Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Wikicology/Workshop

Question for Wikicology

 * Note: this was asked on evidence talk, hatted by a clerk, then continued on SarahSV's talk (down to Ca2james 20:53, 26 April) and now here.

Hi, thank you for submitting evidence about how you used to create articles. I was curious about that, because I noticed that even long articles were created in one edit, and it's hard to do that when there are lots of references. For example, see the first revision of Nitrogen dioxide poisoning.

Can you explain a bit more about how you did that (it sounds very difficult), and why you did it? You wrote something about data plans being expensive in Nigeria. I'd be interested to hear more about that, and whether editing with a phone is free. SarahSV (talk) 00:31, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Sarah,


 * I trust you're fine. You asked a question here. I am here to answer your question but I'm willing to reply here or here. I used my phone to create the article. This is how I did it; I go to messages, then draft a rough version with citations. From the rough version, I drafted the final version which I planned to submit before I submitted the problematic version. I don't find it easy writing directly on main space or sandbox when using phone.


 * Internet data costs a lot of money here. Computers consume more data than mobile phones. I can save up to 20 USD if I only edit with my phone and not my computer. I pay for both phone data and computer data in different bills. Warm regards. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 15:26, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Why would it cost $20 to make and an edit to Wikipedia? Isn't this a serious issue for Wikimedia Foundation? Peter Damian (talk) 19:45, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * But what I don't understand is today you made one single edit to the evidence page, which you claim above would cost $20, then you made 9 minor edits. So total cost $200. I will reimburse you if you email me. Peter Damian (talk) 19:49, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, no, let me reimburse the $200 because those edits would not have been made today if I hadn't brought attention to those problems in evidence I had hoped to give. Ca2james (talk) 20:53, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia Zero, I'm guessing, is relevant here. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 22:33, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Pinging to let you know I've moved the discussion. SarahSV (talk) 22:35, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I read the 20 USD thing to mean that it costs that much to activate a computer data plan for a month, but if you don't use it that month you don't get charged. My own phone data plan works something like that.  I pay $5 a day on the days that I use it, and zero on the days when I don't use it.  Since I rarely use it, that works out better for me than a $40-ish monthly plan.  50.0.121.79 (talk) 16:34, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Editing
, I often make large changes, sometimes whole articles, in one edit. To do that, I have multiple windows and tabs open: one with the draft, others with sources, others with bits of citation data (PMID, doi, bylines, etc). It's fiddly work. I can't imagine how this could be done on a phone (especially on a Blackberry) for a long article. When you're editing the draft, where are you retaining the citation data, for example? SarahSV (talk) 22:40, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * , This is how I create my articles;

This is how I create my articles:

I find an interesting and notable topics,for example "Kayode Soremekun". I go to a messages where I draft email. Then, go to my phone browser, search for the title ( Kayode soremekun in this case). If he was described as a professor of international relation and the source said he was appointed as a vice chancellor, then I will return to the messages where I am writing my draft and I will write;

Kayode Soremekun is a Nigerian professor of International relation and vice chancellor of Federal University Oye Ekiti. . Prior to his appointment as the substantive vice chancellor of Federal University Oye Ekiti, he held the department of international relations at Obafemi Awolowo University.

(Then, go back to my browser to see if anything is said about is education. If nothing is said about that, then I will open another tab, to search for information about his education. If I found something like Kayode Soremekun B.sc (UniLag) M.sc (OAU) Ph.D (OAU) in a reliable source(s)). Then I will start a section as

==Education==

Kayode obtained a bachelor's degree in ... From University of Lagos, Master's degree in...from Obafemi Awolowo University and Ph.D in...from Obafemi Awolowo University.

==References==

I will cite the sources that contain the information above.

I will continue to expand it and later click on create tab on Wikipedia (note that it would be redlink before creation). After clicking on create page, then I will go to the messages where I have the draft, copy the whole draft to the page, preview and I will save it.

