Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Joachim Müncheberg/archive1


 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Dumelow (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 13:05, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Joachim Müncheberg

 * Nominator(s): MisterBee1966 (talk)

I am nominating this article for A-Class review because it recently passed GA without much concern. The article addresses all the phases of his life with a strong focus on his fighter pilot career. Please help me improve the article further. Thanks MisterBee1966 (talk) 07:46, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. - Dank (push to talk)
 * "was a German Luftwaffe fighter ace during World War II. A flying ace or fighter ace is a military aviator credited with shooting down five or more enemy aircraft during aerial combat.[1] He is credited with 135 enemy aircraft shot down claimed in over 500 combat missions.": I recommend: "was a German Luftwaffe aviator during World War II, a flying ace credited with 135 enemy aircraft shot down in over 500 combat missions." I don't think that many readers won't have a clue what an "ace" is, and even if they don't, there's probably sufficient context when the sentence is worded this way. Your second sentence is the only one that currently cites Spick; if you want to keep Spick, you specifically mention the ace MacLachlan in the text, and this sentence and citation wouldn't be out of place there. Also, I removed "claimed" because that word means that we're relying on his word, whereas "credited" means that we're relying on someone else (even if the someone else is largely relying on what he's telling them).
 * "Of his 102 aerial victories achieved over the Western Allies, 46 were Supermarine Spitfire fighters.": Adding "against" after "were" will work, or you could say that out of a certain number of planes he downed, 46 were Supermarine Spitfire fighters.
 * "Geschwaderkommodore (Wing Commander) in training to JG 51 wing commander Karl-Gottfried Nordmann": ... in training under ... - Dank (push to talk) 21:01, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I followed your guidance MisterBee1966 (talk) 07:06, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Comments Mr B, as always an excellent job. I've made a few grammatical tweaks. I suggest that someone who uses the British spelling regularly read it through to make sure that it is consistent. There were some "valor"s that I changed to "valour" etc. But I'm not likely to catch them all. I added a few more links. Is Luqar a place in N Africa somewhere? Was there a German base there? When JM returned from his leave did he go to the channel group, or back to Africa. That isn't clear, although ultimately he was back in Africa. I'll support this for A rating. Just a few minor things. auntieruth (talk)
 * Thanks for your copy editing. It should have been Luqa, link provided, good spot. Following his vacation he went to France, I added a few words which should make this clearer now. Thanks MisterBee1966 (talk) 07:12, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Support. Very little needed to be done here. A Commonwealth editor looked it over for consistency of spelling. Excellent article, and I think it should be passed to A-article status. auntieruth (talk) 19:28, 7 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Support - I reviewed at GA and have looked over recent changes and am satisfied it meets the A class criteria. Anotherclown (talk) 09:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Image review
Everything else passes without anything significant worth saying. Adam Cuerden (talk) 03:46, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Fair use on the lead image, seems justified.
 * File:RilaMon2.jpg lacks an Information template; they may call you on that at FA. Copyright's fine, though. Very small, but it's from 2005 when I think we were actively encouraging small. I'd like to say we can do better, but looking through the category... nope.
 * File:Geschwaderwappen_Jagdgeschwader_77.png is alright; might want to consider getting it converted to SVG, but it hardly seems that important.

