Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/Archive/September 2007

This is an archive of discussions from WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals for the month of September 2007. Please move completed September discussions to this page as they occur, add discussion headers to each proposal showing the result, and leave incomplete discussions on the Proposals page. After September, the remainder of the discussions will be moved to this page, whether stub types have been created or not.

Those who create a stub template/cat should be responsible for moving the discussion here and listing the stub type in the archive summary.

Stub proposers please note: Items tagged as "nocreate" or "no consensus" are welcome for re-proposal if and when circumstances are auspicious.


 * Discussion headers:
 * sfp create
 * sfp nocreate
 * sfp other (for no consensus)
 * sfp top for customized result description (use ).
 * Discussion footer: sfd bottom

Suggest speedy. Currently ~80 articles with upmerged japan-figure-skater-stub. Will place as subcat of and, where the current template currently resides. Neier 13:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * What you just said. Alai 14:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy Support as creator of original template. (I missed that one getting oversized) Waacstats 14:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
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South Moravian speedy
Hi all - it's just been pointed out to me that SouthMoravia-geo-stub has reached its 60th article. Time for a, methinks. Grutness...wha?  12:20, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * fits the previous pattern Speedy support. Waacstats 16:29, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy. Alai 20:45, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
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, upmerged speedies
That's all but two of the upmerged templates; regional-level cat is oversized. Alai 23:32, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
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subtypes
Oversized, mainly due to undersorting. OTOH, might be a timely moment to consider some additional subtypes. By denomination seems to be the dominant method: these new ones would work: Also potentially useful would be a, , or both, given the number of (arch)bish-of-someplace-in-England cats we have cluttering up the parent. Alai 00:39, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 139
 * 85
 * or 85
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Trier region geography stubs, probably speediable
These are already approved as upmerged templates, except that I didn't get around to creating them as such. Oh well. At any rate, they're now easily viable as full-fledged types, and the parent (the Rheinland-P-geos) is once more significantly oversized. Since there's a fairly small number of these, I don't see much point in creating the regional container (especially give the small matter of its technical non-existence). Alai 20:13, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
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and subtypes
Also both oversized. One thing we could do would be to move the large number double-stubbed with both into. Otherwise, there's the option of splitting each by decade (hey, it's an oldie, but a goodie). Alai 02:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * How about animated-short-film? Her Pegship  (tis herself) 04:56, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't find any subcat-of--based split that'd work, though animated shorts was the closest, at 23. Of course, that could be both a considerable undercount of that category, and doesn't take animated shorts tagged with other stub types into account.  Alai 05:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Support silent-short-film-stub for now, and I did find nearly 100 stub-sized items in, so I may go through those soon to see if the animated-short type is viable. Her Pegship  (tis herself) 23:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Or would that be short-silent-film-stub? Her Pegship  (tis herself) 00:15, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That was my first thought (hence suggesting the cat be that way 'round), but I'm open to suggestions. Redirecting might also be a plan.  Alai 01:39, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Oops. I mis-named a new category as the parent permcat; should I get it changed before we do this? Her Pegship  (tis herself)  20:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Do we necessarily want a perm-parent of this sort at all? There's significant resistance to "arbitrary intersection categories" in the permcats (a bullet we've long since bitten pretty hard for stubs, since we have more specific goals on the size front), so we should consider this on its merits, aside from the stub cat.  Alai 21:56, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It does seem like a pretty natural type to have (and to expect to be viable); I'll certainly support it, if the numbers pan out (or an upmerged template if not).  Alai 03:29, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
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subtypes
These are oversized again; I don't see any new stub by-topic categories that would work. Two courses of action suggest themselves: firstly, we could split out the, which are actually the majority of them;  secondly, we could split by decade. Alai 02:11, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Support documentary-film-stub. Her Pegship  (tis herself) 04:57, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
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The recently created template as reached 62 articles. Propose speedy creation of category.Waacstats 13:38, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
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European football biography stubs
I believe this category has passed the critical mass. UEFA has 53 national associations, we have categories for 39 and 4 upmerged templates, leaving 10 'missing' templates. Propose the creation of these templates nb faroes-footy-bio-stub has already been passed for creation but added here for completeness.Waacstats 13:38, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Albania-footy-bio-stub
 * Andorra-footy-bio-stub
 * Armenia-footy-bio-stub
 * Azerbaijan-footy-bio-stub
 * Faroes-footy-bio-stub
 * Liechtenstein-footy-bio-stub
 * Luxembourg-footy-bio-stub
 * Malta-footy-bio-stub
 * Moldova-footy-bio-stub
 * SanMarino-footy-bio-stub
 * I think you could speedy these, on the 'established pattern' clause. Definitely support completing the set.  Alai 17:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
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Manitoba-road-stub, upmerged to Category:Canada road stubs, is now in use on 63 articles. Requesting a standalone category per criterion S1. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 04:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy as such. Alai 05:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
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Japanese railway stations
I created a few more templates for Japanese railway stations, which are sorted into prefectures. The following two have enough to justify their own category. Neier 12:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Aichi-rail-station-stub/ – (>60 if split from and )
 * Osaka-rail-station-stub/ – (>70 if split from and )


 * Support, suggest speedying. On a side note, we should probably rename the -geo- categories (adding "Prefecture" to each).  Alai 12:44, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
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New plant stubs
I propose the following new plant-stub subcategories and stubs. --EncycloPetey 00:07, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Under
 *  - Santalales-stub, includes about 30% of current general plant-stub
 * Under
 *  - cactus-stub
 * Under
 *  - Araceae-stub, for one of the largest plant families (3000 species)
 *  - Anthurium-stub, with about 170 existing stubs for this genus
 *  - Pandanales-stub, with about 100 current stubs for a group with about 1000 species.
 *  - Zingiberales-stub, with about 100 current stubs for a group with over 2000 species.


