Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/John Babcock/archive1


 * The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.  No further edits should be made to this discussion.


 * Not promoted - no consensus for promotion after being open for 28 days -MBK004 00:51, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

John Babcock

 * Nominator(s): Cheers, CP

I am nominating this article for A-Class review because it has been certified as a good article for some time now and, now that he has died, I feel that all the resources have now surfaced for this article to meet the criteria. As Canada's final surviving veteran of World War I, he was not only an important historical figure for the country, but the final link to one of the largest military conflicts in human history. Cheers, CP 05:04, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comments
 * No problems reported with dab links or alt text. One external link is reported as suspicious, please check and advise.
 * More to follow. TomStar81 (Talk) 08:24, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that the external link problem has been fixed now. Cheers, CP 16:54, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed.


 * "In doing so he lost his Canadian citizenship, as dual citizenships were not allowed at the time." Was this do to US laws, Canadian laws, or both?
 * "He still retained a Canadian Army pension that totaled $750..." Is that 750 by todays standards or yesterdays standards?
 * "Babcock was invited to the opening of a Pentagon exhibit on March 6, 2008, featuring photos of nine World War I veterans, but was unable to attend." Why was he unable to make it?
 * The infobox cites his rank as lance corpal but there is no explanation in the article as to how he was able to attain that rank. I assume it was based either on time served or on outstanding merit, but I would like to have this point clarified in the article. TomStar81 (Talk) 03:51, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I've looked at every report from March 2008, and none of them give the exact reason that Babcock was unable to attend, not even the remarks made at the event itself. I would assume that it's the obvious (difficulty of someone of that age to travel across the country), but of course I can't speculate in the article.


 * I'll look at the rest of these later... the Lance Corporal item was just recently added to the infobox, so I'll have to take a careful look at that, but the other two should (hopefully) be quick fixes. Cheers, CP 04:05, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I've added some information on Babcock's rank... I don't think that was exactly what you were looking for, but I tried to combine all the Babcock-specific and general information about the rank that I could find in order to paint a more contextual picture. Again, my speculative guess would be that they promoted people to acting ranks to replace casualties from war, but I couldn't find anything to specifically state that. I'll take care of the other points shortly. Cheers, CP 17:25, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Alright, I think I've taken care of all the above mentioned points. Let me know what's next! Cheers, CP 22:36, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Support One last little suggestion: if at all possible, see if you can find a Canadian lance corporal insignia to add to the infobox, it would be interesting to see what sort of rank patch he wore. Otherwise, I am happy with the changes, all my issues have been addressed. TomStar81 (Talk) 07:02, 26 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry that I missed this earlier today; I'll take a look for this shortly. Cheers, CP 01:38, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, I have a quick question if anyone wants to answer... I noticed that this has happened twice now, where the three short sentences about his death are cut off from the last paragraph. I feel that this makes it a bit choppier and breaks the flow, but I thought since two different people made the same edit, it'd make more sense to ask here than to just revert. Cheers, CP 01:05, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments.
 * "but was reduced to the rank of private for neglect of duty." What did he neglect?
 * Please clarify and expand his World War II service: this is barely covered at all, and it'd be nice if there were more on it.
 * "In addition, the local Royal Canadian Legion has a collection of World War I items on display, including a roll call with Babcock's name on it." Please rephrase this to provide relevance to his 107th birthday, as that is what is talked about around this statement, or move it.


 * Please take a look at these. – Joe   N  14:08, 11 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Regarding the first comment, as noted above, I couldn't find much information on his rank... the source simply said that he was demoted for neglect of duty and offers no further details. I did find a copy of his military record linked on this site, but even they do not say more than "neglect of duty" (pgs. 11 and 12), so I'm not sure that anything else can be done on this one. I'll check out the other two once Wikipedia is acting less sluggish. Cheers, CP 04:28, 12 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I believe that I have addressed the other two points... there's not too much to say on his World War II service, but I have added some information to clarify why this is. Please let me know what else needs to be done. Cheers, CP 04:12, 13 March 2010 (UTC)


 * That's better, but could you mention how he got into the army? Was he drafted, or did he volunteer in the hopes of being in the USAAC and then was required to stick around in the regular army? – Joe   N  13:43, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll look into it today and find the answer to that if it's out there! Cheers, CP 15:27, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I looked into it and I couldn't find much to answer your question. According to this obituary, he voluntarily entered the U.S. Army, but it doesn't give a specific date as to when that happened. Babcock came to the States in 1921, so unless he waited for five years to join the forces, he probably wouldn't have been gunning for the United States Army Air Corps, although he could have conceivably been gunning for the United States Army Air Service. In any case, this is the only source that really mentions his joining the U.S. Army in any detail and all it says is that "He emigrated to the United States in the 1920s, joined the U.S. Army and gave up his Canadian citizenship". The Whig-Standard source says the following: ""I tried to go down and enlist," he would later recall. "After all, I was a veteran and I thought they'd be glad to have my expertise. 'I tried to get into the flying service, but to my disappointment they turned me down, saying I was too old.'" So these two sources combine seem to suggest that:


 * 1) He joined the U.S. Army on a volunteer basis in the early 1920s and
 * 2) Joining any sort of Air Force was an afterthought of his trying to enlist for World War II, where he was denied.


 * I can include something like that in the article, but I'm not sure how much I'd be extrapolating stuff that isn't actual verifiable by the sources. Cheers, CP 02:25, 17 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.