Wikipedia:Wiki Guides/OfficeHours201104150000

[2011-04-14 20:00:10] -->| Philippe (~Philippe@wikimedia/Philippe) has joined #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 20:00:26]  Welcome Philippe [2011-04-14 20:00:36]  Hey Jamesofur .... i've pinged you twice in IM :) [2011-04-14 20:00:43]  I'm on time! [2011-04-14 20:00:49]  ehy Peter-C :) [2011-04-14 20:00:51]  (even though normally I am too cool to be on time) [2011-04-14 20:00:51]  hey :) [2011-04-14 20:00:56]  sorry about that I was getting tea :) [2011-04-14 20:01:19] |<-- GerardM- has left freenode (Remote host closed the connection) [2011-04-14 20:01:25] * Peter-C tips his hat off to Jamesofur and Philippe [2011-04-14 20:01:41]  Evening Peter :) [2011-04-14 20:01:51]  i'm going to delay for a few minutes while we wait on a couple of folks from Sue's office hours [2011-04-14 20:01:57]  but failing that, we'll move forward shortly [2011-04-14 20:02:50]  excellent, I have time to grab a drink [2011-04-14 20:02:51]  This also gives me a chance to do something important.... resize pictures of my dog's new best friend [2011-04-14 20:02:56] * Ironholds flees to the fridge [2011-04-14 20:03:05] -->| yukon (~yukon@wikimedia/mono) has joined #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 20:03:56] -->| MER-C (~chatzilla@wikipedia/MER-C) has joined #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 20:04:07]  guide43 waits, patiently [2011-04-14 20:04:09]  Hey yukon, MER-C :) [2011-04-14 20:04:14]  morning [2011-04-14 20:04:18]  hi Guide43 :) [2011-04-14 20:04:27] <Guide43> hey phillpe [2011-04-14 20:04:41] <Jamesofur> howdy yukon and MER-C [2011-04-14 20:04:43] <Peter-C> Philippe - Is your dog dating? [2011-04-14 20:04:48] <Jamesofur> WAH [2011-04-14 20:04:53] <Philippe> Nope, my dog got a dog :) [2011-04-14 20:05:02] <MER-C> ho hum [2011-04-14 20:05:04] <Peter-C> Ah [2011-04-14 20:05:11] <Philippe> Jamesofur: what say we get started? [2011-04-14 20:05:25] <Jamesofur> I think that's good if people want to filter in they can we'll still have logs posted [2011-04-14 20:05:27] <Peter-C> Not until we see some dog photos ;) [2011-04-14 20:05:38] <Philippe> Peter-C: http://philippewiki.com [2011-04-14 20:05:43] <Philippe> they're the big, unresized ones :) [2011-04-14 20:06:23] <Philippe> So.... I want to start by thanking everyone for being here. [2011-04-14 20:06:46] <Philippe> It's really great to see you... and also to thank you for the really incredible work with the WikiGuide program (we've standardized on that spelling, btw.... Camelcase) [2011-04-14 20:07:46] <Philippe> I've got a couple of neat things to show you, and then we'll talk about how to move forward, and also have a moment to talk about something I hope you'll like... which I havent told Jamesofur about yet... which is that I got budget approval to get some free Wikipedia logo merchandise for prizes. [2011-04-14 20:07:58] <Jamesofur> YAY! [2011-04-14 20:08:01] bzzt..probably pretty off topic here, but -- any wiki lovers here, you're invited to hack at http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiSong -- defining wiki and how it is good. [2011-04-14 20:08:23] -->| zxtytgyh (~xdcfhj@bas7-montrealak-1128544590.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 20:08:27] <Peter-C> Yay! FREE! :D [2011-04-14 20:08:35] <Guide43> commercial? [2011-04-14 20:08:37] <Jamesofur> Hi zxtytgyh [2011-04-14 20:08:46] <Philippe> The first thing that I want to say is that the WikiGuides program works. [2011-04-14 20:08:56] <Peter-C> Huzzah! [2011-04-14 20:08:59] <Philippe> We have empirical data that shows it now. We know, for instance... [2011-04-14 20:09:14] <Philippe> 1) Users who were guided are making more edits to mainspace than the control [2011-04-14 20:09:26] <Philippe> 2)  Users who were guided are making FEWER edits to User and Usertalk space than the control [2011-04-14 20:09:38] <Philippe> and we suspect, but can't yet empirically prove that they're sticking around longer too. [2011-04-14 20:09:55] -->| Prodego (Prodego@wikipedia/Prodego) has joined #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 20:09:58] <Philippe> So, our hypothesis is that these users are more quickly becoming acclimated parts of our community [2011-04-14 20:10:02] =-= zxtytgyh is now known as derp [2011-04-14 20:10:05] <Philippe> Hey Prodego :) [2011-04-14 20:10:09] |<-- derp has left freenode (Changing host) [2011-04-14 20:10:10] -->| derp (~xdcfhj@wikimedia/Zalgo) has joined #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 20:10:14] -->| interior (cf664267@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.102.66.103) has joined #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 20:10:15] <Prodego> hello [2011-04-14 20:10:17] <Philippe> So, the work that you're doing IS working. [2011-04-14 20:10:21] <Philippe> hey interior :) [2011-04-14 20:10:22] <Jamesofur> Hey interior [2011-04-14 20:10:30] my interior is decorated. [2011-04-14 20:10:33] hullo [2011-04-14 20:10:35] * derp waves to Jamesofur [2011-04-14 20:10:39] * Jamesofur waves [2011-04-14 20:10:41] <Peter-C> How many are in the control? [2011-04-14 20:10:45] <Philippe> Now, so that's the good news. Here's the bad news: our burnout rate is pretty high, among Guides, and we're not getting to the new users fast enough. [2011-04-14 20:10:48] <Philippe> Peter-C: half. [2011-04-14 20:11:13] <Peter-C> I mean, how many people make up that half [2011-04-14 20:11:17] <Philippe> Most of you know that we're introducing new users to the guides by about day 3 of their wiki existance. [2011-04-14 20:11:21] <Philippe> Peter-C: A few thousand [2011-04-14 20:11:29] <Philippe> Jamesofur: can you get a better number? [2011-04-14 20:11:39] <Philippe> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikiguides_Cohort_1_by_study_day.png [2011-04-14 20:11:56] <Philippe> That file will show you the drop off rate of new users by Day 3 of their existance, which is listed as day 0 there [2011-04-14 20:12:06] <Philippe> Rather, not listed... sorry [2011-04-14 20:12:08] <Philippe> it's Day 1. [2011-04-14 20:12:19] <Jamesofur> around 3500 including all cohorts, around half that for the first 2 cohorts combined [2011-04-14 20:12:22] <Philippe> Day 1 of the Guide program, Day 3 of their existence with us [2011-04-14 20:12:41] <Philippe> So you can see from the file to which I linked... that we have to get to them faster. [2011-04-14 20:13:04] <Philippe> We also know that asking you to email the huge numbers we're emailing is killing people. [2011-04-14 20:13:17] <Philippe> And, frankly, we think it's not the most effective use of our valuable resources (you!) [2011-04-14 20:13:31] <--| derp has left #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 20:13:32] <MER-C> yeah, 50 users was way too many [2011-04-14 20:13:42] <ReaperEternal> 90% don't have email function enabled anyway [2011-04-14 20:13:45] <Philippe> But I'm getting ahead of myself. I wrote an agenda, and I'm blowing it away. [2011-04-14 20:13:48] <Philippe> ReaperEternal: that's incorrect. [2011-04-14 20:13:51] agree on 50 too much [2011-04-14 20:13:52] <Philippe> About 65% do. [2011-04-14 20:14:05] <Jamesofur> (which surprised us when we got that number) [2011-04-14 20:14:19] <Philippe> The first thing I wanted to do was ask James to lead us in a discussion of what went well and poorly so far, and you've started that, so I'm going to shut up [2011-04-14 20:14:27] <ReaperEternal> ok [2011-04-14 20:14:39] <Philippe> Jamesofur: it's all you. [2011-04-14 20:14:49] <Peter-C> Hopefully there is more good than bad [2011-04-14 20:15:00] <Philippe> :) [2011-04-14 20:15:14] <Philippe> That's kind of what we want to know from you, Peter-C :) [2011-04-14 20:15:19] <Jamesofur> Aye. I think most of you guys have been in this for at least one cycle (if not all 3) so you've seen some of it. The hardest part was that it was incredibly front loaded [2011-04-14 20:15:37] <Jamesofur> and we know we got things abut email but we want to know what YOU think [2011-04-14 20:15:38] =-= yukon is now known as Mono [2011-04-14 20:15:50] <Jamesofur> Peter-C since you spoke up :) What did you like/not like :) [2011-04-14 20:15:58] <Philippe> I've heard that 50 is too many. That was my call, by the way, and I take responsibility for it. [2011-04-14 20:16:04] <Philippe> Sorry :) [2011-04-14 20:16:15] <Peter-C> Hmm [2011-04-14 20:16:24] <Jamesofur> we actually seriously thought about STARTING with 50 ;) [2011-04-14 20:16:31] <Peter-C> I like that I get to interact with new people [2011-04-14 20:16:40] <Peter-C> Help mold them [2011-04-14 20:16:49] <Philippe> Yay for that, Peter-C [2011-04-14 20:17:00] <Peter-C> But I HATE the fact I email a lot people and only get a handful of replies [2011-04-14 20:17:05] * Philippe nods [2011-04-14 20:17:09] <Guide43> 50 was fine as most were and remain inactive [2011-04-14 20:17:52] <Jamesofur> I think the problem isn't that it's 50 you have to deal with later it's that you have to sit down and reach out to 50 (and then don't get many responses) am I right? [2011-04-14 20:18:12] <Peter-C> yes [2011-04-14 20:18:24] <Guide43> 1 rersponse out of 50 demoralizing YEs [2011-04-14 20:18:28] <Peter-C> ^ [2011-04-14 20:18:50] <Jamesofur> yeah, I can totally get that :( [2011-04-14 20:18:51] <Philippe> Guide43: Yeah. I hear that.  :( [2011-04-14 20:19:26] <Peter-C> How about a "I WILL GUIDE YOU OR I WILL GET YOU BLOCKED" route with emails? [2011-04-14 20:19:36] <Peter-C> Or some other way to convince people to write back [2011-04-14 20:19:37] <Philippe> Peter-C: The "stick" versus the "carrot"? [2011-04-14 20:19:41] <Jamesofur> Did you feel you were getting something done? (that you WERE helping to mold them etc?) [2011-04-14 20:19:46] <Philippe> Nothing says "welcome" like a block threat by email :P [2011-04-14 20:19:50] <Guide43> Incentive via threats? [2011-04-14 20:20:00] <Philippe> Ah, good question, Jamesofur [2011-04-14 20:20:06] <Peter-C> Nope [2011-04-14 20:20:14] <Peter-C> Not at all [2011-04-14 20:20:28] <Peter-C> I would rather just adopt people who want it [2011-04-14 20:20:46] <Philippe> Yeah, the problem with that is that most people dont ask... they just leave. [2011-04-14 20:20:49] <Guide43> i didnt mind really....hopeful that the next group is better [2011-04-14 20:20:53] <Jamesofur> how many of them do you think were editing when you reached out to them? (weren't already gone) [2011-04-14 20:21:06] <Peter-C> Not many [2011-04-14 20:21:09] <MER-C> less than 10% [2011-04-14 20:21:13] <Peter-C> ^ [2011-04-14 20:21:17] <Ironholds> surely one of the answers here is to push for more wikiguides - that'd mean everyone is reaching out to say, 25 each instead of 50 [2011-04-14 20:21:25] <Guide43> yea...10% or less [2011-04-14 20:21:28] <ReaperEternal> I checked, and only 2 editors have edited since I welcomed them [2011-04-14 20:21:32] <ReaperEternal> (in my group) [2011-04-14 20:21:37] <Philippe> ReaperEternal: That's about right, I think. [2011-04-14 20:21:53] <ReaperEternal> And their edits were not in relation to my welcomes [2011-04-14 20:21:59] <ReaperEternal> at least 3 are indefblocked :P [2011-04-14 20:22:02] <Guide43> same...1 active editopr from 3 wavwes [2011-04-14 20:22:18] <Jamesofur> These sound like very close to what we were thinking. It's really nice to hear that we were thinking along the right lines :) [2011-04-14 20:22:18] I spend quite a bit of time looking at the user's edits and trying to customize messages, which makes it doubly annoying when you get no responses - i'm wondering if that's an effective use of time, or if bolierplates would be better [2011-04-14 20:22:25] <Jamesofur> Did anyone else have any other issues as they went along? [2011-04-14 20:22:31] <Philippe> interior, good point [2011-04-14 20:22:46] <Peter-C> Jamesofur - maybe we are all thinking the same thing but it is all equealy wrong :P [2011-04-14 20:22:48] <Jamesofur> Aye, that's a very good point and makes that demoralizing issue even worse [2011-04-14 20:22:54] <ReaperEternal> Maybe we should filter based on username as I got a couple that violated UPOL [2011-04-14 20:22:59] <Guide43> yea...to personalize welcome that is then ignored is a waste [2011-04-14 20:23:03] <Jamesofur> I think you know what makes it feel worse for you :) [2011-04-14 20:23:09] <ReaperEternal> "Team World Vision" [2011-04-14 20:23:14] <Philippe> ReaperEternal: Good point again, and I agree with Guide43 also [2011-04-14 20:23:17] <ReaperEternal> "ENPublishers" [2011-04-14 20:23:41] <Philippe> OK, so it's good to hear that we're thinking about the same concerns you are [2011-04-14 20:23:47] <Philippe> That means we're not off in left field somewhere [2011-04-14 20:24:00] maybe screening for unproductive edits would help [2011-04-14 20:24:08] <Philippe> and Peter-C, you're right that the real danger is that we're all wrong. I don't think so, though, since we have seen a statistically significant response. [2011-04-14 20:24:10] <Guide43> \I Dont Know (third base) [2011-04-14 20:24:13] <Peter-C> We need to give them incentives! [2011-04-14 20:24:16] <ReaperEternal> I only got two VOAs [2011-04-14 20:24:27] <Philippe> Heh, ReaperEternal, you stole my very next theme [2011-04-14 20:24:29] Cookies are insufficient [2011-04-14 20:24:29] <Jamesofur> we want to give both them AND you incentives :0 [2011-04-14 20:24:34] <Peter-C> We should put reasons WHY to edit [2011-04-14 20:24:41] <Peter-C> Such as free knowledge [2011-04-14 20:24:47] <Philippe> I want to talk for just a sec about a study that we just did, and then how to leverage some things [2011-04-14 20:24:53] <Peter-C> Opensourceness [2011-04-14 20:25:00] <ReaperEternal> We should give them things ***TO DO*** [2011-04-14 20:25:01] <Peter-C> and a block if you don't comply! :D [2011-04-14 20:25:11] <Peter-C> Ok [2011-04-14 20:25:19] <ReaperEternal> That was the reason I left for a year...I couldn't find anything to do [2011-04-14 20:25:24] <Philippe> First of all.... [2011-04-14 20:25:31] <Philippe> Some of you heard about this at Sue's office hours. [2011-04-14 20:25:32] <ReaperEternal> ...or maybe that's just me [2011-04-14 20:25:44] <Philippe> Over the last few days we've been studying the edits by new users. [2011-04-14 20:26:01] <Philippe> We rated them on a scale of 1 to 5 (from Vandal to OMG, are you TimStarling?) [2011-04-14 20:26:19] <Philippe> Then we also looked at some of their progression and started to look for patterns. [2011-04-14 20:26:40] <Philippe> The folks from April 12, brand new accounts, actually surprised me. [2011-04-14 20:26:58] <Philippe> About 23% were clear vandalism... much lower than I expected. [2011-04-14 20:26:59] <Philippe> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Edit_pie_chart.jpg [2011-04-14 20:27:21] <Philippe> There was only one really amazing edit, which seems right to us [2011-04-14 20:27:48] <Philippe> But basically, this is telling us that bout 75% of the edits by the sampled group showed some promise. [2011-04-14 20:28:09] <Philippe> So, OK.... that's fine... but how does it compare to the past? [2011-04-14 20:28:11] <Peter-C> could we see this rare amazing edit :P [2011-04-14 20:28:12] |<-- howief has left freenode (Quit: howief) [2011-04-14 20:28:23] <Philippe> We pulled a sample from 2004. (Peter, I'll get it) [2011-04-14 20:28:43] <Philippe> Here's the 2004 sample: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Edit_pie_chart_2004.jpg [2011-04-14 20:28:56] -->| howief (~howiefung@216.38.130.161) has joined #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 20:29:00] <Philippe> obviously, far fewer vandals [2011-04-14 20:29:09] <Philippe> but the story is pretty much the same. [2011-04-14 20:29:58] <Peter-C> So, we have been looking for bad edits too much we forgot to find the good edits? [2011-04-14 20:30:11] <Peter-C> edits/editors [2011-04-14 20:30:24] <Philippe> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barton_decarboxylation&diff=prev&oldid=423446719 [2011-04-14 20:30:30] <Philippe> That's the great edit, Peter-C [2011-04-14 20:30:52] <Philippe> I suppose that's one possibility. I think, also, that we've unwittingly incentivized the vandals. [2011-04-14 20:31:00] <Philippe> it's the Streisand Effect. We're showering them with attention. [2011-04-14 20:31:08] <Peter-C> >_> [2011-04-14 20:31:13] <Philippe> Swarms descend on them and they know they're pulling us off target. [2011-04-14 20:31:14] <Peter-C> (for the edit) [2011-04-14 20:31:25] <Philippe> Sure, but he got the formatting, he wrote well. [2011-04-14 20:31:32] <Philippe> on the whole, it's not perfect, but it's pretty close. [2011-04-14 20:31:50] <Guide43> Hear! Hear! [2011-04-14 20:31:59] <Philippe> So.... here's what I think. [2011-04-14 20:32:02] <Peter-C> Now, this might seem weird, how about Huggle revamped to welcome newbies? [2011-04-14 20:32:16] <Philippe> It becomes our job to find the newbies and form a protective shield around them. [2011-04-14 20:32:29] <Philippe> In the course of this study, we found newbies who did EVERYTHING right.... [2011-04-14 20:32:34] <Philippe> and got multiple warnings. [2011-04-14 20:32:50] <Philippe> That's not to say the people doing NPP are bad... most of them do a great job. But some of them make mistakes too, right? [2011-04-14 20:32:56] <Philippe> So we have to look out for the newbies. [2011-04-14 20:33:17] <Philippe> I saw one guy who added a fact, but didn't know how to source it. So in his edit comment he put "I was there." [2011-04-14 20:33:20] <Guide43> Protect the embyos! [2011-04-14 20:33:24] <Philippe> Well, okay, that doesn't meet the standards [2011-04-14 20:33:26] <Philippe> I get that. [2011-04-14 20:33:36] <Philippe> But it took me literally three seconds to find a source to support what he said. [2011-04-14 20:33:40] <Philippe> And another four to add it. [2011-04-14 20:34:01] <Philippe> That's about as much time as it took the person who added a template to the