Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Peer review/Robin Olds

Robin Olds
This article covers the subject fairly thoroughly, and is well cited. I believe it's ready for GA nomination, but I would like to have input from the WPMILHIST community before proceeding with a nomination.--Nobunaga24 05:19, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Balloonman

 * The lead section needs to be expanded significantly to comply with WP:Lead. Until the lead is increased, it will fail a GA.
 * I don't know if the military history project has one, but I think there is a better format for presenting the awards/decorations---some sort of box?
 * One of my pet peeves are sentences that run on forever. For example, the second paragraph is the early life chapter is one sentence.  Likewise, the second sentence on the third paragraph. Break it down.
 * If you do insist on long sentences, make sure they are connected smoothly and convey a consistent message. The last sentence in the WW II Fighter Pilot section is very disjointed.  The fact that "at the age of 22 commanded the 434th FS" is not a logical outflow of the first 3/4ths of the sentence.
 * The iconoclastic career section deals with numerous events that aren't notable and detract from the otherwise interesting read.Balloonman 06:10, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Regarding this last criticism, one has to ask which events aren't "notable" and detract? They were notable enough to be a featured part of a major history of US jet fighter pilots by a noted Naval Aviation historian. They cover his major career assignments, which is what an encyclopedia is about. They give background to the professional relationships he forged that coalesced in the 8th TFW. They give substance to his reputation as an iconclast in the Air Force. The other criticsms are valid and are being addressed, except that I originated the use of ribbons in illustrating awards because so many official photographs show them and the images help decipher them. I would love to see a "ribbon bar format", with the definitions below.--Buckboard 08:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanx to MrDolomite for providing the ribbon bar.--Buckboard 01:24, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Emt
The entire WW2 section is unreferenced, description of operation Bolo is unreferenced, much of the Vietnam section is unreferenced, "iconoclastic" is a load word that may be considered POV and the section includes unsupported value judgements like "unhappily". - Emt147 Burninate!  06:44, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I moved "iconoclastic" to the narrative. The use of "unhappily" is the way that period of his career was reported by the source, not a conclusion drawn by me or anyone else for the article. The referencing asked for is a wearisome task that I will get to when I can--I "inherited" this article and I add notes as I add material, but going back over somebody else's ground is an onerous task. Frankly whether it becomes GA or anything else is immaterial to me. IMO a biographical article should be a repository for interesting information that might otherwise be lost if not stored here.--Buckboard 08:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The May 11, 2007 episode of Dogfights was concerned with Robin Olds and Operation Bolo. You should find a way of viewing; it would probably help alot. --MKnight9989 13:26, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Jackyd101
Not a complete review, but a few notes on a skim read of the article. A couple of items which should be included as citations or external links in the references section are present in the text, such as the photostatic record under World War Two fighter pilot or the Great Aviation Quotes at the bottom. Whilst on the point about quotes, that whole section really shouldn't be in the article loose like that. Either put the quotes into the section they apply to (i.e. if he said something during or about his Vietnam service (such as the comment about SAMs), then find a way to include it there). If you don't know when they were said or can't fit them in, then it would be better to transwiki them to Wikiquote as they are unencyclopedic where they are.

The medals section is a little unorthodox. It would be better to include the merit awards he won in the main text as he won them and include only the ribbon bar (which is nice) as an image. Otherwise it is a large and distracting section on what is quite a minor part of his overall life. Another suggestion would be to only have the medal bar in the centre of the section and underneath put "The medals awarded to Robin Olds (from left to right): Air Force Cross, Distinguished Service Medal etc."

The personal section strikes me as being far too small for such a varied and interesting career, especially as he was married to a notable film star. I would also normally expect to see that at the start of the article, under the lead. The football hall of fame should maybe be moved to the football section of the article and the notes on his retirement, which should also be expanded if possible, should be incorporated into the Post-Vietnam career. What did he do between 1973 and 2001? His marriage collapsed but we don't know why, is there anything else which could go there?

These are just a few suggestions and I haven't done a full textual review due to personal time constraints. If you don't agree with anything then by all means say so. As it stands, I personally wouldn't pass it for GA due to my concerns above. However it is a well written and organised article with a lot of good sourcing and covering in depth his aviation career (which was fascinating). Good work, just some tidying to go really.--Jackyd101 20:29, 25 May 2007 (UTC)