Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Jon Burge


 * The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.  No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Jon Burge

 * Passed --Eurocopter (talk) 17:49, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

This article needs to get attention for some quality improvement. Hopefully, it can get enough to merit an A-Class promotion.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 18:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Comments Five dismbig links need to be located and if at all possible fixed. An alarmingly high number of external links appear to have issues, inluding dead links and links with connection issues. These problems must be addressed before any move to A-class can be made. TomStar81 (Talk) 18:51, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I dabbed all the links in these edits. I had to use WIKT for one.  I will check the dead links later.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:50, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I fixed seven of nine deadlinks and mad cleaned up other references in these edits.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:17, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * References comments (this version)
 * Sources look good.
 * I see "Conroy, "The Pain Stays in Your Head"" and "Conroy, "Getting Confessions,"" in the in-line citations, but where are they in the bibliography? — Ed 17  (Talk /  Contribs)  05:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Those are chapter names from the book in the Jon_Burge.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 08:26, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That is rather confusing. Can we just have a title? — Ed 17  (Talk /  Contribs)  20:38, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think the proper thing to do is to give the full ref at the bottom and then just use "author, page." in each footnote.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:33, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's whatever you pick - so long as you are consistent. I've used "author (year), p. 00", "author, page", "author, title, page" and "author, p. 00" before, although I've gone to the first as of late. — Ed 17  (Talk /  Contribs)  02:38, 30 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Comments - Initial concerns below, more detailed ones will follow:
 * 'The most controversial arrests began in February 1982 at a time when a series of shootings of Chicago law enforcement officials caused a turbulent time in Police Area 2' - This is a little awkward at the moment, specifically the 'a series of shootings' bit.
 * I am not really sure what you are suggesting I do.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:02, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, my fault. It's just a little stilted and awkward, especially the 'caused a turbulent time bit; it just doesn't flow very well at the moment.
 * 'He served tours in South Korea and Vietnam after extensive training that began in Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps' - Shouldn't this be 'The' ROTC?
 * I presume you would like me to use the initials JROTC after spelling it out in the first usage. I have made this change.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:59, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That's great!
 * 'Burge was acquitted of police brutality charges in 1989 after a first trial resulted in a hung jury. Burge was suspended from the Chicago Police Department in 1991 and fired in 1993 after the Police Department Review Board ruled that he had used torture.' - Repetition of his name with two consecutive sentences, needs a change please
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:02, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The two infoboxes seem awkward -is there any predecent in using two, or can they perhaps be merged somehow?
 * During the PR, I received this comment. I noted that many infoboxes have the ability to incorporate military info (see politicians like Jon Corzine, Jack Kemp or Arthur Schultz and athletes like Bob Chappuis).  I have had a request in at Template talk:Infobox Person for a month.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:08, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'He reported to division headquarters, where he provided security as a sergeant at his division base camp named Dong Tam by William Westmorelan' - Very awakward phrasing, please rewrite for clarity - took me a few moments to figure out what was being said.
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:15, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'During his military service, he earned a Bronze Star, a Purple Heart, the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry and two Army Commendation Medals for valor, for pulling wounded men to safety while under fire.' - Can we have more details on how he received the awards, please? At the moment he seems to have got them all for a single action.
 * Is there a military source where I can find out the actions that earned each commendation by a soldier?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:18, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Not sure really, might want to ask at MILHIST:talk
 * 'Burge claimed no knowledge of or involvement in prisoner interrogation, brutality or torture.' - I realize you're setting up precedent for later events, but this still seems out of place.
 * I am not so sure it is out of place. Unless it is biased in some way by its inclusion.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:31, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say biased, just rather out of place. But it's a minor thing.
 * 'He returned to his parents' home, took a job as a mechanic and gas station attendant, and watched a population shift in the neighborhood. In 1972, his high school was only 14 percent white. Burge's parents sold their home in 1973' - Fragmentary paragraph - please either expand, or merge into the previous. Skinny87 (talk) 21:13, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:36, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'This incident occurred within Burge's jurisdiction, who was then a lieutenant and commanding officer of Area 2. The two fatalities brought the total to five officers (including two Cook County Sheriff Officers and a rookie CTA cop in February 5)' - What is a CTA cop, and 'rookie' seems peacock-y, maybe 'inexperienced' would be better.
 * I linked the two terms, but I think rookie tells the reader more than inexperienced.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:18, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'The frenzied police effort to seek the most recent assailants in the name of justice may have gone beyond normal police procedures' - 'In the name of justice' is awkward and peacock-y Skinny87 (talk) 21:17, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Removed.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:30, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'Tyrone Sims identified Donald "Kojak" White as the shooter, and Kojak was linked to Andrew and Jackie Wilson by having committed a burglary with them earlier on the day of the killings' - Am I to understand these men killed all five police officers, including the 'officer and his partner'? Otherwise, it's not clear who they killed. I realize it is stated in the next paragraph, but it may need clarifying.