source and then left him a nastygram. [2011-04-14 20:34:10] <Philippe> Which is a better experience? That's a no-brainer. [2011-04-14 20:34:31] <Peter-C> Well, they need to go through a LOAD of them, they have no time to do it, maybe if NPP software had some sorce finding stuff in it people would have less issues :/ [2011-04-14 20:34:43] <Philippe> Again, I'm not blaming him. [2011-04-14 20:34:50] <Philippe> What I'm saying is, we can get involved and help. [2011-04-14 20:34:56] <Philippe> And mentor the new users at the same time. [2011-04-14 20:35:14] <Philippe> But we know that the tools you've got are... well, less than ideal. [2011-04-14 20:35:19] <Philippe> So we've got a new tool, and a new concept. [2011-04-14 20:35:26] <Peter-C> :D [2011-04-14 20:35:39] <Guide43> :-) [2011-04-14 20:35:40] <Peter-C> I like new! :D [2011-04-14 20:35:49] <Philippe> We'd like to try being more reactive. Rather than emailing 50 users and hoping one sticks around... let's see who edits and help them. [2011-04-14 20:35:53] <Philippe> Maybe that will help with retention. [2011-04-14 20:36:11] <Philippe> We're going to ask Guides to self-organize into teams. [2011-04-14 20:36:19] <Philippe> https://spreadsheets.google.com/a/wikimedia.org/ccc?key=0AvhjkTJIpW2zdERsNUI2Q0w2UTlxeDFteGF2SlM5Rmc&authkey=CKKswCY&hl=en#gid=0 [2011-04-14 20:36:26] <ReaperEternal> The only problem is that the good editors in my group aren't the ones who stayed around :( [2011-04-14 20:36:31] <ReaperEternal> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=First_Five-Year_Plan_%28Soviet_Union%29&diff=prev&oldid=421576102 [2011-04-14 20:36:43] <Philippe> Each team has a tracker link with all the edits by new users that are assigned to that group. [2011-04-14 20:36:45] <ReaperEternal> This user knew cite book with ISBNs on his first edit [2011-04-14 20:36:56] <MER-C> that isn't too hard [2011-04-14 20:37:16] <Philippe> If you look at the tracker link, you'll see that it's much better [2011-04-14 20:37:26] <Philippe> Now it's got usernames, and the edit links directly to the diff [2011-04-14 20:37:30] <MER-C> it's easy to read the source of TFA then learn to cite from there [2011-04-14 20:37:34] <Philippe> (Thanks, Jamesofur and Zackexley) [2011-04-14 20:37:37] <Jamesofur> and we're still improving it, if you things you want let us know! [2011-04-14 20:38:02] <Philippe> James.... the first tracker needs more users [2011-04-14 20:38:04] <Philippe> that's pitiful [2011-04-14 20:38:19] <Philippe> so does the second [2011-04-14 20:38:29] <Jamesofur> it had more users when I made it :( [2011-04-14 20:38:31] <Philippe> and the third :) [2011-04-14 20:38:33] <Jamesofur> it's bound by the hours [2011-04-14 20:38:49] <Philippe> So let's just add some more and give these guys something to do :) [2011-04-14 20:38:55] <MER-C> the only one who edited in the second is a VOA [2011-04-14 20:38:59] <Jamesofur> aye, I'll add in some people from today [2011-04-14 20:39:03] * Mono gave up on editing Wikipedia [2011-04-14 20:39:09] <Philippe> Mono, not now, please [2011-04-14 20:39:32] <Philippe> So we think that if you just look into the edits and check in on these folks... drop a welcome template on them if they haven't had one, for instance. [2011-04-14 20:39:35] <Philippe> that it will help/ [2011-04-14 20:39:42] <Mono> Just mentioning that you can drop me from your thing [2011-04-14 20:39:53] <Philippe> 'kay :) [2011-04-14 20:39:58] <Peter-C> How about we get 50 guys, put them in a room, give them a WMF salery and make them hunt down potential users for us :P [2011-04-14 20:40:09] <Philippe> Good luck finding the money for that :) [2011-04-14 20:40:23] * Peter-C gets Jamesofur's credit card [2011-04-14 20:40:24] <Philippe> I had to raise this year's budget. I'm not interested in salaries for 50 more :P [2011-04-14 20:40:26] * ReaperEternal is not interested in a job on top of college :-) [2011-04-14 20:40:55] <Peter-C> Wait, should we try to entice users to join projects? [2011-04-14 20:40:56] <Philippe> So.... all we are asking you to do is to have each team commit that someone will be checking and reporting on what they did every day [2011-04-14 20:41:03] * ReaperEternal would stop editing if paid--I only do it for fun. [2011-04-14 20:41:25] <Philippe> You'll notice that the very first spot for each team has a * by it. [2011-04-14 20:41:39] <Philippe> That person is the team clerk... that's the person who promises that every day the spreadsheet will be updated. :) [2011-04-14 