Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Discoveries/Log/2008/May

European school-stub types
User:Ratarsed has been on a bit of a spree creating several country-school-stub types for European countries. 34 of them, to be precise - too many to list here, but suffice to say that we now seem to have most of them from Azerbaijan-school-stub in the east to IsleofMan-school-stub in the west. All the ones I checked seem to be upmerged, which is a relief, and all seem OK. It would have been nice to have been told, is all :/ Grutness...wha?  02:33, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Proposed at WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/2008/May, with speedy support -- Ratarsed (talk) 08:23, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Euh -oops. Sorry, I missed that one :) Grutness...wha?  00:53, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Almería-geo-stub /
Unproposed, and looks reasonable, though the category is very much underpopulated (so may need upmerging). As with other Spanish provinces, there are naming concerns about both the stub and permcats, which I've outlined very briefly at WP:CFD. Grutness...wha?  02:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Moldova-singer-stub/
Unproposed. 7 member articles to date. - Lainagier (talk) 23:48, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I've no real objection to the template, but it looks like a definite candidate for possible upmerger, given the number of articles in as a whole (oddly, there are fewer in that than in the stub category!) Grutness...wha?  02:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Montreal-geo-stub/, Montreal-stub/
Created without proposal yesterday. The geo-stub one does at least seem reasonable in terms of a likely necessary split of Quebec-geo-stub (though whether this is the best subregion to start that split with is another matter). A general Montreal-stub is less of a necessity by far, though, since there are fewer than 400 Quebec stubs that have not already been subdivided, and the major form of subdivision there is, understandably, by subject rather than location. There is a wikiproject, by the looks of it, which does mitigate in favour of it to some extent, though (as per normal) a banner talk-page template may be more useful for them in the long run, and the usefulness of a stub template to the rest of wikipedia may be limited. Grutness...wha?  02:35, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Both of these stubs are long overdue, especially the general Montreal stub which corresponds to Toronto-stub, Vancouver-stub and Ottawa-stub. Allows for a consistent approach to articles related to Canada's four largest cities. Skeezix1000 (talk) 21:04, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The important thing is not so much that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but more that there are sufficient stubs to warrant a new stub type. In the case of a Montreal-stub, that's not yet apparent. In the case of a Montreal-geo-stub, geo-stubs are split at sub-provincial level by aqdministrative regions, so any Montreal-geo-stub would have to make clear that it is for the region rather than just the city. Even then, the existence of a category would depend on the necessary number of stubs currently existing that could use it. Grutness...wha?  00:03, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't making a purely WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument - but in any event, I'm not sure I agree that's the only consideration. Even if it were, what is the threshold?  Where are the stats that suggest fewer stubs exist for this stub type than for existing stubs? And as for your geo-stub comment, I am not sure that presents a problem of any kind, but could you point out the guideline for my own information?  Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:21, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And QuebecCity-stub. Bearcat (talk) 17:53, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I would note that the number of relevant articles might not be immediately obvious yet, as the stub templates haven't been all that widely applied yet. For what it's worth, though, in my experience I can pretty safely assert that most Canadians (the people most likely to make use of these in the first place) would simply assume that the stub notices and categories applied to the whole Island of Montreal, and not just the city proper, anyway, so I don't know if a special usage note to clarify that is necessary. I don't think a lot of Canadians even know, for example, that Westmount, Côte Saint-Luc, Hampstead, Outremont, DDO and Senneville are actually separate municipalities; most people just think of them as neighbourhoods of Montreal. Half the time I can't even keep straight which places are separate municipalities and which are just boroughs of Montreal.

