Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/SMS Undine

Article promoted by Peacemaker67 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 07:20, 26 November 2020 (UTC) &laquo; Return to A-Class review list

SMS Undine
Instructions for nominators and reviewers
 * Nominator(s): 

Sturmvogel has his ill-fated French battleships, but I have my ill-fated German cruisers ;) This one struck a Russian mine in late 1915 during World War I, which, coupled with the loss of SMS Prinz Adalbert (1901), prompted the Germans to stop fleet operations for the rest of the year. Thanks for reviewing the article. Parsecboy (talk) 15:27, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Comments Support from Hog Farm
Will get to this later. Hog Farm Bacon 15:34, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

That's all I can find. Good work. Hog Farm Bacon 18:23, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * "she was armed with a battery of ten 10.5 cm (4.1 in) guns and a top speed of 21.5 knots (39.8 km/h; 24.7 mph)" - Reads a little clunky, the phrasing could almost be read to indicate that the speed clause is part of the "armed with ..." clause
 * Does inserting a "had" fix it?
 * "Undine exploded and sank, but casualties were relatively light, with fourteen or twenty-five killed in the sinking." - This could use the overall normal strength to compare the total losses to, as relatively light is subjective.
 * Added
 * Add the range to the infobox
 * Done
 * "and the deck were protected by 50 mm (2 in) thick gun shields" - Something seems odd here. First, deck would be "was", not "were", and the deck is guarded completely by gun shields?
 * Apparently I pasted the deck link in the wrong spot - fixed
 * The two screw propellers in the infobox aren't cited/mentioned anywhere
 * Added
 * The horsepower number in the infobox is different from the one in the
 * Fixed
 * "After completing her testing on 23 March, she was transferred to Wilhelmshaven and decommissioned there on 30 March. After her commissioning, Undine was assigned to the training squadron on 10 January 1905 " - So was the second comissioning on 10 January 1905? It's not clear where the transition from decomissioned on 30 March to being recommissioned by the next January occurs.
 * Clarified
 * "thereafter patrolling the line Trelleborg–Sassnitz." - This reads a little awkward. Is there a better way to phrase this?
 * Reworded
 * "Hildebrand, Röhr, & Steinmetz Vol. 8, " - Is there an ISBN for this source?
 * Not that I've been able to track down - the books themselves don't have an ISBN printed in them, and Worldcat oddly doesn't have an entry for the 8th volume
 * Does Naval Notes Germany have an OCLC?
 * Added
 * "Naval Notes—Germany" - Is the extra long dash intentional? On my system, it looks longer than the endash
 * Switched to ndash
 * " and during one of these exercises in November 1904, she accidentally rammed and sank the torpedo boat SMS S126." - The rest of the article states that it was in 1905, not 1904
 * Good catch
 * Thanks Hog Farm. Parsecboy (talk) 21:40, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Comments Support by CPA-5
That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 09:13, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * SMS Undine was the last member of the ten-ship Add a note which states what SMS means.
 * Done
 * were built for the German Kaiserliche Marine (Imperial Navy) Pipe Germany to the German Empire.
 * Done
 * and had a top speed of 21.5 knots (39.8 km/h; 24.7 mph) Link knots here.
 * Done
 * After the outbreak of World War in August 1914 --> "After the outbreak of World War I in August 1914"
 * Good catch
 * and the aviso Hela for the German Kaiserliche Marine (Imperial Navy) Pipe German to the German Empire.
 * Done
 * all of the light cruisers built by the German fleet Unlink German here.
 * Done
 * Is there a link for the Construction Department?
 * No - the German naval organization isn't very thoroughly developed here. At some point, I'll get around to writing articles on the German counterparts to BuShips, BuOrd, etc., but that probably won't be for a while
 * the conning tower and increasing the beam From how many metres to 12.4 m?
 * Clarified
 * Undine was 105 meters (344 ft 6 in) long overall and had a beam of 12.4 m (40 ft 8 in) and a draft of 4.81 m (15 ft 9 in) forward Maybe use a comma instead of the first "and"?
 * I can put a comma there, but we still need the "and"
 * They were supplied with 1,500 rounds of ammunition, for 150 shells per gun Per minute right?
 * No, it's not the rate of fire, just the allowance per gun
 * 11 December 1902, and during the ceremony, Prince Otto zu Salm-Horstmar Prince of which country in the German Empire?
 * He wasn't one; the Salm-Horstmar line originated with Salm-Horstmar, but that was a Napoleonic creation, and it was absorbed by Prussia in 1813
 * on the night of 17 November, she accidentally The night of 16/17 or 17/18?
 * I don't know, neither of the sources say specifically, and none of the other contemporary journals I've seen reference to the incident say either. Based on some of the phrasing I've seen, I'd assume 17/18, but I can't say for sure. Parsecboy (talk) 14:31, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * the work was performed at the Kaiserliche Werft (Imperial Shipyard) in Wilhelmshaven Link Wilhelmshaven.
 * It's linked earlier
 * She initially patrolled the line between Dornbusch and Møn What are these? Islands, towns, cities, ports or villages?
 * Dornbusch is an area on the island of Hiddensee
 * at Undine at a range of 1,000 meters (3,300 ft), both of which hit. --> "at Undine at a range of 1,000 m (3,300 ft), both of which hit."
 * Done
 * Link "Normal".
 * Done
 * Undine was initially used as a artillery Wrong article.
 * Good catch
 * Thanks CPA. Parsecboy (talk) 14:31, 2 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi, are you able to venture an opinion on this, or is there more to come? Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:08, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah great, opinion no, but to me, I couldn't find anything else so I think it's ready to go. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 15:53, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Support from Harrias
That's it from me, nice article: a couple of minor tweaks needed, but nothing that stop me from supporting. Harrias (he/him) • talk 15:10, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
 * "During this period, from 10 January to September.." Given you've already given the specific date, I'd made this less specific, and remove "10".
 * "..according to Erich Gröner, fourteen men were killed, but Hans Hildebrand, Albert Röhr, and Hans-Otto Steinmetz.." I assume these are all historians? Could that be made clear in the article?

Source review - pass
Sources all appear to be reliable. No formatting issues detected (Hildebrand vol. 8 apparently has no ISBN, see above). Spot checks not conducted, as I don't have any of these books, but I'm familiar with this editor's work, and I've had no sourcing issues in the past. Hog Farm Bacon 06:02, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Image review - pass
All images are PD and the licensing details look fine. Hog Farm Bacon 06:02, 26 November 2020 (UTC)