That is how i create my articles. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikicology (talk • contribs)


 * Thanks for the reply, . I'm still puzzled about the process. For example, you posted the first version of $2 billion arms deal in one edit on 13 December 2015 – 2756 words and 54 refs with citation templates. All the access dates are 13 December 2015. To create this on a phone, you would be constantly moving back and forth between the window with the draft, and the windows/tabs with the sources, Google and whatever else you're using. But with only one tiny screen, you would be able to view only one window at a time. It would be very difficult to do that. SarahSV (talk) 04:47, 30 April 2016 (UTC)


 * , any light you can shed on this would be helpful – for example, how long it took you to write it, or anything else that explains the process. SarahSV (talk) 18:37, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Cost
Hi I'm sure you know Airtel Nigeria allows ALL Nigerians to browse Wikipedia for FREE. in fact I'm on the Airtel network and I'm currently browsing Wikipedia, absolutely free.

Those who are willing to reimburse Wikicology should PLEASE consider contacting Airtel Nigeria to get proof. You can find their contact numbers or emails by doing a search on their website. If data is the problem, I suggest Wikicology switches to Airtel as I'm not sure if MTN or Globacom offer the free Wikipedia plan. Thanks. I'm trying not to allow money change hands, as this is a very sensitive matter. Whatever Information is received from him needs to be cross checked. Please! Claudia 20201 (talk) 23:05, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * , Wikicology is saying that he has to pay to edit Wikipedia. Assuming Airtel allows free browsing, does it make a difference if one tries to edit? SarahSV (talk) 23:12, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Dear Sarah SarahSV thanks for asking. No, it doesn't make a difference. All of Wikipedia is free, this means assuming I try to create an article or edit an article or play media or visit "Commons" etcetera, it'd still be free, Airtel only begins charging from my data plan when I click an external link that'd take me off the Wikipedia website. Airtel plans are also cheap, for instance I can get 1GB for only N1000 (Nigerian Naira) which is N199 exchange rate or currently 456/315 as exchange rate fluctuates a lot. All I've said above can be verified on the Airtel Nigeria website and I can gladly offer the codes and amount for each subscription plan. Between, there are data subscription plans for 30 days. So it depends on which is subscribed for. But bottomline is Wikipedia is always free on the Airtel network. Thank you once again. Claudia 20201 (talk) 23:21, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Just wanted to add (relating to what I've said above) if data costs $20, I'd be curious to know what network he's on and the Naira equivalent and the duration of his plan. Last I checked, $1 = N315 in Nigeria so a breakdown: 20 x 315 = N6,300. Again, data costs as High as that (depending on the plan), reason why I asked him to switch to Airtel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Claudia 20201 (talk • contribs) 23:35, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * , I don't read that as "it costs me US$20 to make one edit". More, "money can be saved by editing via mobile, rather than computers".--kelapstick(bainuu) 00:36, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the way I understood it is that Wikicology uses mobile to edit Wikipedia because workstation data costs money. There's no doubt in my mind that Wikicology is aware of Wikipedia Zero. I would ask,, can you comment on what internet connection costs are in Nigeria for computers? Or is Wikicology perhaps meaning that he'd have to use an internet café to edit from a computer? —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 00:52, 27 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks (I'm really big on thank yous so I say it often) They're the same as mobile plans Mendaliv. In Nigeria, there are the normal plans which can be used across all devices, then there's the Blackberry plan and the Android plan. Contrary to what Wikicology has said, accessing the internet via a computer is not expensive and doesn't consume much data. What consumes a lot of data is the Android plan. Windows phones and devices are very data-friendly (all plans listed above are subscriptions and not pay-as-you-go) So, the summary is, if I purchase 1GB for N1000, I can use that on my computer (via a modem or connecting to my phone's WiFi) and phone, there's no restriction. But my data consumption would depend entirely on the kinds of websites I visit or if I download a lot of stuff off the internet or the nature of my device and if it's an Android powered phone, the data will be used up faster than when I use a laptop because of the various apps that're active in the background. Claudia 20201 (talk) 01:15, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your thorough answer! That explains a lot. Wikicology's $20 to make an edit figure is really quite confusing, then. Even N20 would certainly get you more than one edit at the data cost figures you're suggesting (assuming 1GB for N1000, N20 = 20MB). And given most browsers use some form of HTTP compression now, even taking previews into account, it seems unlikely that posting something could take that much data. Plus WP:RSS ought to let someone easily monitor a page in a low-bandwidth manner. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 01:26, 27 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Exactly, we're on the same page. And 20MB here is actually for N100, that is $0.31 going by the current exchange rate of 315 (The 1000 plan is $3.17) Thanks for the meaningful input. Claudia 20201 (talk) 02:02, 27 April 2016 (UTC)


