Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Peer review/Józef Piłsudski

Józef Piłsudski
This article has (barely) failed last FAC. Perhaps the members of WPMH could offer further insight how to improve this article, and help to address some of the FAC objections, so it can be renominated in the near future?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:06, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Kirill Lokshin
Well, I didn't see any of the mentioned problems with the article to begin with, so I'm probably not the best person to comment. I would suggest—and I do not know to what extent this would actually be feasible—approaching the objectors and asking them if they might be able to point out some references for their points. If they can, all is good; if they can't, then the points presumably need not be included, as no sources can be found for them. (I would assume that the objectors do have sources—where could they be getting detailed objections otherwise?—and just need to be coaxed into providing them.)

The issue, in my mind, is the timing; now that you know what the objections center around, you can hash the points out on the talk page for as long as is needed to achieve consensus on whether—and how—they should be presented, without the time pressure of a FAC nom. Then, when you do renominate the article, you can point to the previous discussions for any issues that come up again. Kirill Lokshin 00:28, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I asked the objectors for the references in question and received none so far. I will approach them again but if they fail to provide them, I am not sure what can be done, so I was hoping for input from other editors.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus talk 04:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * PS. Plus I think the article can use expantion with relation to miltiary policies of Piłsudski during his reign as dictator - perhaps this would be something that memebers of this WikiProject could more easily help with?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus talk 15:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing that further expansion there would have to come from editors with a good knowledge of Polish military history—and I suspect most of those have already worked on the article (or at least commented on the FAC). Kirill Lokshin 15:49, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Grafikm_fr
While I was supporting the original FAC, it appears that the article has some POV issues. I think that one thing some people want to avoid is to portray a dictator, whatever he/she is, as a nice person. In a sense, a dictator is always a potential (and more often than not real) tyrant.

I found a French article about Pilsudski, written by a French researcher. Among other things, it states, as some pointed out, that JP was indeed a Lithuanian of a noble family. This fact needs further investigation, because factual accuracy is essential. However, this looks like a valid ref to me.

Furthermore, objections from Ukrainian wikipedians pointing out that "Polish-Ukrainian War did not crush the independence of Ukraine, only resolved a territorial dispute." should be addressed because the issue is indeed quite delicate.

Incidentally, it would also appear that the question of POW camps is a delicate one, and should be further explained in the text.

Another issue is IMHO the attempt to portray JP as someone delegating all the affairs to his "colonels" and as such, a potential attempt to improve his image. I think this point either needs further sources proving (or disproving) the whole thing

Overall, I think this is quite FA material (and I supported it), however I can understand that it can cause moderate controversies among some wikipedians. -- Grafikm  (AutoGRAF)  15:46, 27 July 2006 (UTC)