Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Roy Phillipps


 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted Hawkeye7 (talk) 09:35, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Roy Phillipps

 * Nominator(s): Ian Rose (talk)

Following on from Elwyn Roy King, another article on an Australian ace of World War I that I felt might be worthy of A-Class after expanding it with additional sources since its GAN a couple of years ago. Like King, Phillipps left military flying after the Armistice to run a business and raise a family but joined the RAAF after the outbreak of World War II and died relatively young while commanding a training unit. Tks in advance for your comments! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:21, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. - Dank (push to talk) Support: looks good, Ian, up to the usual standard. I have a couple of suggestions, though: AustralianRupert (talk) 10:22, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * "he attacked one of the German fighters and shot away its wing, causing the others to retreat.": I don't know what "causing" means here.
 * Tweaked/simplified.
 * Support on prose per standard disclaimer. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 17:37, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Tks Dan. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 17:47, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Happy to help. - Dank (push to talk) 18:01, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * images look good (in terms of licences and visually), I particularly like the one with his daughter from a personal perspective... ;-)
 * You ol' softie (what can I say, it got me too)... ;-)
 * "and his wife Cecil..." is this a typo? Do you mean "Cecilia?" or something like that (just checking...)
 * Fair question, I had to double-check myself when writing the article but it's Cecil in the ADB and in his personnel file at NAA.
 * "pastoral property in the Kimberley when war broke out in August 1914" --> perhaps the details of the war could be clarified here. For instance, "pastoral property in the Kimberley when war between the British Empire and Germany broke out in August 1914..." or something similar;
 * I felt it best to keep it simple and general to reflect the sources.
 * "he joined the 28th Battalion, raised the same month at Blackboy Camp, Western Australia..." --> you might add here that the 28th Battalion was an infantry unit, to clarify for the readers. For instance, something like this might work: "he joined the 28th Battalion, an infantry unit raised the same month at Blackboy Camp, Western Australia..."
 * Sure.
 * "The 28th Battalion was not heavily engaged on the peninsula, suffering relatively few casualties before the evacuation in December..." Again, perhaps it could be clarified as to why. Understood, this is not an article about the 28th Battalion (ack, I'm working on writing that offline myself currently), but it might be good to clarify a little. For instance, "The 28th Battalion, which had been sent to Gallipoli late in the campaign as reinforcements, was not heavily engaged on the peninsula, suffering relatively few casualties before the evacuation in December."
 * Good, yes.
 * "Phillipps and the battalion deployed to France for service on the Western Front in March 1916." There is a slight gap in the narrative here, for instance, it could be clarified that the 28th (as indeed were all the Australian battalions) was withdrawn to Egypt after the evacuation of Gallipoli;
 * I kinda feel that with the paragraph break we can afford such a gap...
 * "Phillipps took part in the Battle of the Somme" --> not sure about this, the Battle of the Somme was the wider battle that took place between July and November, so technically when Phillipps fought at Pozieres, he was taking part in the Battle of the Somme...
 * Very good point, not sure how that ref to the Somme made it in there in the first place...
 * "as an adjutant in No. 2 Squadron" --> "as an adjutant" or "as the adjutant" (I could be wrong, but most units usually only have one in my experience)
 * I might just hedge my bets and say "as adjutant" (could probably stand being linked too)...
 * "and "fell like a stone"..." (should the quote be attributed in text here?)
 * Well I did attribute it to the official history earlier in the sentence...
 * "and "their machines came back full of bullet-holes"..." (as above) AustralianRupert (talk) 10:22, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Thought it'd be overdoing it to mention the same source again... Tks for review Rupert! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:39, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Comments Support. Looks good to me now. HJ Mitchell &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?  19:06, 13 March 2014 (UTC) — HJ Mitchell &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?  21:52, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I know you're trying to be concise in the lead, but awarded the Military Cross and Bar makes it sound like he was awarded the MC and the bar simultaneously
 * Fair enough, what about "awarded two Military Crosses"?
 * Works for me.
 * Is war broke out not a bit of an Easter egg?
 * Maybe -- I don't have a strong feeling about it so don't mind losing the link.
 * I don't think it adds much, so I'd suggest removing it if you're happy with that.
 * requiring repatriation to England Isn't repatriation usually to one's home country? Would "evacuation" be better?
 * "Repatriation" was the term used in the source but don't mind altering to "evacuation".
 * I'd go with "evacuation" unless a dictionary disagrees with my interpretation (I had a quick check of Cambridge, which seems to agree with me).
 * Phillipps rejoined his unit in October but was wounded again the following month Do we know what sort of wound he suffered?
 * Secondary sources don't say, although the implication seems to be that it was again in the leg, since he was invalided out on account of it being part-paralysed. OTOH I could scour his personnel file at the Archives and see if that turns up more?
 * It's worth a look if it's not too much effort, but it's not essential.
 * altering his birthdate from 1892 to 1896 to do so Why did he need to alter his birth date?
 * Frustratingly the sources never made this explicit when I first wrote the article; again by implication, the assumption was that there was an upper age limit for pilot training. Since you bring it up, I do notice that in the latest book on the AFC it mentions that although the official age limit was 30, the "strong preference" was for those under 23, so I could mention that as a standalone statement/clarification.
 * It would be nice to have this in there in some form.
 * Phillipps married Ellen Robinson Do we know much more about her? Presumably he took leave to get married; was that unusual in wartime?
 * I think what we have, i.e. daughter of so-and-so from wherever, is about the max info one usual gets about soldiers' wives, at least in my experience. Based on the number of personnel files I've seen over the years, a few days leave here and there during combat service was not unusual.
 * Fair enough. Would have been nice, but again, not essential. HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?  17:00, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Many tks for looking it over, Harry. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:51, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
 * All done now, I think -- incidentally when adding the second thigh wound I dropped the bit about a partly paralysed leg because it's not mentioned in the personnel file and the secondary sources that do mention it also say it led to him being repatriated to Australia before joining the AFC, which further contradicts what's in his file... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 17:49, 13 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.