20:41:44] <Philippe> not necessarily that they'll do it... [2011-04-14 20:41:48] <Philippe> but they'll make sure it gets done [2011-04-14 20:42:05] <Philippe> Then... just go through the tracker and, you know, do what we all wanted to do in the first place... help the new users. [2011-04-14 20:42:22] <Philippe> We're going to try to adjust the tracker so that there's a sort of constant stream of people to help. [2011-04-14 20:42:50] * ReaperEternal heads off for a little IRL [2011-04-14 20:42:56] =-= ReaperEternal is now known as Reaper[AFK] [2011-04-14 20:42:59] <Philippe> And here's the fun part.... we're going to watch the spreadsheet... and anyone making a truly awesome contribution that we see will get some prizes. [2011-04-14 20:43:10] <Peter-C> such as/ [2011-04-14 20:43:11] <Peter-C> ? [2011-04-14 20:43:15] <MER-C> ... [2011-04-14 20:43:15] <Philippe> I've got money for shirts, maybe a laptop bag or two, and some hoodies. [2011-04-14 20:43:23] <Reaper[AFK]> barnstaritis............. [2011-04-14 20:43:27] <Reaper[AFK]> =D [2011-04-14 20:43:42] <Philippe> Very cool logo merchandise that's specific to the Guide program. [2011-04-14 20:43:47] <Peter-C> :D [2011-04-14 20:43:48] <Philippe> Not stuff you'll find anywhere else :) [2011-04-14 20:43:50] <Peter-C> I WANT [2011-04-14 20:43:54] <Philippe> (me too_ [2011-04-14 20:43:59] <Jamesofur> me too! [2011-04-14 20:44:14] <Peter-C> Can I brand your dog and claim that it is one of the prizes :P [2011-04-14 20:44:15] <Philippe> Why should the ambassadors get all the fun? :)  I'm talking to Jay tomorrow about the custom logo stuff [2011-04-14 20:44:19] <Philippe> you may not. [2011-04-14 20:44:24] <Peter-C> :( [2011-04-14 20:44:43] <Philippe> The other thing I really like about this concept.... [2011-04-14 20:44:53] <Philippe> it's nearly real time. You can get almost instant feedback. [2011-04-14 20:44:59] <Philippe> It's like Recent Changes, but restricted to OUR people [2011-04-14 20:45:38] <Philippe> And.... just so we don't make the "Sure, they'll email 50 people! Maybe 500!" mistake again.. James, Zack, and I are all going to be on teams [2011-04-14 20:46:07] <Peter-C> This seems more like a nerd camp xD [2011-04-14 20:46:11] <Philippe> (i will warn the people on Zack's team... he's obsessive and he's competitive. He wants to win.) [2011-04-14 20:46:22] <Philippe> Peter-C: Hey, nerd camp sounds like fun to me :P [2011-04-14 20:46:37] <Jamesofur> ^ [2011-04-14 20:46:42] <Peter-C> ^ [2011-04-14 20:46:47] <Philippe> I wrote a little page describing how this works. [2011-04-14 20:46:53] <Philippe> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wiki_Guides/Real_time_tracking [2011-04-14 20:46:59] <Philippe> It's linked from a tab on the Wiki Guides page. [2011-04-14 20:47:13] <Peter-C> Can I be on team Jamesofur :D [2011-04-14 20:47:23] <Philippe> You can self-organize and be on any team you want. [2011-04-14 20:47:30] <Philippe> But I have cookies, and James is mean. [2011-04-14 20:48:05] <Jamesofur> This is a lie [2011-04-14 20:48:06] <Peter-C> I go where the cookies are! :D [2011-04-14 20:48:16] <Philippe> I tell troof. [2011-04-14 20:48:18] <Philippe> Anyway. [2011-04-14 20:48:19] <Jamesofur> I'll have cookies when I'm in SF! Buy the office [2011-04-14 20:48:40] <Philippe> Can we try this out and see what we think? And it's really important that as you're doing it... if you have ideas for how to make it easier... please please please tell us. [2011-04-14 20:48:50] <Philippe> (well, dont tell James.  He'll yell.  I'll give you a cookie.) [2011-04-14 20:49:09] <Peter-C> I think we need to expand the Wikipedia cookie budget [2011-04-14 20:49:13] <Peter-C> All in favor? [2011-04-14 20:49:15] <Philippe> Zye [2011-04-14 20:49:17] <Philippe> Aye too [2011-04-14 20:49:24] <Philippe> Oh wait, that means I have to raise the money. [2011-04-14 20:49:29] <Philippe> NO I DONT! IM NOT IN FUNDRAISING ANYMORE! [2011-04-14 20:49:37] <Philippe> Cookies for everyone :) [2011-04-14 20:49:38] <Peter-C> down boy! [2011-04-14 20:49:55] <Peter-C> So, we just randomly patrol edits and grade them? [2011-04-14 20:50:01] <Peter-C> Then put their name on a list [2011-04-14 20:50:02] <Philippe> no, not grading [2011-04-14 20:50:05] <Philippe> You're FIXING [2011-04-14 20:50:05] <Philippe> :) [2011-04-14 20:50:10] <Philippe> If they need help... help them. [2011-04-14 20:50:12] <Philippe> And then write them [2011-04-14 20:50:14] <Philippe> Welcome them [2011-04-14 