c 09:50, 12 March 2010 (UTC)