 * Sound like excellent ideas to me. Given the uncontroversial nature of the large recent batches of taxon-based splits, I'd say this is probably speediable on pattern and precedent.  Alai 01:07, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
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S1 speedy as upmerged template has over 60 articles. Waacstats 10:28, 5 September 2007 (UTC) Sped.Waacstats 20:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Super-strong speedy support, with a strawberry on top. Alai 15:58, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds simply superb. Support seconded :). Grutness...wha?  01:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
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Illinois-railstation-stub is now used on 72 articles. Request speedy creation of the category. —CComMack (t–c) 05:40, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Go for it. Alai 05:44, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Sped. —CComMack (t–c) 00:50, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
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subtypes: DoB, or party?
Oversized. Two obvious ways to split this: by DoB yields no decades over 60, but we could certainly split into 19thC and 20thC births;  by party suggests itself, though the party cats are new, and seem to be in little use at present. Alai 00:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hm. I'm in two minds about this - we've split by party elsewhere, but the creation/re-creation of parties and waka-jumping mean the possibility for multistubbing, whereas it's perhaps more likely that a political historian might be more guided by era (and most people don't have more than one date of birth :) Grutness...wha?  01:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Our constitutional GodKing being one exception, though even he's been pinned down to a year. And given that only centuries are currently over threshold...  Alai 01:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * For what it is worth, jumping the fence isn't that common in Scandinavian politics. On the other hand, Norway did see the emergence of several new parties over the century (same with the rest of Scandinavia). If split by party, please make sure to use names indicating both country and party name, as identical party names are/were used in both Norway and Denmark, e.g. Venstre (DK) / Venstre (N), Højre (DK) / Høyre (N), Fremskridtspartiet (DK) / Fremskrittspartiet (N), Kristelig Folkeparti (DK) / Kristelig Folkeparti (N). Translating party names isn't a great idea either, as this can produce bizzare results, given that some names refer to the positioning a party had more than a century ago. Valentinian T / C 15:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
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2000s-rock-band-stub
I'm trying to research up-and-coming notable bands and it would help to have a stub category to point me (and other researchers) to new bands to research and add to their article. I propose 2000s-rock-band-stub. --In Defense of the Artist 17:47, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * We did just delete this, so this discussion may take on a familiar character... Firstly, what does "2000s" even mean in this context?  We don't categorise by year of formation, years of up-and-comingness, year of breakup, or any other sort of year, so it seems fuzzy and inconvenient.  Secondly, we're already splitting by genre, which though alarmingly fuzzy, seems the more useful axis of split.  Accordingly, oppose.  Alai 20:49, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
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,
'00s drama films oversized, again, and these sub-genres now seems to be more-or-less viable, at 72 and 59, respectively. Probably also some re-sorting required. Alai 05:27, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
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Split of
I propose splitting this by decade of birth. Having done a check on catscan I propose the following (sorry for the long list)
 * fed by tempaltes of the form xxxxs-US-business-bio-stub (approx 50 in total)
 * fed by tempaltes of the form xxxxs-US-business-bio-stub (approx 50 in total)


 * fed by tempaltes of the form 18x0s-US-business-bio-stub (approx 320 in total)
 * fed by tempaltes of the form 18x0s-US-business-bio-stub (approx 320 in total)


 * / 1910s-US-business-bio-stub (69)
 * / 1920s-US-business-bio-stub (93)
 * / 1930s-US-business-bio-stub (89)
 * / 1940s-US-business-bio-stub (73)
 * / 1950s-US-business-bio-stub (69)
 * remainder by upmerged templates of the form 19x0s-US-business-bio-stub (approx 110 in total).
 * remainder by upmerged templates of the form 19x0s-US-business-bio-stub (approx 110 in total).

I realise this is a second axis for splitting this category, but might proove worthwhile in cutting down a category that has remained oversize for sometime. Waacstats 14:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You know, that just might be the very meat-cleaver for this particular Gordian knot. It's worked well enough for other people categories where we have no further meaningful means of splitting, so I reckon it'll serve for these, which as you say have just been getting bigger and bigger.  Alai 01:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hold on though: on the pattern of 1960s-US-hoops-bio-stub /, US-novelist-1900s-stub / , and numerous others, shouldn't that be US-business-bio-1910s-stub / , etc?  Alai 03:56, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
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Lithuania-noble-stub
Manually counted 58 (+/-) Lithuanian nobility related articles. Majority are under Lithuania-bio-stub, few under Lithuania-hist-stub.M.K. 19:24, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice find. Support template now, and category when we have 60 stub articles. Valentinian T / C 20:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
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Luxembourg-noble-stub
Create as upmerged template in the categories and. Counting manually, that's 31 are tagged with Luxembourg-bio-stub, 3 with Luxembourg-politician-stub, and 1 with Sweden-bio-stub, in addition to at least 3 that aren't currently tagged as stubs despite clearly each being one paragraph long. Were I au fait with the nobility, I could probably find 50 or more. Bastin 18:09, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Someone else has gone ahead and created the stub unilaterally: incorrectly, as it happens, but done it nonetheless. Bastin 20:47, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
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, by subdivision
Oversized; by precedent and general obviousness, we should split into  and  (duh). On a side-note, it looks as if the existing cat should be renamed: the article is at Nord-Pas de Calais, which on the face of it seems to be correct. Alai 18:26, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Makes sense to me - support all. Grutness...wha?  23:05, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Trouble is, Nord is only around 100 articles, and Pas-de-Calais is still growing. I'm going to suggest re-splitting the latter by arrondissement -- this will also help deal with the problem with the template -- the region is currently fed by PasdeCalais-geo-stub, which is what the department should be fed by.  05:25, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Specifically, is viable immediately, at 93.  I'm guessing most if not all of the others would be too, but unfortunately most of the newest articles in this cat are seriously lacking in any detail, arrondissement included (out).  Alai 05:39, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If we made upmoerged templates for the arrondissements, how many would we be talking? Grutness...wha?  05:55, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Let me see if I can reduce the number of clicks required for you to acceess that information. :) Alai 06:04, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Ohhh too much hard mousework - can't you just tell me? :p Seven templates sounds pretty reasonable to me, if it helps split things into more manageable sizes. Grutness...wha?  23:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
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Plaid Cymru-stub
Request for [Plaid Cymru] stub as the vast majority of topics, including [politicians] (more then 60 strong), are stub catagories without a more defining stub catagory. For this topic I recommend using the Plaid Cymru logo:



