Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Peer review/Battle of Messines

Battle of Messines
Specific comments welcome of course, but really looking for more general feedback at this point. Carom (talk) 19:38, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Nick Dowling
I think that the article is off to a good start. My comments are:
 * I like how the article is structured
 * The background section should cover the tactical situation in the area prior to the attack in greater detail - eg, why did the British choose to directly attack a German strong point?
 * The bit on the conversion of one of the mine craters to a "pool of peace" should go in the aftermath section
 * The opposing forces section should include the numbers of troops involved and their quality/combat readiness
 * The description of the battle is nice and clear, but could be longer. The structure is great and should support an expansion.
 * the phrase "only 16,000 total casualties" is awkward. While less than what the Germans suffered, these were still very heavy losses for a 216,000 strong force to suffer in half a day.
 * The aftermath section is good, but could be longer. Why did Haig think that this carefully planned operation which took over a year to prepare mean that the general offensive would suffer a similar casualty rate?
 * Have you considered using the Australian official history of the war as a reference? The full text of it is available online, and volume V has two chapters on the battle while the summary publication has a single chapter. The Australian official history is still considered a highly reliable source. --Nick Dowling (talk) 05:34, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Many thanks for the comments. I will look into addressing your concerns, and I will also see what the Australian official history has to offer. Carom (talk) 17:39, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Hawkeye7

 * In addition to the chapters that Nick mentions, Bean also has a gripping account of the underground warfare in Appendix No. 1 (pp. 949-959)
 * Here's another good source: Messines and Third Ypres NB: On p. 115 there is a full breakdown of casualties, by branch

I'd like to see: Do you need any pictures?
 * more on the elaborate preparations for Magnum Opus, especially the engineering, signals and artillery plans;
 * more on the opposing troops, listing the divisions involved on both sides;
 * a description of the infantry tactics, especially those of assaulting ferro-concrete pillboxes, and the controversial technique of "leapfrogging" at the operational level;
 * the artillery probably deserves at a least a paragraph of their own, describing the barrages and the CB effort;
 * a paragraph on the logistical support of the battle;
 * a paragraph on the weapons and technology used, including tanks, gas, machine guns, and trench mortars

10:18, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Many thanks for your comments also. I'll see what I can do to add detail to the sections you mention. As far as pictures are concerned, I have not got as far as looking for them, so I'm not sure what is freely available. Carom (talk) 17:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The Australian War Memorial's online database at might be useful. A simple search of 'Messines' returns over 500 photos and 60 artworks, all of which should be out of copyright. --Nick Dowling (talk) 09:33, 12 February 2008 (UTC)