Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/List of Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross recipients (F)


 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.  No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted. Anotherclown (talk) 23:37, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

List of Knight&

 * Nominator(s): MisterBee1966 (talk)

I am nominating this article for A-Class review because this list pretty much follows the same layout and citation style of the other A-Class Knight's Cross recipients lists. Please have a close look at the notes section since this is where the bulk of the work went into. Thanks and enjoy the read. MisterBee1966 (talk) 16:09, 8 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment This is a very comprehensive and high class list. While I generally prefer foreign-language unit names to be translated in instances where there's a direct English equivalent, in this context the use of the German seems entirely appropriate. My only comment is that all the photos appear to lack source information, and this seems important given that it's asserted that they're PD as they were "seized Nazi property". Nick-D (talk) 11:00, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback. I have left a note with who has uploaded most of the Heinrich Hoffmann images used in the list. My understanding is that she is a collector of old images. I assume that the images released by the Bundesarchiv are of no concern? MisterBee1966 (talk) 05:38, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I missed that many of the photos are from the Bundesarchiv (the ones I spot checked were all from unspecified ex-Nazi sources). The Bundesarchiv photos are clearly fine. Nick-D (talk) 08:34, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Regarding the source, Mariaflores states the following on her uploaded images I used here.

Source: Photo H. Hoffmann, 1944

PLEASE NOTE: The photographs of Heinrich Hoffmann are considered to be in the public domain in the U.S. due to their status as seized Nazi property, although in normal circumstances their copyrights would not yet have expired. For more information, please see: David Culbert (1997). "The Heinrich Hoffmann Photo Archive: Price vs United States (United States Court of Appeals, Fifth Circuit, 20 November, 1995)".

In some instances she also uses the PD-HHOFFMANN template. What else needs to be done? MisterBee1966 (talk) 09:49, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that evidence that these photos actually came from that collection is needed (eg, links to the relevant NARA files). Nick-D (talk) 10:13, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The entire Hoffmann Archive is in the public domain according to the above ruling of the United States Court of Appeals, Fifth Circuit. This Archive is not necessarily with NARA or Library of Congress etc. As you may know the photographs of H. Hoffmann were often published as prints and postcards. These are all clearly marked and from legal stand point of view there has never been problem with their copyright (following the 1995 ruling). Hoffmann work was widely used in the Nazi Germany by magazines such as Der Stürmer, Signals and nearly all newspapers. They were always clearly marked as such. All photos uploaded by myself are confirmed as created by Hoffmann and his studios, clearly in PD in THE UNITED STATES!! Regards Mariaflores1955 (talk) 07:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your feedback. Nick, does this address your concern? MisterBee1966 (talk) 09:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No, I'm afraid not. The basic problem is that there's no evidence in the Commons that these images actually come from this collection. As an example, while it's asserted that File:Wolfgang Falck.jpg is in the public domain as it's a work by Heinrich Hoffmann, the file record doesn't state from where the image was sourced (eg, was it taken from a file, scanned in from a magazine or cigarette card, etc?) or provide any confirmation that Hoffmann was the photographer. Maria, could you please add these details? Nick-D (talk) 10:39, 15 August 2012 (UTC)


 * All of the photos are very well known portraits by Hoffmann and are made at his studios (thus covered by the above mentioned legal ruling). These have been all published, in 99% of the cases as postcards and prints, during the TR era. Most of "my photos" are from an the Wartenberg Trust collection, which owns thousands of the original negatives. It is important to understand that the "Hoffmann Collection" includes all photos by H. Hoffmann (and his studios) from the period 1933-1945. As it was also stated previously, the photos are PD in the United States, thus there is not a copyright issue. This is a very unique PD category and it does not require for the work to be actually published nor we need to disclosure of immediate source. Once it is H. Hoffmann's work - it is automatically in PD in the US. Finally, I just noticed that large number of the Bundesarchiv photos for instance, are works of H. Hoffmann.

For more information, please see the details of the "The Heinrich Hoffmann Photo Archive: Price vs United States (United States Court of Appeals, Fifth Circuit, 20 November, 1995)"!!
 * Hi Maria, while I'm not doubting you, there's currently no evidence in the records of the images at Commons that these are taken from this collection. Can you please add details about where you sourced the images from exactly? Nick-D (talk) 12:05, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I can try. It is a HUGE project - Let me know what would be helpful to note on these photos - "Direct Source: Private Collection - Wartenberg Trust" - "Published as a print/postcard in Germany between 1933-1945" WOuld this work, or is there anything else? Also, is there a short cut to finding all the uploaded images?Mariaflores1955 (talk) 08:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, something like that would be great. The details should identify the source of the image, and its original format which you used to develop the images at Commons. Regards, Nick-D (talk) 10:06, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe that the following eight images need to be sourced File:Wolfgang Falck.jpg, File:Falkenhorstnikolaus.jpg, File:JohannFiedler.jpg, File:KurtFimmen.jpg, File:Forstwer.jpg, File:FRANZEgon.jpg, File:Albertfrey.jpg and File:FrickeKurt1.jpg. The other are all from the Bundesarchiv. Thanks MisterBee1966 (talk) 05:37, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I added the source "Private Collection - Wartenberg Trust" as stated by Maria. I hope this works now MisterBee1966 (talk) 10:32, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * For the record: Far from all photos by H. Hoffmann from the Nazi era are seized property. For that exact reason, the PD-HHOFFMANN template states that you have to provide a link to the United States National Archives entry for the photo. Some photos mentioned in this discussion do not have a link to the United States National Archives, so I have reported the photos as potentially unfree. See Possibly unfree files/2012 September 5 for details. --Stefan2 (talk) 17:53, 5 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Support My only comment has now been addressed. Nick-D (talk) 11:36, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. Please check the edit summaries. - Dank (push to talk)
 * "Air force": I don't know why I didn't catch this in any of the previous lists, but this capitalization can't be right; either "air force" or "Air Force" would work. "Air" isn't a proper noun by itself. - Dank (push to talk) 15:52, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 09:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "The first enactment Reichsgesetzblatt": The first enactment, Reichsgesetzblatt
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 09:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * " Heer members received 179 of the medals, 17 went to the Kriegsmarine, 65 to the Luftwaffe, and 19 to the Waffen-SS.": It's true that that punctuation is not uncommon, but in careful writing, these four elements are considered nonparallel (some are independent clauses and some aren't); an easy fix is to turn the first comma into a semicolon.
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 09:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "This along with the * (asterisk), indicates": This along with an * (asterisk) indicates
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 09:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "doubt regarding the veracity and formal correctness of the listing.": They expressed doubt about both of these ... the truth and the format ... in each case? If they generally had a problem with one or the other, then use "or". - Dank (push to talk) 16:06, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * done MisterBee1966 (talk) 09:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Support on prose per standard disclaimer. I finished up. These are my edits. (Edits may take many days to show up on that page.) - Dank (push to talk) 10:38, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Comments. I compared this to a couple of the other lists that had received the A listing. This one seems to meet the same standard of editing, presentation, and information. I found 1 potential issue: On Bernard Flach's entry, the Ia (administrative posting) is unclear. Is that an abbreviation, or something else...
 * Thanks for the feedback. I added a bit of context MisterBee1966 (talk) 17:04, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Support. auntieruth (talk) 22:02, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.