 * , thank you for your thorough answers; I hope it's all right if I ask one more. I've noticed that Wikicology uses a BlackBerry, at least when posting to mailing lists. Does the BlackBerry plan differ from the ones you've described? Do you happen to know whether the BlackBerry data costs are more or less than you've described? Thanks again. Ca2james (talk) 02:11, 27 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you Ca2james, Blackberry plans are the cheapest of all plans, compared to Android which starts at N1000 and the normal plan which starts at N100. I use Airtel and MTN as I have a DUAL-SIM phone, so I'll give you the costs so you can see for yourself.

Airtel Blackberry Plans (To access this on a phone, you dial *141# > Option 4 [Buy Data] > #2

1) BB Unlimited - N1,500/$4.76 (3GB) 2) BB Unlimited (2nd option) - N525/$1.66 (200MB) 3) BB Unlimited (3rd option) - N100/$0.31 (40MB) 4) BB Complete - N1000/$3.17 (3GB)

But on normal plans, I'd have to pay twice, even thrice more to get a 3GB plan. Below is a summary of Blackberry plans for MTN:

To access the MTN menu on a phone, you dial *131# > Option 6

1) BIS monthly at N1500 /$4.76 2) BIS weekly at N599 /$1.90 3) BIS daily at N120 /$0.38 4) BBC monthly at N1000 /$3.17 5) BBC weekly at N499 /$1.58 6) BBC daily at N100 /$0.31

I can readily take Screenshots if required. Thanks again. Claudia 20201 (talk) 02:37, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

For comparison:

Android Plans 1) Android Plan N3500 - 4.5GB (30 days)

2) Android Plan N2000 - 2GB (30 days)

3)Android Plan N1000 - 1GB (30 days)

4) Android Easy - N500 (14 days)

Normal Plans

1) N5000 12GB (30 days) 2) N8000 24GB (30 days) 3) 10,000 10GB (30 days) 4) 15,000 30GB (60 days) 5) N36,000 50GB (180 days)

The above are on the Airtel network. Claudia 20201 (talk) 02:50, 27 April 2016 (UTC)


 * To return to the issue Wikicology raised, he said: "Internet data costs a lot of money here. Computers consume more data than mobile phones. I can save up to 20 USD if I only edit with my phone and not my computer. I pay for both phone data and computer data in different bills."


 * So he's not saying that he pays $20 to edit Wikipedia, but that he pays less to access the Internet with his phone than with his computer. He can access Wikipedia for free, according to Claudia (including to edit it), but he still has to access sources, and that costs less on his phone than on his computer, if I've understood him correctly. (I don't think that affects the issue of creating articles in one edit.) SarahSV (talk) 02:53, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Corruption of references via mobile
WC also seems to say that the referencing problem was caused by the fact he was using mobile, which mixes up the references. Is this something we should be raising with the Wikipedia Zero project? Peter Damian (talk) 18:13, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I suspect this might explain how some of the corrupting of references has happened. EdChem (talk) 13:23, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Weirdly placed threaded discussion
Would you—or someone else involved in the procedure of this case—mind taking a look at the discussion developing on the workshop page right now? It's hiding near the bottom, currently in "Section 4.4.6", going by the table of contents numbering (I don't know how to unambiguously link to a section with an ambiguous title). I feel pretty confidently that discussion is taking place in the wrong area, but am not about to move it myself—particularly since I don't know what the right destination is. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 14:12, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I have moved it and titled it. I am going to leave the formatting as is for now as It would be some mess to untangle but I will seek clarification from the arbs if they want this tidying. Amortias (T)(C) 18:44, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Continued lying
As I have said, the most disturbing aspect of this case is the repeated lying (often lying about the lying). Some of this was the sockpuppet days, but much of it is more recent, such as the claim on 12:53, 27 March 2016 that he first learned about the sockpuppetry policy at the end of May 2014, upon which a few days later, he made a fresh start with the Wikicology account. Yet his first account was opened 10 months earlier in August 2013, during which there were multiple sock investigations and multiple warnings,. In his evidence he says that 'during my request for admin when my nominator called me a university lecturer, I knew he was mistaken but I didn't refute the claim because I was afraid it might result in drama'. So why did he say he was a university lecturer? And why did he confirm it at his RfA saying '"I'm not a lexicologist or a lexicographer but a Biochemist and a university lecturer". He also now says, in a bizarre excuse, that the image captioned "Wikicology in his office at Adekunle Ajasin University, Nigeria" was an In-joke involving me and my friend in our lecturers office … I didn't realize the danger. I didn't read any meaning to it and I didn't see it beyond a joke".