20:50:19] <Philippe> Basically, be their new best friend. [2011-04-14 20:50:43] <Peter-C> "Hi, I'm a guy from the internet. Wanna be my best friend" will not go down well with most people [2011-04-14 20:50:45] <Philippe> The idea is to take these people who are trying to edit.... and tell them we've got their back. [2011-04-14 20:51:07] <Philippe> I wouldn't put it quite like that. That sounds a little too creepy... a little too... well, too much like Ironholds [2011-04-14 20:51:08] * Philippe runs [2011-04-14 20:51:44] * Jamesofur doesn't say anything [2011-04-14 20:52:05] |<-- howief has left freenode (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [2011-04-14 20:52:05] <Philippe> OK, I have to duck out, because I'm late for my next deal. But I'm going to leave Jamesofur behind to answer questions. Before I go though... [2011-04-14 20:52:06] <Philippe> rea [2011-04-14 20:52:10] <Philippe> really... thank you. [2011-04-14 20:52:19] <Philippe> The stuff you're doing is helping us to figure out how to do this. [2011-04-14 20:52:20] <Ironholds> Philippe: know that I will find you and hunt you down like the dog you are [2011-04-14 20:52:21] -->| howief (~howiefung@216.38.130.161) has joined #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 20:52:33] <Philippe> And how to help out the new users here, and make it easier for all of us. [2011-04-14 20:52:36] <Jamesofur> aye :) The first group has more users already the rest will very soon, please let us know if anything is confusing/ questions etc! [2011-04-14 20:52:47] <Peter-C> Run before Ironholds gets to you ;) [2011-04-14 20:52:49] <Philippe> Thanks, everyone.... i'm out [2011-04-14 20:52:50] <Jamesofur> Ironholds: watch out he'll like that [2011-04-14 20:52:51] |<-- Philippe has left freenode (Quit: Philippe) [2011-04-14 20:52:51] * Jamesofur runs [2011-04-14 20:53:07] * Peter-C raises his hands [2011-04-14 20:53:17] <Peter-C> When do we get the cookies? [2011-04-14 20:53:47] <Jamesofur> you only get cookies when you're good! Or when I can make them :) [2011-04-14 20:54:24] <MER-C> in the graph that shows the edits over time, you mentioned a trend where guided editors tend to stick around longer [2011-04-14 20:54:29] <MER-C> is that statistically significant? [2011-04-14 20:54:42] -->| DragonFire1024 (~DragonFir@Wikinews/DragonFire1024) has joined #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 20:54:59] <Jamesofur> Mer-C the sticking around longer is not no [2011-04-14 20:55:13] <Jamesofur> we think it will continue but we don't have the evidence to prove it yet [2011-04-14 20:55:35] <MER-C> what about the mainspace/userspace ratio? [2011-04-14 20:55:41] <Jamesofur> that's significant [2011-04-14 20:56:31] <MER-C> what confidence level? [2011-04-14 20:56:57] <Peter-C> Can we have yearly data taken instead of just data from 2004 and 2011? [2011-04-14 20:57:36] <Guide43> Is Team membership a must do? [2011-04-14 20:57:37] <Jamesofur> The main space median was .. something like 22 daily edits more in the guided group then the control group. The userspace difference was actually much more so [2011-04-14 20:58:04] <Jamesofur> MER-C: I'm not actually sure what level he used (it was one of our stats guys) Philippe is going to ask and I'll let you know [2011-04-14 20:58:12] <MER-C> thanks [2011-04-14 20:58:40] <Jamesofur> Guide43: Well, it's always up to you for what you do/don't want to do. Totally no prejudices to that but it was the route we wanted to at least try [2011-04-14 20:58:59] <Jamesofur> the idea is that with a group of people looking at it (not necessarily together) that means not everyone has to do it every day. [2011-04-14 20:59:15] <Jamesofur> If you aren't able to do much a couple days that's fine [2011-04-14 21:01:17] <Peter-C> Who wrote "I am PeterC"? [2011-04-14 21:02:04] * Peter-C joins team Philippe per cookies [2011-04-14 21:02:18] <Jamesofur> he's bribing you with cookies that don't exist! [2011-04-14 21:02:23] <MER-C> and changed the spreadsheet background to that ghastly orange? [2011-04-14 21:02:43] <Jamesofur> LOL where? I'm not seeing ugly orange? [2011-04-14 21:02:48] <Jamesofur> which spreadsheet is it on? [2011-04-14 21:03:33] <Guide43> *Guide43 joins james team [2011-04-14 21:03:38] <MER-C> it was orange half an hour ago [2011-04-14 21:04:17] <Peter-C> Let's send out a mass email that says "Edit Wikipedia and get babes" [2011-04-14 21:04:36] <Jamesofur> Guide43: The GOOD team! [2011-04-14 21:04:54] <MER-C> [2011-04-14 