Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Cedric Howell


 * The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.  No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Passed by Parsecboy (talk) 02:23, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Cedric Howell

 * Nominator(s): Abraham, B.S. (talk)

I am nominating this article for A-Class review because I have recently expanded this article on an Australian First World War flying ace from a stub and believe it now meets the criteria. Has been passed as a Good article. Any and all comments welcome. Thanks, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:22, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I am not a fan of including a nickname in the lead, although I could see an exception if the pilot is better known by nickname than actual name, a la "Pappy" Boyington. However, the non sequitur of his nickname in conjunction with his funeral needs fixing. Georgejdorner (talk) 04:55, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Howell appears to have been well known by his nickname and it is mentioned in the introduction of several sources. In regards to the mention of his nickname in the prose, there was limited scope for a mention elsewhere and I do not see a problem where it is at the moment. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 05:07, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh, you can solve any dilemma here by noting the nickname and its origin at the time he received it, on joining No. 45 Sqn... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:10, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah! Good! Will definately move and add in there. Thanks, Ian! Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 05:30, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Support Comments -- Looks good, before reviewing further, here's some info from Newton, pp.40-41, that'd be worthwhile: I'll come back when you've reviewed and added any of the above as and how you see fit. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:08, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * He attempted to enlist in the AIF on the outbreak of WWI but was rejected (no reason mentioned here but perhaps because he expected to be an officer and his age precluded it), before resigning his AMF commission to join the AIF as a private "early in 1915" - the last date contradicts by a year what you have but the fact he tried in 1914 is useful/usable.
 * He went with the 16th to Gallipoli, "gained the reputation of being an expert marksman", and came down with malaria.
 * In regards to his enlistment and the mention of service at Gallipoli, this is not feasible as official records state he did not enlist in the AIF until January 1916 and embark for overseas until March that year. There were some minor mentions in newspaper articles that he was a sniper, so atleast that is confirmed now, though. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 06:25, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * If the weight of official evidence comes down firmly on the 1916 enlistment, as it seens to, then I agree we have to discount Newton on this point. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:53, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * He was a sniper with the 46th in France.
 * He got his nickname at No. 45 Sqn due to his "tall, thin and dismal looking" appearance, brought on by a second bout of malaria just before he arrived in France.
 * He was on patrol on 15 June when German and Austrian forces struck Allied lines across the Piave River, being the first to bring news of the attack after landing back at base at 11:40am. With the aircraft refuelled and 'bombed up', in company with the rest of the squadron, he then led his flight on a total of four sorties against the enemy insurgents. No. 45 Squadron succeeded in destroying with its bombs a pontoon bridge, a boat, and a trench filled with soldiers, before inflicting at least a hundered casualties with machine-gun fire. Heavy rain washed other bridges away and by 18 June the stranded Austrian forces on the Allied bank of the river were routed by a counterattack. Foregoing is in my own words, so you can safely use as is or alter at your pleasure...
 * Tweaked slightly, but basically added your version in. :) Abraham, B.S. (talk) 06:25, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Claim-by-claim list of Howell's victories confirms four "destroyed" and one "out of control" on 12 July 1918. He certainly made a habit of multiple kills: four on 13 May 1918; two on 8 June; two on 19 June; five on 12 July; and two on 15 July. Whew!
 * On the drowning: "Peasants on the shores of Corfu reported later that they heard cries for help coming from the sea that night but it was too rough to attempt a rescue".
 * Will definately get to adding this info in. Thanks, Ian! Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 05:30, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Aside from the Gallipoli bit, added in all the information I coulrd. I really have to get a copy of/access to this bloody book! Thanks very much for that, Ian. :) Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 06:25, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, it's a good 'un - shame it seems to be a bit scarce. That said, my use of quotes from him above was more so you could see just what he wrote for your own information, not because I thought all the quotes were memorable in themselve - hence my further light copyedit where I paraphrase a few of them...! Anyway, it's all good so altered to support - well done. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:53, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * One thing I forgot earlier that did trouble me a bit: not sure that employing the term "Central" as shorthand for "Central Powers", and equivalent to "Allied", is very common - who uses it? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:32, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't quite specificially remember where I have seen it used before, but I have seen it used just as "Allied", etc, is. Also, I used it in Raymond Brownell without any issues/concerns being raised. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:29, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments
 * No problems reported with alt text or ambiguous links in the article. There are two websites that are suspicious according to the tool checker, please check those two links and fix them if necessary.
 * Otherwise the article looks good to me. Well Done! TomStar81 (Talk) 21:56, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review, Tom. Regarding the two links, for some reason the tool always has a problem with these sites but the link is always perfectly fine. *Shrugs* Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:29, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Support Alright then, I'm happy. TomStar81 (Talk) 19:36, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Support Comments Once these are taken care of, I will be happy to support. Nice work on another article! Dana boomer (talk) 02:24, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Lead, "In one particular combat on 12 July 1918" is odd phrasing. Perhaps, "one particular encounter" or "engagement"?
 * Changed to "sortie". Abraham, B.S. (talk) 02:45, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Fighter pilot over Italy, "Two days later, Howell was credited with bringing a Central plane," What?
 * Sorry, missing word there. Corrected to "... bringing down..."
 * English to Australia flight, "Warringal Cemetry". Should this be "Cemetery"?
 * Opps, typo. Fixed. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 02:45, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the review. :) Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 02:45, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks good and thanks for the prompt response. Changed to support. Dana boomer (talk) 16:46, 23 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.