Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/List of Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves recipients: 1943


 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.  No further edits should be made to this discussion.


 * Consensus to promote Woody (talk) 16:39, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

List of Knight&

 * Nominator(s): MisterBee1966 (talk)

I am nominating this article for A-Class review because I feel that it meets the criteria. The article follows the same layout as the 1940–1941 and 1942 lists. Regarding the images, please note that I only added those pictures with appropriate rational. I tried to point to all the discrepancies in the sources by listing these as footnotes. Therefore please pay close attention to the footnotes section. Thanks in advance. MisterBee1966 (talk) 09:41, 2 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, intro seems fine, one thing I'd like to comment on is the reasons they recieved the award. I know that writing a reason section would be a vast task, considering the amount of awards given out, the references available and the amount of awards given to people who had racked up brownie points with Hitler. I'm not going to hold this point against you now, but, in the future, you could try to re-edit the lists, throwing in shortened citations, as in List of Medal of Honor recipients. Just a thought.
 * For Karl Willing, #179, his position is listed as commander of the II./Grenadier-Regiment 120 (mot.). What does mot. mean? Could you possibly link it? I find seven other instances of it in the article.
 * stands for a motorized unit, I changed it MisterBee1966 (talk) 05:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Red link filling could be done, but I don't know if all of them are that notable.
 * Even FLC only requires 80 to 90% coverage. I think this is given MisterBee1966 (talk) 05:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Everything else looks fine. I envy your ability to read German. Buggie111 (talk) 14:24, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The Swords greater than 143 are in quotation marks, not brackets. But that's a very minor error.
 * Last thing: Hans-Ulrich Rudel  is listed as  getting the 1st Golden Oak Leaves. Since he was the only one awarded the Golden Oak Leaves, shouldn't the Notes section say  awarded only Golden Oak Leaves on December 29, 1944. Buggie111 (talk) 19:04, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No, because the sources list him as first recipient and as the law indicates it could have been awarded 12 times. This is compliant with all the major sources (Fellgiebel, Scherzer, Obermaier, Range, Kretschmer) on the Knight's Cross MisterBee1966 (talk) 05:01, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

*One thing entries 186 and 187 for example - 186 is written as the commander of the battalion while 187 is the leader of the battalion. Is this some strange German terminology or should they both be battalion commanders ? --Jim Sweeney (talk) 20:37, 4 September 2010 (UTC) Support --Jim Sweeney (talk) 14:56, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Support. Buggie111 (talk) 16:30, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm wildly guessing that commander meas the guy who sits around at the HQ, while leader means the guy who leads them in battle. I think I'm wrong, though. Buggie111 (talk) 22:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

The subtle difference between leader and commander is similar to Staffelkapitän and Staffelführer in the Luftwaffe. The leader is either a deputy position or still in a period of probation. Unlike the Medal of Honor, there is no official or even unofficial citation accompanying the award. So it would be very difficult if not impossible to write a reason for the award. In some instances you may find some information on the reason if you research the biography of the individuals themselves. MisterBee1966 (talk) 04:57, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comments—A1 citation presentation quality:
 * Fraschka, Günther (1994). is given in the bibliography but not used in short citations.
 * Berger, Florian (1999). given but not used. Also suspect SELF published.
 * Both moved to further reading section MisterBee1966 (talk) 06:53, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Is Selbstverlag Florian Berger sufficiently well known as a publisher to not need location information?
 * Added location MisterBee1966 (talk) 06:53, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * For those of us without German, a translation of the titles in the bibliography would be very handy?
 * If only we could compress your notes and your citations into one?
 * Incorrect citation of Reichsgesetzblatt Teil, original publisher and location not given, yes, even for government sources (ie: the ministry or department as given on each publication). The electronic reprint is given perfectly, and should still remain.
 * Thanks, fixed as well MisterBee1966 (talk) 07:04, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Fifelfoo (talk) 02:50, 8 September 2010 (UTC) Note:Below support offered after closure. Support--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 17:37, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Support:
 * no dab links, ext links work and alt text is present (no action required);
 * I think the wording for Note # 14 should be tweaked as the language is a little awkward, e.g. use of the contraction "hadn't"; "also not mentioned" (needs something added to it such as "also it is not mentioned..."); "proposed him" (not sure if proposed is the correct word, perhaps "presented him the award", or "invested"). AustralianRupert (talk) 13:01, 11 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.