 Comments Support by Peacemaker67 (send... over) 10:32, 13 October 2014 (UTC) Great article, just a few minor tweaks here and there:
 * suggest you link Western Allies in the lead
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:08, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest you link adjutant in the lead
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:08, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest you put SA in full when first mentioned
 * MisterBee1966 (talk) 13:57, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * he attended a summer camp held on behalf of seems a bit odd, do you mean "held in conjunction with", or "associated with"?
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:08, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * stationed a t Cologne
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:08, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * the I. Gruppe (1st g Group), there are a couple of other spots where "III. Gruppe" is preceded by "the", which is superfluous
 * MisterBee1966 (talk) 13:57, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest re-designated to as, designated to/as recurs elsewhere
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:08, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * a few spots where a comma might help, eg On 13 May 1940,, In consequence,, On 4 February 1941,, On 29 April, 7. Staffel
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:08, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest closer to the border to with
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:08, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest since from 27 May 1940
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:08, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest At the time, III. Gruppe was providing
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:08, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I know that "destroyer" is the literal translation for the Bf 110, but it causes confusion with naval destroyers. I use "heavy fighters", but some alternative to "destroyers" should be used in the interests of clarity
 * MisterBee1966 (talk) 13:59, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest you translate "Schlageter" and "Holzhammer", and use Schlageter at all times from when JG 36 is first mentioned, or use it the first time, and drop it after that. Unless of course it gained that nickname after Müncheberg joined it
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:08, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest with including four on 31 May 1940
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:08, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

done down to Battle of Britain, more to come later
 * suggest On 21 July 1940, JG 26 received orders
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:31, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * actions against England - Britain or Great Britain
 * MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:14, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * unlink Stuka, it redirects to Ju 87 which is linked above, suggest you add Stuka to the earlier reference to the Ju 87
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:24, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * claim any aircraft shot down on these days
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:22, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * 7. Staffel at first mention
 * not sure what you mean MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:22, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Oberleutnant Georg Beyer who was had been
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 13:24, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * He returned in early October
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 13:24, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * who was flying the Bloch? Free French? Worth a mention.
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:44, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * and the his last in of 1940
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:28, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest on 14 November, when Galland and Müncheberg each claimed one Spitfire
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:14, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest This was Müncheberg's 23rd victory, and was claimed southeast of Dover.
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:14, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest The weather then deteriorated, and fog and heavy rain prevented
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:14, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * on at Christmas 1940
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 13:24, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * over another the No. 261 Squadron Hurricane
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 13:24, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest ...severely wounded. MacLachlan lost his arm, but returned to combat in late 1941. - sentence is a bit too long
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:32, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest Müncheberg claimed a Yugoslav Hawker Fury biplane of Independent Fighter Eskadrila, 81 (Bomber) Grupa, Jugoslovensko Kraljevsko Ratno Vazduhoplovstvo (JKRV—Yugoslav Royal Air Force) on 6 April 1941. Its pilot Porucnik (First Lieutenant) Milenko Milivojevic was killed.
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:36, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * two Huricanes Hurricanes shot down
 * MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:33, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest third opponent on this of the day
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:26, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * either the No. 1 Squadron
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:26, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

down to Channel operations, more to come
 * suggest following the death of Hauptmann Walter Adolph the day before, in aerial combat with RAF Spitfire fighters.
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:19, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * suggest He claimed his 62nd overall victory and last of the year on 16 December 1941.
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:38, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * you can drop "the" in front of "No. 124 Squadron", and the other similar ones
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:19, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * On 2 June, II. Gruppe
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:41, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * (82–83 in total )
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:41, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * it would help to identify what type of aircraft some of the less-well-known ones are, eg the Petlyakov Pe-2 was a dive bomber
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:41, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * external links should be reliable, I'm not sure about the bottom three.
 * leave for now MisterBee1966 (talk) 16:38, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, will get picked up at FAC, IMO.


 * I am left wondering where he rated on the all-time fighter ace list for WWII.
 * have you checked the template at the very bottom regarding the "German World War II flying aces with 100+ aerial victories"? MisterBee1966 (talk) 14:46, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Touche, great template, BTW.


 * the tools seem to be down, so I haven't been able to run those checks.
 * nothing done MisterBee1966 (talk) 16:38, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

That's me done. Great job as always. A pleasure to read and review. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 13:04, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your thorough review. I have addressed or commented all but one (7. Staffel??) of your remarks. Thanks MisterBee1966 (talk) 16:38, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * My pleasure. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 00:21, 14 October 2014 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 