When it comes to the geo cat, it's true that almost all other similar Canadian categories are at the level of a region rather than an individual city. Toronto, as far as I can tell, is the only Canadian city that actually has its own dedicated geo-stub category — but going by pure numbers, even Category:Toronto geography stubs isn't strictly necessary, as both Category:Toronto stubs and Category:Golden Horseshoe geography stubs could accomodate an upmerge without becoming excessively large. And in doing a quick scan, I noticed also that it contained numerous items that aren't really geography stubs by any normal definition of that word, including a stadium, a yeshiva, three environmental organizations, a church, a department store, several subway stations and a historic post office. So I might very well propose that one for deletion and upmerging too, and I'm thus unconvinced about the need for Montreal-geo-stub. However, the general Montreal-stub is definitely valid, useful and populatable. Keep the latter, but I reserve judgement on geo for the moment. Bearcat (talk) 17:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Music-business-stub /

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the discovery of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was renamed

Unproposed, created in mid-Feb by the creator of Nimbit, which remains only entry. Catted to but no stub categories. Could happily be merged into (which currently holds several music industry company stubs), but on the other hand I can see it being useful and populable. Lainagier (talk) 22:36, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I can see a use for this category, however I think to match other similar templates use -company- so the template should be renamed Music-company-stub Waacstats (talk) 08:06, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree - a rename/rescope would probably lead to a fairly useful stub type, though upmerging still remains a viable option. Grutness...wha?  01:20, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

AncientGreece-battle-stub (redlink)
Unproposed, but well-formed and probably useful, although it needs some form of category (probably upmerged for the time being at least to ). Grutness...wha?  00:48, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Marching-band-stub (and its redirect Marching Band Stub)
Unproposed, but possibly useful, given the number of articles in the permcat. Certainly needs better than to be directly linked to it, though! Upmerging...erm...somewhere would probably be the best solution for now. As for the name of the redirect, the less said the better (it's probably just about speediable as unused anyway). Marching-band-stub is currently used on two articles (surprisingly, both US ones. I didn't realise it was an organised sport there as well - I thought it was an Australia/New Zealand oddity!) Grutness...wha?  04:15, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * First off, I created the stub and please accept my apologies for not listing it here first. I'm still getting used to the protocol and requirements for things on Wikipedia. Anyway, I would propose this stub will be useful in the immediate future if nothing else. In the next 3-5 days I was planning on creating another 6-7 pages on particular marching bands here in the US. Marching bands are world-wide and this stub could be put to use anywhere, even with bands that you mentioned in New Zealand or Australia. I'm trying to help expand and create pages for college marching bands here in the US and I would love to have this stub available. I believe that we in WikiProject Marching Band, in particular, would use the stub quite often when we create a page for a particular marching band to encourage growth of the topic. Fliry Vorru (talk) 04:57, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Good grief Grutness! I have three words for you: Drum Corps International. Please keep this one, renamed as . Cheers! Her Pegship  (tis herself) 14:22, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Gah - you're right, of course. For some reason, when I saw the stub I instantly thought of marching teams, not marching bands (there doesn't even seem to be an article about competitive marching teams - the closest is majorettes, which seems to be quite different). I've no real objection to the properly-named template (though the redirect should still go). If there are enough stubs for a category, that's fine too (otherwise upmerging is still a likely option). Grutness...wha?  00:07, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It is a summer project of mine to attempt to establish (at the very least, if not more) a stub page with the essential basic information for the marching bands of every college football program in NCAA I-A and I-AA (generally speaking, the bigger schools here in America). Giving it a quick look/estimate, I'd venture to guess that there could be anywhere from 20-70 stubs by the time I'm done with my personal project and that's just me and my goals. Just in colleges and universities here in the US I'd guess there are 300-400 marching bands and there's probably 50 or so documented on Wikipedia. Fliry Vorru (talk) 00:19, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

