Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Bastille


 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.  No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Promoted --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 09:45, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Bastille

 * Nominator(s): Hchc2009 (talk)

I am nominating this article for A-Class review because it is a popular article on a major French fortification. It has an unusually high number of French inputs for one of the articles I typically work on, and advice on whether I'm compliant with style guidance etc. would be helpful. I'm also not convinced it is yet as easily readable as it could be - opinions on this would also be particularly valued. Many thanks! Hchc2009 (talk) 19:36, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Support Comments: sorry it has taken so long to review. Overall, I found the article easy to read, well referenced and illustrated appropriately. I believe that it meets A-class criteria, but have a number of copy edit suggestions below. Feel free to query anything you don't agree with:
 * on my machine there is a large amount of whitespace due to the table of contents, it is only a suggestion but you might like to limit the size of the TOC to just display level two headers. This can be done by adding ;
 * something missing here, I think: "The Bastille was built in response to threat to Paris during the..." (perhaps try: "The Bastille was built in response to threats to Paris during the..." or "The Bastille was built in response to a threat to Paris during the...";
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * sounds awkward: "on the west of the capital" (perhaps try "in the west of the capital" or "on the western side of the capital");
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * probably needs commas: "and in his absence the Provost of Paris Étienne Marcel took steps to improve the capital's defences" (specifically either side of "Etienne Marcel");
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "formed a broad, crenellated walkway" (I wonder if "crenellated" could be wikilinked - is there a Wikitionary entry maybe?)
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "being awarded 1,200 livres a year" (I wonder if "livres" could be linked to something to allow readers to gain some further understanding")
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * slightly repetitious: "continued to develop. Early modern Paris continued to grow..." (specifically "continued" close together. Perhaps reword slightly);
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * slightly repetitious: "successfully retake Paris. By the time he was eventually successful" (specifically "successfully" and "successful");
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * is this the same thing: "a raid on the Parlement de Paris" and "The Parlement of Paris" (if so, the wikilink probably should be moved to the first mention);
 * Not done: can you please action this one? AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * slightly repetitious: "across the city and the royal government fled the city in September" (specifically "city", perhaps try: "across the city and the royal government fled in September");
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * not sure that the punctutation is correct here: "most famously including Nicolas Fouquet, his supporters Henry de Guénegaud and Jeannin; Lorenzo de Tonti" (specifically the final semi colon);
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * are "the Parisian lieutenant generale of police" and "the lieutenant general of police" the same thing? If so, the wikilink on the second one should probably be moved to the first;
 * Not done: can you please action this one? AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Moved. Hchc2009 (talk) 11:37, 28 December 2011 (UTC)


 * "By 1711, a 60 strong French military " (I think this should be "By 1711, a 60-strong French military");
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "services of a local midwife for dealing with pregnant prisoners" (sounds a little harsh, perhaps "services of a local midwife for assisting pregnant prisoners");
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * this sentence appears to be uncited and might need a reference: "Despite these changes, the Bastille remained a state prison, subject to special authorities, answering to the monarch of the day and surrounded by a considerable and threatening reputation";
 * Not done: can you please action this one? AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd edited it out at some point while moving text... I've added it back in. Good spot! Hchc2009 (talk) 11:40, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Cheers! Will get onto these, Hchc2009 (talk) 09:06, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * the wikilink for "Voltaire" in the Criticism and reform section should probably be moved to the section above where they are first mentioned;
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * the wikilink for "despotism" in the Criticism and reform section should probably be moved to earlier in the section where it is first mentioned;
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "Revolutionary crowds began to arm themselves during the 13 July..." (probably doesn't need "the" before "13 July");
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "but nonetheless, by the 14 July de Launay was very" (as above);
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "On the morning of the 14 July" (as above);
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * repetition/typo here: "connotations of the Place de la Bastille, and considered initially considered building" (specificially "considered");
 * I've done this. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * this needs a possessive apostrophe: "This body of work influenced historian Simon Schamas 1989 book on the Revolution" ("Schama's 1989 book..."). AustralianRupert (talk) 03:54, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * G'day, I've done most of these now. I wasn't able to do a couple which required access to sources and or specific knowledge. I will leave these to you. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 22:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Quick comments - I made a few style and layout edits. Please check my copyediting and feel free to revert any of them. I'm wondering if the multiple subheaders under "History" are necessary – it may be simpler to have a "Construction" section followed by the centuries and the other sections. You also have multiple chapter citations to a "Dutray-Lecoin and Muzerelle (eds) (2010)", but I don't see an entry for the main book, nor do these chapters have page ranges, which is customary for this sort of citation. Last, I'm not sure what citation style you are using, but I think it's typical to have the period after the year, not the author. Regards, Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 22:25, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added the missing volume - sorry about that! Hchc2009 (talk) 11:37, 28 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Note The ACR has been opened for 1 month and 7 days, and so far, there is only one support. I will close this in three days as non consensus if substantial dialogue does not resume. --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 00:05, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm going to review today so perhaps we can leave it a bit longer... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:50, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Comments -- Wow, this is a massive article and seems to me to cover its subject from every conceivable angle -- nice work!
 * Prose- and detail-wise, performed my usual copyedit, a couple of outstanding things:
 * Marcel was subsequently removed from his post and executed in 1358 -- Did this have anything to do with his part in the Bastille's construction? If so, that should be mentioned; if not, his fate doesn't seem that relevant.
 * You italicise French terms very occasionally, e.g. cachot at one point, but not for the most part -- should be consistent throughout.
 * Structure appears appropriate for the subject.
 * Re. referencing and images, that'll have to wait for tomorrow... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:37, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Now checked every image -- licensing appears okay, though I note that alt text is not present.
 * References look reliable enough to me though I haven't checked that every one of them is cited.
 * No spotchecks done. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:29, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Support – very good, had a quick read as earlier reviews seem to have caught a lot of issues already. Two very minor comments:  Ma &reg;&copy; usBr iti sh &#91;Chat &bull; RFF] 14:14, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Coordinates are showing the top right near the GA icon and in the infobox. Given that these are very close together, is the duplication required? Personally, I'd be tempted to drop it from the infobox, as it doesn't "fit" with the other historical data as neatly, imo.
 * Might I recommend also adding Portal:History to the Portalbar in the footer? Unfortunately, many of our portals don't get a great deal of attention, would be nice to see them linked more often, even if the relevance is minor. Although the closest we have is Portal:Napoleonic Wars, but I've added this article into its random GA generator box anyway.

Support great piece of work. MisterBee1966 (talk) 19:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.