21:05:04] <Jamesofur> He does have bad taste in color, it's proven [2011-04-14 21:05:05] <Guide43> word!! [2011-04-14 21:05:06] |<-- DragonFire1024 has left freenode (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756]) [2011-04-14 21:05:30] <Jamesofur> I've updated the links by the way so that you actually have people who have edited recently... [2011-04-14 21:05:55] <Jamesofur> I also just updated the tracker so that it REALLY shows the past 48 hours and not the past 24 hours because I can't apparently type inequalities right [2011-04-14 21:06:14] <Jamesofur> do you guys have ideas on tools or Tracker features you want? [2011-04-14 21:06:27] <Jamesofur> To make it easier [2011-04-14 21:06:34] <Jamesofur> I'm thinking of adding user talk page links tonight [2011-04-14 21:06:44] <Guide43> A Users Manual would help [2011-04-14 21:07:03] <Jamesofur> yeah, I tried to put a quick and dirty notes on top but need to make it easier [2011-04-14 21:07:07] <Jamesofur> what's the most confusing parts? [2011-04-14 21:07:52] <Peter-C> *part [2011-04-14 21:08:55] <Jamesofur> no I meant parts :P [2011-04-14 21:09:00] <Jamesofur> I'm sure there are more then one ;) [2011-04-14 21:09:08] <Jamesofur> though I should have said What ARE the most confusing parts [2011-04-14 21:10:29] |<-- enhydra has left freenode (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [2011-04-14 21:11:12] |<-- howief has left freenode (Quit: howief) [2011-04-14 21:11:56] -->| enhydra (~kalan@wikimedia/Kalan) has joined #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 21:12:15] -->| howief (~howiefung@216.38.130.161) has joined #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 21:13:37] =-= Reaper[AFK] is now known as ReaperEternal [2011-04-14 21:13:41] <ReaperEternal> back [2011-04-14 21:13:45] <Jamesofur> welcome back :) [2011-04-14 21:14:14] <Jamesofur> Did you have any other comments from earlier ReaperEternal ? [2011-04-14 21:14:22] <ReaperEternal> Not really [2011-04-14 21:14:31] <ReaperEternal> I'm just wondering: [2011-04-14 21:14:50] <ReaperEternal> Would it be possible to filter for users who are editing sporadically, with like 10 edits? [2011-04-14 21:14:55] <ReaperEternal> and pick them up? [2011-04-14 21:15:09] <ReaperEternal> They are the people most likely to continue editing [2011-04-14 21:15:17] <Jamesofur> it's possible. I'm not sure exactly how but I'm sure if we came up with definitions to search for we could [2011-04-14 21:16:29] <Jamesofur> That's another interesting idea though. People who have stayed around but never really got going [2011-04-14 21:16:51] <ReaperEternal> I'm just thinking from personal experience here. [2011-04-14 21:17:08] <ReaperEternal> My first introduction to Wikipedia was 9/2009, when I registered. [2011-04-14 21:17:09] <Jamesofur> Yeah, I started off like that for years before I got going [2011-04-14 21:17:25] <ReaperEternal> I then went around looking for things to do, but I couldn't find any [2011-04-14 21:17:26] |<-- interior has left freenode (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [2011-04-14 21:17:44] <Jamesofur> it's actually one of the bigger reasons people don't edit. They couldn't think of something to do [2011-04-14 21:18:09] <ReaperEternal> So I ended up leaving until 9/2010, when I saw a vandalized article. [2011-04-14 21:18:32] <ReaperEternal> I went looking up on how to revert, and saw things like CVU [2011-04-14 21:18:36] <--| Ironholds has left #wikimedia-strategy [2011-04-14 21:18:57] <ReaperEternal> So I started editing with Twinkle and watching Special:RecentChanges [2011-04-14 21:19:08] <MER-C> maybe we should start leaving links to Category:Wikipedia backlog in welcomes [2011-04-14 21:19:20] <Jamesofur> That isn't a bad idea at all [2011-04-14 21:19:56] <ReaperEternal> That was what I was getting at :) [2011-04-14 21:20:04] <ReaperEternal> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&dir=prev&limit=500&target=Reaper+Eternal <-- my first 500 edits [2011-04-14 21:20:05] <Jamesofur> I gotta head off for now actually sorry, computer needs to get used and I need some dinner but it's a great idea! [2011-04-14 21:20:31] <Jamesofur> Drop it on the talk page perhaps? I'll send you a chart I found earlier that was very interesting too [2011-04-14 21:20:34] [INFO] Disconnecting from IRC. Click close again to exit now. [2011-04-14 21:20:34] [QUIT] Disconnected from irc://freenode/ (irc://chat.freenode.net/). Reconnect][Reconnect to freenode][reconnect