Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Lou Spence


 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Peacemaker67 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 01:20, 14 November 2018 (UTC) &laquo; Return to A-Class review list

Lou Spence
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 * Nominator(s): 

Following on from Vance Drummond and Dick Cresswell, another RAAF pilot closely associated with the Korean War. Like Cresswell, Spence was a World War II veteran who commanded Australia's sole air combat unit in Korea, No. 77 Squadron, and won plaudits doing so. Like Drummond, Spence was a wing commander who seemed destined for the top but died too soon, and in uncertain circumstances. In the case of Spence's fatal last dive, it might have been ground fire or simply misjudgement that did it. Personally I think exhaustion played a part, as the load he carried in Korea seems a good deal more than the average squadron commander. To me it's telling that a month after his death the RAAF split off the maintenance, base support, and air transport portions of No. 77 Squadron and put the lot of them under a superior wing organisation, effectively relieving some of the pressure on the fighter unit's CO. But that's all OR, so take with a grain of salt... Anyway, I think this might have the legs for FA as well, so have at it. Thanks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:43, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Support Comments by JennyOz
Hi Ian, only a few comments... That's it from me, regards JennyOz (talk) 14:50, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * He was employed as a clerk at the Bank of New South Wales in Brisbane - maybe insert wlink Queensland headquarters (or branch) after Wales? (ref 2 Sunday Mail says it was Queen St.)
 * Will do, tks.
 * No. 3 Squadron attacked sixteen Junkers Ju 87 Stuka dive bombers escorted by six Messerschmitt Bf 109 fighters - is ambiguous ie could read as No. 3 was escorted by the Messerchmitts (German/Italian hasn't been mentioned and we can't assume all readers know whose aircraft are whose).
 * Reworded slightly.
 * Even though the Stukas and 109s must've been German, the source doesn't explicitly say so. I've just added "German and Italian" forces to an earlier sentence to at least establish them as the squadron's opposition. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:30, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * No. 1 Wing - wlink?
 * Linked earlier as No. 1 (Fighter) Wing.
 * Arthur Mailey - change Arthur to Walter? (He was son of cricketer Arthur Mailey). Has a redlink as Walter on List of World War II aces from Australia. He mentions being picked up by Lou Spence(r) in this great read. Garrisson has full name.
 * Ha, Arthur was a typo. Tks for finding that interview, hadn't seen that one.
 * Notes, ref 61 - not working, (not supplement). URL should be this?
 * Tks!
 * Refs, 3 of the airpower URLs not working, seem to have moved?...
 * Garrisson, A.D. (1999). Australian Fighter Aces 1914–1953. - link not working (pdf now via here (though they have typo in Garrisson's initials)
 * Eather, Steve (1996). Odd Jobs: RAAF Operations in Japan, the Berlin Airlift, Korea, Malaya & Malta, 1946–1960 - link not working (pdf now via here (though they have decade span error 1946-1970)
 * Odgers, George (2008) now?
 * Ugh, thought I'd updated all those Air Power Development Centre links, will do...
 * All other online sources are working
 * Tks as always Jenny. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 20:15, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * All these points should now be actioned, Jenny -- tks again. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:30, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks Ian, all tweaks spot on. I'd normally wait for some milhist editors before supporting but I had a good look through online refs and can see images are PD, so I am happy to support up front. Thanks, JennyOz (talk) 15:19, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

Comments from AustralianRupert
Support: G'day, Ian, not a lot stood out to me. I have a couple of minor comments: AustralianRupert (talk) 13:02, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 * pull out of his very steep dive --> "pull out of a very steep dive"?
 * Mrs Spence: I assume this was Spence's widow, Vernon? If so, possibly better to say this, or maybe "his widow", or maybe even by her first name, if you are wanting to vary the language from the previous mention?
 * Done these two.
 * Sources seem reliable to me, coming from reputable publishers, or government sources. Formatting seems consistent also
 * in the World War II section, I wonder about potentially swapping the orientation of the two images, i.e. making the first one right aligned, and the second left aligned (suggestion only)
 * Tend to agree it'd be better to right-orient the first one so Spence 'looks into' the article but on my recommended laptop res of 1366x798, that would put it under the infobox, shoving the other pics down or, if I left-orient the second, making the two parallel and sandwiching a lot of text. Also for the second, I agree the Spit dominates the pic so should perhaps be the element that points into the article, but since the key subject is Spence and he's looking in there could be arguments both ways...
 * Agreed... for some reason when I tested the swap on my other lap top I didn't get any sandwiching, but I do now. Must be a difference of screen sizes, maybe. Anyway, either way is fine. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 23:26, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Images seem appropriately licenced/sourced, although a couple of minor tweaks are suggested:
 * "File:Lou Spence of 77 Sqn RAAF (AWM JK1019).JPG": suggest replacing the licences with PD-AustraliaGov
 * Agree, done.
 * "File:F-51Ds 77 Sqn RAAF at Iwakuni c1950.jpg": source link appears to return a 404
 * So many of our USAF pics have had URL changes -- we're lucky with this one in that the Wayback Machine has one archived copy (many of the images don't in my experience) so updated the link.
 * Tks for taking a look Rupert -- as I've said elsewhere, great to see you back. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 21:49, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * No worries, Ian. Nice work as always. Always easy to review your work. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 23:26, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Comments Support from Kges1901
Excellent article. Reading through it, the prose is excellent, so I do not have much to comment on. In general, there seems to be unnecessary repetition of year dates, for example in the Korean War section 1950 is mentioned more than once.
 * Fair enough, in general now have tried to keep to mentioning the same year once in a paragraph.
 * Thanks for addressing that. Changed to Support. Kges1901 (talk) 12:28, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Source review
 * All sources seem RS and of high quality. One question: most of the books that are online are linked except for the RAAF squadron history books - Units of the Royal Australian Air Force: A Concise History, which are also on the APDC website. Kges1901 (talk) 23:18, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Done. Tks very much for checking over the article, Kges. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:52, 13 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.