Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Horace Robertson


 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.  No further edits should be made to this discussion.


 * Closing as consensus to promote Woody (talk) 11:34, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Horace Robertson

 * Nominator(s): Hawkeye7 (talk)

Another Australian general. This time its Red Robbie. He's already been on the front page as a DYK. Hawkeye7 (talk) 04:07, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Support Comments: Looks quite good, I have the following suggestions/observations:
 * no dab links, ext links work as advertised, alt text is present (no action required);
 * images appear appropriately licenced (no action required);
 * in the lead you use the term "First World War" but then later "Great War" - interchangeable terms, should be consistent IMO;
 * Changed to "First World War" Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "Warrnambool, Victoria" - probably should have a comma after "Victoria" (paired commas);
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "Royal Military College, Duntroon" - probably should have a comma after "Duntroon";
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "machine-gun" but then "machine guns". The Macquarie dictionary indicates that "machine-gun" with a hyphen is correct, so it should probably be hyphenated in all instances except direct quotes;
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I suggest wikilinking "brevetted" to Brevet (military);
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I think there is a word missing here: "All three of its battalions, 2/4th, 2/8th and 2/11th Infantry Battalions, were initially..." (I think there should be a "the" inserted before "2/4th");
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * there is a typo here: "The reflected an extraordinary endorsement of Robertson". I think it should be: "This reflected an extraordinary endorsement of Robertson";
 * Corrected. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that there is a word missing here: "This too was disbanded June 1944". I think it should be: "This too was disbanded in June 1944";
 * Corrected. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that there is a word missing here: "became commander of the 6th Division, leading through the final days". I think it should be: "became commander of the 6th Division, leading it through the final days";
 * Corrected. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * in the lead "Robertson Barracks" is in italics, but in the Later life section it isn't. Should be consistent;
 * Removed italics Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Grey 2002 is in the References, but doesn't seem to be specifically cited in the Notes. Probably best to specifically cite the work or move it to a Further reading section. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 13:26, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Added one. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * All my concerns have been addressed so I have added my support. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 04:05, 25 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Support -- Reviewed/passed for GA and see no reason it shouldn't get A-Class. Done another pass just to check for overlinking and any other obvious prose issues but little leapt out. As ever, structure, coverage, referencing, and supporting materials all look good -- well done. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:22, 26 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Comments
 * Horace was nicknamed "Red Robbie" by whom?
 * His schoolmates. Added. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * caused it to be graduated seems awkward to me
 * Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * because at the time junior officers required the Army's permission to marry, and at age 20 Robertson would not have received it. Leaves the reader begging to know why—why he wouldn't have received permission and why he needed it in the first place
 * Is there anything more known about his wife, in particular where they met?
 * Jeff speculates that it was because Jessie's mother lived near Robbie's, but I left it out because it is just speculation. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you sure about omitting "regiment" from 10th Light Horse?
 * Yes. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Why is "machine gun" hyphenated? OK, in "machine-gun officer" and "machine-gun sections", it's a compound adjective, but not in "the machine-guns were brigaded together"
 * See Rupert's comments. - Dank (push to talk) 16:46, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I have a concise OED in front of me (which I'll concede is for Brits, not Aussies, but the two are similar), which says the noun should be "machine gun" (2 machine guns) and "machine-gun" should be used as a compound adjective (machine-gun brigade) or a verb (to machine-gun). I don't want to make a capital case of it, but Wiktionary seems to concur. HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   17:35, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a bit lineball. Agree proper English rules suggest "two machine guns" but "machine-gun company", i.e. the double-barrelled adjective is hyphened, but in common usage (not just in WP) it often seems hyphenated no matter what. As long as one method or the other is applied consistently within the article it should be reasonable. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 20:54, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Australian English used to use more hyphens than we use today, but Bean always says "machine gun" as two words. Consistently used this form. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Was he promoted straight from second lieutenant (preusmably his rank on commissioning) to captain or did he pass through lieutenant first?
 * No, he never held the rank of second lieutenant but was commissioned as a lieutenant. Added this. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 *  Afterwards, Robertson was promoted to captain and became second in command of A Squadron. On 28 August, Robertson assumed command of C Squadron.[4] The next day he participated in the fighting at Battle of Hill 60. That's a bit choppy—could you smooth it out so we don't have three short sentences in a row?
 * Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * This was as far as he could go, for Duntroon graduates could not be promoted above major. Why not?
 * Some nebulous policy. Added a bit about it. Hawkeye7 (talk)
 * His substantive rank remained that of lieutenant and he would not be promoted to the substantive rank of major until 1932 You'll need to explain the concept of acting/substantial ranks for readers not familiar with military terminology.
 * Linked to Military rank#Types of rank.
 * Robertson was finally breveted as a lieutenant colonel in June 1936. Why "finally" and how did he get past major, which a few paragraphs above was the highest rank he could hope to attain.
 * Added wording to explain that this was in the AIF, not the PMF. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably worth including the abbreviation KBE, since some readers may be familiar with the initial, but not the full title and because we have the post-nominal "KBE" in the lead
 * Added. Also DSO and CBE. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * fired off seems very informal for an encyclopaedia
 * Changed to "sent". "Bugger's muddle" probably isn't the best way to talk to a British field marshal but we can't help that. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Why do you have a hyperlink to The Metropolitan Golf Club?
 * Don't know - I don't think I put it there. Removed. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It moves very abruptly from being chairman of a golf club to his death
 * Apparently, Red Robbie wasn't too happy about it either. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Inconsistent full stops in the refs section. Since the full stops are part of London Gazette, it would probably be easier (if tedious) to add them to the non-template refs
 * Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * A very nice article on an officer with a very interesting career. I look forward to supporting once the above issues are sorted. HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   16:34, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Great work, Harry. - Dank (push to talk) 16:48, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey, I'm not even officially a member, but you guys have given me great feedback on my article, so I'm happy to make myself useful. ;) HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   17:35, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * HJ, this looks about ready to close/promote, is there anything outstanding from your point of view? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:38, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * My apologies for not getting back to this sooner. No, there are no outstanding issues so far as I can see. A great piece of work on an interesting man. Support. HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   13:21, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Tks for wrapping that up. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:10, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Support per standard disclaimer. Very little was left for me to do; good job everyone. - Dank (push to talk) 04:21, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Support - I've read over it once and looks very good. Only one point: did he have any children? I might of missed it but I don't think any off spring are mentioned. Anotherclown (talk) 09:41, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * He didn't have any children. Added this. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:58, 10 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.