Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/HMS Indefatigable (R10)


 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Promoted Peacemaker67 (send... over) 11:36, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

HMS Indefatigable (R10)

 * Nominator(s): Sturmvogel 66 (talk)

Indefatigable was one of two Illustrious-class armoured carriers modified to carry more aircraft at the expense of reduced armour. She was not completed until 1944 and her aircraft attacked the German battleship Tirpitz several times before she was transferred to the Pacific to support the American invasion of Okinawa and attack targets in the Japanese Home Islands. After the war she helped to repatriate troops and ex-PoWs home before she was placed in reserve. The ship was recommissioned in 1950 to serve as a training carrier for the Home Fleet until she was again reduced to reserve in the mid-1950 and sold for scrap. I trust that reviewers will spot any infelicities in language and BritEng before I send this to FAC.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 01:40, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments: a couple of minor comments (not a full review): AustralianRupert (talk) 12:10, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * "Pacific Theater" --> "Pacific Theatre" (for British English)?
 * in the Notes, "The mystery deepens!" --> I suggest removing or commenting this out as it probably doesn't belong in the article
 * "South East Asia Theater" --> "South East Asia Theatre"?
 * the duplicate link check highlights a couple of duplicate links: ship commissioning; HMS Victorious (R38); escort carrier. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 12:10, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for looking this over. I always forget about theatre!--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 07:19, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Support Comments 
 * Any way you can split up the design/description section a bit? It seems a bit wall-o-text-ish to me.
 * Better?--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 11:22, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Yup.
 * Any line-drawings available? I'd wager that ONI produced recognition drawings during the war.
 * I'd probably shift the launching photo to the right side - the angle of the slipway tends to draw the eye from right to left (or at least it does for me ;)
 * It seems a number of good photos could be used in the article to help break up the paragraphs a bit:
 * File:USS Randolph (CV-15) off Japan 1945.jpg - would work well in the Indian/Pacific operations section, and particularly interesting since it shows UK/US joint operations
 * File:The Royal Navy during the Second World War A21197.jpg - a particularly impressive photo
 * File:HMS Indefatigable FL22353.jpg - don't know if you can date the camo scheme to find out when this was taken, but it's nevertheless a nice profile shot
 * File:Aircraft carriers, c.1946 (5124135353).jpg - also an interesting photo, since it shows all the activity that goes on while a ship is in port (and looks to be taken during the stop in Australia in mid-1946
 * There are also a number of photos in the Commons category of aircraft aboard the ship - it would be nice to add one of those.
 * Thanks for these suggestions; I really did forget about images for this article.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 11:22, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Check BrEng/AmEng - I spot a "neutralize" and an "authorized" (I think these should be "ise" instead, but I'm a Yank so what do I know? ;)
 * Probably best to spell out BPF the first time in the body again - I'd say it's far enough away from the lead to warrant it.
 * Spell out small numbers - WP:NUMERAL suggests spelling out numbers less than 9, and either option for larger numbers up to those that require more than two words
 * Can't. MOS:Number says, under notes and exceptions:
 * Comparable quantities should be all spelled out or all figures--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 11:22, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Fair enough.
 * "While visiting the latter city, the Governor-General of South Africa toured the ship in addition to the public." - sounds like the Governor-General toured the public, and also that he was visiting Cape Town ;) Might be better to word it as "While Indefatigable was visiting the latter city, she was opened to the public and the Governor-General of South Africa toured the ship."
 * I made a few edits - make sure they're all ok. Parsecboy (talk) 14:42, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
 * They look fine. Looking for a line drawing now.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 11:22, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * No joy on a line drawing.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 09:22, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll see if I can dig one up tomorrow. Parsecboy (talk) 20:25, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
