Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/SMS Hessen


 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Cinderella157 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 11:30, 3 April 2018 (UTC) &laquo; Return to A-Class review list

SMS Hessen

 * Nominator(s): 

This was the oldest battleship to see action at Jutland, but like the other German pre-dreadnoughts, she was not heavily engaged during the battle. The ship soldiered on with the post-war Reichsmarine before being converted into a target ship; in that role, she was one of the only major German warships to survive World War II, and she was taken by the Soviets as a prize. After some 55 years in service between four different navies, the ship was ultimately scrapped in 1960. Thanks to those who take the time to review the article. Parsecboy (talk) 13:19, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Support from CPA-5
G'day another FAC another FA-classe review let we see what we have here. CPA-5 (talk) 13:50, 14 February 2018 (UTC)


 * What was the rank or job of Franz von Hipper back then in this line. "the retreat of Franz von Hipper's battered"
 * That's a bit too much tangential detail for the lead section of the article - in fact, I think removing the names altogether is a better solution.
 * Please link this words
 * Western Front
 * Done
 * Both of the seas in this line. "Baltic and North Seas"
 * Done
 * Treaty of Versailles in this line "terms of the Treaty of Versailles"
 * Done
 * Czar in this line. "where Czar Nicholas II of Russia met the German fleet"
 * Done
 * Canberra, Australia
 * Done
 * How much is. "250 mm of armor plating"
 * That figure is converted already a line or two above.
 * "at 02:00 CET" --> "at 02:00 (CET)"
 * Parentheses are not recommended at MOS:TIMEZONE
 * Please put (CET) after every time like
 * 03:00
 * 03:07
 * 03:10
 * 03:12
 * 05:06
 * 05:13
 * 06:55
 * I don't think that's necessary after the first usage.
 * How much is "five 28 cm rounds, thirty-four 17 cm shells, and twenty-four 8.8 cm rounds" in inches and "The ship's four 28 cm guns"
 * Those are all converted earlier - generally conversions are only given on the first instance.
 * Can you remove VAdm I mean there are some places where it says VAdm and other where it says Vice Admiral even it's the same?
 * Including their ranks is an important detail. Thanks for your review. Parsecboy (talk) 13:18, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * G'day, could you please clarify if you are supporting this article's promotion? Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:34, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I am sorry. I totally forgot about this thanks to reminding me. Sorry again. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 16:26, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Support by Sturmvogel_66

 * Tell the reader how long between Hessen's and Dreadnought's commissionings
 * Good idea
 * magazines and machinery spaces add "propulsion"
 * Done
 * at either end of the hull Howzabout "at the ends of the hull"?
 * Works for me
 * What kind of ship was Blitz?--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 02:12, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Done, thanks Sturm. Parsecboy (talk) 13:07, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Support by AustralianRupert
Looks pretty good to me, Nate. I have a couple of minor comments: AustralianRupert (talk) 03:30, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * seems inconsistent: eighteen 8.8 cm (3.45 in) SK L/35 quick-firing guns (body) v. 14 × 8.8 cm (3.5 in) SK L/35 guns (infobox)
 * Good catch, 18 is correct.
 * suggest adding a translation for the title of the Francois
 * Good idea
 * suggest linking officer and enlisted
 * Done
 * it's preserved as the... --> it is preserved as the...
 * Sometimes I forget about the contraction thing.
 * I Scouting Group is overlinked
 * Fixed. Thanks AR. Parsecboy (talk) 13:14, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * G'day, Nikki, this one is almost ready for closure. If you are free, would you mind taking a look at the images? Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 23:28, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Image review
 * Suggest scaling up the Jutland map
 * Done
 * File:SMS_Hessen_postcard.png: not finding this on the 1914-1918 site - do you have a link? Nikkimaria (talk) 23:41, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I searched for quite a while and couldn't find it either - it must have been deleted from the site. I went through other uploads I did from Europeana and it seems like a lot of them have been removed (or at least the location changed and I can't find the image anymore). Parsecboy (talk) 20:57, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I would think that, since it's a postcard, the source shouldn't be all that relevant, but if the Europeana source (and the associated license) can't be confirmed, it ought to be moved to en.wiki under a PD-US-1923-abroad tag. Do you think that's a workable solution, ? Parsecboy (talk) 15:58, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * That would work, if we can include an original date. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:46, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't have a date, but it's clearly a pre-war postcard - these were popular in Germany while it had a fleet to speak of, but less so when it did not (see for instance this one of a sister ship from 1907). If that's not good enough, I'll have to pull it. Parsecboy (talk) 23:03, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * , do you have an opinion on that? Parsecboy (talk) 19:48, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, should work with a reasonable estimate too. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:12, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thanks Nikki! Parsecboy (talk) 23:24, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Support from Nigel Ish