 * It should be clearer now.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:51, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'It was clear that Wilson had received sufficient injuries to be sent to the hospital, with more than a dozen injuries caused while in police custody' - Repetition of 'injuries'
 * Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:54, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'Although the suit was against four detectives, a former police superintendent and the City of Chicago, it boiled down to plaintiff Wilson and commander Burge, who oversaw all of the alleged activity' - Boiled down to isn't very encyclopedic, especially for a BLP article.
 * Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:58, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'Gradually, charges against other officers were dismissed, and on March 15, 1989, Sgt. Thomas McKenna was cleared of wrongdoing;[23] and on March 30, 1989, Detectives John Yucaitis and Patrick O'Hara were unanimously cleared by the jury' - I think a new sentence should come after 'dismissed'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skinny87 (talk • contribs) 22:25, 30 January 2009
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:01, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * ''There were three separate electronic devices that Burge and his detectives were accused of using' - Is 'electronic devices' the right word to use here -that sounds more like a computer. 'Electrical' perhaps?
 * Good call.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:08, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'An investigation conducted by Chicago Police Department's Office of Professional Standards concluded that Police Commander Jon Burge and his detectives engaged in "methodical" and "systematic" torture' - Since it's not a quote, I don't think you need Burge's full title there.
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:11, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Please either use 'the city' or 'the City of Chicago' and not both
 * City of Chicago--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:18, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'The hearing related to the internal police investigation finding that Burge and Detective John Yucaitis physically abused convicted cop-killer Andrew Wilson in 1982,' - 'finding' to 'found', and 'convicted cop killer' is peacock-y. Also, you don't need to use Wilson's full name again.
 * Words removed.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:25, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'The internal hearing concluded in March 1992,[56] and Chicago Police Board found Cmdr. Jon Burge guilty of "physically abusing" an accused cop killer 11 years ago and ordered his firing from the police force on February 10, 1993' - Again the use of 'cop-killer', and it should be 'the Chiacgo Police Board'.
 * Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:29, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'Eventually, death penalty opponents requested that United States President Bill Clinton follow Ryan's lead in halting executions.[84] In August 2000, The Illinois Supreme Court reversed or remanded two Burge-reltated death row cases based on allegations of torture by police' - small paragraph, please expand or merge with preceding orfollowing one. Also, don't really need to wikilink 'United States' in the 'United States President Bill Clinton', just 'President Bill Clinton' will do.
 * O.K, but I am linking on two separate links. I shortened the first to U.S. President.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:33, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'Another result of the pardons, was a series of legislative death penalty reforms that Ryan's successor Rod Blagojevich vetoed.' - No need for the comma after 'pardons'
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:35, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The 'Arrest' section has a lot of white space under it because of the picture - can that be gotten rid of, possibly by removing the picture?
 * The trial is in May. I imagine all the whitespace will be filled in after that. No need to remove a perfectly fine and relevant photo.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:38, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 'The book Unspeakable Acts, Ordinary People (2001, ISBN 0520230396) by John Conroy includes four chapters on Burge's story.[3][131] The torture revelations led to actions to mandate videotaping of confessions.[132][133] Also, the 1994 Public Broadcasting System documentary film, co-produced with Peter Kuttner, that was entitled The End of the Nightstick, analyzed the torture charges against Burge' - Everything but the videotape thing seems rather irrelevent - I'd suggest getting rid of them and merging the videotape thing into another section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skinny87 (talk • contribs) 22:42, 30 January 2009
 * I think how the case has been handled in mass media is relevant. I have edited and rearranged the paragraph.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:43, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * References are fine, I fixed up a couple of ndashes and also an inconsistency in surname, name format.  YellowMonkey  ( click here to vote for world cycling's #1 model! ) 07:25, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Conditional support
 * "Trial is set for May 2009." Awkward.
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:48, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Every single image is on the right. Can some be moved over?
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:48, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * "he placed second out of 99 at a four-week drill corporal school Fort McClellan in Alabama." Is the school named Fort McClellan, or was it conducted at Fort McClellan? Please clarify.
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:50, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Are there really no images of him? It seems that if he made news, there'd at least be a picture in a newspaper or magazine that we could get a Fair Use Rational for.
 * No images and fair use is not appropriate for a living individual.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:51, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * ""escort of convoys, security for forward support bases, supervising security for the divisional central base camp in Dong Tam, and I finished my tour as a provost marshal investigator."" Since you are quoting it out of context it doesn't make sense. You might wish to replace part of the quote with ellipses, or perhaps paraphrase the second half.
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:57, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * "(including two Cook County Sheriff's Officers and a rookie CTA cop in February 5)" in February 5? Surely you mean on.
 * Yep.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:53, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Most of these shouldn't be too hard to fix, so please do so and it'll be in good shape. – Joe N  utter  00:19, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Support. Looks to me like it's good to go.  I did a little work on the grammar and sentence order but can't find any other obvious issues.  Excellent work on compiling the details and story behind the subject from a wide variety of sources. Cla68 (talk) 07:01, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.