 * If this is as complete as it appears to be, it doesn't look like ONI produced one (which is odd, but they're the Navy, so no surprise). Parsecboy (talk) 20:38, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Support: Cheers Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:34, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * before joining the American forces preparing to invade the island of Okinawa in Operation Iceberg in March. Ambiguity here. Can you make it clear that the Indefatigable joined in March rather than the invasion of Okinawa being in March?
 * See how it reads now.
 * What is the source for the pennant number being R10?
 * During WW2 it was just 10, I suspect that the 'R' was added after the war. Cite added.
 * They were designed to be 2 knots faster and to carry an additional dozen aircraft It would help of course if I knew how fast an Illustrious class carrier was, and how many aircraft it carried. (And is that with or without parking them on the deck?)
 * The RN didn't use deck parks when the ship was designed. In the flight deck para I mention that the 48-aircraft capability was for internal storage.
 * She was commissioned on 8 December 1943 Is this so we don't start two paragraphs in a row with the name of the ship?
 * Yes.
 * On 19 September, she sortied from Scapa Flow to attack targets Don't we normally use the name first in the paragraph, then switch to the pronoun?
 * Nope, or at least, I never have.
 * Their aircraft, 40 Seafires, 12 Fireflies, and 21 Avengers Who's flying the Avengers? You haven't mentioned (or linked) them yet.
 * Good catch. They're flown by 820 Squadron, but I didn't want to interrupt the flow to say that they'd converted from Barracudas to Avengers. The embarked squadron table makes that clear, though.
 *  Captain Quentin Graham was appointed to command the ship We link Captain but not rear admiral?
 * After her return, Admiral Louis Mountbatten, South East Asia Theatre commander, Shouldn't it be Admiral Lord Louis Mountbatten, him being the second son of the Marquess of Milford Haven and all that sort of thing? And he was the Supreme Allied Commander South East Asia Command (SEAC).
 * I didn't want to give his full duty title as it's only mentioned once, but...
 *  A combination of bad weather, refuelling requirements and the atomic bombing of Hiroshima delayed the resumption of air operations How did the atomic bombing of Hiroshima delay air operations?
 * All carrier ops were cancelled and the ships ordered away from the home islands from 4-7 August. In reality this just meant that they scheduled an extra day to refuel during this period. Do you think that I need to explicate this more?
 * On 17 August Admiral Bruce Fraser Admiral Sir Bruce Fraser
 *  Indefatigable was sold for scrap in September 1956 Why is "scrap" linked in the lead but not here?
 * Generally I only link once per article.
 * Why is this in category 1942 ships? Is the category for when it is launched or commissioned? Was it launched in 1942 like it says in the infobox, or 1941 like it says in the article?
 * Fixed. Categories are for launch date.
 * While we're at it, did it carry 73 aircraft (infobox) or 81 (article)?
 * Capacity for 81, only carried a maximum of 73 in service. No idea why not, probably shortage of aircrew, but that's just speculation on my part. Thanks for your review.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 10:56, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Support
 * Structure, level of detail and prose are fine by me following my habitual copyedit, just one query: "sea trials revealed a significant number of problems" -- if we can safely substitute "many" for "a significant number of" then it'd read better (and quicker!).
 * Good idea. I do have a bad habit of using "a number of" rather than "some" or "many".
 * Citation formatting and sources look fine to me.
 * No image licensing issues leapt out. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:31, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for giving this a thorough look and copy-edit.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 15:53, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Comments. This is my imperfect understanding of what reviewers are looking for at FAC. - Dank (push to talk)
 * HMS_Indefatigable_(R10): Per WP:HEADING, use a noun phrase. Also, consistency needed: post-war
 * Done.
 * "887 Squadron sank seven seaplanes ...": Numeral at the beginning of a sentence. Passive voice will fix it.
 * It's a proper name and thus I don't think that the rule really applies, especially since I don't really want to use passive voice if I can help it.
 * So far so good on prose per standard disclaimer, down to where I stopped, about halfway, at HMS_Indefatigable_(R10). - Dank (push to talk) 14:12, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Glad to see that you're back in the saddle reviewing; you've been missed.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 15:53, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks Sturm. - Dank (push to talk) 21:39, 11 May 2014 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.