Thank you, Drachenfyre 22:58, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I hate to be a spoil sport, but I see several problems here. 1) We don't normally create stubs with a particular party as scope, and I don't think it will be a good way forward, 2) the logo may not used on stub templates, since the image is used under a fair use clause. Doing so would violate Wikipedia's fair use policy. 3) the proposed template name doesn't conform with the naming guidelines for stub templates, in other words, the space has to go. Valentinian T / C 23:28, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Bore da, Drachenfyre - I agree with Valentinian, individual parties rarely if ever get their own stub types (we don't have Labour stubs or Conservative stubs, both of which are slightly larger parties than PC. Also, as V points out, we can't use a fair-use icon for a stub type. As far as the name of the stub goes, note too that this wouldn't be in accordance to the stub naming guidelines (you'd need PlaidCymru-stub for that). A better solution to cover many of the articles you mention would be the Wales-politician-stub dealt with in the section above. Grutness...wha?  00:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
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WestVirginia-radio-station-stub (deupmerge)
Now has over 80 items; speedy cat? Her Pegship  (tis herself) 19:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Alai 21:58, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Didn't know you spoke Teal'c. :P Her Pegship  (tis herself) 00:04, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Created this one and a few others in the same category and condition. Her Pegship  (tis herself) 02:57, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
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Sports bio splits
I would like to propose the following templates and categories with upmerged templates for the following All appear viable according to catscan though I forgot to note the exact figures. Waacstats 20:46, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Bulgaria-sport-bio-stub /
 * Croatia-sport-bio-stub /
 * Denmark-sport-bio-stub /
 * Estonia-sport-bio-stub /
 * Latvia-sport-bio-stub /
 * Lithuania-sport-bio-stub /
 * Serbia-sport-bio-stub /
 * Slovakia-sport-bio-stub /
 * Slovenia-sport-bio-stub /
 * Turkey-sport-bio-stub /
 * Morocco-sport-bio-stub /
 * Israel-sport-bio-stub /
 * Indonesia-sport-bio-stub /
 * Uzbekistan-sport-bio-stub /
 * Indonesia-footy-bio-stub
 * Uzbekistan-footy-bio-stub
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Speedy foo football bios
three templates have reached 60 articles propose speedy creation of relevent categories. (see proposal below for third country) Waacstats 12:22, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Albania-footy-bio-stub -
 * Belarus-footy-bio-stub -
 * Speedy sounds good. Valentinian T / C 20:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
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foo football bios pt 2
separated this one from above for naming reasons. or - to match other Georgian categories. Waacstats 12:22, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Georgia-footy-bio-stub -
 * I guess we'd better match the other Georgian category names (the solution isn't elegant but it works). Valentinian T / C 20:17, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
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Arachnid subtypes
I hope no-one has a morbid fear of spiders, as is at 799 articles. I accordingly propose: following the names of the corresponding permcats. Alai 06:17, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 333
 * 69
 * Seems good to me, though I think that the question of other sub-categories for, as well as , should be looked in to. Od Mishehu 10:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
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by district
Oversized, and no Regierungsbezirke (former or otherwise) to use for lumping purposes, but as there's relatively big districts, and only 12 of them (plus some urbans, which tend to contribute many fewer stubs, if other German states are anything to go by), I'm betting some of them will be viable now, and others presently. Alai 15:56, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
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In my earlier proposal to split the, I neglected to mention this possibility. Note we already have a (which is probably why I forgot to suggest this one, confusing the two). Alai 17:03, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
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by DoB?
Just a little oversized; for the US analogue, we ending up splitting by date of birth -- should we nip this in the bud by doing the same here? Alai 16:35, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
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, by province
Suddenly massively oversized; obvious plan would be to split into some or all of the nine constituent provinces. Alai 16:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
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Table tennis
I propose the following new stub categories/templates
 * / TableTennis-stub (15+45)
 * TableTennis-bio-stub (45)

Waacstats 15:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Any reason for the uppercase T? I would have guessed at Tabletennis-bio-stub and Tabletennis-stub. Valentinian T / C 07:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I used uppercase T because some templates use camelcase, I have no problems either way.Waacstats 09:40, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * We usually only use the upper case in camelcase when it's a proper noun that takes a capital when written out (so New Zealand becomes NewZealand and Marvel Comics becomes MarvelComics, but table tennis becomes Tabletennis). Grutness...wha?  23:45, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The canonical template should certainly be at tabletennis-stub. I do have the occasional moments of anxiety about how many people who don't hang around the project pages as incessantly as some of us, but do do some stub-sorting will instantly realize that, and that it's not at TableTennis-stub or table-tennis-stub, so I'd be inclined to cut some slack to anyone that wanted those as redirects...  Alai 00:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Do we also need a pingpong-stub redirect? Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
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Handball

