Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Roderic Dallas


 * The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.  No further edits should be made to this discussion.


 * Promoted -MBK004 23:38, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Roderic Dallas

 * Nominator(s): Ian Rose (talk)

Major revamp of an old article on a great pilot and leader of men in World War I, generally reckoned to be second only to Robert Little on the list of highest-scoring Australian aces, but given Dallas' almost complete indifference to making claims, who knows? This is a joint nom with Georgejdorner, who added a great deal of information gleaned from the subject's sole full-length biography, while I looked after the format and added some further detail from other sources. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:21, 8 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Support This is an excellent article which easily meets the A class criteria. I do have a few suggestions for further development though:
 * "Dallas would later evoke wonder that he could fit into the cramped cockpits of fighter planes." is unclear and the prose is a bit purple and old-fashioned
 * "he was considered to possess the feline reflexes of a born athlete" ditto
 * Fair enough - as a minimilist approach, how about something like Dallas would later inspire surprise at his ability to fit into the cramped cockpits of fighter planes. Despite his size, he was a fine athlete with quick reflexes.? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:34, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * 'Dallas would later inspire surprise at his ability' is a bit cumbersome, though I'm not sure what an improvement would be without seeing the supporting source - could you say 'Observers were later surprised that Dallas could fit into the cramped cockpits of fighter planes"? Nick-D (talk) 09:58, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * J.A. Jensen could be red linked
 * I've just linked this to Jens Jensen (who appears to have been a rather nasty piece of work judging from his article!)
 * Tks for finding him, mate. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:34, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that 'gulled' might be a bit of an obscure term - 'tricked', perhaps?
 * Probably more like it... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:34, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Was No. 1 Squadron's strength reduced from 18 to 15 pilots or aircraft? (or both?)
 * Fair question - George, can you answer? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:34, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Aircraft - altered accordingly. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:05, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You may wish to double-check the location details for the Osprey books in the references section - the company gives its location as Botley (though I think that they used to be based in Oxford proper). Nick-D (talk) 10:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, it always used to be Oxford, but I will check. Tks for review, Nick! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:34, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The books in question say "Botley, Oxford", and since Oxford is a city (as opposed to them saying "Oxfordshire", the county) I think it's probably fair enough (as well as pragmatic!) to leave as Oxford. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:05, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. From looking at Google maps it seems that Botley is pretty much a suburb of Oxford. Nick-D (talk) 09:20, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Support Fascinating fellow. Sources look good, it's comprehensive, and I read for prose. I have a couple of prose/clarity issues, which are really nitpicky, but I figure you're going on to FAC so I'll bring them up here.


 * trialled? You made that up. It's not really a word, is it?
 * It's in Wictionary...!
 * he generally preferred to be soft-spoken and was not known to curse or drink alcohol, nor often to smoke....Pondering...does one prefer to be soft-spoken, or is this a normal modulation?
 * I think it's a valid figure of speech but could alter to "was generally soft-spoken and not known to curse..."
 * topping the entrance examination over eighty-four students. He scored higher than 84 students? Is that what you mean by topping? Out of how many?
 * Actually looks like there were 84 students in total so how about "topping the entrance examination over 83 other students"?
 * pilot's license 1514...does this mean he was the 1514th person to get a license? in Britain? the Commonwealth entirely?
 * I understand that to be the number on the certificate, whether it literally means he was the 1514th such licensee I don't know but I wouldn't have thought it an issue...
 * I figured that a French Maurice Farman was an aircraft, but I initially thought it was a person. Is there anyway to mark this so that it is obviously an aircraft and not a person
 * I could add "biplane" after it...
 * Bloody April. I'd clarify this specifically.  As Bloody  April began, so-called because the RAF had particularly high casualties, ...
 * How about "As British losses in the air mounted during Bloody April..."?
 * image of Dallas in fur coat: I'd say to protect, not address.
 * Okay.
 * His men also saw that he would not only look over and protect his rookie pilots .... look over? watch over? look out for?  that's what you mean?
 * How about just "His men also saw that he would not only look out for his rookie pilots..."?
 * new mount with inline engine....?
 * Will link to Inline engine (aviation).
 * ...someways one of his planes came off? does this mean one of the wings?
 * "Plane" is probably short for "tail plane" (meaning one of his tail wings) but I generally prefer not to link in direct quotes unless 100% sure what was meant.
 * were the Sopwith Camels more agile than the triplanes?
 * I'm not certain of that, but the Camels were probably stronger and certainly better armed. I wasn't planning to include a comparison...
 * down dived from a still higher altitude.
 * Might change to "had dived".
 * death/legacy section: I would start it with this sentence ''Dallas never read the letter from headquarters promoting him to Lieutenant Colonel and appointing him to the command of a wing—relieving him from flight duty in the process.[2][38]
 * why was he on a solo mission? Wasn't that verboten?  Or at least stupid?
 * Changing the first sentence is not a bad idea, will look at this and come up with something. I don't think we know for sure why he was flying solo, unless George has something in one of his refs.
 * Richtofen was in the hospital three months?  this is confusing.
 * Could you elaborate? I'd agree it may be a bit fussy but it didn't seem confusing to me...
 * Adrian Hellwig, in the bibliography to his 2006 biography, his 2006 biography of Dallas ?
 * Yes, but I thought including "of Dallas" was a bit obvious/repetitive.

REALLY terrific article. Support for ACR! Auntieruth55 (talk) 22:27, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * On behalf of George and myself, thank you very much, Ruth. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:43, 10 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments
 * No problems reported with alt text or dab links. Two external links are reported as dead, please fix this forthwith.
 * Okay, ta.
 * Did Dallas go from Lieutenant to Major without passing through the captain step, and possible the 1st lieutenant step? The article seems to suggest this, but I have my doubts. See if you can turn up anything about this. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:49, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually it's all in there, but admittedly it gets a bit intricate when you go from Royal Naval Air Service rankings to the early days of the succeeding Royal Air Force. Dallas progressed from Flight Sub-Lieutenant to Flight Lieutenant to Flight Commander in the RNAS, then to Major in the RAF - so he was never a Captain per se, only the equivalent RNAS rank. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:23, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Support: I couldn't find anything to pick issue with. Well done. — AustralianRupert (talk) 02:40, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Tks Rupert. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:39, 14 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.