NOTE: I posted a message regarding this discussion at WikiProject Marching band. →Wordbuilder (talk) 15:39, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Ukraine-university-stub
Unproposed, both redlinked to its own category and upmerged, and with icon troubles. Possibly useful, but given the number of articles in (30), a separate category will not be needed any time soon. Grutness...wha?  02:10, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I created it as in past List of law faculties in Ukraine article used, but Ukraine is not Russia. In fact what we really need for the template: someone should create an image like Image:Flag-map of Russia.svg --eugrus (talk) 14:28, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You mean like Image:Outline of Ukraine.svg, as used on Ukraine-geo-stub? The liost article you mentioned would have normally had Europe-university-0stub on it, though separate country-specific templates are a good idea. the main problem is the number of potential stubs, which indicates that a separate category isn't needed at the moment (it should instead feed into both and ). Grutness...wha?  03:42, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Vanuatu-stub /
Unproposed. It's time all countries had their own basic stub template, but I can't see this one reaching even close to threshold for its own category any time soon. Notwithstanding the geostub subcat, unless there's some serious move towards threshold, this should probably be upmerged into. Grutness...wha?  02:04, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi. I created the stub. Sorry if I didn't go through the proper channels. I had created a stub article relating to Vanuatu, and I was surprised to see that there was no Vanuatu-specific stub, so I created one. My reasoning was that there should be a stub template for each country, and that since small countries such as Nauru (pop. 10,000) and Kiribati (pop. 100,000) already had their own stub templates, there seemed to be no reason for Vanuatu (pop. 200,000) not to have its own. Aridd (talk) 07:55, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Templates, yes, you're right... but not categories. They are created dependent on the number of stub articles, not on the size of the country; they are only created when we know for sure that there are enough stub articles on a subject to make their creation useful to editors (as explained at WP:STUB). Note, for instance, that there are over 80 Nauru stubs and it has its own category, but that Pitcairn-stub, which is only used on about 20 articles, is upmerged into . So, as I said in my initial note on this page, a Vanuatu-stub template is fine, but the category may be a problem. Grutness...wha?  00:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Given that the category would have one sub cat (the geos) and the fact that we already have a Vanuatu-bio-stub with around 20 articles that could be upmerged here, it should not be that difficult to find 20-30 extra stubs on vanuatu. (Off hunting I go) Waacstats (talk) 09:20, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Now has 58 articles, 2 templates and 1 sub cat. Keep  Waacstats (talk) 09:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Good work, W - looks like a keeper now. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  03:54, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Iran-business-bio-stub/
Unproposed, undersized, and very likely to stay that way - there are only 55 articles in total in the permcat and its subtypes, so getting to 60 stubs is unlikely any time soon. Vategory name is also incorrect (should be "Iranian..."). Category parenting is slightly off and template icon is also oversized, but those things more easily dealt with. Iran's bio-stubs are in need of splitting sometime soon, but this looks an unlikely candidate as part of that split (something like a stub for Iranian royalty seems a far better start for such a split). An upmerger may well be needed here. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Australia-museum-stub/
Unproposed, but the template seems reasonable. The category, however, may struggle to reach the required threshold, so upmerging may be in order. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  03:21, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Upmerging is not required. The above Category now has 71 Stubs. Kathleen.wright5 05:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Creator comment sorry, didn't know there was a process because I did it directly from the template for the US museums. There already existed US and UK museum stubs and I thought an Australia category to be appropriate. Please hold off any discussion on up-merging until I have a chance to tag what needs to go in there. I intend to look at those tagged stub that are in Category:Museums in Australia as there are a large number of stubs that fit in the category and articles that aren't tagged at stub but should be. I only *just* created the stub category and posted it to WP:MUSEUMS today TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 03:30, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Reply - Normally separate categories are only created for stub templates if there are a guaranteed 60 stubs that will go in them (as is the case with the US and UK museum categories) - less than that and it becomes fiddly for editors hunting for stubs to expand. But don't panic - if something's posted here, there's usually quite a "grace period" before anything's done. This posting will probably hang around here for at least a couple of months, which should give you and us the chance to see whether there are 60 stubs. If there are, all well and good, but if it peaks too much lower than that then it may be nominated for upmerging at WP:SFD. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  04:18, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Reply ooh good, wasn't sure if this was a Prod/?fD-esque 5 day timeline. I got about 15 in a quick squiz through some of the category and its subcats before I got tired (It's 12:30 EST) but based on that and the fact that we've a list of museum stubs to be createdt I don't think I'll have a problem getting it to 60. The problem will be not bringing those from stub to at least start o:) Thanks for the info and notifying me TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 04:38, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Malaysia-airport-stub
Seems a reasonable addition to the set of country-airport-stub types, and upmerged as well, so no problems from undersized categories. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:41, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Fermanagh-geo-stub /
One of the six traditional counties of Northern Ireland. unproposed, but with 400+ stubs, N.I. is getting close to consideration for a split. Masy need upmerging if there are fewer than 60 stubs, but other than that and a bit of a tidy-up, seems reasonable, and templates for Down, Antrim, et al are probably worth considering, too. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:21, 5 May 2008 (UTC)