 * / Handball-stub(~100)
 * / Handball-bio-stub (total 650)
 * / Germany-handball-bio-stub (105)
 * Romania-handball-bio-stub (59)
 * Hungary-handball-bio-stub (55)
 * Denmark-handball-bio-stub (46)
 * Spain-handball-bio-stub (32)
 * Poland-handball-bio-stub (31)

two other possibilities are Any thoughts. Waacstats 15:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * / Yugoslavia-handball-bio-stub (62)
 * USSR-handball-bio-stubs (46)
 * No problem with the splits by current nation. Not completely sure about the former nations. I've taken the liberty of fixing two typos, btw. Valentinian T / C 07:34, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
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, by district
Oversized. A split by existing kreise, which is how they're currently templatised, would seem to work fine. (Until very recently the districts were organised differently, and before that there were three regions, but let's not worry about that.) Alai 15:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
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is oversized, there seems to be 62 of these. Alai 00:44, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Would it be reduced by sorting some of them to the existing Gaelic-sport-stub (which seems, for some reason, to have been moved to Gaelic-games-stub)? Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:05, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
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By way of a coda to the fish-stub-fest, this would also seem useful, with 88 articles and two existing subcats (the sharks, and the ray family). Will make the remaining fish-stubs less of a taxonomic grab-bag, though the lampreys and hagfish will will be mixed in with the bony fish. Alai 04:00, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
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The majority of the seem to be fungi, but a decent-sized chunk of around 250 are viruses. Suggest splitting out those, pending a more general solution. Alai 19:19, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
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The new Lithuania-noble-stub has already crossed the 60 article mark. Suggest a speedy approval for a category. Valentinian T / C 15:01, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Support speedying, especially given the earlier discussion. Alai 16:38, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Created. Valentinian T / C 07:59, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
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sport bio stubs
I missed one country off of the proposal below following on from precedent. Waacstats 15:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Portugal-sport-bio-stub / / 70
 * Precedent would indeed seem to be extremely clear. Alai 14:52, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy. No concerns here. Valentinian T / C 15:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
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speedy
template has over 60 articles (football rather than soccer is used on template text so I have used it in proposed category title}