 * " While in reserve at Brunsbüttel, Hessen was jokingly referred to as SMS "Kleinste Fahrt" (SMS "Shortest Voyage") because of a warning that had been painted on the ship's hull..." Is it known what the warning said?
 * Gröner doesn't say, and neither do Hildebrand et. al.
 * "In July, Hessen and the torpedo boat V190 visited Neufahrwasser; they were the first German warships to visit Gdansk since Germany lost control of the city to Poland after the war." - technically wasn't Danzig/Gdansk a free city and not Polish? This could do with a little clarification.
 * Technically, yes, though the city's external affairs were largely controlled by Poland
 * Does the article need to conform to Talk:Gdansk/Vote?
 * Do you mean to call it Danzig instead? It wasn't something I've paid all that much attention to, but I'd guess so. Parsecboy (talk) 16:24, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
 * "She and her control ship, the ex-destroyer Blitz, were ceded..." - According to Conways 1906–21, Blitz (former T141, ex-S141) was scrapped in 1933 (i.e. before Hessen was converted to a target ship). Pfiel (ex-T139/S139) also served as a control ship and was scrapped in 1945, while Komet (ex S23) also appears to have been a control boat for Hessen and appears to be the control ship that went to the Soviet Union.
 * This is the second Blitz, formerly SMS V185 - see the article on SMS Zähringen.
 * The infobox converts the 8.8 cm guns as 3.5 inch, while the body of the text gives the conversion as 3.45 inch - should the article be consistent in conversions?
 * Good catch, fixed.
 * Was the armament of the ship in Reichsmarine service the same as when the ship was built?
 * As far as I'm aware, yeah. I can check Dodson on this tonight to be sure.
 * Added a couple of lines to clarify the changes made to the ship after the war. Parsecboy (talk) 01:00, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Jane's Fighting Ships 1931 gives a secondary armament of 12 6.7 inch guns and a tertiary armament of four 8.8cm low angle guns and 4 8.8 cm anti-aircraft guns. Groner should say something on this - the German (1982, Vol 1) edition also gives a similar armament.
 * I don't generally trust Jane's all that much, but I'll take a look at Groener. Parsecboy (talk) 16:24, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Groener states "In Reichsmarine service...Fourteen (twelve after 1931) 17cm/40 QF guns, four 8.8cm/45 QF guns (until 1931) and four 8.8cm/45 AA guns..." so Jane's is not quite right, as I suspected. Parsecboy (talk) 23:04, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I think that that closes out my questions adequately - so the article is good to go.Nigel Ish (talk) 08:57, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * The German Official History Der Krieg in der Ostsee volume 3 (there's a copy somewhere on the Internet Archive) refers to Hessen in its index - it may be worth checking that Hessen didn't serve in the Baltic sometime during WW1.Nigel Ish (talk) 18:57, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Hessen served in the Danish straits (see the paragraph before the Jutland section, for instance), which is what Der Krieg in der Ostsee talks about. Thanks, Nigel. Parsecboy (talk) 19:43, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
 * G'day . This one looks good to promote, I'm just wondering if you are happy with Parsecboy's responses? Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:39, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
 * A couple of points still outstanding - I've commented above.Nigel Ish (talk) 12:57, 1 April 2018 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.