Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Peer review/Francis Harvey

Francis Harvey
British Royal Marines First World War Victoria Cross recipient. Looking to hopefully go places with this and as always WP:Military History/Peer review is the first port of call. Let me know of any issues, all comments gratefully welcomed.--Jackyd101 (talk) 01:49, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Kirill Lokshin
Very nice, overall. A few specific points: Keep up the great work! Kirill 03:16, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The main thing that stands out as needing some thought is the heading structure. The single sub-header in each section is quite jarring (and probably a MoS violation, although I can't recall where I've seen this particular setup mentioned); I'd suggest either eliminating them or bringing them out to be level-2 headers.
 * The "References" section needs to be alphabetized. I'd also suggest not using citation templates if you have sources with no author; the resulting date-first form looks quite strange, in my opinion.
 * The ordering of text in the lead is somewhat strained; I'd suggest placing the second paragraph immediately after the first sentence, and the having the details of Jutland after that, so as to preserve a roughly chronological order.
 * Thankyou for your comments, I think I have addressed these issues and hope the article is improved. Any futher comments?--Jackyd101 (talk) 02:26, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Pēters Vecrumba
Excellent level of detail and very readable. Just a couple of thoughts! PētersV (talk) 03:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Both of the paragraphs seem a bit like opening paragraphs on their own, maybe they can be integrated--it could just be a matter of personal style.
 * The headings might be simplified, perhaps Origins, Military Career,... then the major phases/events all as subtitles within.
 * Thankyou, I have addressed both these concerns in the manner suggested by Kirill above, but your comments were helpful and appreciated.Any further comments?--Jackyd101 (talk) 02:26, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I took another read-through the narrative...
 * I'd like to understand a bit more about the reprimand from the Admiralty regarding Harvey's unfavorable report on San Diego harbor--was Harvey really at fault? did he fail to play politics? How did the circumstances of this incident reflect upon his character?
 * This is only sketchily covered by the sources I have. Snelling reports that Harvey was reprimanded right before he returned home as the result of an unfavourable report he released on San Diego, but the contents of that report are unclear. Reading between the lines (i.e. an opinion which cannot be fully supported by the evidence), the report was probably critical of the port's defences at a time Britain was attempting to woo the United States as a strategic ally. Harvey was by all accounts and honest and honourable man and probably refused to censor it for political reasons. As he was not a senior officer at the time the reportwould have done minor damage to international relations, but nevertheless brought him a minor charge of insubordination. However, this is supposition more than fact and I don't feel comfortable inserting it into the article.


 * Marriage to Ethel Edye--did this courtship start after his appointment as Assistant Instructor for Gunnery at Plymouth Division or sooner (that is, was this an affection that had survived long distance romance while Harvey was at sea)? Again, something that might reflect on personal character and commitment.
 * Hmm tricky, I have no information on their romance, only their vague date of marriage. I can't ad more detail to this without more information from sources. It is likely their courtship occurred during his service with the Channel Fleet.


 * Q turret on the HMS Lion--more to the HMS Lion article, but it would be interesting to know which turret in particular it was, were these the main guns on the ship?
 * HMS Lion had three turrets which could all participate in a broadside. Two had 3 x 13.5" guns and one had 2 x 13.5" guns. Q turret was (I believe) the three gun turret closest to the stern (of course, I meant bow) and in front of the bridge. Sources differ between Harvey controlling only "Q" turret and being in charge of all gunnery on the ship. The truth as ascertained from the most reliable avaliable sources is that he was responsible for organisation, training and operation of the turrets but targets would be chosen by the bridge staff. Harvey's office was in "Q" turret which is why he is sometimes stated to have controlled that turret only.


 * "First World War" sentence needs copy edit... "Lion was left exposed by the poor performance of HMS Tiger a new ship which had and significant troubles in recruiting crew and training.[8] " (superfluous and)
 * Will do.


 * Jutland -- date? (two day battle, assuming it's June 1st, 1916)
 * Will add this info to article.

As I said, I particularly enjoyed the style of narrative. So, again, kudos! PētersV (talk) 02:59, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thankyou for your comments, I have addressed them above.--Jackyd101 (talk) 00:04, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Curious, have you tried contacting the National Archives? On the report on San Diego, it would be significant that this was at a time that Britain was evaluating the U.S.--at least that's some additional context, and you can simply state that the contents of the report are not known but that Harvey was by all reputable accounts an officer of integrity. One can state what is uncertain without necessarily drawing "original research" conclusions. PētersV (talk) 01:57, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I'll have to think on this. As for the archives, although I am a member at the Public Records Office in Kew, I'm too busy right now to go searching for this document. I'll probably follow your second suggestion.--Jackyd101 (talk) 02:08, 24 November 2007 (UTC)