P.S when did we start splitting the NorthAm footballers between CentralAm and Caribbean?Waacstats 11:03, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment. No problem with a Salvadoran category, but this tree is named without the usual systematics. Compare: (Main category + the supercategories for North America, Oceania and Central America) vs.  (Europe, Asia, Africa, South America). The per-country categories for Central America and the Caribbean seem to be following the European pattern so the category name indicated above sounds sensible. Oceania is just confusing:  but . Valentinian T / C 14:33, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, Australia isn't in Oceania as far as soccer is concerned. These all follow the permcats as far as I know. NZ is one of the few countries that uses soccer as the primary name for the sport, as there is a more prominent code here called football (Rugby Union). Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid at least the Australian one doesn't: it was until recently at, but has since been renamed to .  I suggest we SFR the stub cat to follow suit.  Alai 02:19, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I must admit I wondered about that one - ISTR football in Australia means Aussie Rules. I'd support a name-change if proposed. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  04:01, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
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Mystery-film-stub/, Adventure-film-stub/
Many a time I have created films of the adventure or mystery genre and not seen a stub tag for it and have had to put it as drama or action. mystery films alone have perhaps 300 stubs adventure - clearly far more than even this. Conedy and drama have even developed by decade split -its about time these were made to help people develop article stubs in these areas  ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦       "Talk"? 15:45, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Support mystery-film-stub; since the line between action and adventure is so often undetectable (as Blofeld knows), perhaps action-film-stub could cover both? Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself) 16:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If there's possible issues with, but also possible utility in a distinct "adventure" type, perhaps create upmerged to the existing cat for the time being? Alai 05:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I second Alai's suggestion for an upmerged adventure-film-stub. Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself) 19:01, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
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The Scots are oversized again, and new stubcat du mois looks like those under, which number exactly 60. For scoping standardisation purposes, we probably want to name this as above. Alai 18:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
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reggae-stub /
54 items currently qualify, and I think I can dig up a few more. This would also take on most (if not all) the items in, which is up for deletion (as poorly scoped). Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself) 04:51, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * support for this, and possibly also reggae-musician-stub. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  07:25, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe as an upmerged template; I've only found 30 articles under that show as stub-size. Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself)  18:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
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Splitting Tibetan geo stubs
Tibet currently has about 900 stubs. I am splitting into Lhasa-geo-stub, Nagqu-geo-stub, Nyingchi-geo-stub, Ngari-geo-stub, Qamdo-geo-stub and Xigaze-geo-stub. As most people don't know which region the towns and villages are in so I'll correct from Tibet-geo-stub as I format each article with an infobox etc as I have an indication of which region they are in. To avoid confusion with actual town names and the regions categories are as follows using "Prefecture" to distinguish between the region and town ,,,, and   ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦       "Talk"? 21:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong after-the-fact support. Each prefecture is highly likely to be numerically viable, given that there's only six of them. Alai 21:56, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I know the usual precedure of waiting here but this needed doing particularly as I am currently working extensively on these articles and unlike many have a better knowledge of which regions thse towns and villages and places are in. Unfortunately the Internet has little info on regions in Tibet when actually within China there is far greater available  ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦       "Talk"? 21:59, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
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Lithuania-struct-stub/
By manual counting there are more then 60 related articles, most of them under Lithuania-stub and euro-struct-stub. Request speedy create. M.K. 21:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Surprised am I, but a quick galnce at suggests you could well be right. If there are as many as you say, then a Lithuania-struct-stub seems speediable. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  04:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If there are any doubts, I can provide listed stub articles.M.K. 10:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, as I said, it looks like there are enough. If there's any real doubt, then an upmerged template (linking to and ) could be made, and once it's certain that it is on 60 stubs, a separate  could be made, but given the numbers that appear to be there, I'd say the LB&S stubs category would have enough articles to be made now too. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * A, I see, thanks for clarification. M.K. 23:52, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
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subtypes by state
Parent is oversized, these two are viable, and would take take of that. Alai 20:46, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 100
 * 81
 * I've sped this, partly as I noticed there was outline agreement to split by state at the time of proposing the top-level stub type. Alai 00:59, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
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I've floated the idea of this stub type over at the Riverina WPJ. It looks like a somewhat informal region to me, but the parent is oversized, and this is one of the few regions of any sort with reasonable amount of either infobox use or categorisation. (In other cases I've gone to great pains to have council area templates upmerged to officially-defined area where necessary, but in one such case that was summarily undone by a bunch of Central Coasters on what seemed to be essentially "IDONTLIKEIT" reaons, so what the heck.) Alai 20:40, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
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Caving
Oops. In an effort to get WikiProject Caves going, I was copying over the meta-structure for WikiProject Backpacking, including caving-stub and cave-stub before seeing these instructions. As I don't have the power to delete articles, I can't easily undo this. Please take them out if it's a problem that I've not gone through the process and I'll come back later.Goatchurch 16:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I imagine there might be some objection to cave-stub if that's to be used on the "actual geography"; I'm somewhat agnostic on that myself, but at the least, use it as well as a -geo-stub, not instead of, if you would.  Caving-stub sounds sensibly-scoped:  do you have a guestimate of how many currently-existing stub articles it'd be applicable to?  (Would I be hoping against hope that this might help a little with the ?)  If either is 'iffy' on size, ytou might consider having them both feed into the same stub category, at least pro temps.  Alai 16:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Support Caving-stub, it sounds quite useful and similar in form to things like Climbing-stub. Oppose Cave-stub for the reasons Alai alludes to - any location should primarily get a geo-stub, and it would make more sense simply to double-stub caves with their actual location and caving-stub (e.g., Nettlebed Cave would get Tasman-geo-stub and caving-stub). Though spelunking editors are likely to know details about a specific cave, locals are likely to know at least as much, so it's important not to take these articles out of their specific regional stub types. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:04, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As I thought: you'll have to get 801 caving-stubs, of which at least 60 are actual caves, before Grutness will consider a cave-stub, and even then heavy sedation, hard restraints, and the exhaustion of all other conceivable alternatives may also be required. :)  Alai 01:18, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm that predictable, am I? :) Seriously, though, it makes no sense to remove things from regional geo-stub categories for the reasons I outlined, and double-stubbing caving-stub and the regional geo-stub serves exactly the same purpose. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:52, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As I feared, I'm having to restub cave articles daily at the moment, all of which have had their regional geo-stubs removed. I'm taking this one to SFD - I can't see any reason why the same principle used with climbing-stub can't be used here. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:44, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
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Farming Article Stub
As far as I know, I dont think there is a stub for farming related things. For example I am creating an article on the organisation MASIPAG, a farming company which helps farmers in LEDCs. It is currently a stub, and is for speedy deletion.
 * MASIPAG's thrice-speedied, to be a little more current still. There's  and the  hierarchy.  However, I don't think the lack of an appropriate stub tag is why it keeps being deleted, so be very sure you're appropriately addressing the right concerns before you (re-re-)re-create it.  Alai 17:08, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * We already have farm-stub for farming. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:57, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Oops - correction - that currently redirects to agriculture-stub. It might be worth looking to see whether it's worth splitting out. But I agree that that is hardly likely to be the reason for the speedying of an article. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
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revisited
Due to being re-oversized, in what's been alarmingly short order. Looking at the permcatting, there's a good deal more that could be retagged into, but that'll soon be oversized at this rate. Looks to me like we'll either have to re-split by decade -- also not very fruitful, due to huge bulge in the 1910s -- or by genre. Probably starting with, , and/or. Alai 06:54, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment I'd go along with the genre split, and then if they got to big, then split by Short Films. Lugnuts 15:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
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chess
I propose Waacstats 11:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * US-chessplayer-stub / (62 artcles)
 * Russia-chessplayer-stub (45 articles)
 * I was surprised that the template of the parent's at chessplayer-stub; given the category name and scope, and the general pattern, shouldn't it be US-chess-bio-stub?  I'm going to suggest a redirect-keeping move to that name.  For the U.S. cat, should be "chess", not "Chess".  That aside, support.  Alai 17:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Alai's right, the name of the parent is a little strange - perhaps we should look at renaming that first (though there are unlikely to be many articles on chess coaches and manager, there may be a few on chess writers). Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:37, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll happily change the proposal to foo-chess-bio-stub. In actual fact Chess-bio-stub exists as a redirect, do we need to go to SFD to revert the redirect. Both were mentioned at the proposal with a certain Grutness opting for chessplayer-stub! Waacstats 07:55, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think a redirect-preserving move can go though as a "there is more rejoicing in heaven" speedy. :) Alai 18:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Sigh. So many stubs - so little memory :) Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  22:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