Again, he says in his evidence, that the referencing errors were because he was using a mobile with different versions of a single article. This does not explain how he was referencing completely unrelated sources. As someone else spotted, he simply googles a subject, then uses whatever turns up as a reference, without regard to relevance. This has nothing to do with using a mobile.

In addition, EdChem says "Wikicology also made the mistake of thinking carbon(I) oxide was CO when it would actually be C2O and doesn't exist." Clear what the mistake was? Yet replies 'I have now learned that English Wikipedia doesn't use chemical names with Roman numerals in parentheses though this is how I learned to write chemical names.'  Do you see what he is doing here? Peter Damian (talk) 18:46, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Peter Damian, I have made a small edit to the above to correct my quote. I hope you don't mind, but I feel uncomfortable with a quote of my criticising the accuracy of another editor's chemistry-related edits being chemically flawed.  It's just a formatting change and it was correct in my original posts.  EdChem (talk) 23:32, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia zero
I have explained what I know about Wikipedia Zero the the cost of my internet here Thank you. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 12:01, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Good, bad or a bit of both?
Well of course we all fall into the third category - but I don't think the Arbitrator's job is being made easier by picking on "I can save up to 20 USD if I only edit with my phone and not my computer." and interpreting this to mean $20 per edit, and then claiming Wikicology is lying.

It may be $20 per month, or even per quarter.

I was taking little notice of this case, but I may find time to look into it a little, as the above incident has set alarm bells off.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 21:03, 28 April 2016 (UTC).

Small note
I just noticed this comment by Kelapstick on the Workshop page: (", if the purpose of your subsection below is to illustrate that Wikicology has created problematic articles in the last six months, it has been made. Thank you for your, ahem, exhaustive list."). For some reason I didn't get a ping for it, even though he signed with four tildes -- are some pings not working lately? Anyway, there was no convenient place to reply to this, due to the templates and extensive content, so I'm leaving my note here. While I understand my list may seem quite excessive, my purpose is to demonstrate that  every article Wikicology has created in the past six months is problematic. (Edited to add: Plus an added benefit is that if any of these articles is retained, my notes identify the precise factual/citation problems with each, and also provide live links for dead links that aren't even on Wayback.) If an arb wants to collapse the section at any time, feel free to do so. Softlavender (talk) 04:35, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm, not sure why the ping didn't work, but as the workshop phase is over, it's moot anyway. Thank you for your extensive research into the matter. --kelapstick(bainuu) 20:56, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually the workshop phase does not end until 23:59 2 May UTC time. Softlavender (talk) 07:27, 2 May 2016 (UTC) Ping Kelapstick because that didn't work. Softlavender (talk) 07:28, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The second ping didn't work either, but yes you are correct. --kelapstick(bainuu) 09:37, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Closed
Now that it is 3 May in all timezones, can a clerk please mark the workshop as closed and advise as to the correct venue for any ongoing discussion? BethNaught (talk) 15:25, 3 May 2016 (UTC)