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Gecko-stub/
has currently over 600 articles. According to the stubs which start with the letter A, about 20-25% of them are about geckoes, which would give a reasonable starting population size. Od Mishehu 11:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Support. This one seems pretty clear as a usefully distinct scope, and the permcat could certainly grow considerably further.  (Certainly it's easily viable:  I db-dump count 172.)  Alai 02:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
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Further Splitting the Cephalopod Stubs
I propose that we split the Category:Cephalopod stubs into two futher divisions because of how many articles there are that are either Squid or Octopi. Any one object to me creating squid-stub and octopus-stub? Abyssal leviathin 21:41, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Not urgently required by any means, but logical enough. I can confirm that  looks numerically viable, though  looks potentially small at aboit 50.  Suggest a squid-stub template upmerged to  until those pass 60, just to be on the safe side.  Alai 21:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * What do you mean "suggest," isn't that what this page is for or is their an additional procedural requirement before creating the category? Abyssal leviathin 01:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I mean I am suggesting that. This is the page for dealing with All That Stuff, I'd just like some assurance on size, before a non-oversized stub type is split into undersized sub-cats.  Alai 04:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
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Poland-scientist-stub
Catscan shows over 250 articles under 2k words in Category:Polish historians. This should be a subcat of Scientist-stub and Poland-bio-stub, equivalent to UK-scientist-stub.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:32, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Presumably that's in Cat:Polish scientists :) If so, then support botht his and the historians one below. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  06:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
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Poland-historian-stub
Catscan shows over 70 articles under 2k words in Category:Polish historians. This should be a subcat of historian-stub and Poland-bio-stub, equivalent to US-historian-stub.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
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Japan-law-stub and India-law-stub
This would add new daughter categories to Category:Japanese law and Category:Indian law (both of which have sufficient pages to fit in these new stub categories), as well as helping to clean up Category:Law stubs which continually needs to be pruned to keep from getting too large. We already have India-law-bio-stub. This would be a big help to WikiProject Law. --Eastlaw 01:08, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Certainly templates seem like a good idea, but possibly upmerged unless there are large numbers of stubs - how many stubs do you think could currently take these templates? Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:16, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I would say 20-30 articles each (minimum)...I'm not sure if you consider that sufficient. New articles may be created in the future for these categories, so I would understand if you wish to hold off on creating them.  --Eastlaw 01:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The usual threshold for new categories is 60 existing stubs. Perhaps upmerged templates for now - that way it's easier to monitor when categories would have enough articles. If we find there are already 60, it would be easy to speedy the category creation. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  02:38, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * We certainly do need some sort of plan to deal with, which has been oversized for some time. OTOH, these do look possibly a little small, if permcatting of the existing law-stubs is anything to go by.  What about upmerging to a "regional" container category (to wit, Asia)?  Alai 03:27, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
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subtypes
Oversized, but not instantly obviously how to subdivide. I'm open to suggestions. Alai 18:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * How about by component:, , , etc? Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself) 18:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I like the idea for data layout as it is not overwhelming to reader. Apageor2 13:05, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I was going to suggest a ... but I was a little nonplussed to find that that already exists!  That should logically be a subcat of the hardware type, and I think existing double-stubbing eliminating, which together with some re-sorting should probably deal with the parent (at least as regards bashing it somewhat down below 800, which is as much as I'm hoping for the moment).  Alai 21:32, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
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subtypes
Believe it or not, these are poking onto their firth page now. The following look to be viable: Or alternatively, we could try to do it by decade (don't immediately have numbers on that). Alai 06:38, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 122
 * 106
 * 106
 * 100
 * Support Good idea for split. The only problem I can see is that the New York Yankees used to be called the Baltimore Orieles as well, but using current franchise names is how the permcats are sorted so I don't see any reason to do different. Waacstats 07:23, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Also doesn't seem to be a problem we'll have for a while, since there's only 12 Yankee season stubs at the moment. OTOH, bearing in mind how fast the others have grown...  Alai 15:45, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
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Dendropsophus-stub/
In, there are currently almost 800 articles. Of these, 83 clearly belong to the genus Dendropsophus. I propose making this a seperate stub category. Od Mishehu 12:01, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Said almost-800 stubs represent essentially the whole family, having been bot-created (and bot-stub-sorted) in batch. If anything, it ought to shrink from here (if any of them actually do get expanded, or deleted as pointlessly obscure) so I wouldn't regard it as a case that's in any way urgent to re-split.  OTOH, if there's a posse of Dendropsophus specialists out there that this would be helpful to...  Alai 19:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
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libertarianism-stub /
For all subjects or persons related to libertarianism, and analogous to, , and. CatScan gives 115 articles in shorter than 1500 bytes (of whom, 55 are libertarians). Bastin 23:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That's a bit sketchy as a size count, as the length threshold you're using is about triple what I'd consider "safe". Any idea how many are actually already tagged as stubs?  OTOH, regardless of size, I strongly suspect at least an upmerged template would make a lot of sense.  (I'm somewhat amazed there's no wikiproject, and a lot more stubs...  Perhaps because it'd be redundant, and they're all post-stubs by now?)  Alai 23:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm slightly negative towards this one, but that feeling is based solely of having seen several American editors trying to add the "Libertarian" tag to a lot of European material solely concerning Liberalism. Valentinian T / C 07:31, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In the U.S. context though, liberal has come to be seen as a replacement for social democrat, so it's not surprising that European liberalism looks more like libertarianism than anything else to persons with a purely North American POV, since libertarianism is little more than a variant of classical liberalism. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines 20:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Whereas in most of the rest of the world, it means quite the opposite. It's a bit like the difference in the word "democratic" between the US and the Korean people's Democratic Republic, for instance - trying to group those different meanings into one stub type is a stretch. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The permcat structure is a bit of a mess (and so perhaps isn't the best guide), with as both a supercat of, and a subcat of the extraordinarily-named  (which looks like CFD/CFR-fodder to me).  But some sort of fairly close relationship is fairly clear.  Perhaps we could smoosh them together as , fed from distinctly-worded templates?  Alai 17:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Libertarianism is not a sub-strand of classical liberalism, as the former encompasses both minarchism (of which classical liberalism is an example) and anarchism.
 * is named after the similarly titled . Even as the creator of that category, I'm not happy with the name, but I assumed it as a precedent. Bastin 22:21, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm aware of that argument, but the permcat structure doesn't exactly support it, and I'm pretty sure that there would be less than general agreement among editors to that effect. Hence my suggestion to explicitly include both, to avoid the whole circularity and involution.  I'd equally argue in favour of the latter category:  so far as I know, it doesn't have genres, either.  What to rename them to, I dunno.  Alai 23:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
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colubrid-stub/
is getting too big, and a lot of the articles there seem to be about Colubrid snakes. Od Mishehu 15:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Not that big, only 500-odd. If this is to be split, I'd prefer to avoid the Colubridae family as being strongly indicated to be polyphyletic.  Alai 19:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As are lizards, dinosaurs and order Artiodactyla, each of which has their own stub type. Od Mishehu 21:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * None of which are "dumping grounds", however. The first is reasonable by way of the utility of common names, the other two are only polyphyletic with respect to a single sub-taxon, which is therefore just a matter of sub-categorisation.  Even besides which, we'd be left with "other stuff exists" vs. "not needed", "extremely broad", and "other splits are possible instead".  Alai 23:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * On a related subject, if (and it's a big if) is getting too big, then so is  - also in the 500-600 region. Something like a sauropod-stub, or at the very list saurischia-stub and ornithschia-stub, may well be looming on the horizon. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * While those are somewhat-related taxons, and indeed they're extremely similar in size, this sounds to me like it's in imminent danger of either turning into a discussion on whether to split all 430+ stub categories with 530-ish articles and up, or of how to organise taxon-based stub types in general. I'd recommend splitting either (or both) of those out into separate discussions, either on this page or otherwise.  Alai 00:51, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
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Crustacean stubs
[moved from talk page - Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself) 22:14, 26 September 2007 (UTC)] Category:Crustacean stubs is getting rather large at over 600 articles, and I have decided to create new stub templates for crustaceans and split the category. Here are the previews for the proposed templates:

Template:Crustacean-stub ''This crustacean-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by [ expanding it]''.

Template:Copepod-stub ''This copepod-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by [ expanding it]''.

Template:Amphipoda-stub ''This amphipoda article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by [ expanding it]''.

See User talk:Stemonitis for more information. --Crustaceanguy 21:36, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Crustacean sub-stubs were proposed and approved back in August, to wit:
 * Would these be of any use? I have taken the liberty of editing the amphipoda entry to reflect the previously approved wording. Cheers, Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself) 22:22, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - please don't just copy templates down here like that - it puts this page into various stub categories where it doesn't belong! I've just removed this page from . As Peg says, other, related categories have already been approved - it might be more sensible to start with them first and see whether further splits are needed after that's done. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Would these be of any use? I have taken the liberty of editing the amphipoda entry to reflect the previously approved wording. Cheers, Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself) 22:22, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - please don't just copy templates down here like that - it puts this page into various stub categories where it doesn't belong! I've just removed this page from . As Peg says, other, related categories have already been approved - it might be more sensible to start with them first and see whether further splits are needed after that's done. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Would these be of any use? I have taken the liberty of editing the amphipoda entry to reflect the previously approved wording. Cheers, Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself) 22:22, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - please don't just copy templates down here like that - it puts this page into various stub categories where it doesn't belong! I've just removed this page from . As Peg says, other, related categories have already been approved - it might be more sensible to start with them first and see whether further splits are needed after that's done. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The copepods would certainly be viable (171 articles at last db dump). IIRC I omitted Copepoda as it's an infraorder, and I've been by and large favouring splits at the "major" taxons (typically orders and families).  But if people would find that one especially useful...  Alai 02:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
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A geo-speedy, but with naming issues
Madeira-geo-stub has reached 60 articles, but I note that the parent category is for (to distinguiosh from Madeira, the largest island in the group). That means the category be at. BUT, the stub type is for the autonomous region of Madeira, and the main article is also at Madeira. I'm taking the permcat to CFD... the stubcat may need to wait until that's dealt with. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you've made a compelling argument both for a) creation and un-upmerging, and b) not speedying. (Unless you want to end up doing a speedying creation followed by a slow rename, of course...)  Alai 02:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I created per the inconclusive discussion at cfd; does that help at all? Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself)  15:52, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Support, or , whichever your Grutness can live with. Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself) 21:36, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
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Lipids, carbs
The type just gets bigger and bigger;  it looks like  and  are now viable, but will only help a bit. Anyone else have any bright ideas? Alai 20:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
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Canadian politician templates (upmerged)
The Canadian material is being split off by province but a few first-level entities are still missing. All names are chosen to match with the -geo templates:


 * NorthwestTerritories-politician-stub
 * Nunavut-politician-stub
 * Yukon-politician-stub

I'm not sure how big the current need is for the latter two, but somebody seems to be working systematically through the NWT material, and we might as well create all three in one go. Upmerged templates, categories when 60. Valentinian T / C 21:21, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Makes a lot of sense. BTW, there seems to be quite a lot of politicians, politics-related bios, activists, etc, in the Canada-bio-stubs, if someone wants to apply the proverbial fine-toothed comb.  Alai 23:00, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
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by region
Parent oversized, continental cats to be populated from country templates. Alai 05:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 97
 * 94
 * 91
 * 86
 * 78
 * 73
 * 62
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-- characters, etc.
Oversized again, possible hand-sorting to 'titles' might help a little. Most of these, however, are characters. We could certainly populate a -- in fact, there'd be more than 600, immediately. Beyond that, there's permcats for supervillains, superheroes, supporting characters, mutants, characters with superhuman strength, deities and immortals, each of which would be viable as a stub type. Alai 04:20, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The character one sounds a definite starter. As to the subtypes like supervillains, though, ISTR there was a mass deletion of permcats of that type recently. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  04:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Less recently than the last time I brought up this up, though, so those ones don't seem to be going anyplace in any great hurry. Alai 12:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a stub type for supervillains. Support this one to start sorting the rest. Her Pegship <small style="color:green;"> (tis herself) 22:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
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The last of the "nation-level" geo-stubs
Hi all. We now, fianlly, have geo-stubs at the national level or below to cover just about everywhere on the planet, even if only (in about a dozen cases) as redirects to other templates. There are just six areas left, mainly for uninhabited/uninhabitable lumps of rock. The question is - what to do with these last areas? Do they get their own redirects or templates, upmerged into more obvious categories, or do we ignore them and pray that they never get stubs?

The six nominees remaining places are:
 * 1) U.S. Unincorporated Territories in the Pacific. A group of uninhabited islands currently using both US-geo-stub and Oceania-geo-stub.
 * Suggested solution? US-Pacific-geo-stub, upmerged to the two current categories. Another possible option would be to amalgamate it with the Navassa Island (see below) as a stub for all the United States Minor Outlying Islands (US-unincorporated-geo-stub?), though this might cause category problems.
 * 1) Navassa Island. A lump of rock in the Caribbean, which is a US unincorporated territory. Currently uses US-geo-stub and Caribbean-geo-stub.
 * Suggested solution? NavassaIsland-geo-stub, upmerged to the two current categories. Another possible option would be to amalgamate it with the US Pacific unincorporated territories (see below) as a stub for all the United States Minor Outlying Islands (US-unincorporated-geo-stub?), though this might cause category problems.
 * 1) French Southern and Antarctic Territories. Mainly just Kerguelen plus a handful of rocks. Currently uses Outremer-geo-stub.
 * Suggested solution? Its own template, feeding into the Subantarctic Islands and French Non-Metropolitan categories. The two problems are possible ungainly template names, and the likelihood that it will be used for claims currently in abeyance due to the Antarctic treaty (other similar areas all used antarctica-geo-stub).
 * 1) Scattered islands in the Indian Ocean. A handful of French uninhabited rocks. Currently uses Outremer-geo-stub.
 * Suggested solution? Its own template, feeding into theFrench Non-Metropolitan category. The main problem here is the ungainly template name.
 * 1) Plazas de soberanía. Two Spanish cities on the Moroccan coast, plus a handful of rocks in the Mediterranean. Currently uses Spain-geo-stub and AfricaN-geo-stub.
 * Suggested solution? Its own template, possibly a redirect to Spain-geo-stub. Potential problems? This would remove any stubs from North Africa, and the offshore rocks are disputed with Morocco.
 * 1) Western Sahara. Currently uses AfricaN-geo-stub and WesternSahara-stub.
 * Suggested solution? Its own template would be useful, as this is the only area of mainland Africa which doesn't have its own template, and no country-level template is really currently suitable. But this is, of course, a disputed territory, albeit one recognised as sovereign by several countries.

Thoughts and suggestions are welcome for all of these. Currently only three of them actually have any stubs that I know of, but in the case of Western Sahara there are a couple of dozen - more than enough for an upmerged template to be a sensible idea. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  06:14, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I realize that trying to make sense of the terms applied to U.S. territories takes effort for the uninitiated, but US-unincorporated-geo-stub isn't a good idea for waht yuo are looking for. The unincorporated territories include not only most of those uninhabited rocks in the Pacific and Caribbean but also Guam, the Northern Marianas, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands.  However, it wouldn't include Palmyra Atoll which while uninhabited, and not part of the fifty States or D.C. is considered incorporated territory.
 * Going with the current permcats would give us US-insular-geo-stub / as one possibility, as the insular areas include everything not part of the fifty States or D.C.  Another possibility would be US-Oceania-geo-stub and US-Caribbean-geo-stub.  Those would match the stub categories nicely, if not the permacats.  A third if you don't want the geo stubs for the inhabited territories to intersect with the new template would be to use US-unihabited-geo-stub and have it point to  for now.  While Navassa Island is in the Caribbean, neither it nor the other articles in  are stubs, and as an uninhabited location, it is unlikely to obtain any stubs. Besides, given the territorial dispute with Haiti, we can always mark any such stubs with Haiti-geo-stub as well. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred">Caer’s whines  19:34, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Ooookay. So here's what I propose to make, unless there are any objections: and (deep breath)
 * US-minorisland-stub for the United States Minor Outlying Islands, doublestubbing with Oceania or Caribbean where necessary. It's unlikely there'll be more than a handful of stubs in total, but even uninhabited places like Navassa have capes and headlands that might get articles;
 * France-AustraleAntarctique-geo-stub for the French Southern and Antarctic Territories;
 * France-IndianOcean-stub for the Scattered islands in the Indian Ocean;
 * Plazadesoberanía-geo-stub for the Plazas de soberanía;
 * WesternSahara-geo-stub.

I'm not at all happy with the names, though - any better suggestions would be more than welcome. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  03:54, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
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Politics of Wales-stub
Request for a Politics of Wales stub as the vast majority of articals of [Welsh politicians, political topics, political parties, political party topics] (including sub categories), are mostly stubs. I stopped counting after a hundred, and that is with Plaid Cymru alone, so estimate that there are more for the other topics in Welsh politics too. I would recommend using the Welsh flag for the image here. Thank you, Drachenfyre 22:58, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Politics stubs aren't divided by sub-national division in other cases. Instead, they are divided into areas, primarily politicians, political parties, elections, and constituencies.  Propose instead:
 * Wales-politician-stub (analogy to Scotland-politician-stub), feeding into.
 * Wales-constituency-stub (analogy to Scotland-constituency-stub), upmerged into.
 * That sorts out the vast majority of stubs related to Welsh politics. Bastin 23:52, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll second Bastin's suggestion. Valentinian T / C 20:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
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Psychoanalysts, Psychiatrists
There is a stub for Psychologists psychologist-stub I would like to differentiate psychoanalysts-stub and psychiatrists-stub. There are already many stub articles in Category:Psychiatrists by nationality and Category:Psychoanalysts that could be properly categorized with the addition of these two stubs.Tstrobaugh 18:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds a reasonable idea, if there are enough stubs - any idea of the numbers? BTW, the names of the templates shouldn't be plurals - psychoanalyst-stub and psychiatrist-stub would be the correct forms. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:09, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In Category:Psychiatrists by nationality there would be hundreds and the stub would also be available for future use. I'm a member of WikiProject Psychology and I intend to add more psychoanalysts particularly in Object relations theory. I just added James F. Masterson and will add at least five more soon. But currently in Category:Psychoanalysts I would say there are only about 10 that could be categorized as stubs. Just for clarification, Psychiatrists are MD's and Psychologists are PHd's whereas Psychoanalysts can come from either field.Tstrobaugh 14:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I get the distinction, but the question is if there's rather few of them at present, whether splitting them does more harm than good for their prospects of expansion. If you create an upmerged template (only), it'll allow tagging of them now (and as they're created), without splitting them off to languish in a teeny stub category -- but the latter can readily be created once there's something-like-60.  Alai 15:57, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Support an upmerged template (singular form, as G. says) for clarity at worst, a full-scale separate type if there's the numbers. Alai 01:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
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subtypes
Parent's at exactly 800; I might start with just one of the above, given the likely overlap. Anyone have a favourite? Alai 22:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 89
 * 72
 * 61
 * At the risk of poking a sore point, this comes close on talking of nixing the 2000s rock band stub that's been proposed... we need to sort out some overall rationale for this sort of thing, by the looks of it. I realise the case is a little different, given the numbers of stubs, but still... Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  09:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * How about "needed, aligned to permcats and existing splits, and tolerably well-defined", as implied in my points on that proposal? Alai 13:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
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